CASA's Visual Flight Guide

[Critical Reynolds No]

Hello,

CASA's online Visual Flight Guide states there will be a new version available in 2005. Any know what is holding them up? Is is still "safe" to use the old online version even though it was last updated in 2001?

Cheers

[Lodown]

That was the problem with the VFG right from its incorporation. There was no procedure in place for its update. It was never tied to any update cycle, even that of the AIP because the funds weren't there for regular publications, VFR pilots didn't want the regular updates and the dweebs running the show in CASA didn't want to be beholden to information from Airservices. As such, now there is seemingly no one and no funds committed to its ongoing sustainability. People have moved on and there are other CASA priorities now.

It was nothing more than a PR and resume padding exercise at the time of its introduction, which looks like it might have run its course. It was intended not for pilots, but for someone to be able to wave around in a public place and say, "Look how CASA (and ME) are keeping costs down for you."

Now, move on 5 or 6 years and we've got pilots who don't know whether the information is valid or not, but are still using it. Not critical of you CRN; I would like to know too. It was a stupid decision at the time and CASA needs to publicly indicate whether it is still a valid document or not.

I guess if it's still available online, it is still endorsed as a valid document by CASA, but if I were you, to be "safe" and in accordance with the premise that it was supposed to be updated in 2005, I wouldn't be using it until I get an answer from CASA.

[OzExpat]

And get their answer in writing! That should delay the issue for a few years while they get legal opinions, etc! :}

[Time Bomb Ted]

The next version is due out by June 06.

Will have to pay for it though.

Just email those "Dweebs" for more info. [email protected]

I don't know if the thousands of GA pilots that use it would agree with you Lowdown. Much better than the AIP.

TBT

[Disco Stu]

Hey Ozex, your mob know the best thing to do with an Aussie VFG, straight into the bin followed by an appropriate 'in country briefing' about not hitting rock filled clouds.

Worked for me at the time and still does.:E

Disco Stu.

[OzExpat]

Don't tell anyone about this Stu, but there was a more practical reason why we dumped it all those years ago... it talked about something called "VFR"! :}

[the wizard of auz]

About the only rule Inever broke when I was over there........ thems some scary stuff clouds even I wasn't going to play with. :eek:
I do remember something about some documents I was meant to be looking at before my next visit though.............Obviously not the VFG. :}

[Sunfish]

I asked about it at skylines the other day and got told it is on its way, maybe even before July. To idiots like me, it is a handy thing to have.:p

[kookabat]

Commonly known as 'The Idiot's Guide to Sydney' at the place I fly.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Kookabat:
You may be confusing Visual Pilot Guides (city specific) with the the VFR Flight Guide (which attempts to summarise the AIP/CARS/CAO bits relevant to VFR PPLs)
UTR
PS See www.casa.gov.au/pilots/index.htm

[kookabat]

Whoops. :D
I knew that.

*goes and digs a big hole for self*

[Bob Murphie]

Kookabat:
You may be confusing Visual Pilot Guides (city specific) with the the VFR Flight Guide (which attempts to summarise the AIP/CARS/CAO bits relevant to VFR PPLs)
UTR
PS See www.casa.gov.au/pilots/index.htm

As a reference guide to be used, but not mandated to be carried on board it is invaluable, especially with regard daylight and darkness graphs.

I would be a bit upset to have to pay for "just" another book however, because these graphs are not in ERSA or other VFR publications that I can immediately see. There may be legal implications because of ignorance.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

The VFR Flight Guide may be taken into PPL examinations, However the document must not be taken into CPL or ATPL examinations as professional pilots need access to some source documents

Still, I have always found it to be a very useful source of information. Everything in there is 100% useful to lowly PPL types like me.

[TLAW]

I found it incredibly useful when training towards my PPL. One of the most useful documents I have come across :ok:

[Critical Reynolds No]

Thanks for all of the responses peoples.:ok:

How does the VFG by the Aviation Centre(?) compare, stack up etc? Is it the same info but updated for 2006?

Cheers

[Chief galah]

Anything that's in a less stuffy format than AIP/NOTAMS etc has got to be good value. Being on the receiving end of inexperienced and unfamiliar pilots, just a little bit of extra background knowledge can make life easier.
Things may change, but physical locations, circuit entries and aerodrome characteristics are pretty static and are still good guidelines.
A CD would be cheap and useful, but having the book next to you is a handy reference.
As far as I know, an update is not in the mill, but is overdue particularly with the NAS changes.
CG

[TLAW]

The ATC guide is up to date and black and white, whereas the CASA VFG is far more detailed and in colour. The ATC guide has more practical, experience based info, whereas the CASA VFG has more strictly legal, extracted from AIP and CAO info. They don't contradict, rather they complement each other.

[allan907]

Keep it in my nav bag. It's merely extra weight to be taken into account. However........had occasion to use it yesterday! Glad it was there!

