Which ATPL Ground School?

[jonjon]

Hi everyone,


Happy new year to al!
I'm looking at schools for the ground studies, all I could find in London was London Metropolitan University offering the residential and distance learning (I have accomodation sorted in London hence this choice).

Anyone of you knows about this school or others in London and what they're worth?

I will probably start between March and June (providing Class 1 goes though ok)

Thanks for your help

JJ

[bolty_1000]

Im currently at London Met. Great instructos, great books.
Its tough at first but once you get into the swing of things its OK!!
Send me a PM if you want anymore advise on it....

[jingle01]

I am looking to start full time ATPL ground school around August time. Can anyone recomend any schools. Ive heard Bristol is good but i want to do full time learning. Any ideas?

[Charlie Zulu]

Unfortunately, as you are most probably aware, Bristol are a distance learning only school. I don't know if they have any plans on starting a residential course but if they did and its anything like their distance learning course then I know where I would go (in hindsight and all that)...

Anyway for a residential ATPL ground school then I'm sure you can't do much better than Oxford ground school. I know a fair few people who have attended the Oxford ATPL Residential course (Modular) and they have all had happy experiences.

[welliewanger]

Alternatively there's cabair. I've not done the groundschool (yet) but that's where I'm going to go.

[smith]

try www.gcns.ac.uk/aviation in Glasgow, currently there at the moment, good pass rates.

[jace]

has any one any views on CAAT in cranfield? i'm thinking of going there

[OpenCirrus619]

I did my CPL (distance) at CATS (http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/) - no complaints from me.

If I was you, before committing a large chunk of time and money to a school, I would pop in and visit each of the ones you are considering. When I spoke to Stuart Smith I found his enthusiasm amazing. I also found the staff there were prepared to put in that extra bit to get everyone through.

OC619

[Send Clowns]

As far as I know (and I worked for BCFT, so was in the business).

ATA Coventry
BCFT
Cabair
Glasgow College of NS
OATS
London Met

[OpenCirrus619]

As far as I know (and I worked for BCFT, so was in the business).

ATA Coventry
BCFT
Cabair
Glasgow College of NS
OATS
London Met

And CATS

OC619

[Send Clowns]

Thought I might be out of date, but I think you are a bit previous! They didn't do full-time training last time I met the guys at the Flyer Exhibition. It seems they are getting that up and running, and are awaiting approval according to the website.

[SILENT_BADGER]

I'm a student at CATS and they run in-house training for the ATPLs so although its a distance course we're in there each day being taught by instructors with the advantages that has over toiling alone at home.

This is a 9 month course - the new thing being submitted for approval is a 5 month course. Because thats more intensive and quick I understand there are extra regulations associated with it like having to sign the register each day to ensure the necessary number of training hours are accumulated.

I'm 7 papers through the course and am pretty happy - 96% average so far.

Cheers

[zakpeegoodus]

the new thing being submitted for approval is a 5 month course

On that note, supposing you were fairly well up with the study, and wanted to the exams in quick succession, what would be the fastest way to do this? Through a distance course, or full time one?

What is the minimum in which the exams can be completed via a distance course (supposing you the new thing being submitted for approval is a 5 month course are up with the theory!) and which companies can you suggest to this end?

[SILENT_BADGER]

I think that Bristol distance learning is only 6 months as well and they have a very good reputation. A lot of people on residential courses at other schools still pay to use the Bristol website as they have a lot of practice questions that have a high degree of relevance to what you will see in the papers.

Cabair's modular residential course is 5 months also but they have specific start dates (about 4 or 5 a year I think) whereas CATS you can start when you like as it just keeps looping around.

I'm 32 now so I wanted to do it quickly but also get good marks so I decided to go full time and move to live near Cranfield. I guess your personal circumstances would dictate the best choice for you - if you don't need to work and can physically get to an in-house school I personally think you learn more by getting face to face with instructors.

The only other thing I'd say and you probably already know - doing the ATPLs in this timescale is going to demand a lot of time every day - residential would be 9-5 then doing practice questions most nights and usually one day out of the weekend.

Cheers

[FougaMagister]

Send Clowns - ATA Coventry closed a while ago (unfortunately); the only full-time ground school there is now Atlantic Flight Training.

I agree that with Oxford Aviation's ATPL groundschool you can't really go wrong; very good manuals, excellent feedback papers.

Cheers :cool:

[SQ7700]

Or if you fancy a sunburn on top of it and relatively cheap living whilst training you could look into Naples Air Center in Florida. I know they have been slagged of on here a few times (specially for their flight department), but I'm currently a student there and have to say the ground schools is pretty good.

Their pass rate is amongst the highest and with the feedback you receive at the end the real exams come very easy.

[count dingleberry]

seeing the problems NAC are going through right now, I think going there at this time could give you more than just a sunburn.......

as for fulltime ground school, I don´t think you can go wrong with oxford,
the books are A-grade, and so is the teaching I have heard .:ok:

[BroomstickPilot]

Jingle01,

If you are considering London Met, look up my post on the subject, which would have been under the heading of London Guildhall University.

Broomstick.

[jingle01]

Cheers

I have decided on BCFT in the end. I went for a look around and was very impressed. Very friendly and bournemouth is a great town.

[dxbpilot]

Can anyone please point me in the direction of a good ground school / university to complete all 14 JAA ATPL exams as I'm converting my ICAO(AUS) CPL and want a frozen ATPL. I have contacted a school in WA but they only do it by distance education, and I need the class environment.

thanks ppruners

[flz]

HI Everyone

I am going to convert my ICAO license to JAR license. I was wondering does anyone have any feed back for CATS as a Residential ground School course.
Or can anyone recommend a residential course for me. if possible would like to hear from people who have either been on a course at, CATS, Oxford, or Cabair.

