CAVOK

[brucekabuce]

Hey follow pilots,

Was wondering what you though of the old saying CAVOK? I believe that is put dated and should be changes, for example you are flying from ymmb-yltv and the forecast for yltv is CAVOK you up at your cruising level of 6500ft and the cloud is broken at 6000ft above the field so the term CAVOK means nothing to you because you are above it!!!.

I reckon they should employ a new system, Keep the old CAVOK (cloud clear below 5000ft viz greater then 10k's) but also have maybe CAVCAVOK which means cloud clear below 10000ft and viz greater then 10k's!!!

What you reckon?
cheers

[Taggert]

Like you said, CAVOK relates to aerodrome. :hmm:

[Noted & Disregarded]

Ok , what ever you think is best.

[brucekabuce]

Yes it relates to the aerodrome but it only covers cloud up to 5000ft which i think is pointless it should cover it up to 10000ft hence CAVCAVOK like i said in the example you are crusing above 5000ft then cavok means nothing!!!!

[Dubya]

I knew I shouldn't have opened this post. Another 2 minutes of my life I won't get back.

CAVOK means... Cieling And Visibility OK... so if we said CAVCAVOK, that would be stuttering, wouldn't it.......

yeah, and while we're at it. ket's change the laws of physics and suggest that the Lift formula is outdated, and we should put something nice and warm and fuzzy in it........ for goodness sake guys, get a life

[Mr.Buzzy]

My cat's breath smells like poo.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[UnderneathTheRadar]

So if both MB and LTV are CAVCOCK but there is cloud at 5100 all the way enroute how are you going to navigate and keep it legal? If you're IFR then what does a bit of cloud above 5000 matter anyway and finally, if you are CAVCOCKED and cruising at 6500 you would want to be starting your descent well beyond the CAVOK range of 5nm(?) so knowing about CAVCOCK is of what benfit again?

UTR

[RENURPP]

JUST GET AN AREA FORECASTE

[troppo]

buzzy, that ain't your cat's mouth you are sniffing...i can loan you some velcro gloves and masking tape if you want :}
happy easter

[EngineOut]

As others have said, a TAF is for the aerodrome, 5nm and up to 5000'. It has absolutely nothing to do with enroute weather, nor is it relevant to making an approach at an aerodrome to be having cloud more than 5000' AGL. If you're buzzing around VFR and get stuck on top at more than 5000', then you should have read the AREA forecast better!

[Tinstaafl]

The meaning is in the acronym. Ceiling & Vis near the aerodrome is OK. Not briliant. Not perfect. Certainly not wonderful. Merely 'OK' within 5km of the airstrip.

NB: In some parts of the world there was also CAVU: Ceiling &Vis Unlimited.

[brucekabuce]

Tell me when the forcast for the area is correct? dubya u get a life i never said get rid of cavok just update it!!! what r u a captain of a cessna 150 :)

[Mr.Buzzy]

There is no such thing as a stupid question........ Just stupid people.

bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbzbbbbbzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[EngineOut]

Tell me when the forcast for the area is correct?

about as often as the TAF... :hmm:

[Waka Rider]

Buzzy bro I've stuck pigs with more brains than you ow. Why dont you just p:mad: ss off and go milk your cat and leave the keyboard alone.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Sure thing bro. Hey bro, can I birrow ya vilcro glives?

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z

[Zhaadum]

Mr Buzzy,

Your cat comment had me in stitches mate. :ok:

I don't want to ask why you are smelling your cats breath....

My dog eats dog food, not poo....?? :eek:

[Feather #3]

Err...Bruce,

Get back to us when you've prepared the document you wish CASA to put to ICAO to forward your plan.

Oh, and don't forget that it takes about 5 years to get anything through ICAO.

Good luck!:uhoh:

G'day ;)

[Starts with P]

Well, if you want to take CAVOK up to A100, why not A200? You can be VFR up there. :} :\

[Howard Hughes]

I personally don't think there is a need for TAF's to cover the weather any higher than 5000 feet, that's what ARFOR's are for!!

