Here's what the Airlines really want!!!!!!!

[peoplespoet]

Pruners,
I have a friend who is a civilian CPL holder with 500hrs fixed wing experince, he also has an instructor rating. He is finding it difficult to get notification of civilian companies recruiting for pilots with his experience.

Anyone know of companies recruiting?

Cheers in advance

PP

[airborne_artist]

Jenvey, Mike wrote:

Single engine or M/E?? Either way, without a CPL

RTFQ - a civilian CPL holder :p

Is there any other sort of CPL than a civilian one??

[BOAC]

PP - has he registered with the recruiting agencies?

[Han 1st Solo]

Has your friend got an instrument rating? If not thats why he has had no response from the airlines. Without an IR the only realistic employment opportunities are instructing or glider tug pilot.

Regards,

Han.

[peoplespoet]

Yes he has ME and IR, it just seems that with only 500 hrs interest appears to be low.

PP

[Han 1st Solo]

Suggest that being the case that he just keeps building his hours through instructing, once he hits the 1000 hour mark the calls will start to come. They did with me. He just needs to be patient and keep applying.

Regards,

Han.

[cheevere]

for all the bull going on this site, here's a survey that outlines what the airlines really require for FOs. age, knowledge etc are discussed. This will aid anyone seeking training as it seems more about the right type of person than ur type of training that you did. have a look anyways and let me know what u think.
wasteful feedback need not apply
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm

[RVR800]

So to summarize you need to be under 30 and loaded, so that in addition to the frozen ATPL course, you can afford to fork out for a type rating. You need flying aptitude greater than that required for the CPL as well being good looking and having an understanding of your place on the flight deck (broke(n))

Cue A320rider.....

[EGBKFLYER]

mmmm.

Let's remember this was a fairly small survey (seven operators). There are a number of general things that don't ring true to me, which is probably due to the sample size and make-up.

Flyingbug - where and how a licence is obtained is important for a number of operators unfortunately.

I'd like to hear those with direct recruitment experience (Scroggs?) give their verdict on these results - IMO they are interesting but not as significant as you suggest Cheevere.

[clarityinthemurk]

So it's true.......it's really about cheque-book employment! Or, the classic something for nothing. Fork out for your PPL/Hour-building/CPL/ME/IR/MCC/JET SIM/Type Rating, and we might consider whether you have a suitable personality for the job!

This is an interesting review, but would you expect employers to take any different view? Ask any employers in any industry what they want from new hires and you'll likely get – 20-30 years of age, educated, skills qualified, team player, leadership potential. It's a bit like asking which I would prefer for FREE – a new Skoda or a new BMW 5 Series – no contest! In others words, surveys such as this across many sectors will always provide results most favourable to the group being interviewed.

One thing that might be worth further elaboration is the supposed “personality” types desired. Which I might suggest will usually reflect the predominant types already in situ in the organisation. Let me throw one out.......passive, subserviant, sycophantile, performing, smiley, happy. But I'm not biased, am I? :)

[LD Max]

So does this mean if you're over 30 don't bother trying to become an airline pilot?
I'm 42 and when I started my training - just prior to 911, I was 38. Now fully qualified and still unable to get hired, I can see why. But when I started I was firmly assured by Oxford that age was not a barrier! Maturity and experience were well sought after, I was told.
So it was all "bull" was it? Should I go and get a job at Tesco's then?
I wonder how this will stand up after October 2006, when it will become ILLEGAL to refuse someone a job on the grounds of their age without damn good reason! So long as my class 1 medical says I'm fit to fly, I can't see them finding one.
I am considering spending 20K on a type rating at the moment, but perhaps that will be a complete waste of money!
See this government thread: http://www.direct.gov.uk/Employment/Employees/DiscriminationAtWork/DiscriminationAtWorkArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10026429&chk=q3aE%2B4

[hixton]

I cant see how that law could work.
If they didnt want you because of your age they would just make another excuse on paper.