Thankyou for your help:)
FLZ

[lionco]

I did my ICAO to JAR at BCFT in Bournemouth. Nice part of the country and as a pilot from the Southern Hemisphere, I did appreciate the milder weather too.:}
In regards to the exams, as you have to do all 14, it is not really a conversion.
I have also dealt with Bristol Ground School and would happily recomend them for distance learning.
PM me if you need any further info.
Good luck
:ok:

[flz]

Hi Everyone

I am converting my ICAO licence to JAR. I am going to go on the residential Ground School. However I do not have any full ideas as to where to go. It is going to be Either Cabair, or Oxford.
I need somewhere to stay close to the School, as I have no Car at the moment, and do not want to spend a fortune on Accommodation. I like the sound of both Schools. If anyone can help me out with deciding on one or the other, Accommodation also I would really appreciate it thanks.

flz

[GusHoneybun]

Personally, I would visit both schools and then make my own mind up. All this thread will end up doing is having people going on about how their school was the best, but nobody is being objective. Why, because nobody has completed their groundschool twice at different schools. Hence it'll come down to peoples opinions.
So rather than trust a bunch of anonymous eejits, go and make up your own opinion.

[smith]

Try Glasgow www.gcns.ac.uk/aviation they have halls of residence right on the campus which is also in the middle of the city of Glasgow, very handy.

£80 per week all in, no bills, no council tax and a free highspeed internet connection in your room. Also each room is en-suite and course is cheap. They have a new course starting at the beginning of April.

[shacs13]

Coming towards the end of my PPL course now and am now deciding where to go and do my ATPL ground studies (residential preferably). Live in the UK and have had a look around Oxford and was very impressed. Have also heard good things about other schools, so am not sure where to go now - any recommendations? anywhere to stay clear of?! Thanks

[Dodgy Dutchman]

I would say: Stick to Oxford (but I'm biased :\ )

Bornmouth, Cranfield and Bristol are reasonably good.
Those are the ones that keep appearing...
I would stay away from the smaller ones

DD

[Deano777]

Bornmouth, Cranfield and Bristol are reasonably good.



Reasonably good? how do you come up with that assumption? have you studied with these as well as Oxford? seems to me like a rather flippant statement considering "generally" you would only ever experience one training provider

Dean

[Con-Trail]

So you never read any posts about those ground schools, do you? You have to experience it first hand to be able to comment on them?

That's gonna cost you a lot of money that way.

Anyway, what has DD done to you for biting his head off?

Con-Trail

[BIG MISTER]

I can only comment on Bristol which is a distance learning ATPL provider.

They are amazing !

I can however comment on the number of other students I met on my trips to the CAA at Gatwick and one things seems to be commonplace....the high % of those who used Bristols Feedback !

Good luck with your studies :}

[Deano777]

So you never read any posts about those ground schools, do you? You have to experience it first hand to be able to comment on them?

Absolutely spot on, that is exactly my point, but DD made a flippant comment about the other groundschool providers to which he "probably" has never experienced, whereas the posts you read are from people who have experienced them, so your argument/gripe does not hold water.
You are reading into my post too much, I can't really see where I was bitng his head off (as you put it) but merely stating a fact

D.

[Con-Trail]

Talking about experience, I'm studying at Oxford at the moment on and integrated course. I would recommend their ground school to anyone.
They publish their own course material, and are constantly updating according to changes in JAA rules etc.
In their books they have a great amount of feedback questions (Questions that people remembered after taking the JAA exams and fed them back to the instructors). This definately helps to get through the JAA's!
They use a lot of computer aided animations which helped me understanding some concepts a little bit easier.
If you want do study long distance you can actually get some cd-roms that will help you understand more about one of the 14 subjects.
The instructors are very professional and the accomodation (if you want to study on site as opposed to long-distance) is good (all air conditioned)

But by all means, do your own investigation. Most of these ground schools have a seminar that you can go to.

Hope this helps

C-T

[BOZZATO]

Hi there:ok:

I would also strongly recommend sitting the ground school at Oxford. The work is extremely intense and the instructors are fantastic!!! They all have their unique individual ways of getting their point across. They have fantastic teaching aids and each and every lecturer is a character!

I have visited many other FTO's and can say without a shadow of a doubt that Oxford is the best by a mile - so much so that i am currently studying there on an APP course;)

What ever you decide to do i wish you the very best luck!

Regards

Bozzato:ok:

[smith]

As it is a residential course you are looking at, have you thought of Glasgow www.gcns.ac.uk/aviation. Very popular place at the moments, two classes running at the moment and both full. Our class just sat Perf, Planning, R-Nav and insts in April and the class average for all tests was in high 90's.

Good thing about Glasgow is its cheap, modern halls of residence, slap bang in the middle of Glasgow a very modern bustling big city if that's what turns you on.

[ACH]

Coming towards the end of my PPL course now and am now deciding where to go and do my ATPL ground studies (residential preferably). Live in the UK and have had a look around Oxford and was very impressed. Have also heard good things about other schools, so am not sure where to go now - any recommendations? anywhere to stay clear of?! Thanks

I am currently an Oxford student,i can strongley recommend Oxford. Great school ,Great instructors and they are exremlely well connected with all of the Airlines.It is expensive to go to Oxford but you certainly get value for money.
Oxford is very , very good if you want full time gs:)
Bristol gs is very, very good if distance learning is your thing:)
Good luck
A

[wbryce]

Remember budget well for a residential ground school course! I'm planning for Oxford too. The course costs £3995 and a further £1000 for exam fees / materials, then living expenses for 6-8 months and accomodation. Roughly speaking it will cost about 8k-9k residential.

