A Bit of PPL Information

[Mark 3:16]

Hi all,

After a fair bit of deliberating and fretting as to whether I can give up work and afford to go and apply for an Integrated Course, I have decided at this stage I simply cannot.

I'm therefore about to embark on training for my PPL, before then hopefully being accepted on one of the main player's modular courses. Its going to take longer I know, but sadly - like many on here - there is a mortgage and all sorts to pay and to suddenly up sticks would be a bit unfair on the other half.

I'm in the Manchester area, and have seen Manchester School of Flying (MSF) and Lancs Aero Club at Barton as the two main local instructors. Does anyone have any info on these boys, other than the spiel on their websites? Any good or bad rumours about the organisations? Any recommedations from anyone? Any other good North West based suppliers?

Costs seem about the same. MSF - at least on the face of things - seem a bit more professional, but Barton will not have the inherent landing fees or delays of a major international airport. The idea is to get as much instruction and flying in as possible, so perhaps Barton would be a better option.

Any info at all gratefully recieved!
Cheers
Mark

[BestAviation]

Mark - if your sole plan is to obtain a PPL and price is an important part I would say aim for the flying club and save the professional courses for the ones persuing a career.

I went that way (although in a different country). Got my PPL with a cheap "fly for fun" place and then later decided that a pro. career wasn't such a bad idea.....thus upgraded to a bigger establishment for the rest of my training.

If you are to take the PPL part time it will take some time anyways (specially with all the great weather in UK)....so becoming part of the aviation social life really adds to the experience. I think you can do that better in a club. Flying for a hobby is after all just about that - hobby.

Just my take on it. Don't have any personal experience with the two schools mentioned, so maybe others have a different take on it?

[HGFC1]

This is a little bit further away from you than Manchester or Barton but well worth the short trip down the M6, try here:http://www.hgfc.co.uk/ It's a very friendly place with excellent instructors. Give them a ring and have a chat or arrange a visit. They will not demand huge sums of cash up front either. :ok:
(NB: I DO NOT have any financial or business links, I know their reputation :ok:)

[Mark 3:16]

Cheers for the responses.

Ideally, the PPL is going to be a stepping stone for bigger things, so whilst trying to get through it as quickly as time, energy and money allows (I'm aiming for about 12 months as an initial target) I also want to really enjoy it as well (as I'm sure I will).

So maybe the 'club' route is a good bet. Just got to sort out the medical and all being well, up I go.

Any further response specifically about the schools, or anything really, welcomed!
Mark

[BestAviation]

12 months for the PPL sounds about right for club flying. Just a little tip to save you some money in the end: If you don't have time (or money) enough to fly at least one lesson (ideally two) per week it may be smart to wait until you can. Flying less then this you most likely fall behind on the progression curve and spend extra time (read money) just on getting up to speed on the previous lesson. The very basic "if you don't use it - you loose it" of learning.

Also don't let it scare you that the minimum requrements are far lower then what you will probably need. When the vice men at the top of the paper stack sat down and compiled these laws long long time ago they thought the average (basic) training time needed for a military pilot student would be a good measurment for their minimum. Fact of life is that most students are nowhere ready when they hit this mark and even fast track PPL students average around 50-60 hours TT by the time they receive their certificate.

As you most likely will take a year then 60-80 hours isn't unreasonable.

And for any hobby you pick up the whole idea is to enjoy it too, right? ;)

[MyData]

Mark

If you are in South / South East Manchester then Sheffield might be an option, similarly if near the M62 in the North East then Leeds could be another. And then there is always Liverpool...

FYI - I live equidistant to Leeds, Manchester and Sheffield airports. I learned at Leeds and Sheffield. Man looks like fun but the airport charges can bump up the hourly rate. There is a famous thread on this forum of a PPL diary - which was started by Mazzy flying out of Liverpool. I also know of a friend who learned at Barton a couple of years ago and had no issues there.

[funfly]

Have experience of MFS myself doing IMC and wife doing PPL training.

Standard of instruction unquestionably good:ok:

Plus points - the experience of flying into and out of a major airport putting a PPL pilot way ahead of general club experience. R/T etc. skills very valuable. I would say that if you got your PPL here you would be a far more experienced and confident flier than with a conventional club. My personal thoughts is that if I were interested to go commercial this sort of start would put you ahead of the game. You will be flying a lot in a 'controlled' environment.

Negative points - mainly the cost, you will spend a great deal of time in holding patterns and travelling to and from 'circuit' airfields. Also there are restrictions on both time and weather conditions out of Manchester Int.

If I were to offer advice (God help me!) I would suggest ab initio training (maybe up to solo standard) at a place where you can go straight out and do circuit work at the airfield and then progress to PPL with MSF.