[cheevere]

to be honest mate, i think 42 is well to old to get employed by an airline. oxford told u that ud be ok, thats sounds about right coming from them, but considering that the retirement age is 50 for over 90% of airlines id say ur s**t out of luck. On the plus side ive heard BA are extending there retirement age to 60 but id imagine u did modular which would exclude you from them also. have u thought about getting an instructor rating and doing that?? as for paying for type training i wouldnt recommend wasting your money.

cheevere

[Piltdown Man]

But it is fair to ask who the hell GAPAN are are to whom they sent the questionnaires? I'd suggest that the answer is a bunch of old farts sent a questionnaire to the morons who pass themselves off as Human Remains. One of the questions they left off was "What are you doing to select and fund your own direct entry ab-initio cadets?" But it doesn't really matter because we all know the answer: "Bugger All!". Until the airlines start putting their hands in their pockets, then they will have to take whatever turns up on the doorstep - whatever the age and experience level! The reality is, they have to crew planes to operate flights which have already been sold - where are these rich (or deeply in hock - and we haven't talked asbout university top-up fees yet!) 20 year old somethings with a university education, jet exposure and life experience! As ever, HR have their heads so far up their own backsides they can only see their teeth.

[LD Max]

If they didnt want you because of your age they would just make another excuse on paper

Well the same could be said for the disability or race discrimination laws... but the laws work because individual cases eventually come to the tribunals and to the courts and Company Policies change to reflect the law. I'm sure there will be some inertia, but after spending over 80K to get stuck at the back of a dole queue - I'd be the first to bring a case against any employer who says I'm too old!!!

considering that the retirement age is 50 for over 90% of airlines id say ur s**t out of luck. On the plus side ive heard BA are extending there retirement age to 60...

Well, 55 seems to be the average from what I can see. Employ me NOW and you get at least 13 years out of me flying - and then give me a desk job until I'm 65!! That doesn't seem a bad deal for any employer - ESPECIALLY as I've funded the lion's share of my training. It's not like they have put any real investment into me!

[High Wing Drifter]

Even though that GAPAN page has "21-Mrz-2006" (Mrz??) at the bottom of it, it is yonks old. I could be 2 years old, but I certainly recall it knocking around a while back.

In addition, it is a survey. Organisations do two things with surveys: 1) Delegate the completion to a junior member of staff 2) Answer how they would ideally like to operate rather than what actually happens.

[EGBKFLYER]

Cheevere,

As you will no doubt be aware, with your extensive knowledge of airline recruitment practices;) , networking is a skill to be developed by any wannabe - i.e. be careful who you flame!

42 is not 'well too old' - I know two people personally who were employed at this age or older as a first job. One is currently flying a 747, six years after getting his CPL at the age of 40...

Your other 'facts' can also be comprehensively disproved with a little careful research.:}

HWD - 'Mrz' = Marz. GAPAN obviously have a German calendar machine thingy...

[Aerospace101]

A few things about this survey
1) it is 3 years old
2) only 7 airlines took part in it - a fair representation?

IF you really want to KNOW WHAT THE AIRLINES WANT, pick up your phone use a bit of initiative and SPEAK to the airlines directly. No bullsh*t.

[LD Max]

EGBK... Thanks for this. I can sleep a bit more soundly now ;-)

Interestingly, I just picked up an article on P.10 of the 28 March (or should that be 28 Mrz?) Issue of Flight International entitled "ICAO favours Older Pilots".

Apparently BALPA has called for "nonsense legislation" (retirement age <65) to be relaxed, arguing that the stringent medical and technical tests pilots are subjected to are enough to establish their competence and fitness to fly.

Well done BALPA. Logically the same should be said for the recruitment age as well as retirement.

Aerospace101 / High Wind, Thanks for pointing out the age of this survey.

