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Whatthef?
11th Apr 2006, 07:57
I work for a large business jet operation and we regularly position crews in uniform by airline. Last week at EGLL (LHR) after check in I had my cabin sized trolley bag taken off me as I was carrying two pieces of hand baggage on an economy class ticket.
Well to cut a long story short the airline lost it and as I write 7 days later am still waiting its return.
I believe the problem has been caused by a new policy of the British Airports Authority.
So beware the bureacrats have spoken and pilots make an excellent example for those who's job, is to enforce the new rule.

marlowe
11th Apr 2006, 09:18
Well if you had to much cabin baggage what did you expect? just because you are in uniform it does not mean you get any favours if you worked for the airline you posistioned on then that might get you a favour but really you are just another pax trying to get everything and the kitchen sink in the cabin! ok rant over my pet hate pax cabin baggage!!! :*

Consol
11th Apr 2006, 09:23
Interesting, who took your bag from you? The BAA don't seem to have a right as your contract is with the airline and it is responsible. Also how does this fit with the policy of a certain low cost airline to cut checked baggage and let pax bring on two bags! I think you should follow this up more closely, it seems pilots are easy targets to annoy/humiliate/make examples of in the name of "security".

ZFT
11th Apr 2006, 09:44
You have my total sympathy over your lost bag – been there too many times, it’s no joke eh.

..but two pieces of cabin baggage!! I, Like Marlowe hate the bloody stuff, especially in economy. It’s cramped enough without other passengers taking advantage. One piece weighing x kgs should be enough.

WHBM
11th Apr 2006, 10:17
Interesting, who took your bag from you? The BAA don't seem to have a right as your contract is with the airline and it is responsible.
Absolutely. Your conditions of carriage are with the airline. BAA are nothing more than a supplier/subcontractor to your airline. You have not contracted with them for anything (except for things you buy directly from them like car parking). But security and baggage handling is part of what you pay for in your ticket.

Restrictions on baggage are driven by complaints about queues for the checking process. There is no security reason why bag numbers should be limited, there is nothing in the various security acts about limiting bag numbers. It is purely a cost-limiting measure by BAA to avoid employing extra security staff.

Note that if you go through security but then buy 20 large bagfuls at the BAA duty free shops beyond, that is of course FINE with BAA ! Maybe not with your airline of course.

If your airline has signed up to a contract with BAA to follow their procedures with their passengers, but has not passed this condition on to you in their contract of carriage, then that is the airline's problem not yours.

ExSimGuy
11th Apr 2006, 10:31
Bloody morons with over-size, over-weight carry-ons:mad:

One of my pet hates when flying (SLF).

WTF, On what grounds did you think that you were exempt from the airline's (not your own airline) carry-on rules? There are a couple of obvious reasons for the limit:

There's only so much space in the overheads, and I hate nothing more than "slip-shod" airport staff who allow some moron to fill a complete locker with his enormous "wheelie" (if it needs wheels, it's probably too heavy as well!) so that myself and the other guy in the row have nowhere to store our laptop bags.

With the current security situation, and the apparent shortage of x-ray operators (either that, or half the x-ray machines at LHR are out of order - but it never happens at a lot of other airports) long queues of pax trying to get from check-in to departure lounge should be expected to have only one bag, while you, as an example of the airline, can have more, and hold up the pax behind you while your (more than one) bags are screened?I know it's nice not to have to wait for the checked baggage to arrive at destination, but if you, like me, have to carry more than one "weight and size limited" bag, then I'm afraid that you have to "set an example to the rest of us"

Sorry mate, but not a lot of sympathy.

