RAF pilot training ...... yes or no?

[Danny_manchester]

Hi folks, here is my dilemma, basically looking to go into the RAF, looks like a good idea to me at this moment in time, want to go to Uni first, get a degree then start with the RAF, just have a few questions for you RAF lot on here :eek: :-

1) medical requirements, i have a heart condition, i am guessing this could possible put the blocks on my ideas at the start?

2) I wouldn't want to be in the RAF as a rotary pilot, what are the chances of being put onto rotary a/c? would i be informed before i signed up after aptitude tests etc.. ?

Thanks guys, thanks in advance! :ok:

[southside]

What job are you looking to do in the RAF? Chances are that with a heart condition you will be offered something in Admin. You may not want to fly RW but with a heart condition yr not gonna fly anything...sorry !

[cazatou]

1. Go to your Doctor and get a precis of your condition and present it to the Recruiting Office.

2. See if that is a bar to employment as aircrew.

3.THEN see how that would affect your prospects.

[airborne_artist]

In fact I'd be quite surprised if the RAF, or any of the Services, took you at all, even in a non-flying role, I'm afraid. They wouldn't want to take the risk that your existing condition worsened.

[Danny_manchester]

well it has been 'stable' for 17 years, and i have an appt to check it out, i have lots of things to offer, and am a very strong academic also.

Thanks for the input people.

[Danny_manchester]

You may not want to fly RW but with a heart condition yr not gonna fly anything...sorry !

You say that asif its fact, when it clearly isn't. each individual will be looked at as an individual case i would imagine - not very constructive SS. :rolleyes:

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I wouldn't want to be in the RAF as a rotary pilot

With an attitude like that, sonny, you'd be out the door of OASC and in the bus back to Grantham station before they found out about your medical condition!

You should consider yourself lucky to become an RAF pilot of any variety, and you'd bloody well enjoy it.

Good luck in your future career.

[southside]

Im sorry but experience has shown me that if you have so much as a flutter during your ECG you are handing in your ID card the next day. I can recall countless stories of guys walking back from the sickbay with their shoulders drooped having been told that the ECG has picked up a very slight abnormality and thats it.... grounded.


You may be right...and he may have some sort of genetic heart defect which will allow him to fly but I'll be surprised...



and whilst Im at it..... concur Fg Off MS...

[Danny_manchester]

With an attitude like that, sonny, you'd be out the door of OASC and in the bus back to Grantham station before they found out about your medical condition!


LMAO, im sorry but i would look at the situation this way :-

The RAF would be lucky to have me as an applicant, may seem to be big headed, and i know that many people will not agree with me, but i would want to be in the RAF, not for any other reason bar the training quality.

I think i am definatly better off asking a professional in the recruiting process for the RAF - i do appreciate your time in replying, but your replies are far from constructive.

"With an attitude like that, sonny, you'd be out the door of OASC and in the bus back to Grantham station before they found out about your medical condition!"

^ Now that is definatly not a response from a person with a single brain cell, never mind huge brain-power, Im guessing academic req's. were not 'in' when you got into the RAF? (presuming you are in the RAF):rolleyes:

[southside]

The RAF would be lucky to have me as an applicant, may seem to be big headed, and i know that many people will not agree with me, but i would want to be in the RAF, not for any other reason bar the training quality.



Hmmmm.... The RAF would be lucky to have you...??????

You only want to join because of the quality of training..??????

I think that the next time I come across you I'll be asking you....

"Can I have Fries with that please?"

[Danny_Boy]

You have asked for some advice, and received it from serving members of the Forces who know the score. It would appear that if you don't agree with what they say you simply discount it. With the attitude that is coming across in your threads you won't even get to OASC - they have filter interviews first you know! The RAF is not 'lucky' to have someone like you interested in a career - they have done well enough without you so far haven't they? There is more to being an officer (or airman) than intellience/academic achievement.

[The Rocket]

You do appear to be a well balanced young man.

Having, as you do, a rather large chip on both shoulders. :rolleyes:

[Aerospace101]

Danny,

There are around 10,000 applicants each year for less than 100 spaces. If any applicant has the minor of medical 'issues' they'll be out the doors. I'm afraid that's the way the system works.

The fact that it is SO hard to get in, anyone is happy to get any pilot role, whether multis or rotary.

It's ok to feel a bit big headed, i know many who still are and are in. But just because you have a lot to offer, so do all the other applicants-- some of the highest calibre of individuals this country has to offer. So dont think that you deserve a place with the raf! or they have to thank you for applying (cause they dont give a toss, with over 10,000 applicants!!!)

I may be wrong but you sound like you are one who wants to be 'raf trained' then head off down civvy street? If this is the case, joining the raf is more than just about being trained as a pilot.

Get an interview with a raf careers officer and apply to OASC, good luck!

[Bob Viking]

Since everyone else is giving the lad negative vibes at the moment I'll just spread a quick ray of sunshine.
I was found to have a 'left axis deviation' on my initial ECG and still got in once they realised it was a very minor and irrelevant problem (I think it means my heart tilts slightly to the left and sounded a bit funny as a result!).
Hasn't stopped me so far!
Good luck anyway fella, though remember to listen to guys when they offer advice and don't jump down their throats. It'll get you absolutely nowhere!
BV

[rooftopartist]

Please danny boy, do let us know if you actually get OASC dates, can't wait to find out if I'm there at the same time as you!

[Danny_manchester]

Aero, you seem to be a pretty cool chap, you obviously understand the situation. I know that i am recieving views of people who should have a general idea about requirements etc. which, believe it or not i do appreciate, however i do not think that some of the things people come out with are constructive comment.