[Alex Whittingham]

Wloud it help you to know that, although GAPAN are impartial, EPST is a Dutch commercial training organisation who select cadets themselves and place them for training with OAT? Notice only the multi-choice response came from the airlines, the comment comes from GAPAN/EPST. Nevertheless, it seems to be a fairly valid survey with no real surprises. You would expect airlines would want to hire type rated 25 year olds, the question is not "who would they want to hire?" but "who do they hire?"

[scroggs]

for all the bull going on this site, here's a survey that outlines what the airlines really require for FOs. age, knowledge etc are discussed. This will aid anyone seeking training as it seems more about the right type of person than ur type of training that you did. have a look anyways and let me know what u think.
wasteful feedback need not apply
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm

All the 'bull' on this site? Tell me, what qualifications have you to decide what is good information and what isn't? And can you ditch the text-speak? We don't limit you to 160 characters on this board, unlike your mobile phone.

What is 'wasteful' feedback, pray?

GAPAN is a highly-respected organisation, but a survey of seven airlines taken some time ago is hardly representative of the industry. It would appear to me that this document is claiming greater authority than it deserves. There are around 50 airlines in UK alone, and their recruiting policies differ widely. There are many who are quite happy to accept low-houred pilots well over 30 (occasionally into the 40s), and the majority will currently take graduates of modular training. Academic requirements also vary widely.

There may be some useful stuff in the rest of the report, however. That said, I have some reservations about the motivations behind the report. EPST is a commercial organisation, closely associated with OAT, and GAPAN itself offers a number of different sponsorships. Their own preferences may well have influenced the conclusion the report came to. I have been involved in interviewing GAPAN aptitude testees as a guest interviewer, and I was struck by some of the outdated and conservative attitudes and opinions of some of the GAPAN interviewers; much of the advice they gave seemed to be based on BA recruiting of the 1980s - or earlier! I found myself occasionally profoundly disagreeing with the entrenched viewpoints of one or two of their people, and I therefore wonder if their report may be influenced by similarly outdated opinions.

So, the report is from too small a sample. It has commercial backing, which undermines its objectivity. It comes from an organisation which may be a little out of touch with the modern market. I would therefore take its findings as no more than a useful addition to the information that can be found here.

Scroggs

[Luke SkyToddler]

This whole thing is pitched shamelessly towards that holy grail of "big jet straight out of flying school" and yeah it makes pretty depressing reading if that's the only career target you are aiming at.

All that this survey really says is that if you happen to be one of the elite few who are mid 20s, have a super duper academic record, and have more money than a bull can sh!t - then yes you probably have a better chance than the rest of us. Woop de doo, I reckon most of us could have figured that out without a survey.

Of course most NON big-jet operators, i.e. the turboprops and regionals etc, are deeply suspicious of pilots like that because they know damn well the dude is going to work here for a year or two, and then cruise off to BA faster than you can say "thanks-for-the-unfrozen-ATPL-suckers!".

Those who don't fulfil that narrow set of criteria - i.e. the vast majority of us - no need to get too demoralized because there are still plenty of other options available. There are plenty of people out there of course who got the big jet job even though they weren't this fictitious GAPAN superhero. Otherwise you'll just have to go down the traditional road of instructor - turboprop - little jet - big jet. Or parachute dropping. Or bush flying. Or ambulance flying. Or night freight in battered old piston twins. Or whatever. Think outside the square a bit, you'll get there eventually, and for gods sake dont go jumping off a bridge because some dodgy survey says you can't get an airline job unless this this and this.

[cheevere]

sorry for having some ambition and wanting the big jet job straight away.

[WGW]

Be sure and let us know when you get one....

[EGBKFLYER]

I wonder if cheevere is the 'ying' to A320rider's 'yang'?

You seem awfully aggressive there cheevere - what's your beef?:uhoh:

[aerdna]

Cheevere,

thank you for taking the time to do some research and posting the results of it.