Backtrack
11th Apr 2006, 10:34
1) Where does it say that the extra bag was removed to the hold by the BAA? It doesn't. Whatthefuk only states that he believes 'the problem has been caused by a new policy' of the BAA.
2) What does it state on your ticket? Does it state only one item of hand baggage permitted in the cabin (or words similar to that effect) or is there an additional comment that aircrew in uniform can bring as much as they like, because we don't give a rat's ass about Joe Public?
I'm sorry you bag was subsequently lost - happens all the time - but have no sympathy for you trying to gain an advantage over other pax just because you are aircrew/in uniform.
Frankly, you should know better & set an example. Rant Over!!!

hapzim
11th Apr 2006, 10:45
Was the bag barcode tagged and did you get a receipt for it from your carrier.

Or is this the latest tealeaf scam :E

I position as crew in uniform all the time and just accept that anymore than one bag it has to be checked in and waited for at the other end. Real pain when bumped on a standby ticket and you the have to try to retrieve your checked luggage but not as an arriving pax.:* Immigration also struggle with the fact I havent left the country so havent got my passport out.:mad:

BlueUpGood
11th Apr 2006, 11:42
Folks..
This is a nationwide move by the DofT to speed up security by enforcing one piece / size restrictions. Security staff are to refuse entry airside and oversize/weight or extra bags are to be checked in with the airline.

I have sympathy with those who have become used to airlines turning a blind eye (WTF?). Until now any airline that strictly enforced the policy would ultimately lose custom. Now with security enforcing the rules, there is no negative impact on any individual carrier.

As pilots we may hate the carry-on but the bean counters were too afraid to tackle it on an individual basis. FWIW I think this is the perfect solution for all - once it become common knowledge WTF!

marlowe
11th Apr 2006, 12:00
I also posistion in uniform on other airlines and abide by there rules and regulations just because i am in uniform i do not expect any favours, i am just a pax to them who happens to have a uniform on. Handbaggage is just getting stupid these days pax do not seem to understand that you have only so much stowage space onboard regardless of A/C size! I try to get a window seat when ever i can not because i like the view but simply do not want a locker opening inflight and dumping its contents on me!

radeng
11th Apr 2006, 12:01
I wonder if the security lot have worked out that there's different rules for different classes of passenger.
Judging by the LHR chaos, it should DafT, not DofT. I know it's ultimately the fault of BAA (why is the managing director of HAL still employed?) but DafT should be doing something about it. Something like a £100 fine on BAA for each passenger who takes longer than 10 minutes to get through security. After all, they can do it far more quickly at ORD or PHX.....

Anti-ice
11th Apr 2006, 12:06
Exactly , for too long , people have conveniently increased the amount they bring onboard hoping the ground staff and cabin crew dont notice...
Its bl**dy dangerous, and im glad to see at last the issue is being addressed.

An average A320 for example has room for say 80 (SMALL) wheelies and an average amount of SMALL items that will fit under the seat in front...

More often than not, you get twice that coming on , plus laptop bags,suit carriers,rucksacks,shopping,handbags and large overcoats and jackets too - its impossible to get it all on,and many lockers are dangerously crammed.

Of course,many pilots/dispatchers refuse to take a delay in order to place these items in the hold - its anybodys guess where they end up then.

Lets hope this starts a new era of reasonable items being brought on, respect for other people onboard, and flights being able to leave on time rather than sort out mountains of excess handbaggage................

KATLPAX
11th Apr 2006, 14:24
Well, seeing how last year the airlines lost/misdirected 30 million bags, is it any wonder why PAX don't like to check bags? 30 MILLION!

I hate it as much as the next fellow watching fellow passengers come aboard with more than they can even lift into the bin, or ask why they have to gate check their trunk on wheels, holding us all up from an on time push. I think the airlines have to do a better job of tracking bags in order to get the public to trust the system, if FedEX can track a package clear across the world, the airlines should be able to do the same with my bags.

EastMids
11th Apr 2006, 14:36
A couple of weeks ago, an awefully "nice" BAA man at security at LHR T3 told me I couldn't take two carry-on bags onto a flight. I had openly displayed these bags and had them weighed, and had the airline's approval to take two bags onboard. I politely told the awefully "nice" BAA man at security that it was none of his business how many bags I took on board - that the airline had approved me carrying two bags, and the BAA's job was to security screen what the airline was prepared to allow me to carry. Enough said - two bags went through with me.

