The Licences

[Martin4]

PPL, Multi Engine, ATPL Theory and so on....
1) What is the order you have to get these?


Intergrated or Modular
2) Iv been reading around, is there a better one to go for?



CAA Approved
3a) A "school" where you get your licence has to be "CAA Approved" correct?
3b) is there a list somewhere with all the flying schools/clubs that are approved?


Thanks,
Martin

[mcgoo]

PPL, Multi Engine, ATPL Theory and so on....
1) What is the order you have to get these?
I'm Doing mine, PPL, ATPL theory, hour building, CPL, IR, MCC


Intergrated or Modular
2) Iv been reading around, is there a better one to go for?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218620
entirely your choice, what suits you best!


CAA Approved
3a) A "school" where you get your licence has to be "CAA Approved" correct?
3b) is there a list somewhere with all the flying schools/clubs that are approved?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF




Thanks,
Martin

hope this is of help martin

[Send Clowns]

Have you read the thread entitled Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION!! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) ?

[Martin4]

hope this is of help martin
It was, thank you.

Next Question

When the time comes for me to get my licences ill most likely be doing the modular route, eather multiflight.com (or something similar) or my own modular but trying to be as intantive as possible taking the same hours but less amount of months to complete.

If i went my own way and arranged the module route myself it would be good to get as far as i could without having to change flying clubs/schools to much so i found one http://www.southendflyingclub.co.uk/coursemain.htm

They do PPL, IMC, Multi Engine, Night Rate, IR, CPL, Aerobatics and FIC.

mcgoo - I noticed you didnt put a few of those in your "order" of doing things, maby some are not needed...., anyway, here is the way i would think of doing them. Let me know how it looks, i might put something in that would be a waste of money, or forget something i would need...

Southend Flying Club:
PPL - So i can fly!
Night Rate - So i can fly at night to
IMC - So i can fly in more conditions
Multi Engine - Not sure if its needed..... is it?
CPL - Obvious. Southend description makes it sound like you do ATPL Theory at this stage along with a general flying test...
IR - Obvious

And that would give me a Frozen ATPL wouldnt it?

There after i would have to go some where else to obtain the MCC.


Sorry for the silly question but this seems to be the best place to ask!
Martin

[Martin4]

Have you read the thread entitled Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION!! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) ?
No i havent, but thanks for the link, great links in the post by scroggs :ok:

[mcgoo]

Martin

yes you are quite right in stating I missed a couple of things out, I did my PPL in the US and got my night qualification within my PPL training, my MEP rating I will either do with my hour building or with my CPL. I have given a lot of thought to the IMC but have decided against it, I will do the IR straight after CPL, I have had a lot of conflicting advice about the doing the IMC before the CPL but to me it seems an extra cost I can do without.

If money is tight do not forget that training in the US is a lot cheaper, there is a lot of negative posts on pprune about training in the US saying it is inferior etc or you will need to do lots of hours conversion etc, I did my PPL in the US last year and had to do 1 hour when I returned to get checked out.

I do agree with a lot of the more experienced guys though that you should train where you intend to fly so after my hour building I will be doing my CPL and IR in the UK.

[Send Clowns]

Used to tell my students "The only silly question is the one you think of in the exam hall". I would have to add here the one asked in JetBlast expecting a rational answer, but we are not there.

I would only add that you must do the ATPL theory after achieving the PPL but before the CPL or IR skills test. Except for the PPL being the first thing, and needing 150 hours to start the CPL, then the order of rest is in fact entirely up to you.

All commercial and IR training including groundschool, and I think MEP as well, must be at an approved FTO. The PPL, night and (if you do it) IMC can be at a registered training facility.

There are other schools that do all modules, including the ground school (I used to work at one). As far as I am aware it is only Cabair, Oxford and BCFT (my old employer, who are of course the best :} ) plus possibly one in Coventry still, although I am not sure who is still doing what there. Moste others will help you arrange all modules, although they send you elsewhere to do the groundschool and perhaps some hour building.

[sicky]

is an IMC compulsory, or is it covered in the IR?

[Send Clowns]

Not compulsory - in fact only available in the UK.

[sicky]

Is it useful? I'll check prices of it later on.

[Martin4]

Is it useful:

Id say it depends on what your aiming for.... if you just have a PPL and are staying with it then if you had a IMC you could fly in more weather conditions :ok:

But if your going on your way to get a f/ATPL quite quickly a IR would do the same thing so you would be wasting your time and money on something you could do without

Just my oppinion, im no expert, but it seems logical :)
Martin

[bfato]

But if your going on your way to get a f/ATPL quite quickly a IR would do the same thing so you would be wasting your time and money on something you could do without

Except if you have to hour build to reach 170 for the CPL anyway, why not do something genuinely useful for 15 of them?

[Martin4]

Except if you have to hour build to reach 170 for the CPL anyway, why not do something genuinely useful for 15 of them?
True, i didnt take that into concideration.

[sicky]

thanks :ok:

[Boingy]

Granted you can do it, however if you are going the CPL/IR route then it is an additional cost. It is only a national rating so you can't use it on day trips to France, and it gives you NO credit towards the IR (other than perhaps some practical experience...?) with an IMC costing around £2,000 (c. £120/hr + VAT) + landing fees + test - time which could be used to push yourself on awkward and challenging XCs. Time for an age old quote... A superior Pilot uses his/her superior judgement to avoid using his/her superior skill....

[bfato]

Boingy, my key phrase was "if you have to do the hours anyway". Unless you don't pay for your hour building then the additional cost is very much less than that you quote.

In addition to teaching you skills that will come in useful for the instrument portion of the CPL and help you during the early phases of your IR course, a good instructor will pick up on and address any bad habits you've adopted since PPL. He'll end details VMC with simulated emergencies, he'll pull you up on your log keeping, he'll nominate your touch down points. Sure, it will cost you instructor time at 15 x £20 plus a dozen approach fees but what's that, one hour in a twin at commercial rates? Half a CPL re-test fee?

And if it makes you a safer pilot during the rest of your hour building then even better.

Just an opinion based on my own experience. ;)

edit - I do agree with you about the challenging XCs though. Despite spending 15 hours on the IMC and 6 on the night qulaification, I still managed to do plenty, including 50 hours solo around and across Oz. The trick, IMO, is to do a mix of things, building experience AND skill as you go.

[Boingy]

I do agree and I don't. But accept your points - you've got to have fun and enjoy it but push yourself. It shouldn't be a chore - If you go with a friend you can practice emergencies - pull the mixture or the throttle on the guy, much more alarming when it goes quiet!

In essence I am unsure - I am only at 90 odd hours still got some building to do - not convinced that I can afford to do an IMC at present, am working in poorly paid but aviation related jobs. So for me, it's a case of I need it as cheap as possible.

[bfato]

Fair does, if you can't afford it you can't afford it. Respect to you for finding the money to do everything else. You're quite right, it would be £300-500 you don't have to spend.

My points really were (a) it's a lot less extra than maybe you thought and (b) the training wouldn't be a waste, even if the priviledges would later be later superceded by those of the IR.

Most people don't bother. I'm glad I did.

I would add that, if you do decide to do it, make sure you get an IR rated instructor. An IR renewal examiner is even better. :)

[Boingy]

Thanks, I am certainly being persuaded to seriously consider it now.. :)