I will contact my careers centre at college, and have her give me some information - hopefully talk with somebody from the RAF, and i will post on this thread the result of any developments.

I am still not convinced that a medical condition such as the one i have will count me out from a career as a pilot in the RAF - but hey, thats my un-qualified opinion!

I know a place in the RAF is not based on academia, thats pretty evident, and i do not believe that i am somehow entitled to a place in the RAF, but i wouldn't say that i should be lucky to get a sniff in at the RAF, as the RAF need people who are strong academics, allbeit coupled with a pilots attributes.

Anyhow, i will post as soon as i get some more info. on my current situation!

Thanks people.:ok:

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Danny, despite our 'direct' comments we're trying to give you good gen. You have asked a question in a forum where a lot of current frontline military aircrew (as opposed to spotters, blaggers etc) hang out. You may not like the answers but you'd do well to take them on board. A few points:

The RAF would be lucky to have me as an applicant
You may think that, but you've got it the wrong way round. The RAF flying branch is fiercely competitive. I think about 1 in 10000 interview applicants ever get to fly a frontline aircraft. Go in with the 'lucky to have me' attitude and you won't make it to OASC.

I think i am definatly better off asking a professional in the recruiting process for the RAF - i do appreciate your time in replying, but your replies are far from constructive.
Actually, you may not like the replies, but they are correct. Also, poor spelling will count against your application.

^ Now that is definatly not a response from a person with a single brain cell, never mind huge brain-power, Im guessing academic req's. were not 'in' when you got into the RAF?
For a guy who is 'a very strong academic' I seem to have more English Language brain cells than you. In fact I have a degree in Aero Eng from one of the most respected Aero Eng institutions in the world, so if you come looking for help, be careful who you shoot your mouth of to.

You may not want to fly RW but with a heart condition yr not gonna fly anything...sorry !You say that asif its fact, when it clearly isn't. each individual will be looked at as an individual case i would imagine - not very constructive
Sorry chap, but there are people here who know more about military aviation than you. That is why you are asking us the questions.

My comment about rotary is based on personal experience. At the end of Initial Officer Training, (Fast Jet Friday, ISTR), when I was told (NB you don't choose, you are told) that I had been streamed RW, I was devastated and came close to requesting voluntary withdrawal, to head off to the airlines. This was based on the FJ or nothing culture - in hindsight a very poor attitude. However, I chose not to be impulsive, stuck with it and discovered that rotary flying is probably the most exciting flying you will ever do. Throwing a big powerful machine around at low level, going on operations to the frontline and beyond (as opposed to a hotel 500 miles behind the FL), and living the SH life is unbeatable. Take my advice, which has been learnt from personal experience:


Don't close off ANY options at your age, or better still, until retirement age.
Show a bit of respect for the people who actually do what you dream of doing.
Swallow your pride, get real, wind your neck in and listen to good advice.
Consider yourself lucky if you get invited to OASC, and continue to count yourself lucky at every stage thereon, until you are in a frontline cockpit


Southside, for the first time we see eye to eye. I'll pop some champagne!

[Danny_manchester]

English isn't my particular strong point, however physics math and chemistry are! :p

a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics :cool:.

Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do :),

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Take on board the points, Danny, and good luck.

[Danny_manchester]

P.s. Thanks Bob :ok:

[Danny_manchester]

As i said, points taken in, i will report back to this thread when i get any further. :ok:

[Spacer]

I must say that this guy sounds like he's fishing :) Its a nice try, but I can't believe anybody could be so much up their own bottom!

[k3k3]

What a condescending little toad.

Wichser!

[Spacer]

PS: Just one career tip: Why not try joining the UAS at Manchester? But, I wouldn't go there with the attitude of "they would be lucky to have me", because you'll be talking to a closed door soon enough.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Danny, its late, and I am convinced that you are a wind up but I just couldn't help but reply.

If I were you I would go to the careers office and ask for the Shawbury arrival instructions so that you can commence RW training asap, as you are quite clearly able to walk on water unaided, in the dark. You clearly dont need to go through OASC, IOT et al as you seem to know everyhting there is to know. You received honest and frank responses to your medical query and it seems to me that you just dont want to accept it, and then have the audacity to claim they aren't constructive. The RAF owes you nothing and as has already been pointed out there are enough applicants with quiet determination and a healthy amount of humility, neither of which you have demonstrated.

You claim English isnt your strong point, well thats quite apparent, but "physics, chemistry and maths" are, well you sound like a barrell of laughs my old. No offence, but I suggest you f:mad: k off and come back, nicely, when you have wound your neck firmly back in, until it is back on your chipped shoulders.

In answer to your original question, I am confident that pigs will fly for the RAF before you do, and that is notwithstanding your medical condition.

Damn it............reel me in!

[joe2812]

...a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics :cool:. ...

Yeah you're right, so all the chemists can design, build and maintain the the aircraft you probably won't be flying in the future?

OOI, you're about to go to Uni but you haven't visited an AFCO yet? This been a lifelong ambition of yours?

Shed-loads of good info from people who won't give you the recruitment spin, always been helpful for me and many others, might want to calm down dear?

Good luck.

From a current Aero Eng student... :hmm:

[Norwester]

Thankyou Danny Boy for providing me with an entertaining read this lunchtime!

You have been given good advice on here. You asked a question in the thread title, "yes or no"? My answer would be no based on their replies.

[AllTrimDoubt]

In answer to your initial question - NO !! You've been offered some excellent advice from current military aircrew and your response would indicate that Service life is not for you without some fairly major adjustments on your part, some of which might be medically impossible for you to achieve.