[FlyingEngineer]

£6000-£8000 is a lot for the ATPL exams especially if you also consider when studying full time you will not be earning any money, a possible loss of earnings of maybe about £6000, costing a total of around £13000!

I am personally doing mine distance learning with Bristol (who are very good) while working full time and am due to finish my last six soon which will have taken nine months. Total cost will be about £3500 which is about £10000 less for the same result. Its not for every one but worked for me!

Have also heard good things about Oxfords distance learning package.

[wbryce]

FE,

Very much aware of that point, I'm the type of person that likes to be taught in a class room. I could push myself and do distance learning but I feel much happier with the idea of residential. It suits me better to do residential, I feel I will learn the material better than I would distance learning. Plus its a good way to meet mates and have a good laugh while learning! :)

[BIG MISTER]

I'm with you WB, the 'chalk n talk' of a classroom works better for me and I gained lots of mates over the years thanks to aviation !

But there r cheaper and better ways out there. Do your home work before you jump.....but whatever you do ENJOY ! ! ! :}

[martyn_1985]

Hi, Im currently ready to go to uni and do my atpl exams but i was wondering if any1 has information about other universities besides London because I already have info about them. Cheers

[JetSetJ]

Not sure if you have considered Bristol. One thing is for sure when you commence your studies their feedback is a must!! I'm a student on Oxfords' APP course and i can honestly say their instructing is fantastic!!! They definately have the most charasmatic instructors who are always willing to give you a helping hand!! The guys at OAT definately know their stuff and if you're considering doing modular/integrated i would definately recommend visiting Oxford. There is just one downside their feedback is pretty poor!!! But like i say Bristols' is awesome!!

All the best with your studies and i hope my post helped.

JetSetJ:ok:

[captwannabe]

If you're going to pay £60k to £80k for flight training, surely you would expect good feedback when doing your ATPL writtens? You shouldn't need to spend more money paying for a service from a ground school provider which should be well-looked after by your FTO. I'm not attacking any FTO, but if you're shelling out big money, you would expect them to have this sorted.

[smith]

I think LOndon Met is the only Uni that provides the JAA ATPL, all but one of the rest are privately run courses. The other one is at a college in Glasgow and is very similar to Uni only slightly smaller and has all the facilities a college can provide ie gym, pool, halls of residence, refectory, library. It is Glasgow College of Nautical Studies and Glasgow is a great city. www.gcns.ac.uk/aviation

[normann]

hello im from france .english is not my mothertongue .i will try to write in english.i am looking for a place for the jaa atpl courses .the jaa tells that the minimum hours for the atpl courses is 650 hours .in france all the school teaches about 1500 h of ground studies .so they teach you more than the jaa reglementation and more than you need to know ..
i want to do my atpl in english.about your opinion what is the school where the jaa atpl courses is not very difficult .
i explain myself .i have got some friend who try to do their atpl in a belgian flight training ( www.hubair.be).every (http://www.hubair.be).every) two day you have a test to determine what is your level in the subject. it was for them very difficult to have their atpl in this fto .so they didnt get their atpl because the level of the school was very high.they mooved to another school in belgium and get easier the atpl because the school teach you how to pass the exam and not more than you need to know.for example londonmet teaches you 650 hours of ground studies for the atpl courses and in the same time the glasgow college teaches you 850 hours ..i know that according to my level i dont have the level to go to the schools live oxford or cabair or flight trainig europe .can someone tells me where is the place that the atpl courses is explained not in the most difficult way but in clear terms and what is the school that teaches you only what you need to know for the exam and not more .
thank you

[Captain N]

hello normann
A good school would be Atlantic flight training in coventry www.flyaft.com (http://www.flyaft.com)
I'm half way through my first term and very happy with the school, as you wanted, they dont teach you more than whats required by the JAA
prices are reasonable too


Good luck:)

[GusHoneybun]

Don't be too concerned with the hours. If you are studying by distance learning, then these time are only a guide. It will take as long as it takes, depending on your existing knowledge and experience. With Distance learning, you will aslo be required to attend 2 sets of 2 week brush up courses at the relevent school.
Having said that, most schools in the UK base their syllabus around the 650 hours total. If you attend a full time course then this will take around 6-7 months in total. Studying distance learing (DL) can take anywhere from the same time, up to many years to complete. As I said before, depends on the person.
All the schools in the UK are good, and have a reasonable pass rate. Try and get as much feedback questions as you can. Learn the subject, do the feedback questions, then use the feedback to highlight any parts that you are not confident with. Repeat process until you cant think of anything other than calvert lighting systems, then sit the exam, pass, then process to nearest bar to celebrate.

Best school in the UK? Who knows! I'm sure this thread will end up with a list of people recommending their own school. Anyhoo but here is a list of their webbie sites.

Brizzol (http://www.bristol.gs/)
Cabair (http://www.cabair.com/modular/02.htm)
Oxford (http://www.oxfordaviation.net/air_gtraining.htm)
AFT (http://www.flyaft.com/contentok.php?id=78)
Glasgae ya wee chube! (http://www.gcns.ac.uk/article/uploaded/JAAATPLAWebsite.doc)
Landahn init (http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/depts/bssm/aviation/aviation_home.cfm/courses.html)

[wangus]

I did distance learning course with Bristol Groundschool. 14 first time passes with 92% average. Instructors are all retired military or commercial pilots/engineers/navigators. Hard 18 months, but results speak for themselves. I would highly recommend them, but be prepared to forego your social life.

