RH Seat ICUS in 737 and Airbus types.

[Centaurus]

There is no shortage of jet command jobs advertised for B737 and Airbus captains in Asia and other countries. ICUS hours on these types is perceived as worth something in those countries. On the other hand ICUS in Australia is scorned and has no real value in job hunting. This is because of the traditionally over-supply of pilots in this country.

There are pilots in Australia with thousands of first officer hours on 737's but who cannot crack jobs in Asia where flying schools are churning out hundreds of brand new pilots destined to go directly into the right hand seat of a jet.

One Pacific based airline gave ICUS to selected first officers quite legally and this was in the left seat not the right seat. In turn an Asian B737 operator was happy to accept as equivalent command the considerable ICUS hours accrued by one particular B737 F/O who had over 5000 hours on type. He now enjoys being a captain - an opportunity that would never have arisen except for the forethought and kindness of the chief pilot who authorised the ICUS.

Which brings me to the point of this post. Using Virgin Blue as an example, it would be a nice gesture to offer selected experienced first officers the opportunity of logging ICUS in the RH seat in order to qualify for direct entry commands in Asia or elsewhere. It would not cost extra and as all Virgin Blue F/O's (and Qantas?) have command endorsements that were conducted in the RH seat (remember ETA policy), then logging ICUS from that position should not pose a problem. All it needs is the cooperation of the company concerned.

In 1989, there were hundreds of experienced first officers armed only with second class (copilot) endorsements who were left stranded in Australia because the Australian second class endorsement was worthless outside of Australia. Captains from the same Australian airlines at the time enjoyed immediate employment overseas.

Currently ICUS time is unavailable for F/O's in many Australian airlines and is considered worthless in Australia but potentially valuable outside of Australia. And it is outside of Australia where jet command jobs are increasing

[LeadSled]

Centaurus,
You would find it worthwhile to have a look at an old DCA/CAA logbook, inside the front cover as to how hours were logged, until quite recently---and weep!!
Until the recent change, Australia complied with ICAO Annex1, the change has meant that young Australian pilots are seriously disadvantaged by the current Australian system and CASA were told that at the time. The "official" CASA position is that we are in compliance with Annex 1 --- by notifying a "difference", bringing us into "compliance" as we completely up-end the intent of long standing and internationally recognised and understood practices.
Disadvantaging 100% of young pilots didn’t count, compared to catching the odd VH-BIC/P-51 time, as far as CASA was concerned. Sadly, there was quite a chorus of Australian domestic pilots who supported the change, I guess they already had the necessary “regulatory” hours.
One again, the rest of the world is out of step with Australia.
Examples of other countries that conform to ICAO are UK, logged as P1S – P1 under supervision, NZ, last time I noticed called command practice, etc, etc, ALL logged as P1- suitably endorsed, from which ever seat ( provided it’s a front window seat) you are sitting in ! Singapore same,same.
Despite the claims of the “purity” of the Australian position (recently adopted) no non-Australian airline has the slightest difficulty in differentiating between “In Command” and “In Command Under Supervision”, howsoever called, when they are looking at recruits.
Sadly, thousands of hours of “co-pilot” in your log book tells them nothing about your P1S time.
Forget all the nonsense about “senior F/Os”, just demand that Australia revert to the ICAO standard that we followed for many years.
The airlines are not on your side, they want to make it a difficult as possible to get a job outside Australia.
Tootle pip!!