FA18's over Melbourne right now!

[VH-XXX]

They're ready in anticipation of someone gate-crashing the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony... watch it guys, read your NOTAMS or you might get a rather unpleasant suprise out your starboard window followed by one hell of a hot a*rse!

[NNB]

5pm until MN no entry except for returning RPT into MB or approved media and military flights within 40nm MEL.
The RAAF are controlling the airspace and don't expect them to play neighbourly if you're not authorised :hmm:

[VH-XXX]

and they're still going, around and around and around and around and have been for more than 4 hours.

Let's hope that young 19 yr old raaf pilotdoesn't have an itchy trigger finger by now!

They appear to be doing about a 5 minute orbit, repetitively.

[nannas_new_hip]

They did the same thing when George Dubya visited Canberra last year. The sound of freedom. Enjoy it while it lasts down there. Not to many fast jets would make there way that far south to often.

19yr old pilot? Flying a hornet? Sorry mate but highly unlikely. Don't quote me on this but it takes a good 5-6 years to get to Hornets, which would mean he would have had to have joined at 13 or 14. I don't think so Tim.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

and they're still going, around and around and around and around and have been for more than 4 hours.

Let's hope that young 19 yr old raaf pilotdoesn't have an itchy trigger finger by now!

They appear to be doing about a 5 minute orbit, repetitively.

Combat air patrol
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This article is about a military term. For the investment bank, see Barclays Capital.
Combat air patrol (CAP) is a type of defensive mission for fighter aircraft, in which they guard a designated site, either a fixed site on land, ships at sea, or less commonly support aircraft such as aerial tankers.

It typically entails fighters flying some sort of pattern around the defended object, while looking for incoming attackers. Effective CAP patterns may include aircraft positioned at both high and low altitudes, so as to shorten response times when the attack is detected.

CAP is especially characteristic of aircraft carrier operations, where the CAP is flown to protect the carrier battle group. There are also BARCAP and TARCAP missions:

A BARrier Combat Air Patrol (BARCAP) is flown between the battle group and the direction from which it is most likely that enemy attack will come.
A TARget Combat Air Patrol (TARCAP) is flown over or near a strike target in order to protect specialised attack aircraft such as the AC-130 from harassment by enemy fighters.
A High Asset Value Combat Air Patrol (HAVCAP) is flown to protect a high-value asset (such as a tanker or an AWACS) during a specific "time on station".
The real-life activity inspired the computer game Combat Air Patrol, a flight simulator published by Psygnosis in 1995.

[Buster Hyman]

Did the budget stretch to a couple-o-Sidewinders at all?:} :ouch:

[nannas_new_hip]

I'd say a Steyr or a Minimi would be just as effective, considering the main threat would a be a bugsmasher going where it shouldn't be. A few little holes in the windscreen would send the message! :E :E :E

[Buster Hyman]

Oh...I only mentioned it because someone on the idiot box mentioned how the F18's were on full alert patrolling the skies over MEL & the footage showed a pretty clean set of wings...apart from drop tanks.:rolleyes:

[nannas_new_hip]

I'm pretty sure they would have been gunned up tonight. They definately have been previsouly when doing this sort of thing eg George Dubya in Canberra, CHOGM a few years back. They did some training flights over Melbourne the last few days and they weren't armed then. Check out the photos here (http://www.defence.gov.au/opacolyte/images/gallery/20060314/index.htm). Some great shots there too over the greatest city in the world. ;)

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I don't know what the rolling eyes are for Buster. Do you honestly think they would put CAP up and have nothing on board to actually take any action?

[Fragnasty]

The loadout for George W was 2 x AIM-120 AMRAAM, 2 x AIM-9M Sidewinders, and a full gunpack. I'd imagine they're carrying a similar load over ML, with ASRAAM onboard instead of the Sidewinders

[Taildragger67]

I don't know what the rolling eyes are for Buster. Do you honestly think they would put CAP up and have nothing on board to actually take any action?

Short answer? Yes.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise much if some Einstein in Russell did a 'risk assessment' and decided that carrying something which might inadvertently detach over a populated area was just too much for them to bear so purely internal ords only.

Now I know what common sense might say, but these are Canberra types we're talking about, so tell me it COULDN'T have happened...

[Buster Hyman]

:rolleyes:
The rolling eyes on the previous post was for the reporter who implied they were fully armed. The one on this post is for you!:p :ouch:

[CIA Stooge]

but these are Canberra types we're talking about, so tell me it COULDN'T have happened...
No Dragger, theses are DEFENCE types you're talking about - some (most) people in Canberra live in the real world.
With regard to the CAPs when Dubya was in town there were rumours for weeks afterwards that some poor guy chugging along at 10000 ft was intercepted and advised a detour was a good idea - never heard if it was true or not.

[Sunfish]

I sail out of a yachtclub next to williamstown police station, home of search and rescue, water police and and....

Then there is naval cadet base on the other side of the park. Its filled with big black rigid inflatables and lots of guys in camouflage gear and and...

Then there is Fort Gellibrand which is full of SAS and where I almost dived for cover the other day while watching a Blackhawk coming in at 100 kts to the hover at forty feet, which is quite a sight if you are only 25 metres away, and and.....