Still, as others have already pointed out, you seem to think you know much more than you actually do. It is probably typical of (some people of) your age i guess. Thanks god it's not like you say it out there.

So would you please notch it down a little when it comes to issuing sentences like the one relative to LD MAX, where you are basically suggesting he should take up farming?

Basically, little less arrogance and a bit more respect please;)

Ciao

[cheevere]

i wasnt being arrogant is just my uncle is a senior pilot with aer lingus so id imagine he has a reasonable good and reliable opinion more so than most on here and the sentiments being relayed to me from him is to go integrated with one of the good schools basically if i have any aspirations of getting a job with one of the major carriers. anyone who wants to do training in their forties id seriously recommend doing some research and dont go about spending circa 100k euro because people like scroggs say that you might get a job. the fact of the matter is that every single airline prefers younger people why wouldnt they, yes some airlines will take on someone in their forties but they are few and far between. scroggs isnt spending the money for you, so i think its irresponsible by him giving people that age who havent started training false hope or illusions that they will easily find a job because he knew a couple of people who got lucky and got them. Because if he's being honest he'd say they were very lucky. yes the survery is a small sample but a fair representation of whats going on today in the industry today according to my uncle.

[scroggs]

Before you criticise me and the advice I give to older wannabes, you need to go back and read through the several hundred posts I have made on the subject. I very much doubt you have done that.

I have no idea what experience your uncle has with respect to the business of people getting jobs in this industry, but I have a great deal. I can categorically assure you that there is no magic about doing an integrated course. In fact, the most successful course available in terms of graduate employment is the CTC Wings course, which is modular. Some airlines certainly do express a preference for integrated graduates, but those same airlines (including BA) regularly employ modular graduates. Even the GAPAN survey you quote shows only one out of the seven airlines surveyed that professes to prefer integrated graduates - and that was at a time when they could be much more choosy than they can now.

Cheevere, you most certainly are being arrogant. Do a bit less opinionating and a bit more listening and reading before you make any training choices.

Scroggs

[Luke SkyToddler]

I wouldn't normally start having a willy measuring contest with some 4-post adolescent with a bad attitude, but since you've only been posting in this forum for about 10 seconds you probably aren't aware that Scroggs is an ex-very-senior RAF pilot now flying the A340 with Virgin Atlantic. I'm nowhere near his league but I am a turboprop captain of 10+ years experience in the business.

I think we are probably both capable of deciding who we can and can't give career advice to without you or your uncle's input. And if I had to choose between sharing my flightdeck on some max duty 6-sector day with a proper grown up 40-year-old, or some arrogant ignorant young know-it-all such as you appear to be, then it wouldn't be a hard choice to make to be honest.

Now piss off and learn some manners (and learn some PUNCTUATION while you're at it for christ's sake!), or I suspect you'll be making new world records for shortest number of posts before pprune sin-binning.

( edited to say - you beat me to it again scroggs! :ok: )

[benhurr]

sorry for having some ambition and wanting the big jet job straight away.

Sums it up for me.

That is not ambition. That is having absolutely no understanding of how the industry works. No idea about what flying is all about.

It is also an attitude that makes me a touch angry.

Sh!t I have done instructing, single pilot ops and now fly a "small" business aircraft. Clearly I have no ambition or any sort of motivation, loved every single moment of my flying though.

Guess my attitude stinks because I was over 30 when I started my commercial training.

Like most careers, being a pilot involves a learning curve. Wanting to go straight onto big shiney jets doesn't demonstrate ambition it demonstrates arrogance - trust me, arrogance does not fit in with the modern CRM environment.

Please don't think that my comments are in any way a personal attack, I wouldn't lower myself;)

[scroggs]

Without exception every single jet pilot I know including highly experienced training captains are from modular backgrounds, all but one started on turboprops or light pistons and most didn't get their first commercial job until their late 20s/early 30s.

