PAYD - the decision has been taken?

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Reading today's Tranche 3 redundancy signal with interest, I happened across the paragraph "The drawdown programme now includes plans to disband the Cat Acct trade and pass its tasks to the Chef trade. This decision was predicated on the reducing role for Cat Accts in the provision of Catering Support for Operations, coupled with the decision to introduce Pay As You Dine (PAYD) across the Armed Services."

So the decision has been taken? Did I miss the announcement?

I haven't met anyone who thinks PAYD is a good thing (mind you, I don't know anyone who likes JPA or Capped Actuals either:rolleyes: )

I hear the sound one more nail being driven firmly home....

Any thoughts, ladies and gents?

SBG

[Fox-1]

If they spent more money on improving the quality of life for those in the RAF, they wouldn't have to spend so much on recruitment advertising to replace the disgruntled who are leaving.
PAYD has its good points in principle, BUT as soon as somebody starts counting how many slices of toast I've taken, it becomes a poor service.
I think we should have had a PAYD referendum.
Q: As experienced Military Personnel, would you like:
a) PAYD to be scrapped and the previous system reinststed?
b) PAYD to be instigated as it stands
c) PAYD to be introduced in the manner of the old system, i.e. breakfast is breakfast and the USER decides what a normal portion should be, and the cost CANNOT be any greater than the existing system for DECENT food (not the sh!te set menu, with nice food paying a healthy supplement).
d) to leaveand therefore don't actually care.

[ZH875]

I have a feeling that:

d) to leaveand therefore don't actually care.

Will be a hands down winner.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Sadly I agree that d will be the probable winner, but for me, I vote
A

[L J R]

I vote for a B* (where * allows me to bring my own bread and toast it on MOD equipment and therefore not get charged for breakfast at all) - in order for me to have a larger portion for Dinner. Or maybe I really should simply go out and claim the breakfast on JPA and risk the 5% chance of an audit.

[Danny_Boy]

Definitely 'A' from me.

I fail to see how I will be able to eat as much as I do now in the mess, for the same price, under PAYD. The reason we are so well catered for (banter about burning the water aside) is that all living in pers pay food charges, whether they eat in the mess or not. The ration assassins are allocated a portion of that money to feed everyone for a day (I think about 40p a head). They know that they will only have to cater for a certain percentage of those people as many choose not to eat in the mess - ie, although they are allocated x amount of person, they can take a calculated risk and spend y amount, with the risk of running out if everyone decides to eat on that particular day.

On a separate, but linked, issue. Most junior ranks' messes have no cooking facilities ("oh, but you have a microwave", the stn cdr says!). How can anyone be expected to eat a full and balanced diet 3 times a day from 1 microwave between 40 people? That leaves no option but to eat in a PAYD mess (at whatever they want to charge), eat microwave meals 3 times a day (fitness and health strategy?), or eat in a restaraunt/burger bar every day (worst of both worlds!).

Also, the caterers only ever got a portion of food money because the rest went to providing free food for OOA detachments for everyone, including those who did not 'pay in' for it in the first place. I have never met anyone who begrudges this, and certainly don't myself. However, if I am to start paying (close to?) market rates for my meals, and still be subsidising married/living out people on detachments who are getting free meals (along with me) I will be a bit :mad: off!

From a management point of view, how many of my young lads who are rubbish with money (and are not allowed my support as they have 'human rights' to run up loads of debt - OC PSF taking peoples wages and paying them an allowance again, anyone?), are going to eat little/nothing each day, in the belief that they are doing no harm and will be saving a few quid? Just a thought.

[southside]

Im looking forward to PAYD at Yeovilton. I live in the Wardroom and feel it is unfair to expect me to pay for every meal, even if I don't take it. Why should I pay for an evening meal if Im night flying. And, so, I'm looking forward to the introduction of PAYD. I have cooking facilities in my cabin and will feed myself. I will pay for what I eat and not subsidise anyone else. Cool.

[Bing]

I vote A. Despite not normally eating three meals a day I still pay less under the current system at Yeovilton than I did under PAYD at Culdrose, and the food's better.

[ZH875]

Im looking forward to PAYD at Yeovilton. I live in the Wardroom and feel it is unfair to expect me to pay for every meal, even if I don't take it. Why should I pay for an evening meal if Im night flying. And, so, I'm looking forward to the introduction of PAYD. I have cooking facilities in my cabin and will feed myself. I will pay for what I eat and not subsidise anyone else. Cool.Maybe, just maybe, (we all live in hope) you will manage to give yourself severe food poisoning.....:ok:

[sooms]

At many stations it is actually forbidden in SSO's to cook (microwave or otherwise) in certainly JR accomodationand most Snco's messes unless in properly established kitchen area's that most places don't have.

So much for freedom of choice!

