1966 Fares GLA - LON

[John MacCalman]

Good PPRUNErs,
I am doing some research into air fares forty years ago for a story I am writing about Glasgow (Abbotsinch) Airport's pending 40th anniversary.
In 1966 when the city of Glasgow's airport moved from Renfrew to its present location at Abbotsinch it was also around the birth of competition with British European Airways as main carrier competing with British Eagle and British United on the London routes.
I am keen to know what the one-way fare was between Glasgow and London in 1966. As far as I can remember, since this was well before deregulation, all the carriers would have the same fare. Can any of the youngsters on this forum remember what that was?
In the spirit of contributing something to the forum in return for info I hope to obtain, 40 years ago on an average weekday there would be around 750 seats available in each direction between Glasgow and London Heathrow or Gatwick.
You now have a choice of around 39 flights each weekday between Glasgow (GLA or PIK) and London (LHR,LGW,STN,LUT) giving a capacity in excess of 4,500 seats in each direction!
For the same story I am also seeking the published round trip first class and one way economy class fares, between Prestwick and New York. If my memory serves we right, 1966 would probably be prior to the availability of APEX fares and the only way to get a cheap transatlantic ticket would be by being a member of a charter club. Can anyone can recollect what kind of price the charter clubs sold seats to New York or perhaps Toronto as there might not have been any charters from Prestwick to NYC in 1966. I do have fares from 1971 - here's what I have for a round trip from PIK to NYC in 1971.
F £296.70
Y £162.50
Apex £112.95
As ever, I am grateful to PPRUNEers who have helped me in the past.

For those who might not be aware of my work in the past, my radio documentary, Tales from Kai Tak (http://exodus.interoutemediaservices.com/?id=d6ba6e88-517f-4a18-9512-5fec910cb014&delivery=stream), is still available for free for PPRUNERs to listen to and I will shortly be making it available as an I-Pod download.

Thanks,

John
Radio Clyde
Glasgow

[BEagle]

Can't give you the figures for 1966, but in the springtime a few years earlier, BEA was offering off-peak single fares from London to Edinburgh, Glasgow or Belfast for 83/-. Later, some BEA Vanguard flights prices were cut to less than the corresponding rail rates.

[John MacCalman]

Can't give you the figures for 1966, but in the springtime a few years earlier, BEA was offering off-peak single fares from London to Edinburgh, Glasgow or Belfast for 83/-.

£4 3s 0d might seem a pretty good bargain for a one-way in the early sixties but iy was close to my take home weeekly pay around then!

In 1971 I've tracked down round-trip prices of around £30 full fare and £20 discount. The key will be fares for 1966 itself so any pointers would be appreciated.

[Pom Pax]

To date Beagles fare I found this:-

1961
1 November: BEA introduced the world’s cheapest scheduled air fare on its routed between London and Glasgow, Edinburgh and Belfast on off-peak night services.

Source:- http://www.bamuseum.com/museumhistory60-70.html

[bean]

Single fares 1966:-
April 1st to May 31st £6 9/-
June 1st to June 30th £8 7/-
July 1st to September 30th £8 14/-
October 1st to October 31st £8 7/-

Source; British United timetable for that year

[renfrew]

From BOAC timetable Jun/Jul 1966
Prestwick/New York Super VC10 and 707's
F one way £127 3 return £241 12
Y one way £69 13 return £132 7 (mid summer peak season fares were higher)
Excursion £96 16 (14-21 days excursion) (peak season was higher)
Ken.

[ALock]

Summer 1967, Singapore to LHR £186 - one way. BOAC in a good old 707.

[Blacksheep]

Summer 1967, Singapore to LHR £186 - one wayYou were headed in the wrong direction, I fear. ;)

In 1971 I brought my wife over from Kuala Lumpur to Luton on a Britannia Airways charter flight (a B707 it was too) as a member of the Malaysian Students Association charter club. She wasn't even a student, but no matter - it cost M$400 which converted to 54 pounds at the time. (As an RAF corporal my pay was 128 pounds a month.)

[ALock]

Yes it was! Three weeks later though it was back to Singapore - Lynham to Tengah (Changi closed at the time) to finish the remaining 15 months of my tour at Seletar. :D

[John MacCalman]

Thanks to everyone who contributed a wealth of information in both open forum and in private mesages. I've completed the story and will make a copy available here at the time of the anniversary - don't want other journos stealing it before then!