[normann]

hello

can someone tells me the name of the schools in any european country where the jaa atpl is explained in clear and easy terms and where the purpose of the atpl courses is to pass the exam and not to have aeronautical culture .

any country will be ok ( uk spain .belgium etc..
thank you

[aircockroaches]

normann

There are many ways as to how to achieve your JAA ATPL. In addition, there are loads of school scattered around Europe which offer JAA ATPL courses.

If you have no flying experience and would like to achieve a JAA ATPL, you are probably referring to the kind of course which takes you all the way through - and for this, there are two ways to go about it, Integrated or Structured Modular.

If you have some flying experience (i.e. JAA Private Pilot's Licence) then you are probably referring to the Modular ATPL course where you can do any licence or rating you want, in what order you like.

I am assuming that you are in the first case:

Option 1 is going Integrated. This applies only if you can invest large amounts of money in flight training. As far as I know, the only Flight Training Organisations (FTOs) that provide JAA Approved Integrated ATPL training (from zero hours to frozen ATPL) are CABAIR (http://www.cabair.com) and Flight Training Europe (http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com) in Jerez. I am not sure about Oxford Aviation Training (http://www.oxfordaviation.net) in the United Kingdom.

Option 2 is going Modular. For this route, you must first obtain a JAA PPL, then study and get passes in all 14 ATPL theory exams. These can be done via distance learning courses with schools such as Bristol.gs (http://www.bristol.gs) or GTS. (http://www.gtserv.co.uk) At this point, all your theory is basically done. What's left is the flying.
Following that you must do the CPL and IR (it does not matter in which order). There are various schools which can train you for the CPL and IR around Europe, and even in the USA (but be careful). Renowned schools for CPL/IR in Europe include (others that I haven't yet mentioned):

United Kingdom
Stapleford Flight Centre (http://www.flysfc.com)
Bristol Flying Centre (http://www.b-f-c.co.uk)

Spain
Aerofan (http://www.aerofanfto.com)
Aeromadrid (http://www.aeromadrid.com)

Greece
Egnatia Aviation (http://www.egnatia-aviation.com)

USA
Orlando Flight Training (http://www.flyoft.com)


Of course, there are loads of other schools around, but these are the well-renowned ones.


I hope that helps. Feel free to ask any more questions.

aircockroaches

[BlueRobin]

I'm afraid the exam questions are not in clear English. My first language is English and I have trouble sometimes! I know guys on our course from Italy and the Faroes so I have great admiration for their efforts.

The following is biased. If you were going to describe my flight school (http://www.flyaft.com) as such "the purpose of the atpl courses is to pass the exam and not to have aeronautical culture", by which then I could go along with that.

Depends what you mean by "aeronautical culture"? Being keen on aircraft is good thing, but taking a bit too superior, perhaps aloof, attitude could be a bad thing.

[D'vay]

and where the purpose of the atpl courses is to pass the exam and not to have aeronautical culture

What in the sam hill do you mean by that?

Aeronautical culture (as i interpret it) is great, if you mean people and ettiquite.

If you mean company culture, it's good to understand so that you end flying somewhere where you will be happy and fit in.

if you mean blame culture, it's good to understand and avoid

infact, i'll go as far as saying that understanding aeronautical culture will save your life one day!

d'vay

[normann]

hello sorry for my english .i m french.

it has a difference about the atpl level in europe .
in uk it is 650 hours for the classroom for 6 months in france it is 1500 hours for 12 months .
the french atpl s books and courses are more based on maths and physics more than the other european country . try to have a look on the french manual of " mermoz institute in paris " and make a comparaison with jeppesen or oxford : they are more easier to understand for all the 14 subjects than the french manual.

the purpose of the atpl courses in france is not to help you to pass the exam and to have it .but it is to prepare you to have aeronautical background .you will learn more than the jaa requirements and it is very difficult to learn what will help you exactly for the exam.
i give you an example ..in a french institute called " creufop in the south of france they have studied more than 50 hours on the engine .in the exam it has 3 questions only for the engines.they never teach you the essential .i need only to find a atpl institute in europe who will tech me the essential for the exam and not more.
if someone can help me ..thank you and sorry for my english

[D'vay]

In that case, use Bristol groundschool, if you ask them nicely I'm sure they'll post the groundschool notes to france whence you could study there, london met and glasgow also do good courses I am told.

[potkettleblack]

I heard through the grapevine that the learning objectives are in the process of changing. I am not sure when they will come into force but I believe a lot of the duplication across the subjects has been or will be removed. I suggest you give someone like Alex at BGS a call and put the question to him. It might also help you plan when you embark on the study for the exams and will make sure that you don't waste any time studying anything unnecessary.

[dom462]

I might have to do my training and studies part-time, starting with my PPL. In order speed things up a bit can I do my ATPL ground school at the same time as my PPL, as long as I get my PPL before I take the ATPL exams?

[whiskey1]

Aircockroaches,
You forgot one Integrated provider and they don't cost loads of money.
WA Aviation College
http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au/
Fee is shown on the website. Compares very favorably with Modular.

DOM462
You MUST have a PPL licence (any ICAO) before you may commence training for the ATPL exams. Your training provider (School) should take a copy of your licence before allowing you to enroll.

W1

[dom462]

DOM462
You MUST have a PPL licence (any ICAO) before you may commence training for the ATPL exams. Your training provider (School) should take a copy of your licence before allowing you to enroll.

W1

Thanks. I guess there is no harm in getting some atpl books off ebay or somewhere and study independently while I am doing my PPL and before I enroll.