Then there was a destroyer anchored of Brighton last night, no less, a place not normally known as an anchorage, with search radar rotating, then there were the dozens of other "government" boats out last night. It would be interesting to speculate whether the destroyer or an F18 would have got you if you tried to leave Moorabbin last night and headed for the MCG.

translation: I won't go into detail for obvious reasons, but you should assume that there is a real threat, the F18's and everything else that moves is armed and ready. No one is taking any chances.

[Fragnasty]

Answer = not.

[Scumfish]

Any ideas which aerodrome the F18's are flying from?

[OZBUSDRIVER]

At least defence is relying on a hard paint rather than transponder returns.

[Sunfish]

I thought I heard YPCK but I could easily be wrong.

[Keg]

...but it takes a good 5-6 years to get to Hornets...

OTS- 17 weeks
BFTS- 6 months
2FTS- 9 months
Other stuff- 1 month

I'm a bit fuzzy on the actual time frames beyond that but I think it's something along the lines of:

Hawk conversion and associated flying- 6 months.
2OCU- 6 months.

All in all, possible to be 21 going on 22 but lucky to be any younger than that. My hats off the our ADF drivers. Worth every penny. :ok:

[Squawk7700]

I spotted 12 Hornets on the Ground plus a Herc or 2 at East Sale on Sunday. They have been swapping and changing over, based on fuel requirements. I heard that there are 2 on stand-by at Avalon, but I can't guarantee that.

Constantly in the air, on rotation. I was surprised to see so many there at once. Perhaps they need that many to keep the maintenance hours down to actually keep them flying constantly, not sure. With only 2 in the air at once with about a 10 minute flight from Sale to the MCG, I wonder why there is so many.

[VH-XXX]

Good friend in RAAF is flying Hornets at a few days younger than 21... he's done very well and has his head screwed on right. Had commercial lic prior to entry with MECIR too.

But that being said though, for everyone like him there's hundreds that wanted to get in at that age; luck was partially involved with his success; that and pilot dropouts from the job to airlines etc.

[nannas_new_hip]

No Dragger, theses are DEFENCE types you're talking about - some (most) people in Canberra live in the real world.
With regard to the CAPs when Dubya was in town there were rumours for weeks afterwards that some poor guy chugging along at 10000 ft was intercepted and advised a detour was a good idea - never heard if it was true or not.


Heard the same about an aircraft straying into the wrong areas during CHOGM. Will probably hear the same about Melbourne in a few weeks. Possibly crewroom tales. ;)

[Fragnasty]

"Good friend in RAAF is flying Hornets at a few days younger than 21... he's done very well and has his head screwed on right. Had commercial lic prior to entry with MECIR too."

...neither of which are useful in the world of military aviation.

[Keg]

Good friend in RAAF is flying Hornets at a few days younger than 21...

I assume that he's still on the conversion course and not checked out at a SQN? To have completed the CPL at minimum age (18) and then tick all the other boxes required for the OTS, BFTS, 2FTS, etc in under three years would suggest that not only is the kid an ace but the stars all lined up perfectly to ensure zero delays on any courses!

[Pinky the pilot]

Seem to remember a story published around 1980 in the now defunct 'Australasian Post' magazine about a 19 year old who was an F111 Pilot. If memory serves correctly the poor bloke was killed on a night flying excercise a few years later. May he RIP.

Usual signature deleted. In this case irrelevant.

[VH-XXX]

"I assume that he's still on the conversion course and not checked out at a SQN? To have completed the CPL at minimum age (18) and then tick all the other boxes required for the OTS, BFTS, 2FTS, etc in under three years would suggest that not only is the kid an ace but the stars all lined up perfectly to ensure zero delays on any courses!"

- Easy. I'll just ask him how he did it at his 21st party on Saturday and whether or not he's actually combat ready; possibly not, he would have said so otherwise I suspect.

[Dog One]

I would suggest that East Sale would be the base.

[Lord Snot]

Maybe the real heroes at Gellibrand aren’t the chicken-stranglers but the cut-lunch commandos who only have time for action on the weekends.

5 years to become a Hornet driver? *Cough* Bullsh!t!

I know guys who joined up at 18-18.5, got wings at 20 or so and were on the Hornet by 21-22. Big deal.

As for “Worth every penny…”:

I beg to differ. I got pretty good at F-15E Strike Eagle PC computer game and it had a flight-manual about as fat as my whatsit got whenever I played it.

It had functioning radar with all the modes (I can’t remember what they were called now) and all the missile-lock modes for swatting the bad guys. The strike eagle is a 2-seater but I did both jobs myself and it wasn’t that hard.

What a bunch of nerds, getting all juiced up over a Hornet flying endless boring laps around Melbourne and p!ssing into a empty choc-milk bottle.

[Taildragger67]

Seem to remember a story published around 1980 in the now defunct 'Australasian Post' magazine about a 19 year old who was an F111 Pilot. If memory serves correctly the poor bloke was killed on a night flying excercise a few years later. May he RIP.
Usual signature deleted. In this case irrelevant.

FLTLT Fallon - I remember him being on the cover of RAAF News when he went onto the line. Indeed RIP.

[king oath]

Hornets flying circles over Melbourne! Hey I'm frightened, I bet those nasty terrorists are quaking in their shoes.