A tad of an exaggeration there, duir? If that's so, can you explain where all the graduates of Cabair, OAT and FTE integrated courses go?!

There are a lot of jobs out there, and there are people from all shades of the training spectrum getting in on the action. No one system or school has a monopoly on success or how to do it. There's still room for all the different approaches, including the integrated cadet getting into a 737 at 250 hours. They'll miss out on a great deal of good flying but, hey, that's their loss!

Scroggs

[Aerospace101]

"you have to be integrated/21/genius and rich"

well someone's got to be.... :E

[machlimter99]

Scroggs,

Which airlines employ modular 250 hr guys to fly their 737s then?? From what Ive seen they all mainly ask for experience, such as 500 hrs on type. I also know that there are many integrated chaps who are brought through the backdoors into these airlines, such as BA however the same cant be said about modular.

[APU INOP]

Best of luck with that interview. Yea, in most places you can't just walk into an HR office, slam down a resume and declare that you want "big jet time". You have to interview, based on your expierence, skill in the SIM, and PERSONALITY! I don't know how you are in person, but if you come in to any avation company with the attitude that you have given in this thread, I can gaurentee you that your interviewers will chucke, look the other way, and then give you the ole' don't call us... we'll call you speech. Everyone desirves a big jet job. The harsh reality for you will be that you have to work for it. I had to flight instruct for 3 years before getting a regional CRJ job. I still have a long way to go. Put in your time in, fly the line, be patient, and learn something about the industry. Don't just go spouting off using your Uncle as your only refrence, it just comes off as ignorant. Oh yea and one more thing... don't EVER bring up your Uncle in an interview (unlesss it's for an Air Lingus job) they won't care.


A WELL TRAINED F/O SAYS THREE THINGS: Clear Right, You're Right, and I'll take the fat one.

[Alex Whittingham]

In my day you had Flight Engineers to take the fat one, and her mother.

[scroggs]

machlimiter, actually, if you go back through my posts, I haven't mentioned any 250-hour modular graduates on 737s. I have mentioned 250-hour integrated guys getting 737 jobs: ...including the integrated cadet getting into a 737 at 250 hours and I have said that those airlines that express a preference for integrated graduates are also taking modular graduates: Some airlines certainly do express a preference for integrated graduates, but those same airlines (including BA) regularly employ modular graduates.

That said, there is anecdotal evidence right here on Pprune that at least a few 250-hour modular guys are getting a break into jet jobs again. How many, and where from, I can't tell you off the top of my head. It's probably fair to say that most modular guys need a few more hours, but not that many.

Scroggs

[machlimter99]

scroggs,

Not wanting to sound too critical, but I have met some of the integrated chaps that have had interviews lined up (with BA et al) even before they start their IRs; I dont think the same can be said for the modular chaps.

From my own personal experience, I have 1600 hours, aged 29 with a f.atpl, however most of these hours are on a SEP and I cant find a jet operator that doesnt want hours on a jet before they will look at your cv. Just wondering are others in the same position???:ugh:

[Megaton]

machlimter99,

Not looking hard enough then. I'm modular, low-hrs and closer to 40 than 35 and have been flying jets for 3 months with our national flag carrier.

[scroggs]

National flag carrier? Virgin doesn't have any low-hour pilots! :p

Scroggs

[Send Clowns]

Cheevere

First could I ask a small courtesy of you? Your post would be far easier to read if you actually punctuated it and separated it into paragraphs correctly.

However I also have to take issue with some of your points.

Why should a senior pilot know anything about the best route for training? For a start you have not said that he is involved with recruitment, and in any case he works for a single airline. Also they themselves trained under a completely different system, before the JAA even existed. I have heard some very bad advice from "senior pilots" on this subject.the fact of the matter is that every single airline prefers younger people [sic] why wouldnt [sic] they, [sic]Where is your proof of this "fact"? Is it like the "fact" that 90% of companies insist people retire at 50, when I can think of none that do and plenty that allow pilots to fly until 65 (up to the size of DHL for example) and others only won't because of French intransigence. In fact you are unlucky, and made it even more obvious you don't know what you are talking about as you had missed the recent news that BA are going to allow their pilots to elect to continue to 60; previously they retired at 55.