[link_142]

Hi

Ive searched for the particular answer im looking for already on threads but havent found one, can anyone from their own opinion recommend which FTO out of the two will be better for full-time GS? I know oxford charge £4,000, couldnt find out the price of cabair on website, anyone know?

The reason im doing the GS first is purely because i cant at the moment afford the Oxford APP, i havent asked oxford yet, but will it be possible to join the APP after i have my groundschool and skip that part of the training once i have the £££?

All help appreciated, thanks

[BlueRobin]

I have a ex-Oxford classmate who thinks Atlantic Flight Training (Coventry) is better. Most seem to get very good pass rates. :p

[ATPLTrainee]

From my contract on the cabair integrated course i'm pretty sure the groundschool was about the same price, circa £4k but i'd ring them to find out, having done it i'd say it was very good as long as your willing to put the work in. :ok:

[Cyclone733]

Went through Cabair ground school last year. At the time it was very good, most people in the class got first time passes in all subjects. However the course books are not the greatest, so I'm not sure the distance learning is the best available. As a full time course, I would recommend it though as the hand outs and ground school instructors are very good on the whole.

Hope this is of some help.

Merry Christmas All

[BlueRobin]

Yes, I agree!

Except for those noisy Italians at the back who are very disruptive :p

[norton2005]

unfortunately if you do your groundschool you probably will not want to do the APP course. this is because OAT do not offer any alterations to the course whether it be PPL or groundschool that you have, they want all their money for all the course. so if you do your groundschool elsewhere, your option would only be to pay for it all over again at OAT which is pretty pointless. you could however enroll on their waypoint modular programme.

as for cabair, dont't know what their situation is regarding the groundschool but i know if you have a PPL they will give you the discounted version for however many hours you have already done on the price. i think they allow upto 90 hours of cashback if already done. above 90 hours i think they won't even accept you. but not entirely sure on that last point.

[dartagnan]

bristol.GS, stay at home, save LOT OF money, and score 10% higher than the national average.

why do you want less for more???

[hpcock]

Try CATS, very good pass rate - I was there some time ago. At the time it had the highest pass rate in the country (CAA Verified) About 95% of my class passed everything 1st time.

At the end of the day, we're all fighting for the same thing, doing the same course, same exams & the same job.

Choose a school that suits you.

All the best
HPC

[acuba 290]

bristol.GS, stay at home, save LOT OF money, and score 10% higher than the national average.

why do you want less for more???

DL is not for everybody and it takes too long time...
OAT takes only 22+3 weeks

[dartagnan]

no it doesn't, if you study 6-8 hours a day at home like crazy, you can finish all your 14 papers in 6-7 months and save lot of money.

call Bristol.GS and see with them.Airlines recommend Bristol.GS and see them as the TOP1 school worldwide.:ok:

[BlueRobin]

Are you superhuman? You claim to be so := ;)

I contend it would be very difficult for anyone except the mad or extemely motivated to sustain their self for that period home-working every day.

DL largely suits those who have other commitments, usually employment.

[hpcock]

Dartagnan,

More to the point do you work for BGS? You do sound awfully like a rather crappy junior working in their marketing dept. :yuk:

I have never heard of any airline recommend them or take pilots purely on the basis that they came from Bristol. Can you clarify how many airlines are currently sending their pilots to BGS?

I don't think acuba290 makes a point that hasn't been heard before. Infact, it's quite a normal concern for a number of people. On the flip side BlueRobin also makes a perfectly valid point. As you can see there will always be horses for courses

HPC

[dartagnan]

regrettably I am not a crappy junior working in one of the best school in UK.

Airlines are more and more aware of the quality that Bristol.GS provides, I can tell you that being an ex-student of Bristol, it is a big plus during selection process.
I do not say that Oxford is bad, I don't know Oxford, I can not judge( I have eared only good things about their grounschool too) , but Bristol has an excellent reputation in the airline industry so consider their offer even if it is a residential course.(you will save big money for your MCC!!)

I have been surprised when an airline did some very good comments on them.


to all of you::ok:

[mad_jock]

nah I think dart has fallen into the usual love affair that occurs with various schools after passing, I presume it's Alex's customer care which causes most of it. There really isn't much difference in the quality of the notes these days and most schools will do the job. The days of everyone wanting the 100 sheets of feedback questions from OAT are gone.

Personally I went to OAT DL and payed my money and got the job done with minimum fuss. And in those days there was a distinct advantage in going to OAT due to the cadets being organised to collect feedback. The volume of feedback was miles ahead of anyone else's. In fact their was a black market in feedback questions from OAT. I still think it has an advantage in this area.

Just to make sure though. Understand that nobody gives a toss about where and how you completed your theory exams or for that matter what mark you got for them. Passing with a 76% average or a 98% average is purely a personal self satisfaction pat on the back.

[hpcock]

LOL LOL

Hey dartagnan

You are a funny bloke......aren't you. Are you sure you're not on BGS's payroll?

If you bothered to read my initial post on this thread, you will notice that I did all my stuff at CATS & not Oxford. However, I would rate OATS head & shoulders above BGS. I have a full set of notes from all 3 schools & would say that BGS are some considerable way behind the other schools in terms of learning & teaching materials.

In a nutshell have a good read of mad_jock's mail, its sums it up quite nicely.

HPC

[boogie-nicey]

I would disagree. BGS instructors are no worse than anyone else, they have a wealth of experience, dedication and time for their students. In fact my personal opinion rates them highest.

The bad experience I had at OAT whilst literally begging them to take me onto their course was disgusting. They couldn't even spare the time to talk to me properly on the phone. Even requesting payment details was a chore and when I finally got an application to join the wretched OAT DL course it was like a mortgage application. Screw them ....

