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Pass-A-Frozo
12th Apr 2006, 07:21
O.k. The link doesn't work anymore, but I found this on another flying website..
Not exactly the most reliable source of information.. but here goes.. :rolleyes:


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Three congressman have confirmed they were aboard a C-130 flight to Kuwait from Iraq in January when they were attacked by a sophisticated Russian SA-18 shoulder-fired missile that required the U.S. plane to employ high-technology countermeasures to avoid being hit.

They were lucky – the leased commercial aircraft transporting troops aren't equipped to with those sophisticated countermeasures.

Reps. Jeb Bradley, R-N.H., John Spratt, D-S.C., and Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, confirmed the incident to The San Francisco Chronicle. They were part of a six-member delegation of the House Armed Services Committee, led by Rob Simmons, R-Conn.

Missile attacks on Air Force transports flying in and through the Iraq theater are regular occurrences, but the introduction of the SA-18 – the top Russian "man-portable air defense systems," or MANPADS – is seen as significantly increasing the danger for aircraft.

"The SA-18 is significantly harder to defend against," said Daniel Goure, of the Lexington Institute, a military affairs think tank. "The SA-18 has increased range, increased altitude, and is much better able to home in on a vital piece of aircraft equipment."

Air Force aircraft have been equipped with laser systems that deflect and incoming missile's aim, but no such systems have yet been installed on U.S. commercial airliners, including those that are part of the Civil Reserve Air Fleet, civilian aircraft under contract to ferry troops to and from the various staging bases in the Middle East.

"The Civil Reserve Air Fleet ... (is) a prime target for terrorists or enemies with MANPADS," Rep. Steve Israel, D-N.Y., said. "The impact of the loss of just one such aircraft would be incalculable. ... It is past time to extend this protection to the CRAF fleet and, ultimately, to the entire commercial air fleet."

In 2002, a failed attempt was made to shoot down an Israeli airliner taking off from Mombasa, Kenya. The U.S. Defense Department documents 43 civilian aircraft hit by MANPADS worldwide. Thirty of those hit were destroyed, resulting in 900 passenger and crew deaths.

Two companies have developed systems that could be used on commercial airliners at an installed cost of less than a million dollars per plane.

The Department of Homeland Security is not expected to conclude its study, mandated in 2003, into the best ways to adapt the military's laser-based infrared countermeasures systems to protect commercial airliners for another 18 months.

FormerFlake
12th Apr 2006, 08:52
I can not see the US Government officially anouncing SA18 in theatre.

Pass-A-Frozo
12th Apr 2006, 10:40
Agree.. it is a rumour network though :}

Also, it's not as if someone is going to provide classified reporting info on the threat. Just after peoples thoughts. Rather serious implication though.

PTT
12th Apr 2006, 10:49
Must have come pretty close for them to be able to tell it was a SA-18... :eek: :hmm:

Pass-A-Frozo
12th Apr 2006, 11:00
I was wondering how a couple of congressmen identified it was an SA-18

:rolleyes:

FormerFlake
12th Apr 2006, 11:48
I was wondering how a couple of congressmen identified it was an SA-18

:rolleyes:

They are just trying to justify their brown trouser:)

Melchett01
12th Apr 2006, 11:55
They must be wrong. They're still alive aren't they? Good bar story for them though ..... if only they can get the hand gestures correct!

nigegilb
12th Apr 2006, 13:33
If this is true the UK Govt had better review its evidence to the Defence Committe pretty damn quick.

rafloo
12th Apr 2006, 14:38
yeah, agreed. They must have been mistaken. An SA18 "missing" a C-130 ??? but going close enough so that the passengers could clearly see and recognise it as it whizzed past the windows at Mach speedywhizz ? I thought the SA-18 was designed to attack Fast Jets? It shouldn't miss a C-130...

OFBSLF
12th Apr 2006, 16:53
WorldNetDaily is not exactly an unimpeachable source. If they printed that the sky was blue, I'd look up before believing them.

PTC REMF
12th Apr 2006, 17:10
yeah, agreed. They must have been mistaken. An SA18 "missing" a C-130 ??? but going close enough so that the passengers could clearly see and recognise it as it whizzed past the windows at Mach speedywhizz ? I thought the SA-18 was designed to attack Fast Jets? It shouldn't miss a C-130...


Have a chat with your Sqn EWO, he'll be able to give you the up to date gen on the SA-18.

k1rb5
12th Apr 2006, 18:30
Don't suppose these congressmen could be in any way connected to the companies that are trying to sell the countermeasure systems to the civvies could they?? Just a wild stab in the dark :rolleyes:

Vage Rot
12th Apr 2006, 21:01
Must have come pretty close for them to be able to tell it was a SA-18... :eek: :hmm:

Or too high to be anything else?!!!

Sunfish
13th Apr 2006, 07:00
I wouldn't believe Worldnet Daily. They unquestioningly pass on anything that bolsters the Bush Administration. Look for the next article that says the SA18 was smuggled in from Iran.

rafloo
13th Apr 2006, 07:01
IIRC the SA-18 has an maximum height of about 11,000 feet

Hoots
13th Apr 2006, 09:16
rafloo, try doubling that and adding a bit then you might be a bit closer, way off the mark dude.

rafloo
13th Apr 2006, 09:22
That would only be if you were firing it straight up ....which is pretty daft really. The Max effective range of the SA - 18 . (9K38 Igla) is about 17,000' . With a time of flight of about 9 seconds to reach that, these congressmen must be pretty sharp to not only spot it, but also Identify it as an SA-18.

FormerFlake
13th Apr 2006, 12:29
That would only be if you were firing it straight up ....which is pretty daft really. The Max effective range of the SA - 18 . (9K38 Igla) is about 17,000' . With a time of flight of about 9 seconds to reach that, these congressmen must be pretty sharp to not only spot it, but also Identify it as an SA-18.

17 000 ft from what? Are you just quoting Jaynes or an episode of Spooks/CSI?

rafloo
13th Apr 2006, 12:54
Ja(y)nes.....Good god now...who would trust that rag?


Try using wikipedia

The Rocket
13th Apr 2006, 16:38
Ah yes.

Wikipedia. That trusted, definitive font of all knowledge.:confused:

The online encyclopedia compiled by ordinary members of the public.


You don't half spout some ill researched cr4p rafloo. And cutting and pasting Wikipedia articles does you no favours at all.

Hoots
14th Apr 2006, 19:44
Rafloo,

Most unofficial sources on the internet quote 11500 ft, i reckon that will be when the motor burns out, obviously not stopping there. Without getting into official sources and research i suggest that if like many others you have a vested interest in these matters then go chat to the people with the latest gen at AWC or look it up in official docs also bearing in mind the characteristics of the tgt.