I remember the old Renfrew Airport. Earliest memories are as a very young boy meeting my dad of a flight from London befre they built the art decco style terminal. My memory is of a big black hangar type terminal - this would be mid 50s.

[spekesoftly]

Seem to recall reading somewhere that there had originally been a plan to move it from Renfrew to Abbotsinch, and that it had been constructed to allow for this.

Some pictures here:

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/renfrew_airport.jpg

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/renfrew_airport_kininmonth.jpg

[Captain Airclues]

Just out of interest, the fares for 1935 were;

Glasgow to London (Croydon) £6 (single), £10 (return) with Railway Air Services.

Glasgow to London (Stapleford) £6 (single), £10 (return) with Hillman Airways.

Looks like a bit of 'price fixing' to me. Does the EU know about this? :D

source; Bradshaw's Air Guide March 1935.

Airclues

[Musket90]

I believe part of the M8 motorway where it passes the old Renfrew site is actually built on the old Renfrew runway. I was at Abbotsinch the day it opened and remember seeing B.Eagle 1-11, BEA Comet/Trident which previously didn't use Renfrew.

[John MacCalman]

Thanks to all the PPruners who contributed info to me for the story I was writing for Scottish Travel Agents News (STAN).

I believe BAA reprinted part of it in the Glasgow Airport staff mag (with my permission) though they understandably omitted a couple of bits that mentioned PIK!

As the original publication (STAN) is not available on line, I figured some might be interested in seeing how it turned out.


40 Years Flying - What Price Competition?
In the early 60s, Glasgow Corporation (now Glasgow City Council) decided that a new airport for the city be constructed at Abbotsinch to replace the existing facility at Renfrew. It was a controversial plan, as central government had already committed millions into rebuilding Prestwick Airport fit for the "jet age".

The new Glasgow Airport, designed by Basil Spence, opened on 27th June 1966, but the political rows over Glasgow (GLA) and Prestwick (PIK) airports continued for many years. At the time, Prestwick was a thriving airport enjoying a monopoly over transatlantic traffic, while Glasgow was only allowed to handle domestic and intra-European traffic according to the government’s traffic distribution rules.

Competition did appear in some forms on the London routes with British European Airways as the main carrier competing with British Eagle and British United. British Eagle was soon to be bankrupt and British United was part of what would become B-Cal. Daily capacity to London was in the region of 750 seats. In 2006, you now have a choice of around 39 flights each weekday between Glasgow (GLA or PIK) and London (LHR, LGW, STN, or LUT) giving a capacity in excess of 4,500 seats in each direction.

From PIK, New York was best served with daily BOAC VC10 and SAS DC8 services along with 6 a week from Pan Am using a 707 and 5 a week from KLM with a DC8. BOAC also served Toronto and Montreal with separate flights daily. Air Canada used its DC8 fleet 8 times a week to serve various combinations of destinations like Shannon, Gander, Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and Winnipeg. Pan Am also had a weekly 707 flight to Reykjavik.

As PIK was the last fuelling point for the transatlantic hop, many of these flights had European origins. BOAC served London and Manchester. SAS served Bergen daily with a Caravelle that went on to Oslo as well as DC8 services to Hamburg and Copenhagen. Pan Am went to Berlin, Prague and Reykjavik, and, of course, KLM served Amsterdam.

Iberia had a 2 times a week departure to Barcelona at 3am with onwards service to Palma using a Caravelle. In amongst the big boys, Dan Air did the Isle of Man 6 days a week with a DC3 and Emerald Airways flew to Belfast with a Heron 4 times a day.

Glasgow’s new airport at Abbotsinch enjoyed a limited flight schedule in its early days. In the summer of ’66 London was the main destination with BEA offering 2 Comet and 11 Vanguard flights to Heathrow and British Eagle had 2 BAC 1-11 flights, while British United operated the same aircraft to Gatwick 2 times a day.

BEA was the main airline supplementing their London flights with Belfast 4 per day with a mix of Viscount and Vanguard aircraft. Birmingham had 3 Viscounts per day - one of which went on to Paris. Manchester had a mix of Viscounts or Vanguards 3 times a day. Jersey was served by 9 Viscount flights per week, and once a week there was nonstop flight in a Vanguard to Palma and a Viscount to the Isle of Man.

