Balpa Employment Opportunities Conf 2005

[Lightheart]

Does anyone have a copy of the airlines minimum requirements list that BALPA gave out during their employment opportunities conference last October 2005?

I've tried to obtain it from them, but unles you become a member they don't like to give you any info. Tried explaining to them that I cannot join until I become employed and that this list might help me become employed so then I would be in a position to join. This to and from process is taking too long.

Thanks.

[Charley]

Tried explaining to them that I cannot join until I become employed and that this list might help me become employed so then I would be in a position to join.

Apart from any personal circumstances of yours that preclude it, that statement is not true. You are perfectly entitled (as an unemployed pilot) to join Balpa as an Associate Member and you'd pay only £2 per month for it.

[LAX]

If you meet the right criteria you can join BALPA if you are a student, CPL un-employed or employed.

I see you are from Spain. I am from the UK and fly commercial overseas on a licence issued by the UK CAA, Balpa charge me £24 for membership/year and I have access to all said information/conferences. I suggest you PAY UP like everyone else has to.

Like you say a small price to pay if it helps you become employed.

[Lightheart]

* a copy of your JAA Class 1 CAA medical and
* a letter from your FTO confirming you are undertaking commercial
training and the duration of the module - converting your FAA Licence to a
JAA one also falls in this category.
BALPA Trainee Membership is free for a specified period, and once
having obtained the basic commercial licence (and if you are not able to
gain employment as a Pilot), you would then transfer to the BALPA
Associate Unemployed category, which has a nominal £2 per month cost payable by
direct debit (or if permanently abroad £24 per annum in advance).

This is what I received from them after a month of waiting for a reply. I'm in the US hour building on a FAA license. I won't return to Europe to convert until I have the hours I require. I cannot provide the letter from the FTO as required as I don't know which FTO or indeed, in which JAA states I'm going to use convert in yet.

This is why I wanted to see those airline requirements to help me "fine tune" my training strategy.

I have no problem paying up like everyone else as I've already joined the IPA. A much less "red-taped" experience. As you can see, much grief for a piece of paper.

My frustraton comes from not understanding why a simple request takes so long or is so involved, compared with the IPA, that is.

[WX Man]

In the past I've been involved with BALPA. Just trying to get into it again (did you get my email, Wendy?!). However conversations with membership people at the ADC last year lead me to believe that Associate Membership for people who haven't YET got their first job will cost you the princely sum of.... Nothing.

"Unemployed", I believe, covers guys who have had a job before and are not working now.

[LAX]

If your having problems joining BALPA, PPJN contains most of the information you need.

[wingbar]

Personally I wouldn't bother, they're damn unhelpful at the best of times...certainly didn't help me land a job....

[EGBKFLYER]

Wingbar - BALPA is a union, not an employment agency! That's not meant to be a facetious comment by the way.:)

A union exists to protect its members' employment rights. It may offer other services that it thinks might help in other ways (e.g. financial advice, insurance etc) but no union will usually find you a job unless it's part of a redundancy issue.

I'm an 'unemployed pilot' member and I pay my £2 per month. I don't think I get particularly good representation as a low-timer from them but for £2 a month, it's worth being a member 'just in case'.

[wingbar]

Yep, I'm too an unemplyed pilot...their EOC sucks for low timers too....absolutely no more use than painting my bottom blue- attended that twice now, - nice day out at heathrow but thats about it!:rolleyes:

[EGBKFLYER]

I think the EOC is a good idea - if only to remind you how many wannabes there are out there... If nothing else, it is an opportunity to network.

BALPA can't help it if the airlines aren't looking for low-timers - it is an EOC not a low-timer conference after all...:sad:

Wingbar - paint your bottom bright orange and you may have more luck with some operators!:p

[wingbar]

I just feel awful....I'm stuck in a job with people I dislike so hugely its unreal, the job itself closely resembles hell in an office...and i'm beginning to wonder why I bothered at all, really don't know what to do...out of money, out of luck.....ship sinking .....:(

[mightymouse111]

I think the Balpa Conference was a waste of money for low hours pilots. But then again Balpa were only reflecting the market, not the 70% of attendees (the hands up poll revealed 70% were <500hrs).
I also believe that the conference should be free for unemployed pilots (after all it is a union and should look after its members). It should also do more for the low-hours guys, don't forget that these will be the pilots of the future paying higher membership fees! I do know that Balpa has a real problem regarding how much time & energy it can offer someone paying £2 per month. Its not great! MP is a waste of space but its just about all we have so unfortunately lets continue to aim constructive criticism at them and maybe they will improve.