The survey is nothing like a fair sample or a fair impression. The arguments have been put, you need to address them not simply command that it is a fair representation!

APU INOP

I hope you haven't got an MCC! The role of the FO is exactly the opposite - it is to tell the Captain he is wrong. If he is right then he doesn't need anyone to tell him, he probably isn't that modest!

[cheevere]

you're not exactly mr current affairs on this thread are you? if you've read the thing properly you would have seen that i mention that ba have raised their retirement age about three days ago.

[scroggs]

Change your attitude young man, or leave. You will not be given another warning, nor will you have any say in the outcome.

Scroggs

[Send Clowns]

Cheevere

Even less excuse for getting the retirement age wrong. Have you any answers to any of the points I made? I make them in all seriousness, and if you have further information it would be useful to some people here.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Cheevere

I agree with something you said in your opening post.

"it seems more about the right type of person than ur type of training that you did."

Good basic training is important but your personality is what will grant you access to, or bar you from, an airline career. Everything you have posted since has been somewhat questionable in tone and content. The way you portray yourself with your posts does you no favours. Put it this way, at the moment I wouldn't want to share a cockpit with you.

You have recieved input from several people on this thread who have a wide range of experience in pilot training and flying for airlines. I don't have a great deal of experience so feel free to take this as you wish, but trust me that you would do well to listen to the likes of Scroggs and Send Clowns. Decent advice is hard to come by and pprune is one of the few places you get decent, independant, non-comercially driven advice for free. It will be to your advantage if you listen to them, it certainly helped me.

Good luck with your plans for the future.

[Reverand Lovejoy]

You need to take it easy there buddy. Your gonna blow an o-ring or something. Why do hate the world so much?
Well you've gone out of your way to prove that you know a very small amount about this industry so I thought I'd give you a piece of advice, listen to your uncle by all means but don't solely rely on what you have clearly stated as his opinion.
he has a reasonable good and reliable opinion
This is by no means a dig at your unlce but his opinions up till now have not been anywhere near the facts.
go integrated with one of the good schools basically if i have any aspirations of getting a job with one of the major carriers Not true......... Major carriers are participating in selection from the MODULAR course I am trying to get through and one which provides pilots to your uncles carrier!

Before I leave though I must thank you in helping gain information about how not to act in my interview on Tuesday. It's always nice to learn something from your peers as these old guys have there fingers way off the pulse:E
you're not exactly mr current affairs on this thread are you?
That one got me going - I'm still laughing. If that's how you inform people of a trivial mistake it wont matter if your from Dublin and your uncle works for Aer Lingus your gonna need more than the luck of the Irish to change that attitude. And thank god BA have put up the retirement age coz it will probaly take you that long to get a command. This is of course just my opinion which I consider "reliable and reasonably good" !!

Idiot

The Reverand

[RAPA Pilot]

Cheevere

My God, how I've laughed at this thread. You remind me of the joke about the young bull and the old bull stood on top of the hill looking down at a hurd of cows.
The young bull says, "hey, lets run down the hill and shag one of those cows"
And the old bull says, " no son lets walk down the hill and shag all of the cows"

You need to calm down.

I really feel sorry for you. You'll get on your big shinny jet and have absolutely no idea how to fly an aeroplane.

You come and spend a day flying with me in my airline. Single crew, no automatics, discusting weather, no heating,leaky doors and windows, smelly passangers, and you'll know what flyings all about. Hopefully it'll put you off aviation for good and save all us old duffers(I'm 37) from ever having the misfortune of having to sit next to you.

It's a service and sacrifice I'm prepared to make for the sake of my fellow adult aviators.