BEA also had several intra-Scottish flights. Aberdeen had 1 per day in a Herald; Benbecula was served daily with onwards service to Stornaway, then Inverness. Campbeltown was also daily in a Herald with onward service to Islay and 4 times a week with a Heron. Edinburgh had 2 per day with a Herald which went on to Aberdeen, Wick and Kirkwall and finally there was a twice a day service to Tiree in a Heron one of which went on to Barra.

Other carriers included Loftleidir with a weekly DC6 to Amsterdam and twice a week to Reykjavik. Autair flew an Ambassador to Blackpool 4 times a week, Icelandair had daily flights to Copenhagen and to Reykjavik with a Viscount and a weekly F27 operation to Vagar and Aer Lingus used the Viscount for their 5 times a day Dublin flights. British Midland served Leeds daily and East Midlands 4 times a week with a Herald.

British Eagle had a double daily service to Liverpool as well as a weekly operation to Newquay in a Viscount. Manchester was also served by Cambrian with a daily DC3 which went on to Bristol and Cardiff.

Outside of their jet service to Gatwick, British United operated three daily flights; Newcastle with onwards service to Amsterdam and Düsseldorf; Southampton, both flown by Viscounts and a Herald that served the Isle of Man. They also had two Viscounts a week to Jersey.

The cost of air travel might seem cheap till you take into account inflation. The first class round trip to London was £22.12s 0d and the Summer Economy was £17 8s 0d That would be around £237 and £183 in today’s prices. British United had a one way fare to Gatwick on £8 14s 0d - £91 today!

Flying to New York from Prestwick was no cheap matter. BOAC First Class return was £241 12s 0d that’s around £2536 in today’s prices. Discount economy with a 21 day APEX started at £96 16s 0d which equates to around £1016 today, so you can see that the back of the bus gets the best bargain these days.

And the Spanish Costas by scheduled flight were not cheap. A return to Barcelona would set you back £51 1s 0d unrestricted and £41 8s 0d excursion. That’s around £537 and £434 today!

If you wanted to hire a car at Glasgow, the Hertz car-hire tariff daily charge for a group A car (Mini, Ford Anglia, Vauxhall Viva) was £1.7.6d plus 4d/mile That would be the equivalent of around £14.50 a day plus around 17p a mile in 2006 prices!

In 1975, the British Airports Authority took ownership of Glasgow Airport, and when privatised in the late 1980s, it became BAA plc. When the restrictions on Glasgow were lifted, the transatlantic operators quickly moved from Prestwick. BAA then sold Prestwick off, and embarked on a massive redevelopment plan in 1989.

The roles of PIK and GLA have almost reversed over the years with PIK being a hub for low cost European operations while GLA has gone Intercontinental though PIK still has a major worldwide cargo facility.


GLASGOW AIRPORT SCHEDULED SERVICES SUMMER 1966 – SOURCE ABC

DESTINATION CARRIER FREQ AIRCRAFT >ONWARD SERVICE
Amsterdam Loftleidir 1pw DC6
Aberdeen BEA 1pd Herald > Lerwick
Belfast BEA 3pd Viscount
Belfast BEA 1pd Vanguard
Benbecula BEA 1pd Viscount > Stornoway/Inverness
Birmingham BEA 3pd Viscount 1pd > Paris
Blackpool Autair 4pw Ambassador > Luton
Campbeltown BEA 1pd Herald > Islay
Campbeltown BEA 4pw Heron > Islay
Copenhagen Icelandair 1pd Viscount
E. Midlands B. Midland 4pw Herald
Dublin Aer Lingus 5pd Viscount
Edinburgh BEA 2pd Herald > Aberdeen/Wick/Kirkwall
Guernsey BEA 1pw Viscount
Inverness BEA 1pd Viscount > Wick/Kirkwall/Lerwick
Isle of Man BUA 1pd Herald
Isle of Man BEA 1pw Viscount
Jersey BEA 9pw Viscount
Jersey BUA 2pw Viscount
Leeds B. Midland 1pd Herald >E. Midlands
Liverpool B. Eagle 2pd Viscount
London LHR BEA 11pd Vanguard
London LHR BEA 2pd Comet
London LHR B Eagle 2pd One-Eleven
London LGW BUA 2pd One-Eleven
Manchester BEA 2pd Vanguard >4pw > Palma
Manchester BEA 1pd Viscount > Birmingham
Manchester Cambrian 1pd DC3 > Bristol/Cardiff
Newcastle BUA 1pd Viscount >Ams/Düs
Newquay B. Eagle 1pw Viscount
Palma BEA 1pw Vanguard
Reykjavik Loftleidir 2pw DC6
Reykjavik Icelandair 1pd Viscount
Southampton BUA 1pd Viscount
Tiree BEA 2pd Heron >1pd > Barra
Vagar Icelandair 1pw F27