The greatest over kill of all time.

[Sunfish]

Nice wind up Lord Snot. If this thread is still running when the games are over I have something to share.

[Buster Hyman]

Found another joystick to play with I guess.:rolleyes:

[tinpis]

Ahhhh....but were they upgraded to HUG Phase 2?

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jla0051l.jpg

[Keg]

Getting 'juiced up' Lord Snot? It is possible to admire the fiery hoops that people have to jump through in order to get where the ride they currently enjoy. Whilst the job at the moment may be as boring as all get out, I do have an inkling about what is required to get there and in that respect I still reckon that our air force pilots are worth every penny. I happen to know a few of them- both former and serving- and think they're under paid for what they put up with.

Sorry if that offends your sensibilities! :rolleyes: :* :yuk:

[Squawk7700]

Sunfish, please please share what you have to tell us. Don't wait until after the games!

This is a "rumour" network after all.

Do you have a good idea on how in infultrate game security or something?

[Sunfish]

Nup, but you wouldn't believe the depths the security services have gone to for the games.

[Magoodotcom]

Hornets flying circles over Melbourne! Hey I'm frightened, I bet those nasty terrorists are quaking in their shoes. The greatest over kill of all time.

:* The word idiot immediately springs to mind when I read this cr@p, along with several others I shant repeat in this august forum.

So, what would you prefer? No security presence at all except the plods and then have something like Munich happen. :eek: Then we'd look pretty freakin stupid huh? Sure, it's highly unlikely, but why risk it if you don't have to? It's not like we've had to employ temp pilots, crews and army types and had to rent the aircraft, ships, RHIBs, guns and bullets for the fortnight - they're being paid anyway, so why not use them for the cost of a few thousand pounds of fuel and some hotel rooms for the brass.

Geesh! A million :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: to you 'king oath'.

Magoo

[Buster Hyman]

Well, I was out n about in Niddrie last night. Nowhere near any venues or games facilities being in the North/West suburbs but there were Police stationed on a bridge over the Calder Freeway. Two officers standing on the bridge...overkill to some here, but I'm very happy that it appears that no stone is being left unturned. Remember, 6 years ago you wouldn't have considered commercial aircraft as a weapon!

Credit where credit is due.

[Captain Random]

Some Answers:

They are flying out of Sale

They are armed, the above mentioned load out is not far from the truth

19 years old is a bit ambitious but 20-21 is not out of the question.
It takes 3 years to become a Hornet driver not 5-6 as quoted.

The strict rules of engagement and the ultra-professional nature of the boys up there means that NO we do not have "trigger happy 19 year olds up there". Think yourselves lucky that we have these guys that slave for 12-14 hours a day for bugger all cash in order to keep our skies safe.

[Captain Random]

Oh and by the way Lord Snot

Either:

1. Nice wind up (I do enjoy a good wind up)

or

2. You have just joined the mass chorus of losers who hate Hornet pilots because you wanted to be one. All too common really

[WeekendWorrier]

translation: I won't go into detail for obvious reasons, but you should assume that there is a real threat, the F18's and everything else that moves is armed and ready. No one is taking any chances.Pfffft...I wouldn't believe that for one minute. This is the commonwealth games we're talking about - no one gives a flying turd about it. This is about public service arse-covering and defence egos playing with their big toys. It's a rare chance for them to carry on in a self-important manner and justifiably push everyone else around.

I'm tipping that within a day or so of the games ending there will be "alarming revelations", "leaked" to the media about how close it got to disaster, and how a serious threat to the games (opening ceremony/closing ceremony/insert event here) was averted only through the extensive security blanket....blah blah blah, in order to justify the ridiculously extraordinary amount of money spent on security. Back-patting all around, well done chaps, etc etc.

[nannas_new_hip]

Pfffft...I wouldn't believe that for one minute. This is the commonwealth games we're talking about - no one gives a flying turd about it. This is about public service arse-covering and defence egos playing with their big toys. It's a rare chance for them to carry on in a self-important manner and justifiably push everyone else around.
I'm tipping that within a day or so of the games ending there will be "alarming revelations", "leaked" to the media about how close it got to disaster, and how a serious threat to the games (opening ceremony/closing ceremony/insert event here) was averted only through the extensive security blanket....blah blah blah, in order to justify the ridiculously extraordinary amount of money spent on security. Back-patting all around, well done chaps, etc etc.



W**ker:ok:

[Lord Snot]

Of course I wanted to be a hornet pilot. Didn't you??

But to say they slave 12-14hrs a day is a bit rich - they are happy to do it because they love their job, unlike airline pilots.

And the producers of Strike Eagle claim realism to the extent that the fat, pimply, greasy nerds who developed it hopped into an F-15E simulator (USAF invitation) and flew it just fine so it's obviously a realistic representation of the real thing.

Hey what can I say, it wasn't that hard to operate F-15E. Obviously with my aptitude, I could've been a hornet pilot but like most airline pilots, I never finished high school so for me, life's a Beech.

[Fragnasty]

Pfffft...I wouldn't believe that for one minute. This is the commonwealth games we're talking about - no one gives a flying turd about it. This is about public service arse-covering and defence egos playing with their big toys. It's a rare chance for them to carry on in a self-important manner and justifiably push everyone else around.