The BAA's job, as provider of screening services to its airline customers, is to screen whatever bags their customers want them to screen, not to impose their own limits. The limits the BAA are attempting to apply are merely a means to reduce the queues (and thus the blame / frustration) that builds up at check points as a result of them often not staffing all of the machines and detectors at peak times.

Andy

cavortingcheetah
11th Apr 2006, 14:37
:hmm:

A most contentious subject this.
Business passengers, that's those whose salaries and tickets are being paid either directly or indirectly by you and me, seem to think that they have a right to take on board, as hand baggage, a computer, an overnight bag and a garment bag. Some, of both sexes, have pretty little handbags too.
It's high time that those who are nothing more than paid hirelings of the consumer should be subjected to the same stringent requirements as are the masses who find themselves sardined into peasant class.
Mind you though, when flying First or Club class on smallish aircraft such as the A 320 or the 737; it is not unusual to find the first couple of overhead lockers crammed full of crew baggage.
Not that long ago on a flight from A to C in the land of the camels; the hand baggage of one hirsute, hatted Hamerican and his much younger female in tow occuped three overhead compartments. I could have stuffed a decent sized crocodile into his camera bag alone, a very pretty piece of aluminum it was too - the camera bag, you understand! The result was that certain other Club passengers had to sit with their reasonable sized hand baggage on their laps, not only during flight but for take off and landing as well. Now that particular 'necessity' might or might not have been the fault, for want of a better word, of the cabin crew. But it seems to me that draconian measures to deal with such situations are long overdue. If the authorities in the police state that is England wish to devolve upon themselves the responsibility for hand baggage monitoring then I for one, were I cabin crew or handling agent, would be nothing other than happy to see jurisdiction for this aspect of passenger inanity removed from my hands. Let the deturpation rest upon the head of another!:E

Golf Charlie Charlie
11th Apr 2006, 14:52
Mind you though, when flying First or Club class on smallish aircraft such as the A 320 or the 737; it is not unusual to find the first couple of overhead lockers crammed full of crew baggage.

Dead right there - or unread newspapers/magazines, or demonstration kit for safety briefings and so on and on. The airlines really need to think this one through as well. And then, because of that, your bags get moved by a 'nice' crewmember to a bin 10 rows down the plane - then try retrieving them against the flow on disembarkation.

ironbutt57
11th Apr 2006, 15:55
So what happens when you are positioning to operate a flight immediately and have no time/intention to enter the country and claim your check baggage, as you are to remain in transit???:confused:

cavortingcheetah
11th Apr 2006, 16:04
:hmm:

Good point that!

I'd postulate that since you are positioning you are on duty. Any time spent going through immigration, waiting at the carousel, collecting your bag and then getting airside again is duty time.
That's the watch out of your operations department? It has to comply with local laws as well as FDT limitations, does it not?
A fine kettle of fish which should afford much hair pulling to those beatific creatures in crewing who cut corners to the margins of the lunatic fringe.

I would reckon, in a nutshell, Brazil or otherwise, that it is not your problem.
:E :E :=

flyingbug
11th Apr 2006, 16:10
EastMids,

I 100% agree with you.
The BAA is there to screen/security check bags that the airline has approved for carrying onto the aircraft. If you have two bags and their size/weight comply with the airline's policy, the BAA should have no business applying a "0ne bag only" rule. The BAA's security post should be properly staffed instead to help alleviate congestion/delays.

cavortingcheetah
11th Apr 2006, 16:26
:uhoh:

You're quite right of course.
But, since 9/11, if not before, BAA staff would seem to view themselves as the constitutionally appointed interferons of the airborne travelling public.
Since most of them would appear to be of such limited intelligence as to have misread the instructional preamble for the entrance examination for non - commissioned officers, for such is, at the least, the role in which they must view themselves; then what on earth can one expect from those besides whose professional expertise Securicor guards would appear gifted?;)

DingerX
11th Apr 2006, 16:59
Blue Up Good may or may not be right about the particular case, but he is on the mark about the overall trend.