Oh and I absolutely love my job. am I ambitious? sure I am. I was a factory worker 6 years ago and now I'm Base Captain and Senior Training Captain. Checked out our Chief last week. He owes me beer now(and he gets the fat one):)

Why dont you get your burgan on and hitch hike around the world for a couple of years and learn some humility,empathy, and something of life. Might just get you through that interview one day.

Scroggs
I have always read you posts with interest over the years and I've not said it before but, thank you, you have made some exellent comments, given good advice and given a lot of your time in encouraging others to stick at it. I did and I made it, in my own little way.

Now where's the bottle opener, still got 2 left.....................:O

RIPA Plotlet.

[MrHorgy]

If GAPAN is so useless with it's survey, why don't people suggest some of their own on this thread, and i'll cough up the 27p to send them out to as many airlines as I can think of, and then report on results (if I get any)

Horgy

[Aerospace101]

I wouldnt say the survey is useless, it just has a few problems

1) its 3 years old [thus needs updating]

2) it only represents 7 out of like 50 uk airlines [needs a bigger sample]

3) if you read it carefully it comes across as being specifically aimed at young wannabes - ie facts you should consider if you are aged 16-22 ish [comments like; you should consider doing your training as soon as possible once out of school]

4) finally, that it's been done by GAPAN and EPST, in some peoples eyes seems to make this think that its all totally gospel true; [authority of knowledge & position]

as previously stated, dont bother with a survey, use your 27p for a phonecall to the head of Xairline recruitment and ask them directly your questions about what they as an airline culture are looking for. Its a very grey area all of this, so i dont think a questionaire of a yes or no fashion could ever be truly representative.

[female pilot70]

:confused: hello from germany, this sounds good, Im still looking for my first job, there is nothing! But I never give up, in summer I start a TR, Cheevere,

As you will no doubt be aware, with your extensive knowledge of airline recruitment practices;) , networking is a skill to be developed by any wannabe - i.e. be careful who you flame!

42 is not 'well too old' - I know two people personally who were employed at this age or older as a first job. One is currently flying a 747, six years after getting his CPL at the age of 40...

Your other 'facts' can also be comprehensively disproved with a little careful research.:}

HWD - 'Mrz' = Marz. GAPAN obviously have a German calendar machine thingy...

[jamestkirk]

[QUOTE=flyingbug]Cheevere,

bang on.
Most airlines look at the personality of the candidates first and not how/where they obtained their licence. A commonly quoted yardstick is "would you be prepared to sit next to this pilot for 8 hours on a flight deck?"

If the above is true then why do i meet lairline captains who say 'i would really like to sit next to you on the flight deck and cannot understand where we get the F/O's at the moment'.

I hear this more and more. Please do not shoot me down in a ball of flames for ther next comment; I have never had anyone complain about my personality, attitude, sense of humour (well, that can be a little flambouyant at times). Unfortunately, with HR recruiting and not pilots, we never get to the personality stage because we have to go through verbal, mathematical, sexual reasoning tests. If you pass those you can fly a plane and everyone you work with will be enriched by your company and personal attributes.

If not, you are a waster who should arrange your own crucifiction on the first available saturday (more spectators due to normal working week)

The problem is, the whole process is totally sterile before you get to the 'lets meet them and see what he/she is like'.

Why can't we be asked 1. Do you wash on a regular basis and 2. Do you love your mother.

Surely if the above two answers are yes, then you are not a bad individual.

If you can fly and aeroplane that is good as well.

It seems, only from what i hear, that if all the above answers to the above are NO, then you are given a start date on whatever aircraft you want in the fleet.

Sounds a little bitter, but it's still early in the morning for me.

JTK

[Pilot Pete]

My airline recruits a cross section of backgrounds onto 737/757s. This includes modular 250hr guys. Yes it is a little harder to get called for a selection with those hours and they tend to be favouring the CTC route, but CTC place modular 250hr cadets into many UK jet operators.