WW... The ADF is there working because they have been directed to by the Government. What most people fail to realise is that in Australia, the Defence Forces work for the government of the day, and as such carry out the tasks they are ordered to do. With the time, expense, and training put into these aircraft and servicemen, it's certainly not a case of the boys wheeling out their toys.

Nanna is right on the money as far as you are concerned.

[Spotlight]

Dear Sunfish

My morning walks along a short part of the Yarra have led me to observe sinister looking types in rubber ducky's.

I dare not ring the Terror hotline for fear of having my phone tapped.

What to do? I mean, they may be us! Or they may be them!

CHOGM, CHOGM, CHOGM keeps reverberating in my mind.

[Captain Random]

Snot

Didnt I want to be one?

I am one!

[Keg]

Didnt I want to be one?

I am one!

ROFLMAO!! Snot has been TOLD! :E :}

[Lord Snot]

Of course you are, random, of course you are...... ;) That's why you are posting regularly here on pprune: because you have nothing better to do with your time. When you're not poling your hornet, that is!!

I reckon you're definitely poling something...

:rolleyes:

[Avtrician]

I doubt that F18 are running out of YPCK, tis a bit short for them and no Cable arrest system.

[Buster Hyman]

Ahh, but we kept the hooks on just in case!:ok:

[nannas_new_hip]

Of course you are, random, of course you are...... ;) That's why you are posting regularly here on pprune: because you have nothing better to do with your time. When you're not poling your hornet, that is!!
I reckon you're definitely poling something...
:rolleyes:



He's made 3 posts! Hardly regularly.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

But to say they slave 12-14hrs a day is a bit rich - they are happy to do it because they love their job, unlike airline pilots.
Airline pilots don't love their jobs ???

[Ex Douglas Driver]

Just to correct a previous post:
I'm pretty sure they would have been gunned up tonight. They definately have been previsouly when doing this sort of thing eg George Dubya in Canberra, CHOGM a few years back. They did some training flights over Melbourne the last few days and they weren't armed then.
The defence images below shows the jets are fully armed over Melbourne. Those pretty yellow and brown bands painted around the ASRAAMs means something.... and what are those AMRAAMs doing hiding under there?
http://www.defence.gov.au/opacolyte/images/gallery/20060314/index.htm

Thats enough flares in the face for a little while, certainly gets your attention. Enjoy your det to sunny Victoria lads!! :ok:

[Arm out the window]

There has been at least one 19-y-o Pig pilot, so certainly not impossible.

[Avtrician]

An look at those three big bombs hanging underneath, they gota be good for something:E:E:E

ok ,
helmet , G-suit, I'm going home;);)

[VH-XXX]

Just witnessed a Bell UH-1 Huey drop into the field behind the Shrine of Rememberance complete with armed Warriors. I know there are 12 Blackhawks at Laverton, but didn't know about any Huey's. Something must be going on! I need answers! He wasn't covert as he did a circuit first and he had all his strobes on so was clearly covert. Also saw an Army Kiowa (Jetranger) flying at around 200ft south-bound down the Nepean Highway yesterday. Better watch out Vanessa in the traffic watch R44!

Yes, I am jealous.

Oh and no guys - the Hornets ARE NOT at Point Cook. They are at East Sale where (if you read the Notams) there is an arrestor cable loaded and ready. (60 minute holding periods may apply, doh!)

[victor two]

Personally I couldn't care if there are hornets over Melbourne or not. If they were not patrolling Melbourne then they would just be flying mindlessly up and down the coast off NSW doing some other "specialist training" that actually will never be required in combat in the real world. So the state that they choose to fly over while they burn up tax payer dollars in not important, that money would be wasted regardless.

The fact is that if one was determined to use some sort of aircraft to attack a city then one would be just as happy to drive that hijacked aircraft into downtown Cairns, Perth, Darwin etc etc etc

The fact that some sort of athletics games are on is not a set pre-requisite for a major attack is it?? I don't think that terrorists choose to attack the most heavily defended locations just to make a point. Their point gets across very well regardless because the media would be just as happy to cover a major attack on Townsville or anywhere else. I mean, having a few fighters sent to Melbourne might be a fun posting for the crews for a few weeks but it is not going to prevent an attack on anywhere else is it?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I mean, having a few fighters sent to Melbourne might be a fun posting for the crews for a few weeks but it is not going to prevent an attack on anywhere else is it?

You've never been to East Sale, have you ? :E

If terrorists wanted to make there point, they get more shock value in striking something like the Commonwealth games, than the city normally.

It's a shame you see the high level of training hornet pilots get as a waste of money.

[Squawk7700]

Hey, c'mon, don't start slagging off my home town of Sale! Don't forget that they have Ringers night club, the Swing Bridge and now a new entertainment complex. Within a couple of years they might have a new swimming pool complex too.