In the US as well, the latest rounds of carry-on regs were established at the FAA level. Carry-on pack mules are an industry menace. Aircraft aren't designed for that much hand luggage: In space-economized designs, hand luggage space is proportional to seat pitch. I'm sure they cause any number of injuries and tort claims too.
But pack mules exist for a variety of reasons:

to avoid baggage claims (time constraints, plus those servisair clowns in CPH seem to add an extra hour onto the trip)
because they're already at the weight limit. If you think what they're carrying on is bad, you should see what they checked, and they sure aren't going to pay more money for their ticket.
Fragile goods: you have a laptop and three bottles of red wine. You really want me to check those?
Fear of losing stuff/getting stuff stolen in baggage system: add to the wine and laptop some jewelry, and a change of clothing. The claim is less than one percent of all bags get lost, but we all remember when the bag doesn't show up (and it seems a lot higher than one percent, particularly if you include Schiphol).

So many people, not just positioning pilots, are going to be extremely resistant, because checking goods just sucks. When airlines have their own policies, making those severe causes hostility, and costs business. Claiming it's an FAA or BAA or whatever regulation gives the airlines some leeway, but the measuring and packing is still done at the gate by airline personnel. So "turning a blind eye" is good for business.
Dumping it on the security folks is great, because it's not the airline doing it, and most people hate those clowns anyway.

The only solution that might satisfy both airlines and passengers is something along the lines of what's done with regional aircraft: place the excess hand luggage on a rack right before entering the aircraft, and have handlers take care in putting on the plane. Then bring that luggage back up to the gate at debarkment. That way, the wine bottles don't break and spill all over everybody else's bags, and nobody loses anything.

Of course, that would cost money/space/facilities, especially for big planes, so nobody evidently wants that.


Overnight mail companies have a much simpler problem, by the way: one airline, packages that are much more regular in size (and the wine bottles are usually well packed), and several hours to sort mail to their destinations. Plus, nobody really remembers when an "express" package is a day late.

Taildragger67
11th Apr 2006, 17:11
At least partially, airlines' fault.

Example: not that many years back, BA doubled the weight that Club punters could bring into the cabin; ostensibly to allow for less time in lines at departure and a faster get-away at the destination.

It also meant they could sell more lovely hold space for freight.

View From The Ground
11th Apr 2006, 17:51
The BAA is putting a lot of pressure on the Airlines, who in the most part are resisting to reduce their passengers hand baggage...As usual the BAA are inconveniencing their customers (the airlines) and their customers (the passengers) to alleviate their own weaknesses. Whatever the merits of reducing or not hand baggage from a safety perspective the BAA's only motivation is to try and avoid the costs that come from staffing to meet the current screening requirements. If it was safety as someone else has pointed out then the quantity of duty free would be an issue...including those glass bottles that can turn into offensive weapons.
In the Skyport the BAA complained that they are now on average having to screen 2.3 items of baggage per passenger. Who is suprised by that? Since they now have to screen coats and laptops seperately and items such as handbags of course are screened are the passengers really doing anything wrong. Take one piece of hand baggage ... whatever size a handbag and a winter coat and you have three items that need to be screened, without the passenger doing anything amiss.
The two elements should be seperated, the hand baggage limit should be decided by the airlined who are responsible for their customer's safety on board and the BAA should provide adequate resource to screen people and their hand baggage to the required standard.

Golf Charlie Charlie
11th Apr 2006, 18:09
Since they now have to screen coats and laptops seperately and items such as handbags of course are screened are the passengers really doing anything wrong. Take one piece of hand baggage ... whatever size a handbag and a winter coat and you have three items that need to be screened, without the passenger doing anything amiss.
The two elements should be seperated, the hand baggage limit should be decided by the airlined who are responsible for their customer's safety on board and the BAA should provide adequate resource to screen people and their hand baggage to the required standard.