(Failing that, I'll chop you Sonny!)

:D :D

[eagle 86]

Think about another career path Danny boy!
GAGS E86

[The Swinging Monkey]

Danny (manchester)
I'm afraid that the majority of whats been written here is absolutely true, and if you DO or HAVE had a 'Dodgy Ticker' then you can forget a military flying career. You might be the cleverest guy on the planet, and be Gods gift to the RAF, but I'm afraid your medical condition (and probably your attitude) will NOT permit you to fly one of HM Aircraft!

I would also suggest that you need to temper your attitude somewhat. A lot of folks on this forum are experienced military aviators (like myself) who don't take kindly to big-headed and arrogant young men who are looking to join us. Have no doubts that the folks at Cranditz read this site and especially the Military Aircrew one! and I would think your info is already noted somewhere!

Just because the replies on here are not what you want to hear does not make them invalid, indeed, the majority are correct. Even Southside, who I rarely agree with, has got it 100% correct.

I am afraid that the answer to your original question is a resounding NO!

Kind regards
TSM

[anotherthing]

Right chaps,

firstly, we know that danny M has a heart condition, he does not state what it is,therefore we cannot judge whether he would get in or not.

I should know, I had a heart condition and flew for the RN, I still have the heart condition and now hold a CAA class one medical, without any conditions attached to it.

Until he illuminates us with what exactly the problem is, and unless there is a medic around, we cannot categorically state he will not get in.

What we can say is the the 'condition' that will preclude him from joining is his attitude - i'm afraid I can't think of a cure for it.

Danny,

You join the services first and foremost as an Officer (If joining the RN or RAF to be a pilot). This is your first duty - serving the Queen.

If you are good enough you will fly helos, otherwise you may go fast jet(!).

Whatever flying job you do, you will have a hell of a good time and receive some of the best training around.

Unfortunately, with your arrogant attitude, I doubt if you will get past the initial careers office interview, never mind OASC and certainly not flying training.

Maybe you should try looking elsewhere to offer your excellent skills, you sound far too good and far too qualified (by your own reckoning), to earn what amounts to very little money in the military sector, for a fair bit of hardship.


How about world domination as a starter?

[The Swinging Monkey]

anotherthing,
I agree with your sentiments old boy, but the sad fact remains that in todays military (certainly in the RAF) even iff you have a whiff of something serious, then you won't get in. I know several people who made the mistake of admitting to having had hay-fever as a child, and bang! - no thanks!

You must have seen it in the navy in recent times?

I agree with you holding a CAA class 1 medical - indeed I also know some friends that are in a similar predicament, but we all know that the RAF and the RN (and probably the AAC) can afford to be unbelievably 'picky' about who they choose, and I'm certain that they have a remit which would preclude Danny manchester for getting in. What was acceptable when you and I joined are just not acceptable now.

Agree entirely about his attitude, complete non-starter in my books also.
Kind regards
TSM

[Tourist]

Just let me get this straight.

He is:
1. Arrogant
2. Has an inflated sense of his own importance
3. Knows everything
4. Looks down upon the rotary world
5. Refuses to accept advice given by experts

Sounds like a Fast Jet pilot to me!:E

[rooftopartist]

Danny, as I said earlier I look forward to meeting you at OASC, that is if the RAF is lucky enough to be honoured by your presence at all.

While as others have mentioned it's down to the medics to make the final decision upon your condition; just be prepared to be classed as Permanently Unfit for most jobs in the air force. I have two mates who were at one point pronounced 'fit aircrew roles' by OASC, yet within the space of 2 years they have both now been classed as Permanently Unfit as aircrew, before they've even got to IOT. One for having a headache/possible migraine when he was 7, the other for a mild heart condition that only became evident with an ECG.

Moreover, these fellas just wanted to be pilots in the air force and would've been honoured to fly any of the RAF's aircraft, they certainly don't have the brown ring around their necks where their heads haven't been up their own arses while pre-streaming themselves.

If you can wind your neck in, there's a box down here with your name on it, get back in it and don't upset those quiet hopefuls who'd be flattered to be even offered a place on IOT never mind 'not in a RW aircraft'.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Rooftopp!ssartist, and your point is??? I can't quite tell whether you are sticking up for Danny or not, but then again I am not very clever, dont have a degree in Physics/Chemistry like our man Danny Manc, I merely got a humble Aero Eng degree;)

What is it with the yoof of today.

I think that OASC should be stood down personally, we can weed out all the total w@nkers here.

[Soiled Glove]

Danny,

Have you thought about a career with EDS - they recruit people just like you!

SG

[scroggs]

Ah, young Danny has found the Mil forum! This young man is full of questions, and has a very high opinion of himself, yet he doesn't really know yet how he's going to achieve his ambition of becoming a pilot - and I suspect that he hasn't given up on a couple of other 'ambitions' (read: things he quite fancies doing but knows nothing about) either.

Danny's not a wind up, but he lacks something in the finer skills of winning friends and influencing people. I think he's probably a fairly bright lad, but he realy doesn't yet understand enough about aviation - especially military aviation - to know how to ask the right questions.

Treat him reasonably gently; you never know, he might actually make it one day!

Scroggs

[Jackonicko]

I doubt that it's ever been harder to get into the RAF as aircrew as it is now.

Even if you meet the grade medically (and they can afford to be stupidly picky), and even if your academic standards are rather better than your spelling and grammar might suggest, I doubt that you'd get past OASC.

They always used to say that: "You don't want to go to war with a w*nker on your wing."

You will notice that your posts have led many serving aircrew to the conclusion that you are exactly that, and I suspect that OASC would discern that character trait, too.

