View Full Version : PT or NoPT (Approach Chart)


FL050
26th Mar 2006, 17:19
So I failed this on my checkride:

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00978VD19.PDF

Say your at BUKSE, an IAF, and your executing the approach from that intersection, would you do the procedure turn? From looking at the plan view, I would say no, but going by the book and knowing a DME Arc doesn't get you out of a procedure turn I said you would do the procedure turn as there is no indication on the chart that says you do not do the procedure turn. I know the point of a DME Arc is to get you lined up for the approach to the runway, there are numerous other times my instructor has had to do a procedure turn when he was already inbound like that.

There must be something I am missing here.



Aim High
26th Mar 2006, 20:35
The procedure turn is for when you join from BRANE IAF going outbound on 354

Joining from BUKSE, AKUME or CADUB you will reach the 354 radial approaching an inbound course of 174 hence no need for a procedure turn - you are already inbound

FL050
26th Mar 2006, 22:58
The procedure turn is for when you join from BRANE IAF going outbound on 354

Joining from BUKSE, AKUME or CADUB you will reach the 354 radial approaching an inbound course of 174 hence no need for a procedure turn - you are already inbound

Yes but just because you are already inbound doesn't mean you are void of a procedure turn.

Oakley921
26th Mar 2006, 23:41
Yes but just because you are already inbound doesn't mean you are void of a procedure turn.
According to Aim 5-4-8

When is a procedure turn not required:
1. The symbol "NoPT" is depicted
2. "Radar Vectoring" is provided
3. A holding pattern is published in lieu of a procedure turn.
4. Conducting a times approach
5. The procedure turn is not authorized (absence of procedure turn barb on plain view)


Something seems wrong with this though. I dont think I would execute the PT because how would you do it correctly if it was not depicted as a hold. Maybe the chart is wrong. contact FISDO



EDIT: I just looked at a bunch of arches in the midwest...CMI VOR/DME 22 for example and they have NO PT depicted on the arc. I think the chart is screwed up


DM

Send Clowns
27th Mar 2006, 00:41
Should be valid worldwide, even though the format of the plate is unfamiliar, but before answering I have to say I have only flown IFR in Europe. Here pocedure turns are not very common - most procedures have an outbound track that is not resiprocal to the final approach.

It would not even cross my mind to do the procedure turn. The point of a procedure turn is to take an aircraft flying outbound and return it to the reciprocal course on the same path across the ground. If you fly the arc you are not outbound.

It is sometimes hard in training to see that the point of instrument approaches is not to trip up unwary students, it is to take an aircraft into a position to land. A procedure turn would not increase flight safety (the arc is flown at 2600' so no outbound descent is required, the only reason I could think this might be necessary), therefore I can only assume it would not be expected. The only result would be confusion and higher workload on the pilot, harming flight safety.

If they wanted you to fly the procedure turn then they would have arcs that lead you onto outbound legs, not onto the inbound.

chrisbl
27th Mar 2006, 17:59
I would say that there was a mistake on the chart and that the NoPT has been missed off.

If you look at all the other charts for that airport with the exception of the VOR A they give the No PT.

http://www.myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00978L1.PDF

You should report it to the NACO and tell them it caused you to fail the checkride.

scroggs
28th Mar 2006, 08:30
Aim High is quite right. No procedure turn is required for an aircraft joining this procedure at the BUKSE IAF intending to fly the MLC 17D arc at 2600ft. The DME arc procedure is intended to get you to the same place as the PT would flown from BRANE. It is alternative to the PT, and the giveaway is that it is an IAF.

Scroggs