Sale has a lot going for it... I'm just not sure what that is :O

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Sale would be a nice long term posting I think (although I dare say in the military not many would agree). Would love to buy a few hundred acres out there and live. Although I'll never ask to go there with the current aircraft that they have at RAAF East Sale :)

Ringers... ha.... I still remember the feeling of walking in and the music stopping and everyone looking at me and my mates... (as the American Western style movie swinging doors creeked in the background). :}

[Squawk7700]

Well I heard on good authority on a very professional website that they are currently operating a fleet of 12 Hornets out of Sale :)

True you are though; unless you wanna drive a PC9 there ain't much else. There was a few Super Kingairs around, but since the 748's left, aircraft are almost few and far between at the moment.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Don't want to fly the KingAir...

You only go to Sale to do instructor course.. then Tamworth or Pearce... you can get back years later to be an instructor of instructors , but I don't want to instruct. I don't even like explaining things to the copilot :}

[Keg]

If they were not patrolling Melbourne then they would just be flying mindlessly up and down the coast off NSW doing some other "specialist training" that actually will never be required in combat in the real world.

I'm not a RAAFie so I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think they went to Iraq a few years back to play tiddly-winks! :E

I don't even like explaining things to the copilot :}

From what you were saying previously PAFie, that isn't even a problem at the moment is it or has Fort Fumble changed in recent times to now include co-pilots in the mix? :}

[Sunfish]

I'm starting to get confused about exactly what ships we have here at present. I thought it was two Anzac class, then I saw the Melbourne (Oliver Hazard Perry class).

Wednesday night one of them was off Brighton where it could nail anything coming from Moorabbin, one was at Station pier and one ?????

Sailing on saturday I encountered an Anzac class anchored off Portarlington with a fine view of Avalon and to the North, mit search radar rotating. I could have sworn there was still one at Station Pier. Then there is a minesweeper anchored in the Yarra. Don't know where the Navy dive boat went.

Brain getting tired. Perhaps after the games someone will write about the command and control procedure and what was really deployed and why.........or perhaps not.

This is definitely not a jolly for some bored defence types. Same for the police. Hope you guys have a good party afterwards.

[nannas_new_hip]

If they were not patrolling Melbourne then they would just be flying mindlessly up and down the coast off NSW doing some other "specialist training" that actually will never be required in combat in the real world.
See http://www.defence.gov.au/opfalconer/images/gallery/160403/160403.htm So how shall you eat your words, heated or not?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

I'm not a RAAFie so I'm not 100% sure on this but I don't think they went to Iraq a few years back to play tiddly-winks!

Exactly. The guys did what they were paid for.

[Lord Snot]

The guys did what they were paid for.Well not exactly. The yanks wanted certain things converted into rubble and on several occasions "the boys" refused. They haven't had the chance to make up for it since.

It was the yanks' show and the aussies knocked back what any good ol' boy from stateside would happily have done. The media here attempted to make something out of it at the time, but failed dismally because no one cared.

That pic of the hornets over Melbourne shows a p!ss-weak break. Why isn't she bending it at 90degrees like a real man would???

[Point0Five]

I don't see what Australia employing stricter ROE than the yanks has to do with whether the boys did what they were paid for or not.

Also, I certainly don't think any of the guys feel the need to "make up for" anything either.

Bit of a pointless post from Lord Snot really...:hmm:

[nannas_new_hip]

It just adds to the ****e that Lord Snot has posted in this topic.

[nannas_new_hip]

Well not exactly. The yanks wanted certain things converted into rubble and on several occasions "the boys" refused. They haven't had the chance to make up for it since.


And I'd say that the benefactors from the CAS missions that the hornets flew over Iraq would argue that.

[TruBlu351]

Well not exactly. The yanks wanted certain things converted into rubble and on several occasions "the boys" refused. They haven't had the chance to make up for it since.
It was the yanks' show and the aussies knocked back what any good ol' boy from stateside would happily have done. The media here attempted to make something out of it at the time, but failed dismally because no one cared.
That pic of the hornets over Melbourne shows a p!ss-weak break. Why isn't she bending it at 90degrees like a real man would???

Take it from me weed brain (and I am authorised to talk on the topic), you'd have ZERO aptitude required to fly a Hornet and I'd enjoy crushing you along the way...you would be weeded out and back infront of your PC within seconds. Your cyberspace perception of reality is nothing short of a joke.

Trust me, flying your 1G super stressful armchair is just like the real thing :8

Oh, in the real world when your panties bunch up, you can't turn your modem off or resporn on your game.

[TruBlu351]

Hornets flying circles over Melbourne! Hey I'm frightened, I bet those nasty terrorists are quaking in their shoes.
The greatest over kill of all time.

Really? Your small naive mind is the real greatest worry. It only takes some nutbag with a small light aircraft to fly into a 90,000 packed MCG to make a real statement. But that's HIGHLY improbable.

With Australia's involvement on the world stage in recent years, there are plenty of goups with chips on their shoulders :ok:

OK, so king oath is "king" for a day and has made an "oath" to protect his 20,000,000+ people. What's your preventitive security plan to the potential here?

You were obviously never a good boy scout!..........Be Prepared.

[TruBlu351]

Pfffft...I wouldn't believe that for one minute. This is the commonwealth games we're talking about - no one gives a flying turd about it. This is about public service arse-covering and defence egos playing with their big toys. It's a rare chance for them to carry on in a self-important manner and justifiably push everyone else around.
I'm tipping that within a day or so of the games ending there will be "alarming revelations", "leaked" to the media about how close it got to disaster, and how a serious threat to the games (opening ceremony/closing ceremony/insert event here) was averted only through the extensive security blanket....blah blah blah, in order to justify the ridiculously extraordinary amount of money spent on security. Back-patting all around, well done chaps, etc etc.