Suggest a visit to MSF - they are very friendly lot there!

Must add that I don't know Barton so my comments only relate to MSF.

[RudeNot2]

Mark

I started out on the PPL back at the beginning of January and have so far accumulated just under 10 hours and have started doing the circuit work.

I am based out of Cumbernauld - I know a little far for you to travel!!! but here we have the luxury of being able to get in the circuit (along with the other training establishments here) and the other bonus is that we are not that far away from the controlled airspace of either Glasgow or Edinburgh for some hefty RT familiarisation..

Not being too well up on matters geographical - if Barton is cheaper and closer to you than Manchester, I would go with that option.. From Barton you can always pay (£££) a visit to Manchester via the airways to gain experience.

Just my tuppence worth..

Dave

[Mark 3:16]

Thanks chaps,

All interesting points, summing up the pros and cons of both the local suppliers at least. Just want to get up there now. First lesson on Monday at Barton. We'll see where we go from here.

Cheers
Mark

[BroomstickPilot]

Mark 3:16,
I have just revalidated my JAA PPL after many years of being 'expired'. Despite being available to fly full time, and despite being based in the relatively much drier South of England, it has still taken me 20 months!.
Admittedly, some of this was due to poor instructors: I walked out of two clubs last summer and had to start all over again each time. By far the worst obstacle, however, was UK weather. At least two thirds of my bookings were cancelled from that cause alone. In 2004, between July and December I booked a whole week's flying six times and cancelled it all, one day at a time; and that was in dry Central Southern England, Northern weather was much worse!
My advice would be to go to the US, where you will have your FAA PPL licence within six weeks. (It doesn't matter which country you get your PPL in as long as it is an ICAO country, and the USA is an ICAO country). Then at least, you will have a valid licence 'in the bag'.
Then be prepared to put in a further twenty hours or so at a British club on your return before being allowed to exercise the privileges of your licence. You will need this to learn to cope with UK weather and extra complex airspace and busy radio. It sounds convoluted, but will be very much quicker and cheaper in the long run.
Broomstick.

[IO540]

I think the # of hours one will need to put in upon one's return to the UK depends on how thorough the US school was.

My experience is that FAA training is very thorough indeed, both at the PPL and the IR levels. Everybody I know personally (and trust) confirms this with their own experience.

OTOH, all the dissenters that I have come across are anonymous posters on pilot forums, and writers of letters published by certain pilot mags :O

So, 20hrs does seem generous. Still, there are various levels of experience, with the pilot feeling able to do different things at each level, and after say 20hrs post-PPL one may feel able to go on a 100nm cross-country flight (yes I know this is within PPL privileges but that's besides the point); after 100hrs post-PPL one may feel able to fly to southern France, etc.

[BestAviation]

I have to back IO540 up on this one. I was reading through the practical test standard for the JAA CPL the other day and was smiling. The level of experience expected is much that of an FAA PPL.

Not saying that the flying is any better or worse either place - but I'm pretty confident that if you pass the FAA ones the JAA ones should at least not be any harder.

As an exampel I can say that the school I'm with at the moment does (or used to do...depending on how you look at current events) both JAA & FAA training, and the first time pass seem to be very high for the JAA examinations.

Further a friend of mine now flying for Mesa Airlines (USA) did his conversion with OAT saying the same. JAA theory is a b****, but the flying is a piece of cake if you have previous FAA experience.

[Sensible]

My choice was and would be again to go to the Florida "factory" schools for a PPL you will get a PPL in 3 weeks if you are "average" and then a familiarisation with a UK club and you are "good to go" in the UK. You will save a lot in both time and money that's for sure. One piece of advice is to find an instructor at a local club who has flown in the USA, they will be more aware of the small differences between the UK and USA and won't be biased against you for saving a small fortune by training in the sun!:)

[BestAviation]

Just make sure your Florida "factory" school is one that offers JAA training and not just FAA training.

If you get an FAA one, you still have to sit the JAA PPL written exams back in UK plus do a new checkride.

[IO540]

You can fly a G-reg, worldwide, VFR, on an FAA PPL. On the FAA Class 3 medical.

You can also add the FAA IR to an FAA PPL.

I am fairly sure that most of those doing the JAA PPL in the USA are not aware of this.

[BestAviation]

So you mean the FAA and JAA PPL are considered equal on a G-reg airplane? Interesting, I have to find out more about this....

[Heliport]

Mark 3:16

This is a good place to start looking - Free PPL courses (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216932)


If you win a scholarship, not only will you get your PPL for nothing but you'll also be able to include in your CV that you were a winner.


Heliport

[Mark 3:16]

Thanks Heliport - have thrown my hat into the ring.
Had first lesson today - absolutely loved every second of it.