Now Glasgow has direct flights to over 66 destinations

PRESTWICK AIRPORT SCHEDULED SERVICES SUMMER 1966 – SOURCE ABC
Amsterdam KLM 5pw DC8
Amsterdam KLM 1pw Viscount
Belfast Emerald 4pd Heron
Bergen SAS 1pd Caravelle > Oslo
Berlin Pan Am 4pw 707/DC8
Boston BOAC 2pw 707
Copenhagen SAS 3pw DC8
Copenhagen Pan Am 1pw 707/DC8
Gander AC 1pw DC8 > Halifax
Halifax AC 2pw DC8 > Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver
Hamburg SAS 2pw DC8 > Copenhagen
Isle of Man Dan-Air 6pw DC3
London LHR BOAC 1pd 707
Manchester BOAC 1pw 707
Montreal BOAC 1pd 707
Montreal AC 1pw DC8 Toronto/Vancouver
New York BOAC 1pd VC10
New York KLM 5pw DC8
New York SAS 1pd DC8
New York Pan Am 6pw 707
Prague Pan Am 2pw 707
Reykjavik Pan Am 1pw 707
Shannon AC 2pw DC8 > Montreal/Toronto
Toronto BOAC 1pd 707
Winnipeg AC 2pw DC8 > Calgary/Vancouver

FARES
SCOTLAND USA
From BOAC timetable Jun/Jul 1966
Prestwick/New York Super VC10 and 707's
F one way £127 3 return £241 12
Y one way £69 13 return £132 7 (mid summer peak season fares were higher)
Excursion £96 16 (14-21 days excursion) (peak season was higher)

GLASGOW TO LONDONABC quoted just First and Economy standard fares for LON, plus slightly cheaper standby and 'night economy' fares.
First - roundtrip £22.12s
Economy £17 8s


Hope this is of some interest and thanks again to all those who kindly shared their memories!

[Musket90]

If my memory serves me right for Prestwick I think the BOAC VC10 JFK flt no was "Speedbird 537/8", the YUL B707 was 607/8, Panam was "Clipper 77/6".

The SAS Caravelle transferred to GLA and operated "Scandinavian 535/6" I think to CPH.

PIK in mid-60's also has some awesome military as well as civil adhocs - USAF/Navy C124 Globemasters, C133 cargomasters, C54s (based), C141 starlifters, RCAF CF104 Starfighter test flights with arrester bed to name a few military. Trans Caribbean, Flying Tigers, Overseas National, Saturn DC8s. Every day brought something unusual. What a great place it was and hopefully still is for variety.

[Talkdownman]

If my memory serves me right for Prestwick I think the BOAC VC10 JFK flt no was "Speedbird 537/8", the YUL B707 was 607/8, Panam was "Clipper 77/6".PIK in mid-60's also has some awesome military as well as civil adhocs - USAF/Navy C124 Globemasters, C133 cargomasters, C54s (based), C141 starlifters, RCAF CF104 Starfighter test flights with arrester bed to name a few military. Trans Caribbean, Flying Tigers, Overseas National, Saturn DC8s. Every day brought something unusual. What a great place it was and hopefully still is for variety.When I was posted to Redbrae in Jan 67 I flew standby on BA537/B707 Heathrow-Prestwick via Manchester, for £4 18s 0d ( about a week's wages as an ATCA III). BA537 flew on to KJFK (or was it KIDL then?). The BOAC VC10 flew the BA637 Heathrow-Manch-Prestwick-Montreal. The dear old New York-bound Clipper 77 originated from different points of departure on different days of the week including Copenhagen and, ISTR, Berlin (Fond memories of working in Prestwick Flight Clearance as an ATCA II) Hey, Musket, at that time your handle was a callsign for a Prestwick RCAF CF104 pilot (as also was Bugle 101/102, Captain McGregor ISTR)........any connection? The arrester was CHAG in those days. Took an age to re-set. As you say, it certainly was fabulous place for variety, have hundreds of B&W from PIK in '67. Oh happy days......

[Musket90]

No connection - Watching the CF104s was unforgettable

[Talkdownman]

And listening to them! The sound of a screaming elephant!