More importantly, I want to know why you are cruising YMMB-YLTV at 6500?;)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

6500 wrong. 5500 or 7500 correct for MB/LTV. Sector length 65nm, why chew up 15 minutes and 20nm to get to 7500 and then spend another 10 minutes and 20nm descending to circuit height at LTV. Why fly above BKN060 when it is perfectly safe AND quicker to cruise under the deck and clear of high ground to the north of track.

Flying above more than BKN carries a warning that should be heeded. You must be able to complete your entire trip in VFR conditions. Positive fix at least every 30 minutes and must be able to descend to your destination whilst maintaining VFR (Fly above BKN060 on this sector and you MUST take into consideration Mt Baw Baw at 5160 to give you a LSALT of 6000). Your example has ARFOR BKN060 and TAF YLTV as CAVOK. So, it would suggest that you would be able to find a hole to descend through near(Are you 100% sure you are where you are with regard to high ground to north of track?) or OVER your destination. Which begs the question, why bother over such a small sector? I am only PPL but no way known would I fly that sector above BKN060.Maybe you need to use a different sector as an example.

TAF and ARFOR work for me. The definitions mean exactly what they intend.

[bushy]

The taf's and arfors are fine, except they often use IFR checkpoints that VFR pilots would not be familiar with, to define areas.
These checkpoints do not appear on wac charts (remember them?)
If we are going to use fictiotious names, lets print them on VFR charts.
Otherwise stick to names that already appear on VFR charts.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

The taf's and arfors are fine, except they often use IFR checkpoints that VFR pilots would not be familiar with, to define areas.
These checkpoints do not appear on wac charts (remember them?)
If we are going to use fictiotious names, lets print them on VFR charts.
Otherwise stick to names that already appear on VFR charts.

That's what a PCA is for - a necessary(mandatory?) VFR document......

UTR

[THE CONTRACTOR]

I can see for miles and miles, I can see for miles and miles!

[bushy]

Sure it is. But why is it necessary to use fiction????, and
complicate the process un necessarily.
If you really want to reduce the number of weather related accidents, one of the things you could do is to make weather information simpler, and more readily available, so that our 20,000 or so VFR aircraft pilots will use it.
If it is simple it works better.

But, it appears that our aviation authorities do not want GA to flourish. And many pilots have little respect for our Authorities.

Sad.
And wrong.

[Andy_RR]

At risk of confusing my JAR and Aus training, why would CAVOK be in a TAF? Surely it would only be part of a METAR, or issued on ATIS? - ie: a statement of current weather conditions, not a forecast?

A (still GFPT)

[OZBUSDRIVER]

BARCALDINE (YBAR)
TAF YBAR 131819Z 2008 10008KT CAVOK
T 20 24 28 29 Q 1015 1017 1016 1014

[Andy_RR]

BARCALDINE (YBAR)
TAF YBAR 131819Z 2008 10008KT CAVOK
T 20 24 28 29 Q 1015 1017 1016 1014

(CAV)OK! :)

[Howard Hughes]

Another example...

TTF METAR YSSY 140700Z 05011KT CAVOK 24/14 Q1015
RMK RF00.0/000.0
NOSIG

Cheers, HH.:ok:

[Tinstaafl]

Why shouldn't CAVOK be on a forecast? It's merely shorthand for a defined set of conditions ie vis>10km, cloud base > 5000' etc etc

Just as meaningful in a forecast as a report.

[karrank]

Ceiling And Visibility OK. Works for me.

CACAVOK? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

…. Spleen failure immediately after the Cat comment …… pissa http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1166.gif .. very witty Buzzy, very witty!http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/505.gif

[brucekabuce]

We should employ what Tinstaafl said

"NB: In some parts of the world there was also CAVU: Ceiling &Vis Unlimited."

problem solved!!!

[Atlas Shrugged]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/waffen/violent-smiley-100.gif Read your bloody AIP's. It's CAVOK. Move on....

[datafox]

In the U.S. they don't use CAVOK because it isn't meaningful enough for the large amount of VFR aircraft that exists there.

Most stations report cloud below 12,000 ft and visibility up to 10 SM (16 KM), some larger airports report cloud at all levels.

[paulthornton]

CAVOK. An endangered term when flying in the UK...

[disco_air]

Can't Anyone Visualise Ordinary Konditions? :E

...Disco