Another "really"!?

Hmmm.......Commonwealth Games = Worldwide coverage.

There's a term called "economy of effort". ie: Large bang for a small buck. Tell me what better forum there is at the moment for the "bad guys" to wave a terrorist flag at?

When will you guys get with the program! :confused:

[TruBlu351]

[QUOTE=Pass-A-Frozo] Although I'll never ask to go there with the current aircraft that they have at RAAF East Sale :) [QUOTE]

And just what's so wrong with the mighty CT-4 :ok:

[rmcdonal]

And just what's so wrong with the mighty CT-4
Did you just answer your own question? :} :E :ok:

[Squawk7700]

It amazes me how I posted on PPrune like 6 months ? ago when I was able to fly my light aircraft overhead the MCG within 1 minute of the final goal of the AFL Grand Final when conducting some city orbits... and NOBODY cared! I was literally watching ground play from the big screen on the western wall from 1,500ft!

I barely got a response and the only comments were that I must be a terrorist if I was thinking about that stuff. Now we have a few international visitors and the lives of 90,000+ people become a whole lot more important. Beats the hell out of me why they didn't do the same thing for the GF.

[Sunfish]

Squawk. from the amount of security work that has been done, starting last September, the threats have been judged as credible. Some real money has been spent by both State and Federal Governments, and the cooperation between police and the defence force is something to see. I'm not sure what the hourly rate for a Blackhawk is, but they have been using up plenty of hours in the training.

The bit that surprised me last Wednesday was seeing "defence in depth", its not just the F18's, there are layers of defence to stop your hypothetical light aircraft flying into the MCG or anything else going bang somewhere in Melbourne.

It doesn't "matter" if you fly into a packed MCG on Grand Final day because its a purely local matter unless you happen to be a muslim, in which case you are the latest terrorist martyr in the "war on terror", and are hence newsworthy.

Anyway if you did, and only killed Collingwood supporters, no one would care.

[victor two]

Yes yes yes children, I am aware that we sent a few jets to iraq. However, what they actually achieved while they were there and the real value of their presence remains a mystery. Iraq then was a bit like Melbourne now really. Go along.....be seen .......but don't really do much.

There is a slight difference in being at the grand final and kicking six goals as opposed to sitting on the reserve bench watching someone else play.

Get the idea?

[Pass-A-Frozo]

It amazes me how I posted on PPrune like 6 months ? ago when I was able to fly my light aircraft overhead the MCG within 1 minute of the final goal of the AFL Grand Final when conducting some city orbits... and NOBODY cared! I was literally watching ground play from the big screen on the western wall from 1,500ft!
I barely got a response and the only comments were that I must be a terrorist if I was thinking about that stuff. Now we have a few international visitors and the lives of 90,000+ people become a whole lot more important. Beats the hell out of me why they didn't do the same thing for the GF.

A terrorist wouldn't embarass himself by attacking an AFL event. :}

[luvmuhud]

TruBlu351,

Nice retorts dude! Are you sure you didn't sneak across to Paris Island and get some one-liners from the Drill Instructors when you were in NC???

I'm sure that if Lord Snot and his fellow 'gamers' actually got a ride in the tub, they'd end up being dragged out of the seat in the fetal position by the firies once back in the lines. (Just ask the cheezy-eye about his ride late last year!) It's surprising what a few 'shoot-crank-flow' iterations while in IMC can do to force some humble pie into a blunt's mouth!

Cheers Bro.


Victor Two - can you confirm you have named yourself after an air-route?????

[FishHead]

TruBlu et al,

Dont rise to the bait - some posters are just playing with you now...

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Hey, c'mon, don't start slagging off my home town of Sale! Don't forget that they have Ringers night club, the Swing Bridge and now a new entertainment complex.

Just a shame that the bridge and the club don't swap first letters........

oh hang on, that's what Tindal's for......

[TruBlu351]

TruBlu351,
Nice retorts dude! Are you sure you didn't sneak across to Paris Island and get some one-liners from the Drill Instructors when you were in NC???

Hehe :E
Yeah good old "SC"....you could hear those buggers from my house several miles away!

[TruBlu351]

Yes yes yes children, I am aware that we sent a few jets to iraq. However, what they actually achieved while they were there and the real value of their presence remains a mystery. Iraq then was a bit like Melbourne now really. Go along.....be seen .......but don't really do much.
There is a slight difference in being at the grand final and kicking six goals as opposed to sitting on the reserve bench watching someone else play.
Get the idea?

V2, it's only a mystery to you and FYI, there wasn't much bench sitting. So you can be content that the boys played good "footy" there with some heavier than normal footballs that I wouldn't want to mark :ok:

[And Then]

V2, it's only a mystery to you and FYI, there wasn't much bench sitting. So you can be content that the boys played good "footy" there with some heavier than normal footballs that I wouldn't want to mark :ok:

If it was so bloody sporting mate, how come the Iraqis weren't shooting back? Push button killing from the flight levels. Yawn.