BGS however were ready to help straight of the bat not just initially but everytime I contacted them. They genuinely tried to help even when I'd say "no problem I'll look it up in the course notes", they still offered to explain it further so that there'd be no doubt.

Excellent job BGS and I'd say OAT are too unstable, it's either good or very poor, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground for them, but do I care they can go to .....

[Vone Rotate]

I woud say a point to consider is OAT 80% pass rate for the DL course.
Yes the CAA is 75% so if you did not get oxfords 80% you would still get a pass for your ATPL theory but oxford would not let you enter onto there 'Waypoint' modular course.

As with all modular training it goes in you favour to do all your training with one FTO. This is because from what I can gather it gives the airlines an indecation the the continuity of the training you have had.
Again not saying you wont get a job if you do each part with a different FTO but my view is do what ever you can to make your self more appealing to airlines after all, we all know they prefer our integrated friends!!

For this reason I have chose Cabair so I dont end up getting stuck and having to change FTO's. Once again hourses for courses!!

[mad_jock]

hpcock please don't assume that I was saying OAT is better than BGS.

Because its not, and neither is BGS better than OAT.

My feeling is they actually suits different sides of the market.

From what I have seen Alex is a master at smoothing the way for people who need poked in the right direction when it comes to relearning how to learn. The BGS notes would infurate me with the amount of waffle around a technical point ie 100 words and a figure, when 4 words and a figure with a bit of maths and a couple of arrows would do.

Some people can't get there heads around the technical manual style of OAT notes. It suited me to be given the books then left alone to my own devices. All the notes are written in a style which I was very used to and found easy to learn.

So in summary I think BGS would suit 80% of the market and OAT would suit 80% of the market you will note that for 60% of the market it really doesn't matter which school you go to. For that 60% the choice really comes down to which one is cheaper when you take into account HOTAC and living expenses.

[dartagnan]

yes, Alex take care of us,and this is why so many students chose Bristol.
when I studied 2-5 hours a day at home, I need a school to understand my needs.(now I sound like I am selling a product again!!sorry these are sentences I have learned during my english lessons)

I am not on the bristol payroll( I would like to be), and I have nothing to do with Bristol.gs, but sometimes I hear some guys asking me if Bristol is good. I tell them they will have to work hard everyday, and commit for 7 months(that's the secret:oh:).
If they can do that, they will save lot of money.the school is good if you are ready to study. It is more about you than about the school.

I don't say other school are bad, they suit for a different mentality. Some guys still need an instructor in front of them and can not study by themselves for hours.
Regarding the printing material, I like the one of Oxford and I liked their weather DVD, the binders of Bristol are good but less detailed.

accommodation at Oxford is more expensive as you have to spend 4 weeks in these beautiful towns.
for me, it was lot of fun ,and the course was very interesting and enjoyable (the brushing course is very intense, at this time, we didn't have online database only feedback questions to keep us busy until 1 am...)

I would be interested by the number of students who sign with Bristol DL or Oxford and give up.

I don't know what is this story about modular vs Integrated, Bristol is a JAA school recognized by non UK countries.I think they work with several aviation schools in europe.

bristol or Oxford, chose what you want, but please consider their DL course if you are short of cash.

[Cyclone733]

Which ever TO you chose, try to get a shifty at the Oxford Met CD-Rom. Raised my pre exam marks from mid 70s ie a possible fail to the high 80s. Met seems to have the broadest range of material in it and not all of it makes a great deal of sense with out animations.

[davey147]

Guys, if you want DL ATPLS do not go with Bristol.gs they are too expensive.

Oxford now charge £2,540 (including CAA Fees) People always go on about how expensive it is to stay in Oxford well it costs £100 per week (in the airport) that comes to a total of less than £3,000!!!!

Bristol charge a massive £2,740 (Including CAA Fees) plus approx £25-40 per night B&B. Basically including accomodation the whole process is more than £3,300!!!!

Are Bristol that good, to warrent paying extra on the course. Paying high rates for accomodation and probably having to pay for Internet access too which is free at Oxford.

Maybe Ive got something wrong here, please correct me if I have. Im not studying at either, im still in the process of choosing which school to go to.

[mcgoo]

davey147 that has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen on here, you admit you have no experience of either school yet advise people not to go to bristol because of £300 difference in your own estimated figures, get real.

[davey147]

davey147 that has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen on here, you admit you have no experience of either school yet advise people not to go to bristol because of £300 difference in your own estimated figures, get real.

Its not an estimated figure, its published on their websites. Look for yourself.

I think im going to go with the cheapest, theres also the advantage of not having to travel to take the exams either.

[mcgoo]

I'm aware of the prices, my point is you have just advised everyone not to go to Bristol because it is £200 more than Oxford, in the big scheme of things you will spend a minimum of £30,000 getting a frozen ATPL, so that £200 is less than 1% of the total spend, I personally have seen a lot of Oxford students at BGS having transferred and have heard many gripes about OAT so for you to "advise" anybody not to go to Bristol having no experience of ATPL study or either school beggars belief, your only argument being £200 difference in course prices!

[Turbine King]

While you debate it over

The smart ones go to CATS who've introduced a £1000 ATPL whom my brother has just joined.

Since I did the course it looks so good but that then is looking back with exams etc under my belt

I'll be redoing it online through my brother so will keep u posted

James

[davey147]

Just looked at CATS they look quite good too.

£200 is a lot of money to me, and it will be to most self funded students (those who dont have their family pay for them) so if I can save £200 I will.

[expedite08]

Suggest you all take a look a Ground Training Services GTS based in Bournemouth. Excellent instructors and very thourough notes. A little too much possibly on the notes side of things, but a very good refrence system all the same. Suppliment this with BGS online Q bank and your laughing!

[MIKECR]

All you need is a half decent question bank, the rest doesnt make much odds.

[captain_rossco]

Its nice to see everyone supporting the schools they came from and may attend.

Davey 147 is certainly getting it for the comments about Bristol! must say its a liitle deserved given the total proportional cost of training and the fact that BGS have a fantastic reputation (as do many others). Come on Davey my friend you said 'everyone keeps saying how expensive oxford is....' when i do believe you yourself referenced oxfords relative 'expense' in the modular/integrated debate? You have some other good posts so no one will be holding it against you though buddy. I know that I'm making similar decisions to many others at this early stage of my flight training, and think that it would be helpful to anyone using pprune as a tool for training options to be given advice on previous experiences and perhaps not just outright 'words of wisdom' due to ATPL flight school cost? (especially when its a matter of a few bob, yes £200 is alot but not in context).

This is not a dig in anyway, but more just a little nudge in the direction of the 'useful info' forum rather than the 'i once saw a website' forum.

Best Regards

Rossco
:8

[will fly for food 06]

Has anyone used the ground school at bournmouth through cabair?

[nastyevil110]

Hi all,

I want to do the atpl i have just finished ppl, can i jump straight away to atpl(that covers the cpl as well) or i have to do cpl theory before i do the atpl. please reply.

thanks.

[Whirlygig]

You can go straight to ATPL.

Cheers

Whirls

[Phenom100]

Come on, their must be someone on here who is starting at London Met in March???

[Brian304]

hi everyone

Just wanted some advice on the start of the ATPL in march, as I'm considering two schools but still cannot make my mind up. Well the cabair course is only £2250 in comparison to the £4000 odd in oxford, but the start date for cabair is 5th and will be abit tight for me to finish my study in that time, but the oxford start date on 25th will be the best dae and give me a few days off aswell. So just wondered if anyone had much experience with these two schools undergoing the ATPL? and which one would you all prefer.

Thanks all

Brian304:ok:

[EpsilonVaz]

To be honest, I'd wouldn't recommend either.

In my honest opinion I would choose CATs (http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/)

or if not, then Bristol (http://www.bristol.gs)

[combineharvester]

Brian304,

It's very rare to find someone that has done their ATPL theory at more than one training provider!! Especially on a full time course. My advice is to visit both (or any of the schools mentioned above), talk to current students and see what the atmosphere of each place is like. What suits one person may not suit another. A big consideration for me when i did mine was the commute as i was not in a position at the time to afford to stay on site. In the event i ended up doing Distance Learning anyway!

Hope this helps

ch

[PlaneHomerS]

Personally i am going to go with Bristol.gs (when the time comes) as i have only heard good things about them but i have a m8 who is using the CATS notes and they seem to be pretty good too.

Oxford, Cabair - :=

[Brian304]

Though Bristol GS and CATs are two very good schools, but still I am looking for a full RESIDENTIAL course and not distance learning course. But I have just seen that CATs is currently waiting for approval of there residentil course, so I think that is a good approach for them. But still I am looking for past experiences from a student from each school to give me their advice. But I am currently on the modular program with cabair, but the timing for me isn't as good as oxford, so I'm basically trying to balance the both. I know that there are many good schools out there like GCNS e.t.c but they do not start in march, I am aiming to start in march so that I have enough time to finish and study another masters degree, thats where the rush is.

BRI :ok:

[geraldn]

Did all my training at Oxford, theory and flight training was top notch, and the instructors and staff where very helpful. One thing you should keep in mind is that OAT is also an integrated school, so obviously as a MOD student you do feel slightly sidelined and need to use your own initiative on certain matters since you are not held by the hand(no offence to integrated guys). having said that you are paying much less and its a good experience for character building.

[ATPLTrainee]

I´m doing an integrated ATPL course with Cabair and i found the groundschool was excellent and you´ll see similar reflections on that point of view on the Cabair topic. Best option is really to check both out, but if starting 20 days earlier saves you 1500quid then its worth thinking about it carefully.

[Cyclone733]

I did my ground school with Cabair last year, the ground school was very good. With the money you save you could sign up for the Bristol question bank and grab a copy of the Oxford Met CD, both really useful. I ended up with good first time passes, as did almost all of my course

[tom775257]

Is there a way to compare pass rates? I heard a word of mouth rumour about one of the listed school's pass rates being quite poor in comparison to the other ATPL theory schools in the UK. I trained at ATA, Coventry (long since gone) - an excellent school, such a shame it ceased to exist.
I'm in agreement with "combineharvester," most people have experience of one school only so I guess advice is generally going to be very subjective.
Good luck!

[EpsilonVaz]

Though Bristol GS and CATs are two very good schools, but still I am looking for a full RESIDENTIAL course and not distance learning course. But I have just seen that CATs is currently waiting for approval of there residentil course, so I think that is a good approach for them.

Hi there, as far as I know CATs has been running residential courses for some time, I know a few students that have been through the course and said it has been top notch. At the moment I am doing the CATs Residential Groundschool at Egnatia Aviation in Greece. I have to say the study guides are clear and easy to follow and the CATs instructors really know their stuff, ontop of that, they also really know how to teach which I feel has helped me achive high grades in my first module.

[n90bar]

Would have to recommend Oxford - just received my Jar results for the first 7 ATPL exams I've studied in 13 weeks - 96% pass overall. Our class average was 93 or 94% so good all round!!