And as the the bloke who started this thread, pay your £2 and if you are not entitled to join balpa you are not entitled to there documents unless you pay me a large sum of money then i will send you a copy! For the record I joined balpa while under going my training so I do not see why you cannot do the same!

Wingbar...with you...chin up.....remember D-ream "Things can only get better"!

[fmgc]

It should also do more for the low-hours guys,

Like what for example?

[WX Man]

I think the Balpa Conference was a waste of money for low hours pilots. But then again Balpa were only reflecting the market, not the 70% of attendees (the hands up poll revealed 70% were <500hrs).
I also believe that the conference should be free for unemployed pilots (after all it is a union and should look after its members). It should also do more for the low-hours guys, don't forget that these will be the pilots of the future paying higher membership fees!
Unfortunately, if it were free every wannabe under the sun would be there, rather than just those that have got £50 burning a hole in their pocket. Personally I would prefer to spend £50 on stamps and printer ink sending a wad of CVs out... but you pays your money and takes your choice, eh?
I am of the firm opinion that the 70% of wannabes there paying £50 subsidise the real reason that the EOC exists: for experienced pilots to move sideways or upwards. The likes of flybe have to be at the EOC to attract 300 people, paying £50 a time, in order for the 5 year F/O or ex-mil guy to shake hands with, say Mr. Recruitment Officer from BMed. The EOC nevertheless serves a purpose (in that it aids movement in the jobs market), and it can benefit all UK pilots, be they BALPA members or not.
The REAL way that BALPA can help the 250 hour pilot is totally and utterly free, to BALPA (other than, maybe, a few well-placed lunches for airline recruitment people). If BALPA can sell British pilots to British airlines to fill low-hours positions, then they will be helping. At the moment there is an inordinate number of French and Dutch pilots filling low-hours positions with British airlines.
sits back and waits for the "if you spoke French" and "if you spoke Dutch" comments... well, NEWSFLASH people: I do! Let's keep this thread on topic please

[scroggs]

If BALPA can sell British pilots to British airlines to fill low-hours positions, then they will be helping. At the moment there is an inordinate number of French and Dutch pilots filling low-hours positions with British airlines.

It is the right of all EU nationals to be able to work in any EU nation. BALPA has no influence over this, a fundamental tenet of the EU. If you wish to register your desire for the UK to leave the EU, there are several political parties who espouse this point of view. BALPA must work within the EU's legal framework, and it is not mandated to lobby for the UK's exit or exemption from EU employment legislation.

Edit: I've just had to delete a xenophobic rant by one Ppruner. I will not tolerate any such posts on this forum, so don't push it!

Scroggs

[wingbar]

Scroggs, by removing that post without due need, you have not enabled anybody else other than yourself,to give the damn opinion on it.
Youre not the one sat in an office job at 23 as a qualified as a commercial pilot hating every minute of it...
You have a problem on here, when anybody voices an opinion that is remotely aimed towards the truth about the industry.... sorry it's like that...

[deice]

Sheesh Wingbar, perhaps your attitude is the reason you're so miserable... if you really hate the job and "everyone" around you, what's the chance you'll love the flying job and all your colleagues there?

You're not the only one without a flying job and at 23 you're not even started in the business! Come back and wail at 33...

Chin up!

[EGBKFLYER]

Xenophobia will not change the situation and there is no excuse for that kind of rant on what should be a civilised, professional forum.

Wingbar - read the thread headed 'networking'. Re-heat's post may help you to see that you need to get out of your office and pursue your dream. Moaning and getting bitter will not get you the job you dream of. Try to start making some of your own luck :ok:

[fmgc]

Scroggs,

I don't think that the post that you deleted was xenophobic at all and I do not believe that it deserved such harsh treatment.

Wingbar said nothing deflamitory about "foreigners" or siad nothing racist.

I do not however agree with him but that is irrelevent.

[wingbar]

No problem with my attitude, and if you started in flying too late thats your fault, not mine, I started at 13 in the ATC, now theres my commitment, I want my job now, and this industry had better be sharpish about it...!

All too often when people voice the truths on here they get stamped on from a great height. Whats more, when anybody with half a brian cell gives a hint of an improvement to this industry they get overidden... I really don't know whats up with it all. maybe i just feel tired, maybe i feel bankrupt, (or certainly getting that way) - i'm not keeping quiet, nor am I going to be a nice smiley guy I normally am. I feel like ****, and thats the truth of it! ...Moderators you can do what you damn well like with this post because I don't care about it all anymore .............................................