1) The RAF would be lucky to have me as an applicant

Not on the basis of what you've shown so far. Confidence is great, if it falls short of arrogance, and as long as it isn't entirely misplaced.

2) I think i am definatly better off asking a professional in the recruiting process for the RAF - i do appreciate your time in replying, but your replies are far from constructive.

I think you'd be better off being grateful that professional military aviators have deigned to reply to you, and that you should read and inwardly digest those replies. Mental flexibility and a willingness to accept constructive criticism are a prerequisite to success in service and flying training.

3) a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics .

Which do you think would be more useful to a FJ pilot, and which would the RAF find more relevant?


You got some priceless advice from Max Stout, and in case you're too arrogant to have taken it on board, here it is again:

Don't close off ANY options at your age, or better still, until retirement age.
Show a bit of respect for the people who actually do what you dream of doing.
Swallow your pride, get real, wind your neck in and listen to good advice.
Consider yourself lucky if you get invited to OASC, and continue to count yourself lucky at every stage thereon, until you are in a frontline cockpit

I don't wish you luck. I think you need to grow up a bit and learn some humility before you're fit to join the RAF in any capacity, let alone as someone holding the Queen's Commission.

[Bob Viking]

Thank god I didn't have internet access (and thought prunes were just shrivelled raisins!) when I was a lad. I'm fairly sure I wasn't in the same league as young Danny but I'm pretty sure I could have made a complete @rse of myself on this forum too!
The poor lad. If he's not already crying to his parents about the mean men on the computer I bet he's changing his log-in as we speak, ready to start a new thread entitled:
RAF aircrew. I love you all, respect you and would love to join you one day if you'll let me. Any sagely advice please?

Anyway must be off. Got a bit of doggers to indulge in. And before you start, yes we can do that in our jet!
BV:)
PS. Just to confirm, that was doggERS not doggING!

[rooftopartist]

Dirty Sanchez,

definitely wasn't sticking up for the lad!

My point, as most have mentioned, was that this guy is sadly misguided if he wants a career as a military pilot, and for those who won't be able to fly in the services due to a trivial medical reason, Danny's attitude is simply naively offensive.

[Danny_manchester]

Scroggs :p


As i stated before, i am going to get some information from a careers woman at my college, and take things from there. However i have an appointment for a 24 hour ECG trace, so i will find out how things are in that dept.

As i have said before also, i do appreciate constructive comment, however how many people have heard one thing (from a person who should know), and still had a problem accepting it? Indeed, the majority of you probably have.

Also, correct me if i am wrong, but this forum is indeed for people who seek information? So people who do not have a lot of information on the RAF are welcomed to ask questions? Thought so.

Well, i am not here to be a troll or flame, just for information, i wills ay it yet again, i do appreciate constructive comments. (operative word being contructive)

Thanks again :ok:

[Danny_manchester]

Also, for the people wanting a handbag fight, I was not slagging off the rotary pilots, i just express a preferance for fixed wing flight - whats wrong with that?

[highcirrus]

Danny_manchester

I’m very sorry to read that you have a heart condition that you consider may preclude your making a successful application to join the Royal Air Force as a commissioned officer in the General Duties (Pilot) Branch. Whilst you do not mention specifics of the condition, I make the assumption that it is neither currently debilitating, nor is likely to become so in the future; hence your apparent optimism that it need not affect your chances of successful application to OASC. I have great sympathy for any young person who has a genuine and legitimate aspiration and who may find him or herself thwarted by medical circumstance beyond personal control. Let us hope that this is not the case.

That said and if yours is a genuine aspiration, permit me a few observations.

You may not have had explained to you the difference between self respect and self esteem, the latter of which, you seem to have in abundance. Allow me to elucidate. The self respect felt by an individual, relates to an inner, private and entirely appropriate personal satisfaction, gained, amongst other things, from the individual’s knowledge of plus third party recognition of, genuine achievement following determined effort, perhaps in the face of adversity, philanthropy, academic or sporting prowess and moral steadfastness in difficult circumstances. Moreover, these feelings are never demonstrated, merely covered by an unassuming, modest demeanour. Look carefully at anyone you may consider worthy of real respect (not someone towards whom you may have vicarious feelings of modish celebrity following). Do they not exude this aura?

Self esteem, on the other hand, denotes an entirely unwarranted satisfaction with self, based on the individual’s misconception and self delusion of personal and, perhaps, moral worth, attainment, knowledge, intelligence and aptitude.

I reliably receive continuing guidance on this fine distinction from writer Dr. Theodore Dalrymple, who’s periodic column in the Spectator magazine (of which publication I confess to being an avid reader) draws attention to the ills visited on contemporary society by the surfeit of , by definition, misplaced self regard amongst our population: a self regard, or esteem, generated by the apparent requirement of our education system to see no fault or limitation in the individual pupil and to bolster, on all occasions, a false sense of individual attainment and ability.

May I therefore draw your attention to your apparent surfeit of self esteem (as other, well experienced and knowledgeable contributors on this thread have attempted)?

You appear to have scant knowledge of the requirements to gain entry to the Branch which you indicate you desire. Perhaps a little more study would not go amiss, to fill those gaps which your self esteem will not presently let you recognise? Perhaps you should have already approached an RAF recruiting centre before posting on pprune – you’d certainly then have had the knowledge to make you realise the scale of your proposed undertaking and to eradicate your seemly flip attitude towards something that “looks like a good idea to me at this moment in time”.