It all comes down to supply and demand. I read this survey when it first appeared and didn't agree with its findings then. I agree even less now. The few airlines that responded gave an indication of their idealised preferences, not what they will, and do actually accept. The market has changed since this report was published and there are many more jobs available and fewer quality candidates on the market. It's purely a numbers game. The average experience level of a Wannabe has dropped significantly and the airlines have had to lower their rose tinted recruitment spectacles somewhat already. The one thing that is guaranteed is that airlines won't allow aircraft to sit around idle for long due to not being able to recruit pilots.

It's all happened before and if the market continues expanding unabated then we will see experience requirements drop further and entry age requirements quietly increase.

PP

[stall recovery]

Thanks for that PP......great post......you've just helped me believe a little more in what I'm doing.....the search goes on! :ok:

[LD Max]

My airline recruits a cross section of backgrounds onto 737/757s. This includes modular 250hr guys.

Thanks for the info PP. ...and if I may be so bold, which airline is this? (Please PM me if you don't want to publicise).

Actually, things are looking a LOT more positive than the survey suggests. I was obviously having a bad week when I last posted...

Regards,

[Pilot Pete]

No secrets, it's Thomsonfly.

PP

[haughtney1]

Awww Pete I was waiting for the Cyriptic clues!:}

[CaptainKC]

Hi everyone!

I'm new, just about to start the ATPL haha and go for the big job, however I'm 37 next birthday and I know what I'm up against, do you think I shold get the instructors rating along the way, will it be of any advantage???

Cheers:ok:

[nicosnoko]

Greetings,
BA is recruiting heavily, I have read that they only take
integrated guys, is that right?
Why not modular?
I don't see any differences in the long term !!!
For me that's discrimination...
I am experienced but from a modular background.
Happy flying,
N.

[Aerospace101]

BA do recruit ex-modular students. However, when they recruit low hour guys (~220hrs) they have to come straight out of an integrated school only.

If you are ex-modular and want to join BA you need;

(if not type rated, for shorthaul)
ATPL(F) with 750hours recent experience on a turbojet/turboprop transport category aeroplane with a MTOM greater than 10 tonnes or an approved passenger seating config of no less than 20

(if not type rated, for longhaul)
ATPL min 2000hrs total with min 1000hrs on a jet with MTOM >25T

(if type rated)
ATPL(F) 500hrs recent experience on A320, 737/757/767
or Longhaul 747/777 500hrs ATPL

If you read FLIGHT you will have seen BA advertising this for the last few months! :ok:

[CaptainKC]

Is there any jobs for multi ir low hour pilots on light twins?? Looking at the time scale for getting a right seat seem to be average one year after the multi/mcc, so instructing or using the multi ir seems to be the only thing to do to keep current, anyone have any light to shed????

All replys welcome:)

[nicosnoko]

Thanks aerospace 101 for your quick answer !!!

Last year I received a thanks but no thanks letter for no apparent reason.
I reapply just 2 weeks ago.
I know quite a lot of guys from my ex and present company who got
interviewed...

Maybe there is something I don't have or else...

Anyway thanks !

N.

[scroggs]

nicosnoko and Aerospace 101, if you are both experienced, whether you did modular or integrated training is irrelevant to an employer. Your experience is much more important.

Secondly, if you are experienced you are in the wrong forum.

Scroggs

[adam83]

HI to all.
i am planning on going to western aviation college in perth australia.(jaa integrated)
the only thing that bothers me is that i do not know what happens after the course is finished.
i realise that european airlines prefer pilots that went to oat and cabair and jerez..but not everyone can afford it.
so....if anyone can help me with this dilema i would appreciate it..
please suggest solutions.......
cheers

[dartagnan]

not true,
you will discover that this market changes everymonth, and it is a jungle.
even airlines dont know what they want.

In aviation, nobody can predict the futur...can you?