[scroggs]

Xenophobia (noun): Fear and contempt of strangers or foreign peoples.

Note that xenophobia does not imply racism. It is simply an unreasonable fear of foreigners. Wingbar's rant was xenophobic, and was an inappropriate attempt to turn this thread into a political argument about foreigners working in UK. There are more appropriate places to do this, and Pprune will not be party to it. EU nationals are as legally entitled to work in UK as any other EU country. That is the law, and it is outside BALPA's mandate or competency to attempt to change that fact.

If you wish to make a political stand about the issue, there are ways and means of doing so. This is not the place.

Scroggs

[wingbar]

Scroggs, there was no political agenda in my posting , I can at least promise you that.

As for Xenaphobia, I can say that I'm not really afraid of foreigners.
In proof of this; I drive a foreign car, and I have a world wide music taste, and have been known on occasion to have Italian girlfirends, but now, that was many moons ago. - But may give you a clue as to what I was getting at in the post you deleted regarding the BALPA ('BRITISH' airline pilots association EOC last year...)

Would it not, in light of your wonderful knowledge of EU be useful for a regarded professional like you to mention to BALPA, (I'm a member by the way) how they could improve their operation? Certailnly somebody of your calibre could help us in this.
Scroggs, what I am asking of you, is, can you help us, and, talk to Balpa? Try and raise our profile in the industry, let Balpa know about the truths of flight training costs and how we feel, as the new generation of future airline pilots , we're pretty much abandoned...I have even had to conceal the fact that I trained to be a pilot, because I couldn't even get a crummy job, they all said, oh well you'll be off the first sign of a flying job...we don't want you.

All of these issues are real, and ones which Balpa don't want to get involved in.
Many of my friends have received hostile remarks when commenting to Balpa about such issues, one friend in particular was told his £2/month membership wasn't worth tupence! - Now £2 a year 2006 could easily be £4/5000/pa ++ in a few years time, but they just don't realise that concept.

Please Scroggs I extol you to help us, I know you can if you will....please...

[mad_jock]

Wingbar I am not supprised you got reports of hostile behaviour when commenting on moving the status quo in training.

Who do you think are the people who make the policy within BALPA regards training etc?

Its the same old farts or friends of the old farts who have most to loose if it changes.

The market is changing whatever these people want to believe. I suspect they are hanging on by the skin of thier teeth to the historic advantage they used to have. The current change with the 3 big intergrated schools show this. Trying to claw back some of the modular market which they were quite happy to ignore in the past.

To be honest and its only a personal opinion BALPA has very little to offer any wannabie or commercial pilot outside BA unless the are operating in a PIC capacity. And your not really joining the union as such you are buying legal insurance and there incident managing skills. The advice given will be very biased towards what a very few operators actually want or need. I suspect that some of the companys saying they would only take on intergrated students would be taking very few if any low hours guys any way. And given the choice would take a 1000+ TP FO not caring how they trained. And as such can be ignored.

The old problem of seeing people come into Britian must seem unfair when out of work. BUT the UK has been exporting workers of all types for years be it brickys in germany, pilots in Asia, IT contractors the world over. We generally fiddle and avoid all forms of tax and social obligation where ever we work. As a country we can't moan about the odd few using a right which they are intitled to getting a job in the UK.

[scroggs]

Wingbar and mad_jock, BALPA is many things to many people. What it is not, these days, is the British Airways Pilots' Association! BALPA is an extremely effective professional association, active in far more than just industrial relations and pilots' compensation. In my company, BALPA - through the Crew Committe, formed of line pilots - has made a huge difference to every area of our professional lives.

BALPA head office has a relatively small staff, and its primary role is to protect and enhance the professional integrity, terms of employment and technical expertise of the British commercial pilot. While it takes an interest in the state of the wannabe market, it is not particularly active in that field. BALPA works by enabling people in certain situations to help themselves. When Virgin turned its pilots' terms of employment around, it wasn't achieved by a SWAT team from BALPA coming in and doing the work for us; it was done by Virgin pilots doing the work themselves with expert advice from BALPA's paid help. If you want something to be done to improve the lot of the wannabe pilot, you have to do it yourselves. If you can convince BALPA of the justice and logic of your case, and the interest to the greater pilot community, they will give you some of the tools to do the job - but the work comes from you, no-one else.

Contact them, go and talk to them, find out what's been done before and what's being done now. Don't sit here moaning and expecting someone else to sort it out for you.

Scroggs