Similarly, your displayed attitude towards the requirement for sound English language skills leading to successful selection leaves something of a question mark. You may, indeed, have good skills and aptitude in the subjects of maths, physics and chemistry, but, to achieve success in officer selection, you will require to display an ease, fluency and accuracy of both written and spoken communication; an accomplishment only facilitated by these same good English skills. You will similarly be required to display a potential for great attention to detail. If I may say so, to date, your language skills do not indicate either accomplishment or potential. Whilst not being required to spot a split-infinitive at fifty paces, you are required to display a facility beyond your present poor spelling, punctuation and grammar.

You will also be required to demonstrate a respect for the vocation you seek, coupled with a recognition that, if fortunate enough to be selected, you would definitely be at the bottom of the ladder and would require to work very hard and listen very attentively to superiors of vast experience and attainment. Again, if I may say so, you do not currently convey this willingness but, rather, give the impression of being a remarkably self possessed seventeen year old, equipped with a large measure of breezy self-confidence. Whilst this is by no means a bad thing – in fact it’s necessary – it does need careful self-monitoring and tempering, so as to not give the wrong impression of un-preparedness for work or inability to give due respect to experience. If I might mention, I was fortunate enough, in the mid-1960’s, to be accepted for what you aspire to. Even as a callow youth, I was able to recognise the remarkable privilege that fate had allowed me and, to this date, I have retained the facility to marvel at my good fortune to be part of such a cohesive, professional and, frankly, wonderful organisation (as was then) for an eight years that passed like eight months. You presently do not evidence this facility.

I have taken the trouble to prepare this post, not to censure or discourage you, but to draw your attention now, to what will inevitable be drawn to your attention at OASC. If you wish to succeed, take heed of this and other absolutely honest postings; now is the time to reappraise your attitudes.

Jackonicko is correct – “I think you need to grow up a bit and learn some humility before you're fit to join the RAF in any capacity, let alone as someone holding the Queen's Commission”. However, I wish you well and hope that you can reflect and change.

[THELONELYSAC]

sorry to say you wont get to fly with a heart condition as ALL persons who apply for OASC as GD(P) are assessed and assumed to go to FJ ops

[Danny_manchester]

***You appear to have scant knowledge of the requirements to gain entry to the Branch which you indicate you desire. Perhaps a little more study would not go amiss***

Hands up in the air, but that is the whole idea of having a forum, so that one can ask questions.

[Danny_manchester]

sorry to say you wont get to fly with a heart condition as ALL persons who apply for OASC as GD(P) are assessed and assumed to go to FJ ops.

Now that is a post which is written as a fact, Now unless you are a medical officer, you cannot make that assumption. I am happy to listen to constructive comment, however people can make an opinion on what happens, however only a qualified doctor could tell me the facts.

[Danny_manchester]

You say that they are assessed? which will be true, i would imagine ALL potential pilots will be assessed on their individual case, and not simply, "Heart condition? - no way" as you seem to think.

[rooftopartist]

Danny,

granted you were fishing for info at first, but go back an have a good hard look at what you wrote in your subsequent posts. If you were only fishing for info rather than the self adoration posts, do you really think this thread would have generated so much interest?

Do you honestly think someone like highcirrus would spend so much time writing a mammoth post if it were not for you arrogant attitude?

Hang on...

can you hear that?

can you?

listen...

that’s the sound of three pages worth of professional aviators and officers trying to push round that crank to wind your neck in.

[maxburner]

Danny,

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows?

If being a FJ pilot is what you want, try for it. But don't forget to take on board some of the good advice in the thread.

[Danny_manchester]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows.

Absolutly correct, thank you.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Danny, the only way you are going to get the absolutely authoritative answer is by going to the medical at OASC. In the opinion of a lot of people here who know a lot about military aviation - prepare yourself for a disappointment but go and find out anyway. You are not going to get an authoritative 'yes you're fine' from this forum.

Asking questions on this forum is also fine, with the following provisos: do a bit of homework yourself first, listen to the answers and don't bite the hand that feeds you if those answers don't match your own opinions.

Having a fixed wing preference is OK, too. You may however, like I had until the end of IOT, have a fixed wing preference because you do not know anything much about RW ops. Do not discount it in ignorance. If having learnt about RW, you still have a fixed wing preference, find a better, more diplomatic, way of communicating that at your interview. You have already seen the reaction you will get from RAF Officers if you simply say 'I want to be an RAF pilot but I don't want to be a rotary pilot'.

Remember above all else that getting into the RAF as aircrew is now, more than ever, a buyers' market and you are trying to sell yourself. At this point in time there are better deals out there than you. You need to address that fact, primarily by improving your knowledge and attitude.

Read Highcirrus' magnificent post, (the very epitome of officer chappism) and other posts again. At the moment the first impression you give out will get you chopped before you get to OASC - but, you can change that. With a bit of personal development you may make the grade, but you certainly won't by arguing against people who tell you the facts. Work on it buddy.

[StevenAins]

Danny,

As much as I would like to offer some precious advice, I'm afraid I can not, as I consider you to be the most annoying person on the planet. I understand that this is an ambition of yours, and that any criticism is hard to take, but these are the hard facts of life which you must consider.

I myself wanted to be an RAF Pilot, and spent all of my teenage years trying to attain this goal by joining the ATC and University Air Squadrons, gaining flying scholarships and even going through the RAF medical process. Yet in my second year on the UAS i was declared PMU due to a possible migrane when i was 7 years old. I even got the consultant from that time to write to the President of the Medical Board to state that it was in fact not migrane, but unfortunately, the RAF decided that the fact that it was possible at the time meant that i was unfit Aircrew and Aircraft Controlling duties. I can't be sure whether the same will happen to you, but chances are it will, as I was declared PMU off a possibility, not an atual problem like yours.

