Rotary or Fixed wing................?

[rock_dove]

hi folks, ive got another thread on here about re-joining RAF as NCA, but ive got a question which is kind of a variation on the theme, and one which may start a bunfight, but im interested to hear the gen from both sides.
is Rotary crewman/woman (dont want to upset anymore people than i have to!!) training more difficult,ie, better students streamed at course end, than the fixed wing crewman/woman stream. I only ask because from what i have seen so far it seems that once on the rotary stream you spend approx double time training at shawbury (hope thats correct?!) than the fixed wing stream at cranwell (again, please be gentle if im wrong!)
please, gen me up!!:confused: :)

[Joe Black]

You are correct - the fixed wing guys spend very little time at Cranwell prior to the OCU and recieve thier flying brevets quicker.(£££££)When I went through Cranwell I had a few close mates, both rotary and fixed, and to be honest any of the Crewman courses looked pretty simple. When you compare it to the AEOp cse, it's like Junior school...but heh we all get paid the same! Push for fixed wing!:8

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Hey Joe,

Have you actually done either of the fixed or rotary wing courses.........thought not......chiseler:rolleyes:

Ask yourself a simple question........why do no serving guys want to be AEOP's, why are we now all NCA and why will all new entrants have to suffer the uncertainty of being selected for a life in a smartie tube:p

Just another thought..........can anyone recall the last time a fully established ALM or Eng volunteerd for a crossover to AEOP or if under the new NCA terms if anyone is considering that sort of move........yeah right:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Joe Black]

Listen mate, I'm not trying to knock the loadies - just a friendly bit of banter. However if you honestly believe that training to be an AEOp and ALM is of equal difficulty then fair enough. Having witnessed some of the Cranwell Rotary exams I know for a fact they are FAR easier than any AEOp ones. All I'm saying is that to be an AEOp, you require a higher level of aptitude than that of a butty chucker.

[nutmeg]

Okay, I'm going to bite!!! There is much more to heli crewman training than a few 'minor' exams at Cranwell. Furthermore, aptitude is really tested at DHFS, until then it is impossible in some respects to test the SA, Spatial appreciation, capacity of thought and ability to cope with multiple airborne mission management inputs. So, if your opinion is based on what you saw at Cranwell, then you need to get out more. As an aside, what did you apply for originally Mr Black (if that's your real name!!!)? ABIW, should be days to do for you on your first trip to the sandpit!!!! Trust the 2 cans are still cold!

[Joe Black]

Nutmeg, although it may well surprise you I actually did apply for AEOp as my primary choice. I don't feel there's any need for you to bite quite so hard! There's always going to be this friendly rivalry between the butty chuckers and the kipper fleet boys/girls. I think you'll also find that we spend a considerable period of the year in the sandpit. What platform do you operate from!?!?:O

[Training Risky]

Good cockfight going here, but....

Please stop the constant inclusion of 'woman' or 'girls' after using the term 'crewman' or the like. What are we meant to do with the million publications out there in Forces Land if this stupid trend continues? Edit every page to make sure that all references to personnel are gender friendly?

Let's just take it as read that all serving birds (I mean women) are included when we refer to manpower, crewman, airmen etc. At the end of the day they are honorary men!

And to get back to the point, I'd like to see some lardy kipper wetman/bird try kneeling on the deck of a Griffin/Chinook, voice marshalling into a confined area with the disc only feet away from the trees...:{

Stick to your doughnuts and curries boys.

[Joe Black]

You've just singled out another very good reason in becoming an AEOp..the food! I must be blind because I'm sure I've seen a large number of obese loadies, must get my eyes tested.
You are totally correct and I'm sure you would find it extremely easy to operate the wide variety of Kit on the Nimrod and you'd adapt very well to the multi - crew environment.
I think the reason the majority of the AEOps who opt to go loadie in the latter years is purely for the chill out factor,ie no tactics involved, no great understanding of intelligence required. So I take my hat off to them..might even take the easier option myself one day. Then I can be a "hero" hanging out a helo with a mini-gun........that's what you all do isn't it!?!?:ok:

[rock_dove]

whoah! looks like ive opened a can of worms here guys, albeit not the can i was expecting! im quite sure each trade has its own merits and pitfalls, and to be honest would be more than grateful if the nice people at cranwell would consider me for either job! Also to address the point by Mr Risky, i could not agree more, i think its a ridiculous state of affairs, having to correct established abbreviations just so our mammaried comrades dont feel left out, but bear in mind, this is a day and age where people are demanding that girls should be able to join the BOY Scouts!

anyway, enough rambling, back to my point.
Are the rotary stream wsop crewmen the best in class up to the day of streaming? I only ask because ideally (if i am lucky enough to get to wsop training!) i would prefer rotary crewman, but again, still be grateful for fixed wing or aeop type job!
FAO Joe:
Sorry to say the mini-gun does sound quite appealing! Maybe i should be a rockape instead.........................................!!!:} ;) (NO!)

[serf]

Surely the training is only a couple of weeks - loadmaster=load pax, bergans and the like, and under the supervision of an adult front seater.

[rock_dove]

that simple eh!? (me no fink so!!):hmm:

[lurkposition]

In many years of training rotary guys and girls the AEOp guys seemed to struggle most when getting to grips with operating as a helicopter crewman. We often had to teach airmanship from very basic principles. We found that ALMs became proficient at their task much sooner.
It's possible that AEOps early training does not cover as much aircraft operation and airmanship as the ALM stream.
Having recently departed from the forces maybe the advent of streamless NCA may address this imbalance.