Well said. In the US I have four items go through. My single carry-on bag, then three buckets, with laptop, coat/keys/phone, and shoes. Sometimes they like the coat to go through separately. That makes - umm - five items. It seems to work. In the UK I have noticed that the laptop out requirement is a real cause for slow down.

411A
11th Apr 2006, 20:38
Yes, proper planning in advance, by most FD crew on positioning flight seems to work.

Flight case, in which a change of clothes, misc can be carried, to carry one thru for a few days 'til that mis-placed baggage shows up.

Surely this cannot be beyond the average common sense of the regular line pilot.
Then again, perhaps not....:{

Why are we not surprised?:}

Faire d'income
11th Apr 2006, 21:08
411A common sense is not only a rarity these days but it is often hidden behind the egos of those who can spell intelligence.

Try this once. Take a big wheelie and when positioning quickly pack away your uniform and license. Check in wheelie as a responsible aviation staff member.

When the carrier loses your bag contact your company to point out that you cannot operate until the bag is located. Kindly inform them that until the bag is found you can be located in the Waldorf Estoria.

marlowe
11th Apr 2006, 21:22
i was senior crew on a 100+ seater A/C last week had 40 pax onboard and they all moaned there was not enough locker space!!!!!! what they actually meant was that they could not put luggage directly in the locker above there seat, it was hilarious they would not move 5 feet to empty lockers, luggage soon went in there when i mentioned the hold though!!! why do pax think that the locker above there head is the only locker they can use? Dont even start me on Blackberries!!!!!!!:mad:

Sunfish
11th Apr 2006, 22:23
As a humble bit of Australian SLF, my ticket usually specifies I may take a garment bag, laptop/hand luggage and if female, handbag. No one seems to mind about a small bag of duty free.

Qantas/Virgin and the airports have plenty of those standard bag size testers and if you present with something unusually large you will be invited to try it for size.

The problem seems to me threefold:

(a) The ability to buy a large home sound system at duty free plus fifteen cashmere sweaters and then the passenger wants not only to take it as hand luggage, but unpack it on the aircraft!

(b) Check in staff not vetting the bags and asking how many bits of hand luggage the passenger has and marking the boarding pass or ticket accordingly. My experience is that it is a particular problem at certain airports where there are a lot of first time/once only travellers from the poorer parts of the world.

(c) Insecure baggage handling arrangements. Part of the problem is a reluctance to entrust expensive or irreplaceable gear to the baggage handling system. For example, when I'm travelling to a diving holiday, my regulator/mask assembly travels as my hand luggage because I can replace just about anything but that. I've gotten used to getting it out and showing the screeners everywhere.

Nov71
11th Apr 2006, 22:42
As a PAX I am fed up of diff airlines applying diff requirements for cabin luggage.
Size: I believe there is/was an EU standard for size based on overall dimension, but this could result in some peculiar shapes; so I tend to adopt the BA HtWiDe limits and only buy hand luggage which states it conforms, though often it is soft-sided!
Weight: Most cabin cases weigh 3Kg+ empty, thus leaving me with only 2Kg for change of clothes, wash bag (and laptop). Mobile phone, Walkman, pack of mints etc carried on my person
On smaller aircraft (Embraer) I am happy to accept valet service and handover/pickup my cabin luggage for the hold at the aircraft steps, to safe lost luggage/delays at carousel on business trips.
Paris check-in for Mcr-had to weigh in soft cabin case - 6Kg - whoosh, it was gone, before I could remove the 1litre (1Kg) bottle of water (hot summer
Flight delayed 3 hr and diverted to Birm, case arrived damaged. Yet I am amazed at what some airlines allow as hand luggage, Everest size back packs, 6 full bin liners for 1 chinese pax on a Hong Kong flight. Then Ryanair up the allowable cabin weight to 9Kg.
For Europe the allowable import allowances are 'generous'. For most airport or in-flight purchases why not a voucher system, redeemable on disembarkation, this would avoid transporting several hundred Kg of deadweight. This was used on cross-channel hovercraft.
Cabin safety and space are the criteria but let us pax have a predictable level playing field for all airlines at check-in