[SingSong]

If you want my opinion, not sure you do :D, Find schools near to you, (ones you could travel to each day assuming you don't want to add the cost of accommodation) go take a look get to know the people who work there and choose one YOU like, when push comes to shove the exam is down to you, so its far better for you to get the instructing in an institute you'll be happy with.

Most of the GS mentioned in this thread are good. Personally I'd choose AFT, www.flyaft.com , but it's because i know how good the product is first hand. and thats what everyone will tell you, the school they went to, or their friend went to.

You need to visit, talk to and get to know each school you're considering. Its the only way to really go about it.

[dom462]

I'm a bit confused about the structure of the DL courses for each school.

Bristol and Oxford divide the 14 subjects into two modules and have a two week revision course after each module followed by exams. Cranfield divide it up into three modules and have a one week revision course after each module followed by exams.

Is there a difference in the quality between the two structures?

Personally, I would prefer Cranfield as there is less content to revise for each block of exams and it would also be easier for me to take time off work too.

[BigAl's]

Greetings people,

does anyone have any experience of BCFT Ground school via DL?

Ta muchly,

Bigal

[Go_Detent]

Hi BigAl

I actually attended the full time ATPL groundschool at BCFT and although not exactly what you're looking at, found the quality of instruction and facilities top rate. I know of several peeple who completed their studies via BCFT's DL course and they were equally impressed at how the course was structured, all passing most if not every exam at the first attempt with high overall average grades. Please PM me if you'd like some more inside info.

GD.

[Phenom100]

Brian,

Have you considerder London Met, they have a course starting on March 13th, i have just signed up, I have heard good reorts from past students.

If you need more info let me know.

B regards

Dan

[discovery2]

hi ya ach im was wondering if you could let me know how ure doing now ,im 33 and would be really interseted to see what your experience has been cheers

[Brian304]

Dear all

I am planning to either enter onto the ATPL theory in cabair next week or go onto the course in Oxford on the 25th, though there is a big price difference. But i'm just looking on the quality of the teaching, notes and pass rates. I would also like to hear the opinions of current students.

Regards

Brian304:ok:

[wbryce]

Hello Brian,
If your talking about Cabair Modular ATPL theory in house vs OATs ATPL theory in house, the Cabair course is £2600 while the OAT course is £4100. EPTA (Cabair Bournemouth) have a great reputation and so do OAT. At the end of the day whether you goto Cabair or Oxford, it still requires your effort to pass. Both schools have great instructors and good notes so you wont be hard done by either of them tbh.
I start the ATPL theory with Cabair on their April course...

[Alex 009]

The old Cabair, OAT debate. I am very much interested in this one as me and two others are looking at going to either one in January next year for the full time ground school. Would not be staying in halls at OAT...probably look for a furnished flat or house. Pros and cons of both would be great.
Cheers,
Alex

[Bandit650]

Honestly guys...OAT,CabAir, Bristol etc etc...they're all very reputable. I'm with OAT and yes I have discovered *some* differences in how they go about Distance Learning compared to BGS (mate of mine is with BGS and have seen the material etc)..but at the end of the day is down to you (as wbryce (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=78456) says) you will not be disadvataged choosing any one of the reputables over another, and you are by far the biggest variable determining success/failure..dont get hung up on school selection - just avoid paying more than you need to, sign up, and get crackin'!!!

sorry for the pseudo lecture! - just putting fwd my tuppence. I started to analyse the choices before signing up and have concluded it was waste of valuable time.

[Alex 009]

Well said there. At the end of the day they all offer the same JAA ATPL at the end.

[wbryce]

A good point to take into consideration though is you pay the course fees, you still have to pay your examination fees at £60 per paper...which is atleast £840 for first attempt on all papers.

You have living/accomodation fees for 6-8 months which can cost just the same as the course itself, the house i'm looking to rent a room in costs £360pm plus an extra £200 for my own food/living etc...totaling to £2520 over 7 months, so by using my example then my additional costs at base line are £3360.

Let us know what you decide.

[Brian304]

Well i've decided on cabair as its only £2250 which I think is quite good, plus I did my PPL with them, so by staying with one school on my opinion is an advantage. Also the accomodation is £100 a week plus food, thats in some kind of furnished house. Then plus the £60 each CAA test = £840. Which leads to £5890 (excluding food and variables), which I think is an ok price in comparison to OAT. Afterall it is just a school afterall, you still all just come out with an ATPL.

Thanks anyway everyone

Brian304:ok:

[wbryce]

Sensible choice imo!

Are you starting on the March course or April course? if so, ill see you there! :ok:

[Brian304]

Hey... well i'm starting on monday which is the march session. Now its busy busy for me to pack up. Hope to see you there...

Brian304:ok:

[Adj]

Hi
Whichever school is chosen is upto financial contrictions and personal choice. I know that the MAJORITY of students at the integrated schools use BGS online for revision. I think this is £50 for 3 months and gives you access to their database. Since this came out i have seen the marks rise up that extra notch so most people now are averaging high 90's.
A friend of mine recently averaged 99.7% in Phase 2 of groundschool so that formula must be working!
Anyway whatever suits your circumstances best

adj

[Greg2041]

Hi, I'm a new forum member so bear with me as I am exploring a career in flying. The ATPL exams seem to me to be the biggest hurdle to overcome so is it possible to get CAA past papers? I know others are available but there is no substitute for the real thing. Secondly, how many questions does each exam contain and how long do you have to complete it. A very happy Easter to all - Greg

[S5-Vinc]

Can anyone explain how the distance study goes? DO you have any contact and feedback from any instructor (online maybe)?

Or do you just get the material and then you have to figure it out all by yourself?



Can anyone recommend any ATPL ground school in Spain? I would really need some good tutoring lessons.

Any advice?