[Suckmabobby]

I think you're missing the point fellas!

Two NCA in a bar talking to a woman. She asks what they do for a living. One says he's a chinook/merlin/puma loadie/SAR winchman. The other explains that he sits in the back of of a vomit comet all day...radar..sonar bouys..blah blah...submarines that don't exist....blah blah blah.

Who's gonna get laid?

I rest my case.. ....geeks!

Go on bite.:ok:

[Hoop Stress]

Rock Dove. I suggest you go for the job you want to do and not worry about which training course is the easiest or shortest.

Each NCA specialisation has its pros and cons; you need to pick the one that you would envisage giving you the most enjoyment and job satisfaction over the next 12 years or so, and go all out to get it.

Good luck.:ok:

Sigma, sub-theta.

[k1rb5]

It appears that the streaming of NCA is not purely dependant on performance in exams. I'm lead to believe that the younger/less mature guys (lets not go there!) are streamed to AEOp because they would benefit from having a big crew to hold their hand. Read into that what you like Joe Black!!

[shandyman]

Oi, k1rb5, I went through AAITC with you and you know that your post 'aint so. One of the loadies on our course now lives next door to me. He was then the most immature and still is the most immature . . . Pretty much all of the AEOps were of the more 'mature 'variety whilst most of the Loadies were below 22yrs old. Think before you write my friend. P.S. How's the new wee one?

[Spurlash2]

It's no good, a bottle of finest NZ Sauvignon Blanc and I have to respond.
To all the baiters (yes, I have bit), (and by-the-way, JB, check spelling of receive, and their, in your post no 2) there are many 'butty chuckers' who happen to be radar qualified, active sonar qualified, passive sonar qualified, ISTAR ticks up the ying-yang, SAR qualified and a little bit of bergan throwing quals just for good measure.
Rock Dove - If you have the desire to achieve you will.
Every day is progress.
Time for bed, said Zebedee:ok:

[FireAxe]

Yes, the Vomit Comet I am sure is a rewarding job,(pingers excluded, no subs in desert!!!) sitting up there at FL nosebleed, watching it all on tv eating through the remains of the defence budget.
However if you really want to be involved at the sharp end, why not fly at 50ft, 150kts with some guys with blanked out eyes, to drop in for a bit of late night 'door knocking', with fair chance of a bit of action along the way then go for rotary.
You may not be kicking down doors yourself but it is the closest thing to it in the NCA world! You can be a part of it or sit there and watch it pass you by!!!!

Nuff said.

[ratty1]

Yes, the Vomit Comet I am sure is a rewarding job,(pingers excluded, no subs in desert!!!) sitting up there at FL nosebleed, watching it all on tv eating through the remains of the defence budget.
However if you really want to be involved at the sharp end, why not fly at 50ft, 150kts with some guys with blanked out eyes, to drop in for a bit of late night 'door knocking', with fair chance of a bit of action along the way then go for rotary.
You may not be kicking down doors yourself but it is the closest thing to it in the NCA world! You can be a part of it or sit there and watch it pass you by!!!!

Nuff said.

So is it possible to go staright to the Special Forces helicopters as a crewman?

[markerboy]

At the risk of pushing the boundaries, the vomet comet in an essential part of most operations throughout the world. You neaderthals need to look past your cold war beer bellies and realise that the kipper fleet is evolving all the time. No longer is it sub hunting and home for another curry. If this were the case, then why is it we've been packing our buckets and spades, for the past few years.

To get back to the real conversation, the streaming process takes into account all the exams taken, the dom flights, your character and other factors, before deciding which discipline you're most suitable. Then, of course, we are all bound by the RAF and our posting peeps will then allocate the requisite numbers to each specialisation. It may pan out that there arren't any fixed/rotary slots when it's time for streaming.

End rant

[k1rb5]

Shandyman. Little Miss K is very well thanks.

I am refering to the streaming process now, not XXX years ago when us olduns went thru. sorry if I confused you matey. That gen was from one of the horses mouths at the school. In the old days Doris probably had different ideas.

Hope you're well.

K1rb5

[PTC REMF]

So is it possible to go staright to the Special Forces helicopters as a crewman?


Yes, it is possible.

[NutLoose]

Having worked both on Helicopter and VC10's in the RAF I was suprised when one of our EX Loadmasters turned up on the VC10......... In his service on Helicopters he was responsible for a fair bit and assisted in Navigating etc amongst other things................ On the VC10 they were not even allowed to turn on Aircraft power.................... says something

[PTC REMF]

Having worked both on Helicopter and VC10's in the RAF I was suprised when one of our EX Loadmasters turned up on the VC10......... In his service on Helicopters he was responsible for a fair bit and assisted in Navigating etc amongst other things................ On the VC10 they were not even allowed to turn on Aircraft power.................... says something


Chances are he's either fed up with amount of time/conditions away, or he's unfit flying on SH.( neck/back etc).

[ratty1]

Yes, it is possible.

Is that straight from streaming at Cranwell or from Shawbury, and which ones would you goto?

[PTC REMF]

Is that straight from streaming at Cranwell or from Shawbury, and which ones would you goto?

Straight from the Chinook OCF. Not sure about the Puma. OCF is post Cranwell and Shawbury.