AMF
12th Apr 2006, 00:59
LHR is the WORST for carry-on Nazis and lost baggage! The whole "1 carry-on for economy, 2 for business" is pure, unadulterated class-concious crap, especially when more and more euro-airports are turning into nothing more than duty-free shopping malls with airplane parking. There seems to be no limit on how much merchandise punters can buy once they're past security, and then lug on (Hint; if you can't afford to buy stuff at the local retailer in your own town/country but can at the airport, YOUR TAXES ARE TOO HIGH...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!). If I'm going to work, I see no reason to give up stowage space designed for me to those too cheap and stingy to buy booze, perfume, and electronic gear at a normal place.

Someone with a purse as big as my computer bag, a roll-on, and a large shopping bag(s) seem exempt, and I'm being forced to accomodate them by the carry-on Nazis.

Even in economy, If I can fit one of my carry-ons in the overhead, and the other under the seat in front of me (computer-bag, etc), then pi$$-off!

If it's all stowable in approved overheads or under seats and within weight limits, those claiming it's a "safety-issue" merely reveal themselves to be busybody control freaks..it has ABSOLUTELTY NOTHING to do with safety!

RevMan2
12th Apr 2006, 06:37
The whole "1 carry-on for economy, 2 for business" is pure, unadulterated class-concious crap
Rubbish.
Your business class ticket provides you with flexibility and more legroom and it's targeting a specific market segment - those people whose time is a scarce commodity and who want to be in and out of airports as quickly as possible.
You BUY these benefits. If you don't place enough value on them to buy them, you do without. Simple as that.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong

alibaba
12th Apr 2006, 10:25
:eek: Who needs airline managers degrading our T+C's when a few people here are doing it to themselves. :{ :{


A bit of fellow professional courtesy wouldn't go a miss, we are all probably the most travelled pax's and spend half our life in airports. Helping someone get out of an airport 20 min early probably doesn't sound much but over the course of a year or a lifetime can be very helpful.

The moto is look after each other. :cool: :cool: :ok:

MichaelJP59
12th Apr 2006, 12:23
Isn't it also true that the increased seat pitch of the typical business/club class cabin will usually mean more overhead locker cubic metres per pax?

Hence the justification to allow more carry-ons for business.

RevMan2
12th Apr 2006, 12:34
Hence the justification to allow more carry-ons for business.
Wrong.
Business class pax get more carry-ons because it creates value for them and further differentiates Business class from Economy.

The moto is look after each other.
Wrong.
The motto is to look after your passengers. The rest takes care of itself.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong

ExSimGuy
12th Apr 2006, 18:08
I've already alluded to my thoughts on the carry-on-menaces, but have many moons ago commented on the Duty-Free shops on PPRuNe.

Maybe 30 years ago, I remember that D/F shops used to sell bottles of Scotch etc in plastic bottles- much safer, less likely to get broken in the event of brushing a plastic bag with 4 of them past a pillar in the airport.

And no bluddy use to Ozzy-Bin-Liner's mates on-board when the Stanley knives are confiscated! Presumably the "connoiseurs" objected to the "taste of plastic", but then they can buy from Roberts, at high-street prices:\ Pity we can't bring these back.