All I can advice is to make any decisions regarding University etc with an open mind. All my choices were made with pilot in mind, and now i'm having to do extra A levels whilst completing my degree, in order for me to go back to uni when i have finished to train for a job that i will also enjoy.

I hope to god that you take any advice given, and learn from others experiences.

[StevenAins]

p.s THELONELYCAS is quite right, everyone is assumed to go fast jet at first. I knew someone who failed RAF medical because he was too tall to fit in a FJ aircraft, though he could fit into rotary. It is only the RN who do not assume applicants to go fast jet.

[StevenAins]

and congratulations THE LONELYSAC on your promotion to CAS.

[VigilantPilot]

What was/is your condition?

Basically, if its anything more than a completely benign murmur (MVP, that kind of thing) then you can try but I would also start to think about other options...

[Acey ducey]

Danny
Stating a preference for FJ is fine but as already advised, don’t let the opportunity to fly RW or multi pass you by. You don’t generally get the opportunity to show real character or even win medals whilst serving your country and fries under the golden arches, which is where you are likely to end up with your attitude.
I have over 2500 hours in rotary in multiple aircraft types including US Seahawk/Blackhawk aircraft whilst on exchange and having met and worked with a fair few FJ pilots in my time, they are the ones who are rushing to get out due to the boredom of flying circles at 30000ft while the RW get to have fun at low level in demanding situations and conditions and with the camaraderie of a crew to (delete as reqd) talk/banter to/back you up/offer advice/save your ass.
I am an RN Observer (for someone who obviously doesn’t do much research, you may need to look it up) who wanted to be a pilot but was offered to opportunity to become something else. Not because I wasn’t good enough but because of the needs of the service. Although initially disappointed, looking back on 16 years of service I don’t regret my decision for a moment.
Life’s an adventure and the military can be pretty adventurous if you fit in. Having spent 5 years during my career teaching aircrew, I can honestly say that with your current attitude, you can be as gifted as you like (and by your own admission you obviously are!) but you will find flying training extremely demanding and you will require help at some point. Unfortunately you may find help from students and instructors alike a little lacking if you continue wearing your current shoulder attachments. I would rather train 10 mediocre aircrew who are willing to learn, develop and take advice than one who is so far up his own a*& :mad: that he can see daylight when he open his mouth. Inappropriate overconfidence and arrogance will get you killed especially when traveling at 450 Kts. Still if you do get past OASC and make it to flight training, I’m sure the instructors will prove me wrong and see your character traits as a virtue and see how we must have been getting it wrong all these years!
If you can get past the medical barriers, I truly do wish you well; you are going to need it!

[Antelope]

I know a place in the RAF is not based on academia, thats pretty evident, and i do not believe that i am somehow entitled to a place in the RAF, but i wouldn't say that i should be lucky to get a sniff in at the RAF, as the RAF need people who are strong academics, allbeit coupled with a pilots attributes.
When I went through UAS I saw many extremely intelligent people from one of the best Universities in the country get chopped. Being good academically certainly doesn't mean you'll be God's gift to aviation no matter how good you are in the classroom. It may help but I'd much rather have fewer qualifications and a natural ability to throw an aircraft around than vice versa.
English isn't my particular strong point, however physics math and chemistry are! :p
a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics :cool:.
Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do :),
Considering Aero Eng requires either the same or better grades at A-Level to get on a course than Physics/Chemistry I'd say that comments a tad off the mark. Also as someone with a Science degree I can tell you now people with Aero Eng qualifications found them much more useful in Groundschool than I did my Pure Science degree.
And I may be prejudging a bit but I'm not going to even comment on the medical issue as I'd be amazed if you got past the interview and I'd be even more surprised if you made far enough that I saw you on a frontline Sqn.
But hey you may prove me wrong, or go straight for the airlines, which I think would be a better option, either way,
Ant

[Kitbag]

On this couple of lines English isn't my particular strong point, however physics math and chemistry are! :p

a degree in Aero Eng? lol, no offence to Aero Eng grads, i was thinking more pure chemistry/physics :cool:.

Anyway, im not here to flame, got better things to do :),

Just remind us what degree you have actually achieved Danny.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Danny,

I cannot believe you!
Despite having words of wisdom and value given to you by people on this forum who have a great deal of military flying experience and who are well respected here, you continue to be an arrogant, maladjusted little schoolboy.
Please just go away and leave this forum to professional aircrew, clearly you are not worthy of any advice given to you.

TSM

[Ewan Whosearmy]

Maybe EDS will hire him if the RAF won't?

[difar69]

Haven't posted for ages, but after reading the numerous golden nuggets posted by Danny M, I just had to!:eek:
If he hasn't got the initiative to get off his own backside and find out the route he needs to take to do his dream job, he's wasting his/our time. How did we all cope before the internet? As potential Officers we used a bit of initiative. If advice is given be humble in your responses!:mad:
Still haven't answered the question as to your degree Danny?
Difar (Masters degree in Aero Eng by the way, 4 A-levels: Maths, Chem, Phys, Further Maths +2500hrs mil flying)

[BluntM8]

i do appreciate constructive comments. (operative word being contructive)


Danny,

I think you've mistaken "constructive" for "what I wanted to hear".

Fair play to you for asking in the forum, but it's not really on to flash up when you don't get the answer you want to hear. I mean, supposing the met brief is doggers but you really want to fly? Do you flash at the met man because his brief wasn't 'constructive'?

