Help Me Choose An Aircraft

[Spanners85]

Having read avidly many pPrune posts, I thought it was time to post for myself and gleam some knowledge from the wealth of users.

I'm currently a university student studying engineering, and part of the nearby university air squadron nearby. Hopefully I'll gain an NPPL or even PPL from the flying but that's beside the point. For various reasons, I can't go on and join the RAF as a pilot, but I am planning to purchase an aircraft that fits the following criteria:

Two seats (got a younger brother!)
Homebuilt, yet easy and simple to do
Already certified by the PFA, and preferably already others flying in the UK
Reasonable speed and range
Cheap (very important, will still have a student loan weighing on my shoulders! I suppose fuel economy comes under this too.)
Aesthetically, not a brick
Short field capabilities (although this could be sacrificed is necessary)

I'm not interested in shares or part-ownership. Also not keen on the idea of a gyroplane, microlight etc, must be a Group A aeroplane. Based on this, the current ideas seem to be a Pietenpol Aircamper, or a Volksplane VP-2, or similar. Any suggestions?
(Should also mention I'm 6'2", unhelpfully!)

[aerobatic_dude]

Suppose you could have a think about the BanBi, not exactly and ideal field or short strip aeroplane though.

Or if you want all of your criteria, except the cheap bit, then have a look at an RV. Then again, is there any such thing as a " cheap " aeroplane....

[Chimbu chuckles]

Cessna 150:ok:

And yes I am serious.

[flyboyike]

Have a look at this:

http://www.lancair.com/Main/propjet.html

Not cheap, but an absolutely tremendous airplane. How do 330KTAS and up to 7,000 fpm sound?

[LowNSlow]

Unless you do the maintenance yourself there is very little (if any) cost difference between running a C of A aeroplane and running a PFA aeroplane. Assuming you are not going to do the maintenance yourself you can pick up a good Auster for between £11 - £15k depending on how many seats and how big an engine you want. :ok: It has the added bonus of being useable for your PPL instruction as well.

[stiknruda]

Reasonable speed/range = no Aircamper!

6'2" = no VP2

Cessna 140/15x, Austers, Aeroncas, Pups.

Is that Shield thingy (low wing, yellow, polished ally open cockpit)still for sale, am sure that could be had at a decent price.

Skybolt, Acrosport II - would also fit the bill.

Stik

[J.A.F.O.]

What about the Rans S6 or Zenith 701?

The VP2 isn't really a two seat and aesthetically and every other way it is a brick - it happens to be a brick I like, but still a brick.

[LowNSlow]

[B]Stik[B] I remember the Shield Xyla (wood in Greek) being advertised for under £10k a few years ago but now it seems to have crept up to nearly £13k which seems a bit much for a single seater in this category.

Get an Auster J1/N or a Mark 6 with the Gipsy 10.2 engine (with the oil ring mod). Good load hauler (4 seats) out of short strips, reliable engine that drinks 6 ish gph while trundling along at around 100mph and all for under £15k!

[SlipSlider]

Should also mention I'm 6'2"

From Aeronca Champ pilot report:
Once on board, the immediate impression will be of visibility and a cheerful airiness. The wing and skylight is so high and the pilot sits so far forward, there is none of the "Man trapped in an airplane" feeling of so many of the Champ's contemporaries. This is definitely the airplane for a big person.

http://airbum.com/pireps/ClassicCompChamp.html

The Aeronca Champ meets all your requirements, especially one with an extra wing tank. However, I am not aware of any for sale at the moment, but then you don't sound like you're in a rush....

Slip

[crap pilot]

A rans S10?
You can buy one for around £8k, has two seats, cruise 85kts(ish) quite nice looking and can be aerobated. plenty of them about already on the PFA.

[shortstripper]

I'll second what JAFO says about the VP2.

6'2" is quite possible for a VP if the builder was tall. I had to bring back the rudder pedals in my old one as I'm short and the builder was 6'+. It is definately a single seater for you, though for short arses like me, 1+ child is possible. Great fun and about as cheap as you get, so don't rule it out if finances are tight. Hand on heart though ... look for something better!

Pietenpol Aircamper is also probably a bit small as well, esp if your brother is of similar size to you. I think as others have said, the Champ is a good choice as most of the capable homebuilds will probably cost more anyway. The only real exception is a Jodel which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. A D112 or similar would easily fit the bill for somewhere between £10k (if you're lucky) and £15k.

SS

[Them thar hills]

Spanner
A Jodel is definitely best value and reasonable performance both in cruise and strip performance.
112 's are still to be had. They have no engine driven electrics so they use the Armstrong starter.
117's and 120's usually get snapped up a bit quicker, as the're better equipped, and a bit faster, and have more range.
All have excellent visibility.
At 6'2 you may just squeeze into one. The first 10 years are the hardest. But worth it.
TTH.