[wdn]

the visual pilots guide for sydney is currently under review.

the reason for the hold up is that it is impossible to descend into BK OCTA above LSALT. for years, pilots have been descending to 1500 (which is below LSALT) prior to reaching 3nm BK, as ATC will simply not issue a clearance to BK above 1500 when SY RWY 07 is in use.

since the guide is meant to provide guidance (funny that) a procedure is being developed so that the LSALT from 2RN or PSP to BK will be 1500 provided some conditions can be met. the conditions will probably include:

1. visual id of PSP or 2RN and
2. BK aerodrome beacon serviceable and sighted OR
3. NDB serviceable, ADF TITed and indicating correct TR to BK FM 2RN or PSP

the problem is that such a procedure does not comply with the criteria in PANS-OPS so some bureaucratic manoeuvrings are taking place to get it approved.

[jetstar1]

As a reference guide to be used, but not mandated to be carried on board it is invaluable, especially with regard daylight and darkness graphs.

Would be a bit careful with those graphs if you are using them for a PPL exam. My flying school recommends they are not used as they appear to not reflect to the CAO graphs. (70% - one mark = boo hoo bloody VFG) :{

[IMHFO]

WDN

Yes I recall this problem (and is known by the regulator and the provider) but I believe that with cunning use of the various MSA's at BK and SY combined with a couple off appoaches it can be done - IFR. But what of VFR at night?:bored:

Of course life is not meant to be that difficult. :confused:

The simple solution is to raise BK airspace just a little so that APP/DEP is facilitated. The difficulty here is getting this past the immovable SY ATC (management?) as this allegedly impinges upon MED/HVY arrivals/departures/noise 07/25. This is BS as you only have to look at the stats and flight profiles to see that an airspace raise over BK out of hours will not have any effect.

Of course I am sure that CASA has this issue firmly in hand.:ok:

"Light blue touch paper and run like............":E

[HGFC1]

:confused: Are you REALLY able to take a reference book into your PPL exams in Australia? It would be classed as cheating here and I could be prevented from getting my PPL. :{ The only thing I am allowed to take in, apart from a pen, is my Whizz wheel for the Navigation exam. The other six (written ones) have to be done from memory. It has certainly made me do my best to learn the subjects properly. :ok:

[FlugWeasel]

The VFG is allowed in the PPL exam.

Definitive list of what you are allowed: http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/exams/cyber/material.htm

[TLAW]

:confused: Are you REALLY able to take a reference book into your PPL exams in Australia? It would be classed as cheating here and I could be prevented from getting my PPL. :{ The only thing I am allowed to take in, apart from a pen, is my Whizz wheel for the Navigation exam. The other six (written ones) have to be done from memory. It has certainly made me do my best to learn the subjects properly. :ok:

You mean the UK exams require you to memorise Start/End of daylight tables and other planning stuff like that? :confused:

[FlugWeasel]

So little daylight anyway ... easy to remember small numbers like that !

Sorry - couldnt resist!

[HGFC1]

TLAW, no, we don't have to memorise them, any charts, met forecasts etc are provided for us at the time but thanks for the information. It is interesting to see the differences between the UK and Australia.
FlugWeasel, what do you mean by "How LITTLE daylight"? :hmm: May I draw your attention to today's (31/3/06) sunrise / sunset times? For reference, York is the nearest place to me: http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/sun/ukmap.php and now look at the times for Midsummer's Day:http://www.canterburyweather.co.uk/sun/test.php?d=21&m=6&y=2006
Today in Perth WA sunrise was 0627hrs and sunset 1814. On 21/06/2006 (your Midsummer's Day) it was sunrise: 0531, sunset 1924. I think you can see I have a fair bit more daylight than you do :ok: and if you look at the figures for Lerwick there is hardly any night time at all. In actual fact if it is a clear night there are a few weeks in the summer when it never really gets completely dark and I can clearly see a line of light to the NOrth of me. I LOVE those long, balmy summer evenings when I can still sit out in my garden until 2200hrs and read a book without needing an extra light source. :ok:

[jetstar1]

All that daylight and you pommies still cant get a sun tan?! :} (anyone notice the moon tans on show at the comm games?)

[HGFC1]

All that daylight and you pommies still cant get a sun tan?!
:hmm: It's probably because they have all been paying very careful attention to the skin protection / melanoma prevention advice. :hmm: I have been over here for several weeks now and when I return home people will be hard pushed to tell as I have only a very pale tan and that is in spite of plenty of sunshine :D Seriously though, it IS interesting to see the differences in local aviation practice. We have to carry a current chart with us for the area(s) we will be flying in whereas you have to cart around that hulking great ERSA tome which must add considerably to the weight carried :( and can't be as easy to carry. Is this because there seems to be less marked on your charts? A friend who flies over here was aghast when she saw my Southern UK chart as there is so much on it - particularly in the way of Controlled Air Space, Danger Areas, MATZs, HIRTAs etc. We also have only the one chart which we use permanent markers on and wipe them off later.