BM8

[MightyFinWarrior]

Danny, not only has your thread entertained me for at least half an hour. You've managed to drag me from being an occasional viewer of these boards to a Poster, congrats. Although, I do have to agree with the venerable Dirty Sanchez that this all smells of a fishing expedition by someone bored at Linton or maybe even Valley?

That aside, I too have a heart condition that sounds a lot worse that it is. I was diagnosed with a Heart Murmur during my pre-IOT medical, which came at a rather inopportune moment in my life. Turns out everything is hunky-dory and I just have an abnormally large heart, so all is not lost. After a short stint in the training world (Four and a half years) I am now flying front-line Fast Jets.

I'd keep going with your single-minded determination. It's only mere mortals that read high confidence as arrogance and indifference. I should know, I've met several of them in my short career. I'd tone it down a little for your OASC and/or UAS interview and actually get some achievements under your belt before you 'big yourself up' too much.

I didn't comtemplate joining the Rotary world before signing up, although by all accounts it's rather rewarding. What I did do however, was to see whether or not my youthful bluster was up to much by completing EFT on the UAS before commiting. You can gain some idea whilst at University of whether you'll be monstering the Low-Flying system or flying Sentry Racetracks for your commission.

By the by, with my somewhat limited experience I've found that it doesn't matter much which Degree people (especially pilots) have achieved, indeed it doesn't really matter which university they've attended (helps if it's one of the blue ones of course). It just matters whether they've got what it takes, both mentally and physically. Having lost half of my FJ training intake to the knife I can't tell you what 'it' is. Confidence is in there, but so is grit, determination, hard-work, sense of humour, a bit of ability and smattering of luck.

Keep up the enthusiasm, it is a great job, although it takes an absurdly long time to get into it and ready to do anything of any use. The rest of you, chill out; someone'll learn him. Especially you Sanchez, stop foaming at the mouth with rage, too easily baited that one. Get in your Chariot and hang out over some approach lanes, see if you can pick up something that you can usefully turn with. Don't stray too far from home though, no danger of that I'm sure.

[Touchin' Down]

argh, well must say that this thread has made my night! Rather amusing! Fact is Danny, you can never really tell who is going to get through or who isn't, although I do know that the RAF can afford to have the 'pick of the bunch' when it comes to applicants. I was sat at OASC just recently, chatting to a young lad who was waiting for appointment with the doctor. Very confident guy who had always dreamed of being a pilot in the military. A few minutes later, he had seen the doc, and came out with tears in his eyes. Not heavy enough for his height and he had suffered migranes in the past apparently. Sad to see someones dreams swept away in a few moments.

I remember seeing guys at my OASC who I thought 100% they would make it through. Good grades, confident etc etc...but they didn't! The RAF want people who are well rounded, not just good at maths or english etc. It really is a matter of having the 'whole package'. You need to intergrate well into a group and judging by the amount of stir you have caused, this may be an area you need to improve on (always room for improvement).

Reference the rotary comment I give it time before you voice too stronger views. I remember changing my mind several times through pilot training, but also remember thinking that I'd be absolutely over the moon to just finish and get to stay in the RAF. As it transpired, I ended up as a FJ pilot but have never looked down at the other roles (banter excepted). Each role has it's purpose and the guys do a brilliant job with the limited resources they have.

In any case, best of luck, but don't kiss off the advice, positive or negative, you get on here. RAF aircrew are, by nature, generally well sorted guys who are willing to help you out, however, beware, if you get it wrong (and it appears it may be too late) we/they can come down fairly hard. The advice you got was from guys who know the system, have seen it all before and are just saying the way it is. It may not be what you want to hear but that's just life. I'm no doctor and I don't know enough about your condition. My advice is, go ahead with your application and fairly shortly you will find out whether it's a go or no-go item!

KMAGYOYO

[Touchin' Down]

Argh Tui Hat Wearing Son.......many a night I have spent at the old railway in Palmerston North drinking far too much Tui! Those are Ohakea days well gone now though!

Take care.

[Up & Away]

Come on chaps.. It is the right of youth to dream.. why didn't you??
Danny boy only wants to 'Start with the RAF'!!
Now tell us Whats all this about Psychology A level?? What fun eh?

[TurbineTooHot]

How amusing, am sure we used to pick on kids like this one and nick their lunch money. Sounds like a geek to me......:E

Danny, you seem to be lacking in humility, which is fine for humility is advisory only for FJ crews.:E :E This does however come with experience. I had that particular lesson beaten into me upon leaving uni early. Those who know me will know the story, but before that I thought I was invincible. Since then, suitably humbled I have gotten on with things and they have gone my way, confident but willing to listen to the advice of others.:ok:

On the subject of ac choice, there was a lad I knew who was convinced that he would be flying F3s from the first day I met him on IOT. Just the other day I belted passed his C130 in my Hawk.... Flying training is like a box of chocolates.... nutty!!!

TTH.

You know who you are RatBoy the Ascotteer. Was nice to hear you. Hope all's well.

[g126]

Possibly not for me to say, but maybe an apology is in order Danny, to all these gentlemen who:

1. are living your dream;
2. have tried to help you and;
3. may well be the people who will interview you at OASC (I would be surprised if they didn't use the boards).

Ask yourself, would you be talking like this to them face-to-face? If the answer is no, then why are you doing it. If the answer is yes, then I wish you all the best in your interview stages because you as sure as hell are going to need it.

G

[Roland Pulfrew]

Danny M

Sorry m8 but (in a constructive manner) "No".

But for keeping me entertained "Tick, VG"!!

[scroggs]

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Apply and see how you get on. What do you have to lose? Sadly, I'm pretty sure that a heart condition, unless very minor in nature, would rule you out, but who knows."
Absolutly correct, thank you.

Oh dear. Danny, who gave you the knowledge to pronounce this post 'correct'? While it may be what you want to hear, and is reasonably sound advice, it is not for you to declare it correct or otherwise. As the person after advice, you should gratefully accept what you are told by those here who actually have got the T-shirt that you aspire to. If some of that advice is unhelpful or simply irrelevant - or even not what you want to hear - you have the option to ignore it. What you don't have is the credibility to tell any of these people that they are right or wrong. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

As the famouse saying goes, "Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot, than to open it and confirm their suspicions."

Scroggs

[VigilantPilot]

Although OASC do look at individuals on a case by case basis, medical selection is not as forgiving. History of asthma or serious heart conditions, poor vision all mean you are a non-starter. Definitely give it a shot, but keep your options open - believe it or not there is more to life than flying.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

VP - wash your mouth out and stop playing online poker;) But yeah, fully agree that any pre-existing condition can easily lead to you being binned out of hand.

My advice (from someone who has been round the medical tree more than once - heart issue on application for 6th form schol and then another issue somewhat later in life) is to get advice from an external consultant (preferably one who has worked with aviators before) and get him to sign you off if it's what you really want. Then approach the medical board with that report in hand to pre-empt any attempt they may make to bin you. Has the potential to save you a world of grief (also helps if you have a family member who is a cardiologist!)

[THELONELYSAC]

and congratulations THE LONELYSAC on your promotion to CAS.

Cheers, i worked hard! SAC(T) to CAS is no easy fete.I only know that fact as i have just had my Med Centre p2 screening from a Wg Cdr doctor: who informed me of that fact, take note Danny!:mad:

[jstars2]

Danny_M
After all the kerfuffle on this thread, I’d be interested to know if you’ll be continuing with an RAF pilot application?
Don’t be too put off by what you’ve read so far – you just need to think about your personal presentation. If you’re really determined, just do it. Good luck.

[2Ronnies]

Danny - knew a young buck like you who got through OASC and IOT determined to join the FJ fraternity. Saw him 3 yrs later doing Supply Officer training - and proud to be there.

There are a lot of hurdles beyond the medical - you may fall at any of them but provided you learn from the experience (like him) then that's OK.

[Vidal]

Danny M

No matter what your heart condition is (and I do in fact sympathise with that - I was medically unfit for aircrew at selection but am more than happy to serve on the ground), with your attitude and arrogance you'll be lucky to get past the AFCO and definately not past the OASC board.

There are many individuals out there in the same situation as you, don't think for a second that you are better than the rest.

"If you compare yourself to others you may become vain and bitter, as there are always greater and lesser people than yourself"

You want constructive criticism? Try adjusting your attitude. Take on board whats been said and get yourself down to the AFCO. Personally I think you haven't got a gnat's ar$e of a chance.:mad:

[Time Flies]

Well then Danny...any news on your application?

I'm beside myself waiting for you to arrive on my Squadron!

:E

[PPRuNeUser0172]

unfortunately looks as though he may be having the last laugh as a complete wind up merchant, either that or we have successfully bantered him out of it!

[Lara crofts pants]

Danny, please post again. I love it when people profess to be AcERdemmiCS when they quite obvioulsly aren't.

yours

LCP
BSc Applied Physics (1st Class) - or something

[Vidal]

Yes Danny,

PLEEEEEEASE post again, we really want to hear how you're getting on (as you're clearly so much better than the rest of us!

[joe2812]

Gotta be a wind up... look at some of his other posts. Surely not the same guy??
Indeed rip you to SHREDS Scott, as you are a very confused boy, and whilst we are at it, not that bright.
People go to uni to get a degree, to be able to have letters after their name, not just so they can get a job.
Googled waterworths, and found nothing, now people will notice that if something exists, a google search usualy finds some info on what you are looking for.
As for pressure at college, thats the whole idea, to get rid of people like you before the serious stuff starts .
Scott, you have done nothing but put your family name to shame, and made yourself look a fool, so goodnight, hope to never hear from you here again.
Go to sleep, and continue your dream.
Now, once i questioned you about your business, and proposed you were a fake, you started to drone on, and on and on, and also your typing went to pot, sign of being irritated, annoyed by the truth?

----------------------------------------------
Hey Scott. im a mancunian student too. staying at college incase flying doesnt work for some reason. I intend to complete the 1st year and fly out to OBA and complete my PPL,night,radioT,IMC and Multi in the 7 week holidays. I dont think that dropping out of coll. will affect you directly at the moment, and i think if you get some good experience, you should be ok for the airlines. I think you are lucky that you can afford the training self funded like me, as really, airlines only look at higher level education if you are going for a cadet post. I would imagine you will apply as a F.O. so no problems.

Good luck man, btw im doing a few hours at barton before i do my JAA liceses at OBA, maybe see you there sumtime

Still, it was bloody funny.

[monkey88]

well danny
I was about to post a thread telling you not to listen to the ars###les, and that they were giving you banter which is the only true form of humour left in the RAF and indeed the military. That your heart condition could be acceptable as I know someone who had a snag on his ECG at OASC and still got in.
HOWEVER, some of your replies are absolutely shocking, if you ask for an opinion then accept the answers put to you, even if they are wrong, if you feel you know better, why ask in the first place.
And from Joe2812 input some of your advice to others is pretty rotten. Thats it please tell young kids that dropping out of education is a good way to get a job with the airlines. I wish the airlines were just looking for an ATPL, they are not, the aviation world is highly competitive. Maybe you should take your advice, you pprune login details and yourself, and get off the site.

Monkey 88