[Monocock]

I really hate to sound repetitive but to summarise your requirements as:

Two seats
Homebuilt
PFA
Cheap
Aesthetically not a brick
Short Field

I can tell you that the Taylorcraft fills them all except the homebuilt bit.

Have a look at the T-Craft thread.:ok:

[LowNSlow]

Don't forget the Taylorcraft is the Auster's "flimsy" cousin that manages the same speeds on 35 fewer horses!

[Hairyplane]

Check out the Rollason Condor. No problem at 6ft2in. Cheap as chips to buy, underated and British! Airframe spares grow in the ground, engine is the common RR 0200.

Great fun to fly, and its got a tailwheel.:ok:

Hairy

[stiknruda]

And the biggest drawback with the Condor is that it was designed as being a glider-tug and therefore doesn't exactly have the longest legs in the world. And they are so fugly!:E

Jodel, Auster, Aeronca or T-craft:ok:

So HAiryplane - how is are you getting on with yr '44?


Stik

[Hairyplane]

Hi Stik,

I think you are wrong about the Rodnoc - it was designed from the outset as a trainer but some were produced with a more powerful 130hp donk for tugging, thus reducing the duration yet further.

From memory the standard machine has a 15 gallon tank and the 0200 burns 5 or less per hour. We are therefore looking at 3 or more hours to dry tanks @ 80kts.

Ugly? When compared with an Auster? Very much in the eye of the beholder I would say. It is a bird that can look a little ungainly from some angles on the ground but just great in the air. There was a terrific report on it in one of the mags recently. In the context of a cheap/ cheap to operate 2 seat flying machine I think it takes some beating.

Now, what would transform it is something I believe would be quite straightforward to do, not cost a busting load of money and will possibly result in them doubling in value overnight........???

Chop the top off and convert the thing into a cabrio, ie in the style of the gorgeous Tipsy Trainer; Fit some swoopy spats. Voila! One sweeeet flying machine.

I'm afraid the yellow and blue boggo scheme would have to go too.

What do you think Stik? Do-able?

I reckon my dear airline captain mate Stampe will come in on this post. He has owned Condors for 30 years.

R44 - I post quite a bit on Rotorheads. The R44 is a hoot of a thing to fly and even more exciting to have at home. Pulling a decent car out of the garage is one thing but to be able to pull a near-120kt 4 place heli out and spear off in it is a priviledge that causes me to kick myself every time I do it.

Having said that, I had neglected my fixed wing flying to the point recently where I did eventually fly the Robin and didn't fly it very well at all. However, after a right good session yesterday - including operating out of our very(!) short E/W runway into the 20kts of wind we had - wow! I liked it and felt very much at home again.

I'm very much looking forward to getting current again on my old machines at Old Warden. All 3 are now back on flight risks and will be flown regularly over the next month in order to get up to speed for my DA renewal.

I think you are about due for a go in the Magister or the PT? PM me to arrange if so.

All the best

Hairy

[fernytickles]

You can see a list of all the PFA approved types on their webpage:

http://www.pfa.org.uk/pdfs/Hombuilt%20List%20by%20Type.pdf

and they have datasheets on a number of them here:

http://www.pfa.org.uk/engineering_aircraft_index.asp

I suspect you may find it tough to scratch-build or kit-build any suitable PFA design for less than the price of an already-flying Taylorcraft (or similar).

Sometimes partially completed projects can be purchased for a good price, that might give you a head start.

Wittman Tailwind jumps out from the list to me as a timeless classic that can be scratch built and meets all your characteristics - and the performance is outstanding

[J.A.F.O.]

The Tailwind seems a good idea, as do the Jodels and the Rans. Get to FFF this year and have a look - hope I'll make it myself this time. I would really suggest that you think again about joining an established group, it's the most sensible and cost-effective way into ownership.

If anyone has a Taylorcraft and needs a set of those big bungees then I've got some brand new ones that I don't need - don't ask, it's a stupid story. PM me for details.

Oh, and HAIRY, if you have any use for a right leg then I'd give mine for a go in a Magister.

[fernytickles]

Another though I had was the Sonex, which meets your performance criteria and might be considered much easier to build than a tube & aeroplane. Also you can stick the VW engine in it, which helps keep your costs down.

It's not currently on the PFA approved list, but I understand that someone in the UK has been working with PFA and is close to getting one through the system.

[Hairyplane]

Dear JAFO,

If the right leg you had in mind was a genuine Lockheed Airdraulic and not of the common or garden skin and bone variety - of which I have no use of for other than my well worn 'Jake the Peg' Rolf Harris impression - then you'll have to let me think about it.

Seriously though - no promises but PM me and I'll see what can be done.

Anybody prepared to give up a leg must be keen!:ok:

All the best

Hairy

[AfricanEagle]

Have you considered a Tecnam P92. Available new as micolights or certified VLAs. Good as a Cessna 152 but better short field performance.
Or buy a second hand one cheap (in Italy) and the sky is your playground.

AE