[nannas_new_hip]

Yes yes yes children, I am aware that we sent a few jets to iraq. However, what they actually achieved while they were there and the real value of their presence remains a mystery. Iraq then was a bit like Melbourne now really. Go along.....be seen .......but don't really do much.
There is a slight difference in being at the grand final and kicking six goals as opposed to sitting on the reserve bench watching someone else play.
Get the idea?

Mate my thoughts of you are probably about the same as my thoughts on WeekendWorrier. It is obvious you have little understanding of the roles that our crews performed on Op Falconer, and thats probably because little has been put out in the public domain regarding this. But rest assured, they offered plenty of bang for their buck, especially considering the relatively small deployment. They weren't as you put it 'sitting on the reserve bench waiting for someone else to play'. :ok:

[ruprecht]

Trublu & luvmuhudmonkey,

If you are fighter pilots, then I would have thought that you could discriminate between legitimate threats and decoys. Knuck-baiting; is there anything easier?:)

Enjoy your gingerbread.

ruprecht.

[Keg]

Whilst I'm an admirer of the work of the RAAF, what it does, and the way it does it, I did hear a rumour that an Aussie exchange pilot on the F-15E was only a couple of sorties short of eclipsing the payload dropped by the entire RAAF F18 detachment. Any truth to that one? :}

[nannas_new_hip]

Probably depends on how long the exchange was for. 160 combat sorties for approx 120 GBU-10/12's delivered isn't too bad of an average. :}

[TruBlu351]

If it was so bloody sporting mate, how come the Iraqis weren't shooting back? Push button killing from the flight levels. Yawn.

Yep, probably was a wrong choice of words......killing anyone isn't sporting......shooting back or not. A little peace in the world never goes astray :)

[Selac66]

You knucks should leave the right and wrong stuff to the politicians and the electorate - it's unseemly to bang on about why you are there. You don't want to be seen like MH do you?

[Whizzwheel]

If we want REAL bang-for-buck, why aren't the F-111s over Melbourne? Can't they carry as much fuel as a Hornet weighs, and have more weapon stations? They're much faster too, so could intercept any threat in less time...isn't that what we're after?:confused:

[Runway37]

How fast does a Cheiftain go loaded with pindemonium nitrate? 200 knots? (Forgive me if that's too fast, however it could be any aircraft)

With a 40 mile exclusion zone @ 200 knots... 200/40 = 5 minutes.

They'd wanna be awfully fast F111's to catch an aircraft at that speed. Lets say it took off from a field just on the boundary, kept at very low level; "potentially" it may go undetected for a short period, say a minute, then the RAAF controller has a short amount of time to scramble an F111 or FA18 to first find the theoretical Cheiftain, then await instructions from Police Commissioner Christine Nixon.

So if it's detected within a minute of entering airspace and identified as a potential threat (how long do they try and call it for before it becomes a threat?) then they have 3.5 minutes to intercept it, identify it, determine that it is actually hostile, try and contact it, line it up and shoot it down, preferably over a non population dense area...

What if someone had a stack of mannicans (dummy's) in it... it would look like a charter flight?

How long does a missile take from a destroyer parked at Brighton to intercept a 200 knot Chieftain flying at 100ft agl that could be 15 miles away?

So many questions to answer, so few answers...

WAS 40 miles big enough?

OR was it just a blanket "enter and get shot down" policy...?

Has anyone on here flown an FA18 or F111, is this even possible?

FYI: My question is purely theoretical; just for discussions sake.

[Sunfish]

Ummm, F111's carry bombs, they are not interceptors. I guess they could attempt to crash into your theoretical Navaho, but the resulting wreckage sort of defeats the whole idea.
Rockets are exceedingly fast and have been known to shoot down aircraft.
Think 120 knots - two miles a minute - 40 miles = 20 minutes from outside radius to centre.
Moorabbin to MCG 10 miles - say six minutes = keep very close watch on this den of iniquity.
Defence in depth:
ASIC's
New Fence
Aircraft Locks
Destroyer
F18's
And perhaps one or two other things as well for good measure.
I'm going to paste my ASIC on the tail of my aircraft where the rocket can see it.:p :p

[victor two]

Don't get me wrong as I think that our ADF people do a great job. What I won't agree to is this notion that the few hornets we sent to Iraq were anything other than a gesture of our support to the global war on terror, which seems to have become something far less defined these days.

I feel that the herc transport crews who are still in and out of that hole today deserve more credit than a couple of fighter pilots patrolling the skies against threats that were probably never really threats at all and coming home to parades and flashy unit badges saying that they have dropped bombs "in anger".

I don't care if some knob in Canberra named it "Operation Falconer's Sword Restore Freedom Desert Scorpion Darth Vader", the truth is they dropped ahandful of (borrowed) bombs on non retaliating targets in sanitised airspace well away from the dangerous bits.

All I'm seeing here is another knob in canberra coming up with a flashy unit patch for the valiant crews who are risking their lives in the hostile sky over the MCG.

Gimme a break.

And No, my online is not derived from an airway but a taxiway where I once had a happy moment.

cheers

[Sunfish]

Ummm, Victor, I think you might be being a tad harsh here.

[Hugh Jarse]

Naaaah, Sunfish. I'd say 36 or 37SQN:} :} :suspect:

[nannas_new_hip]

Borrowed bombs? They'd have a damn hard time of giving them back!