If you land in DXB or BAH (and probably others) there are Arrival Duty Free shops. This would solve the problem of all the glass (=weapons) bottles of booze (=inflammable substances) carried in the overheads. As well as saving (3 kg x 400 pax = 1.2 tonnes, of take-off weight)

But then I'm probably full of dumb ideas:confused:

snooky
12th Apr 2006, 22:37
I think that this is just another example of BAA showing a total disregard for their customer airlines and their passengers.
They were recently fined for their poor performance on security queues, and this is merely their way of avoiding such fines in the future. All that they would understand would be even greater fines in the future under performance standards which may need to be rewritten to include reference to passengers carrying bags as permitted by their ticket.
They should be forced to use some of the space dedicated at present for shops as extra security check areas, and fines should encourage them to employ sufficient staff.
The present situation is a shambles, talk about the tail wagging the dog.
Come down hard on the muppets running BAA, or more and more will avoid UK and transfer at well run airports.

CargoOne
12th Apr 2006, 22:49
I'm sorry to say that but many (I would actually say most) airlines are clearly in written allowing 2 pieces of cabin luggage for business-class passenger (subject to dims and weight). Most of the times I'm travelling in business and 2 bags allowance is something what I have paid for and -surprise- I'm using it. One suitcase and one garment bag. Having an extensive experience of delayed and lost baggage I don't want to put this kind of risk on my 1 or 2 day trip for a meeting. I cannot make a choise which of 2 pieces I could risk because I need really both of them otherwise I would leave them at home. From my experience in most cases airlines are quick to find and deliver your missing baggage. However "quick" means 6 to 24 hours on well-served routes in Europe and 18 to 72 hours on a long haul. Such timeframes are very understandable but in my case (and most other business travellers case) it means you specifiying your home address for delivery of missed baggage, not the place where are you now, because you will be back home about the same time they will find and send your baggage. Things getting from bad to worse if baggage is lost. Garment bags are not heavy but content is not cheap. $20 per kilo compensation for a ~4 to 5 kgs garment bag is probably between 10 to 25 times less that actual loss.

Tomorrow evening I will be departing from LHR, so let's see if BAA would have anything against my 2 bags.

cavortingcheetah
13th Apr 2006, 08:59
:hmm:

I have absolutely no sympathy with the business class traveller and his overblown conceptions of his own worth to society.
In the good old days one was allowed to carry on board a rug or overcoat, an umbrella, a camera and a reasonable amount of reading material for the flight.
Let's get back to that.
Two pieces of baggage in business class is, I would warrant, generally taken to mean two pieces over and above a briefcase and perhaps a computer.
As I look back down the aircraft; I see very few on free tickets with only two pieces of heave - ho luggage! Why so many wheelies if it's all so light?
In Peasant class; it would help if small children could be tranquilized and placed in comfortable loading containers in a designated hold, perhaps with a special attendant. Then all the clobber that has to travel with these sleep deprivators could be loaded elsewhere.:E

Jordan D
13th Apr 2006, 10:28
I hate to add my tupence worth, but having flown 'junta' class or loco, most don't seem to have minded a small rucksack and what is clearly a laptop bag, containing a laptop. Does this now change?

Jordan

GlobalConnex
13th Apr 2006, 14:42
Folks..
This is a nationwide move by the DofT to speed up security by enforcing one piece / size restrictions. Security staff are to refuse entry airside and oversize/weight or extra bags are to be checked in with the airline.

I have sympathy with those who have become used to airlines turning a blind eye (WTF?). Until now any airline that strictly enforced the policy would ultimately lose custom. Now with security enforcing the rules, there is no negative impact on any individual carrier.

As pilots we may hate the carry-on but the bean counters were too afraid to tackle it on an individual basis. FWIW I think this is the perfect solution for all - once it become common knowledge WTF!

That's correct, and also thank you for pointing out the difficulty of company-specific policies affecting customer loyalty. Indeed, the new policy is not going to be airline-specific any more. It is first and foremost to cut the larger queues that have resulted from additional separate screening requirements, notably the requirement of laptop removal from handbaggage for separate screening. Also, as so many pax now use self-service and/or check-in online, handbaggage through security and hence to the gates has simply become ridiculous. Apart from the safety implications of the amount of luggage in the cabin, it has tremendously slowed security and made it impossible for staff at the gate to deal with baggage (short-haul usually has three staff: one at the top dealing with flight closing, requests, etc. and two boarding, so no resources to argue with most of the flight over baggage - even this would mean more boarding delays as pax stay in the departure gate arguing with staff rather than boarding the a/c) and has been leading to delays for mainly two reasons: (1) inability to accommodate all bags on board resulting in checking in bags virtually as the aircraft door is to be closed; and (2) boarding is slowed down (whilst turnaround times are constantly reduced) as pax are trying to put their inappropriate 'cabin' baggage into the overheads and/or lockers, etc. etc. I have long hoped for an official regulation which can at least be enforced as the law would otherwise be broken. The arguments with pax on an individual basis are not sustainable and ineffective as one cannot rely on pax to voluntarily cut down on baggage.

I am not sure how outstations will deal with pax baggage on services to the UK, esp. if a pax is transferring through a UK airport, or, for that matter, if the law would apply to any UK airline (because of country of registry) regardless of destination of pax when inbound. Would connecting baggage be confiscated in Flight Connections, i.e. new facilities for a baggage check there would be required. Queues in Flight Connections have been murder as of late...

radeng
13th Apr 2006, 14:50
Of course, while the airline says business class pax CAN have 2 bags, there's complications if security say they can't. Especially when we know that the whole problem at LHR is down BAA's TOTAL MANAGEMENT STUPIDITY AND INCOMPETENCE, for which the travelling public has to pay hard cash. For such stupidity, there should be mass management sackings. In Japan, with management shown up as so incompetent, there would be expectations of hari-kiri.

redsnail
15th Apr 2006, 12:16
I actually understand exactly what original poster is talking about.
A solution would be to travel business class but I can't see the company concerned doing that.

When we position on an airline to X in uniform, the chances are that we're going to pick up another aircraft and do a few sectors and end up somewhere quite far away from X. If the bag that has been checked in gets lost, how on earth is the airline going to get it to us? Our plans change very quickly and to be without your bag for 5-6 days just isn't on.

We have to travel in uniform so if our bag is lost we can still work but tough luck regarding rest and the other days.

Even if the airline (and 95% of the time they do) get it right, to wait up to 30 min to collect the bag does impact on our ability to get to the aircraft to do our next flight.

KLMer
15th Apr 2006, 12:36
God you guys dont half like having a pop at a collegue given half the chance. Why oh why do pilots get worked up over the amount of cabin bags after all your not sitting with them are you, if you were cabin crew then god yes you must hate the stuff.

Secondly as positioning crew on another airline where u cant use there crew baggage u need to carry on bags (small flight case, and a nightstop bag) there is nothing worse than the airline loosing your bagwearing one shirt of a week and one pair of shreddies. After all we all know how many bags go missing dont we.

I travel both KLM and BA with 2 crew bags never once had a problem, its nice to see airlines looking out for fellow workers even though you may not work for them.

My advice is if they want to check a bag in nicely explain that it hold your uniform with u cant aford to loose and if they want to tag the bag no probelm but can u post it down the shoot at the gate, u know the bag is going to get on well hopefully.

Good luck with the bag issue. For god sake guys stop beating each other up for one minute and try helping each other after all its so nice when someone cares. What goes around comes around!!!!!

redsnail
15th Apr 2006, 17:42
For some reason the Edit function won't take the rest of my post...

However, the biggest risk is that if our company call us and want us to get off.(As does happen occassionally). Our checked in bag must also come off. That's going to cause at least a 30 min delay. Some how I can't see the airline and other passengers being happy with that.

What causes the delays at Heathrow is people not reading the signs and getting themselves prepared. ie over coats and jackets off, things out of pockets and the like. What would also help is longer "roller runs" so you can get your bag onto it while stripping off and dragging the laptop out.
I bet the queues would run a lot faster.

Oh, and employ more people.