[Pontius Navigator]

I must be dim but I do not understand how they ever managed to dream up the 'pay for OOA' food from the UK daily food charge. It beggars belief and I have never had anyone explain it without smoke and mirrors.

The only thing that made sense was the police dogs who got 3 times the cash allowance.

I can remember when ration allowance was 7/4 per day, and paid when you went on leave. When the military salary came in we paid out instead. But what is 7/4 worth at today's rates. A lot more than is taken now I am sure.

[Bruiser Loose]

I feel that we only have ourselves to blame, wrt PAYD. When I joined in the mid-eighties, one of the big gripes when a Grand Fromage was visiting was how we paid for our food.

The age old "I don't eat 3 meals, therefore why should I pay for them?" finally got through to the Brass and we now have PAYD as a result.

Having spoken to buddies at EGDR, the whole system stinks. The trial wasn't very successful, but the powers that be have still opted to make it so.

Bing, agree with you 100%.

Southside, stop being the ship's c@ck! Cool? How the f*ck can something like cooking yourself a meal in your cabin be f*cking cool? Chiseller.

[SirToppamHat]

SBG

Of course the decision's been taken. You didn't honestly think that this Trial Business was actually intended to take a balanced view and then come up with a way forward based on its findings and a reasonable consideration of the impact on all those involved? You fool!

STH

[Impiger]

Not entirely surprisingly the view expressed by Southside is pretty much in line with the view expressed by the vast majority of other ranks and many SNCOs and Officers when they were asked for their opinion of the standard daily food charge (old) system. I think it was the AFPRB that agreed that in the modern world our old system looked strange. It was never a trial it was always phased implementation because of the level of investment by the contractor in the associated money-spinners like the clubs, shops etc. Now that we have some experience of the 'new' I'm sure the majority in the RAF would go back to the old system if they could. Trouble is they can't.

Oh except at one or two select overseas locations where the contractor can't also run the shops and clubs and is therefore not interested in providing just a dining service. So daily messing will continue at most UK detachments to NATO HQs.

[JessTheDog]

I fail to see how I will be able to eat as much as I do now in the mess, for the same price, under PAYD. The reason we are so well catered for (banter about burning the water aside) is that all living in pers pay food charges, whether they eat in the mess or not. The ration assassins are allocated a portion of that money to feed everyone for a day (I think about 40p a head). They know that they will only have to cater for a certain percentage of those people as many choose not to eat in the mess - ie, although they are allocated x amount of person, they can take a calculated risk and spend y amount, with the risk of running out if everyone decides to eat on that particular day.


Very true - also the standard of catering at some Messes (a certain headquarters unit springs to mind) at weekends was (in my experience) frankly insulting. The contract caterers peruse the warning-out book for the weekend in the full knowledge that food charges are still being paid (as a weekend is not in excess of 3 days stand-down) and put on the bare minimum for the few sad persons (normally of lowly rank) with no home to go to. Slap on pie, chips and beans and pocket the difference.

PAYD as a concept is absolutely fine, but you can be sure that the contractors will screw over their uniformed "customers" in every way possible.

Perhaps an issue for a Federation....

[southside]

Bruiser Loose - Good reply. well woprth the few minutes you spent typing that.

Now please, Vous êtes vraiment un grand fromage vous branleur. Monte et se développe et s'obtient un travail approprié. Et essayez svp, svp
d'employer de vrais mots et symboles non stupides.


Jess - I discussed this with my federation rep only a month or so ago and apparently its a non starter....the MOD have a remit to provide fresh, wholesome food. And you have a remit to pay for it. How that payment is recovered from you is up to the MOD.

[P155ed0ff]

Thought I would just throw a little thought into the mix for you guys. Now we have JPA (Doesn't work) if you are on leave and wish to eat in the mess you have to buy a ticket this will cost you more than if you just indicated the eating in the mess part of the old leave pass. MMMMM me thinks they are taking the P***. Also if you have a guest now and wish to buy a meal ticket so you may both eat in the same place the main meal has now apparantly gone from some few pounds to over ten, again a lot of cash. So all in all everyting will cost a whole lot more. :*

[Grimweasel]

Southside...

pourquoi êtes vous écrivant une réponse dans ce tounge de Français de merde. Le grand anglais, le dominateur du monde et la grande langue d'empire, n'est-il pas de l'enought pour vous ?


we can all use babel fish and look educated. How about in dutch???

waarom u bent schrijvend een antwoord in dit tounge van Fransen van stront. Zijn de grote het Engels, de heerser van de wereld en de grote taal van imperium, niet van enought voor u?

So please do get a life!

[southside]

Sadly, I won't be able to respond for sometime. I'm off on my travels and will be leaving this site for a couple of years....I'm sure you will all mss me. I'll post again when I'm back in the country. Farewell fellow prooners...

[Safety_Helmut]

good f*ckin' riddance !

[Onan the Clumsy]

If you have to pay as you dine, do you get a refund if later on you sick some of it up?