[TruBlu351]

How fast does a Cheiftain go loaded with pindemonium nitrate? 200 knots? (Forgive me if that's too fast, however it could be any aircraft)
With a 40 mile exclusion zone @ 200 knots... 200/40 = 5 minutes.

Put my coke bottle glasses on........ :8

200kts = 3.3 miles/minute (200/60) so 40 miles takes 12 minutes :ok:

You're right though, it's a very complex issue with minimal time.

F111 = not an option. Their radar and avionics have rats running in wheels and steam driven pistons :}

[7gcbc]

Don't get me wrong as I think that our ADF people do a great job. What I won't agree to is this notion that the few hornets we sent to Iraq were anything other than a gesture of our support to the global war on terror, which seems to have become something far less defined these days.

'Onya Victor Two, bout bloody time someone said it.

Sick of these politikians who just ignore international law, do what they want and have no bloody shame, MCG F-18's is just PR grandstanding, any terrorist worth their salt would be looking at cement trucks rather than cessna's.....

and of course, we all know the terrorists are just amateurs, just ask the seppo's after a 3 year illegal war in Iraq, check out the IED's they have evolved more in 30 months in Iraq than they did in 300 months in Palestine and Northern Ireland.

yeah right, its all going well..........

[Keg]

lol. Even Saddams generals thought they had WMD. They got the shock of their lives in the immediate time before the conflict when they discovered that had zero, zippo, zilch, nada, none, nought. :p So if the Iraqi generals thought they had them, how unreasonable was it to think that the rest of the world thought they had them too! :ok:

[rmcdonal]

check out the IED's they have evolved more in 30 months in Iraq than they did in 300 months in Palestine and Northern Ireland.
"Necessity is the Mother of Invention."

[Pass-A-Frozo]

What I find most amusing about this entire thread is that a topic about F/A-18's is in the General Aviation thread :}

"Light twin??" :p

[7gcbc]

lol. Even Saddams generals thought they had WMD. They got the shock of their lives in the immediate time before the conflict when they discovered that had zero, zippo, zilch, nada, none, nought. :p So if the Iraqi generals thought they had them, how unreasonable was it to think that the rest of the world thought they had them too! :ok:

or so initially we are led to believe Keg, however as sucessive arms inspectors turned up little, and in particular european arms and Un arms inspectors were pariahed and discredited as part of a US republican modus operandi, then in my humble opnion, the west , and in particular the US intelligence services , and in most particular the US politicans were played at their own game of misinformation and brinkmanship, and SH proved the better.

Sure, SH lost the war (battle) of Iraq, but the next few years will tell whether the US have the stomach to stick it out, I don't think they do, and that will make it soo soo much worse than it is now.

And the delightful thing from my personal perspective, is that the arrogance of the US precludes them from asking the only body that could help them out, the UN, whom the US has consistantly tried to discredit and dishonour.

well you makes your bed and you lies in it.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

The "power vacuum" is always a problem. Typically that has lead to appeasement . Not a good thing in my belief. I think if you asked Saddam now he would have played his cards differently. What was the alternative? Certainly there still is an argument that he had time to hide off his WMD's. Lets be honest here, he was given lots of advanced notice and had the equivilent of Western Australia (or let's say... Syria!) to hide them. Sat technology is great, but you can log onto a website right now and find when US military sat's are flying over your place..

[7gcbc]

Helen Thomas just asked the questions Tonight.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

now there is a balanced journalist.. :rolleyes:

[nannas_new_hip]

The "power vacuum" is always a problem. Typically that has lead to appeasement . Not a good thing in my belief. I think if you asked Saddam now he would have played his cards differently. What was the alternative? Certainly there still is an argument that he had time to hide off his WMD's. Lets be honest here, he was given lots of advanced notice and had the equivilent of Western Australia (or let's say... Syria!) to hide them. Sat technology is great, but you can log onto a website right now and find when US military sat's are flying over your place..


CHING CHING! You could be onto something there Frozo. ;) :ok:

[Sunfish]

Lets hope that this is an academic argument that ends in a big P1ss up for all concerned.

[Squawk7700]

Sunfish, go ahead and let us know what you were going to tell us once the Closing Ceremony was over...

Something about security...

The forces (Protective Services and DOTARS) were out in force yesterday monitoring the outerlying airfields. Obviously nothing happened by the looks of things. Didn't get a look to see if any destroyers were in town.

[Woomera]

I hear the whisper that the deployment is to beat up Sale late this afternoon in two boxes and then head off home to Willytower.

All's well that ends well it seems.

[Buster Hyman]

beat up Sale
Is that like what happened to the Pong Su???:eek:

[Sunfish]

Re security: I've decided I'll shut up because I wasn't supposed to know anyway, its none of my business, and I've checked and it isn't in the public domain. Should it enter the public domain, it would be a different story.

[Buster Hyman]

Perhaps it was the incursion by the secret security forces of Sierra Leone?:confused: :} :ouch:

[7gcbc]

Correct Sun,

by the way, "The Colonel is in the watchtower, and Danny boy is calling Broadsword, I repeat, Danny Boy is calling Broadsword"

:suspect: