Near misses between UAVs and airliners prompt NATO low-level rules review

[ehwatezedoing]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/03/14/Navigation/196/205379/Animation+Near+misses+between+UAVs+and+airliners+prompt+NATO +low-level+rules.html
DATE:14/03/06
SOURCE:Flight International, Peter La Franchi / London
Animation: Near misses between UAVs and airliners prompt NATO low-level rules review.
Incidents between UAVs and helicopters in Afghanistan and Iraq prompt action
NATO is studying options for improving low-level airspace co-ordination in operational areas in response to an increasing number of proximity incidents involving manned aircraft and unmanned air vehicles.
I tried a search to see if it has been posted before but find nothing.

There is an impressive UAV's video clip in it about a near miss.
The Airbus A300B4 wake turbulence eventually caused the UAV to crash.
Note: this particular incident happen in 30 August 2004.

Now my very basic question is:
How ATC is handling UAV's when they are crossing their controled airspace ?

[g126]

I have a question aswell. Does anyone know if any UK aircraft have been affected/involved in any of these incidents? It would be interesting to know. Have/could/should the UAV's be fitted with some kind of TCAS system, to avoid such incidents.

G

[BEagle]

It all boils down to basic airspace co-ordination.

Something which the CAA has had a frim grasp of ever since these ba$tard oversized aeromodels first became a threat to the rest of the aviation world.

OK - the grunts can fly them inside promulgated DAs in the UK. But outside requires much careful thought and is not yet acceptable. Obviously it will be different in conflict areas, but even so there must be careful airspace co-ordination if these things aren't to be more of a danger to friend than foe.

[Ian Corrigible]

The Luna/A300 near-miss video from Kabul hosted by Flight was originally discussed here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147314).

I/C

[Impiger]

UAVs in Class G?

Its the latest thing - not 'see and avoid' but 'sense and avoid'

Trouble is you don't know he has 'sensed' you. Actually come to think of it you don't know if the Cesna has 'seen' you either. Oh well, lots of cubic metres of sky and not many cubic metres of metal flying in it so we'll all be OK.

One man's offensive VID is another mans airprox/airmiss!

[Onan the Clumsy]

How ATC is handling UAV's when they are crossing their controled airspace ?
That's easy. They're tracked on the screen with nobody sitting in front of it.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

They are quite hard to see but from memory a UAV I flew under did come up on TCAS. Mind you my memory has faded significantly. Just fly lower than they do :} But then of course Army choppers and ATC get upset. Next thing you know, you've got a USAF tower supervisor making up lies because he doesn't like your aircraft being that low in Class G.:mad: Apparently it's not good enough to have a chopper on radar, TCAS and visiual 6 miles away for them.

[Green on, Go!]

PAF

Not this ATCO!! We all knew best/easiest way into BIAP ie the way you guys were doing it, particularly when I was a pax on said airframes...:E

The last time I was in an operational environment there were several incidents involving UAVs and other aviation. Reports were written, recommendations made, work-arounds instigated. Ultimately though, several of the many users of these items never thought to coordinate their activities through a central point (like a CAOC for instance). It seems that the wheels turn very slowly for some of our coaltion partners or perhaps it's just a case of it being easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. Gotta love 'big sky' theory.:(

[Pass-A-Frozo]

If only the Aussie controllers never left. :{

Although the yank controllers at home base would happily let you break local base procedures.. (that's when we discovered that there were some :} )

[SID East]

Currently serving in a overseas operational ATC environment with plenty of UAVs.
The most basic ones requires some degree of Airspace Ccntrol Measures, ROZ, Assigned level etc.
However, it is interesting working with the most advanced models which have a transponder, (hence can squawk ident), and have a radio relay from the ground "pilot" which allow us to communicate with him as if he were sat in it!
Given this setup, in terms of integrating UAVs into an ATC environment, it's not a lot of difference to the more traditional types of aircraft.

[L J R]

But who licences the 'pilot'. Such a question is still vexing - apparently.


...and yes, it is always a problem with a small UCAV in its own mega large ROZ. Wish i could get such a large ROZ for my activity!


At a recent UCAV seminar, deconfliction in and out of CTA etc was brushed under the carpet, but those who man the manned CAVs saw something like this happening soon!

....told you so!