View Full Version : Submariners - A couple of questions.
parabellum
10th Mar 2006, 23:24
Just this evening watched a fascinating programme about submarines but it didn't say a whole lot about submariners.
At what point in their career, be they upper or lower deck to submariners get to wear the dolphins on their chest and do they keep them even if they go back to surface ships?
Heard a lot of reference to the command course for sub mariners and the effect it may have on a career if the course is failed, is this fact and does it apply equally to commands on surface vessels?
Thanks.
maccer82
10th Mar 2006, 23:28
Think that question will be better answered on Rum Ration...
Navaleye
11th Mar 2006, 00:02
Hate the damn things, but if as a prospective CO, you fail the Perispcope Test (aka The Perisher) course, you are given a bottle of Scotch and you never set foot on a submarine again. The stigma of having failed the course follows you thoughout your career and those that fail rarely if ever go on to command positions in surface ships and most leave. Tough life, but if you want the extra pay, that's the deal. It's the toughest course in an marine branch. Its hardly surprising that the RN has the concept of the "Submarine Mafia". With good reason, they were the best.
SASless
11th Mar 2006, 00:56
Must be a very simple test if there is that kind of stigma attached to failing! Now if it were a really hard test that only a few could pass....well now I could understand failing.
So...a candidate for command with all sorts of submarine experience fails....has his buttons cut off and saber broken...and cannot serve in a Sub ever. Seems a waste of talent that was thought highly enough of to offer him a chance at command.
Course if he cannot pass the command course and was returned to the crew and the skipper was lost for some reason then an unqualified guy might step up to take command I guess. Makes sense in a left handed way.
Wait a minute...but if non-hackers are given the heave-ho, and the rest of the officers have never been tested....how do we know they could step up and replace a lost Captain?:E
galaxy flyer
11th Mar 2006, 03:58
SASless...
A peculiarily American view; must be a tradition of the Royal's Senior Service, like Rum, Buggah and the Lash. Read Tom Clancy's book on Subs...good discussion on the Perisher course. RN very tactically-oriented Captains, US (due to one Admiral Rickover) very nuclear-engineering oriented officers and, hence, Captains. Our guys won't accidently blow themselves up; RN guys will let engineers worry about the boat whilst blowing the enemy.
The RN is ONLY service in the world to use a nuclear sub in anger...successfully!!!
GF
Two classes of ships.....Subs and Targets
The RN is ONLY service in the world to use a nuclear sub in anger...successfully that we know about.... :rolleyes:
Wait a minute...but if non-hackers are given the heave-ho, and the rest of the officers have never been tested....how do we know they could step up and replace a lost Captain?:E
Because the Executive Officers, second in command, also known as Number 1(?) - just think Riker in Star Trek, have also passed the Perisher course.
Although quite how you'd manage to lose the Captain I don't know, submarines are really quite small. Now on an aircraft carrier...
Ed Winchester
11th Mar 2006, 11:56
SASless...
Our guys won't accidently blow themselves up; RN guys will let engineers worry about the boat whilst blowing the enemy.
You said it.
alfred_the_great
11th Mar 2006, 15:16
It is possible, I know this as one of ex-CO's did it (and it was a T23, not a P2000). It's true about the never setting foot in a boat again though.
Both the CO and XO have passed perisher, it allows them to both watchkeep as required.
And for the fact that it's hardest maritime course - it's certainley not by pass rate. The dagger N's have that dubious privilage....
Tourist
11th Mar 2006, 17:10
I've got a couple chopped off the Perisher.
Even got the privelige of flying one of the buggers off 10 mins later.
(I suppose I should really give credit to the Observer/Crewman combo, but I was the a/c Captain)
SASless
11th Mar 2006, 18:16
I just cannot imagine a Brit "accidentally blowing himself up" as it was said.....my experience has been those who do so...do so intentionally. Both in the literal and figurative sense.
Navaleye
11th Mar 2006, 18:22
Just to clarify, The CO and his 1st Lt must have both completed and passed the Perisher. It is a test of leadership, command and control. If for whatever reason your teacher decides that you haven't made the grade, then the Master at Arms knocks on your cabin door with a bottle Scotch and you pack your bags. If you complete the Perisher, then your next assignment is as a Jimmy on another boat. If you fail you are rejected and you have to find another career. In the Navy or out. Everyone understands that from day 1.
Sort of like pilot training....
cornwallis
11th Mar 2006, 20:19
Parabellum what was the programme you watched called/station etc,as I didn't see it advertised.
Blacksheep
12th Mar 2006, 00:19
Speaking of those new careers in or out of the Royal Navy, we had a Perisher failure join us as a pilot. A strange person, who arrived from somewhere in Africa, bringing with him as personal effects, an ancient clapped out Mercedes Benz and a grand piano. He lived in a boat on the river and eventually left to start his own company, doing dodgy charters with a clapped out 707. Last heard of somewhere back on the Dark Continent. If we were to believe half of his tales of life in submarines, one would assume that all submariners are -how shall we say? - slightly eccentric?
galaxy flyer
12th Mar 2006, 00:47
Here is American submariner's view of the Perisher course.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_18/perisher.htm
You might have to copy and paste the address. Very interesting.
GF
SASless
12th Mar 2006, 01:32
Me thinks we will be reading more about that officer in the future. To be the first American officer on the course...why of course there was no "fear" of failure now was there? I bet he was absolutely sweating bullets the whole time. He is headed for the top office with his ability to perform and do show diplomatic skills as well.
Charlie Luncher
12th Mar 2006, 11:07
I think the RN is a poorer force after losing those vile, smelly and damned Un-British Pirates of the diesel submarine force. Some of the best/worst guys I have ever met/worked with, what is the polite way of saying someone is barking mad – oh yes they were very very eccentric.:ok:
Charlie sends
p.s dont miss you picking your scabs at all:yuk:
bad livin'
12th Mar 2006, 21:54
Right. In order to get your dolphins awarded, you'll first complete Dartmouth, common fleet time, fleet board, specialist fleet time, then obtain your navigational watchkeeping certificate in compliance with STCW at HMS COLLINGWOOD. Then, you undertake the rest of the junior warfare officer's course, soon to be renamed. The JWO course is a little short of 4 months long. You'll then, as a future submariner, go off to HMS RALEIGH and DOLPHIN, the RN Submarine School, where you'll learn submarine systems and a few other gems. You'll then carry out about 7 weeks of training on the reactor chemistry, physics, operation and safety of the reactor type of the boat you're going to. Then you'll carry out further training in dived navigation (very different to general service nav), periscope watchkeeping, and a host of other fun subjects including the SETT, or submarine escape training tank, where you undertake a series of ascents culminating in a 30m one from an airlock to simulate leaving the boat under unpleasant circumstances.
Once you're done at the school, you'll join your boat and crack on with the real fun....
And there's an awful lot more to Perisher than the periscope.
The Ferret
13th Mar 2006, 02:42
In an attempt to bring the aviation back to this thread - the most fun I had on a Perisher Course was being authorised to conduct a dawn airborne attack on a "black tube" off the Isle of Arran, discovering the boat at PD (periscope depth) and dropping 2 charges straight down the fin that blew the Teacher out of his bunk! :cool: :cool: :cool:
The Ferret
parabellum
13th Mar 2006, 07:14
Thanks to all who have priovided information, much appreciated.
Cornwallis - It was on a Discovery Science channel but I saw the programme in Singapore.
I particularly enjoyed the notion that beneath the waves were blokes fighting for their professional lives while the pingers hooned around on manual jumps discussing events in the Club Too Far. Happy days.
Tourist
13th Mar 2006, 10:25
Trying to remember the Casex No that was the live depth charge dropping alongside them at PD, to "show them what it was like"
My personal favourite just for the siren noises in the background during their post drop radio check in.
cornwallis
19th Mar 2006, 19:29
During your career as an officer on an ssn when do you get taught how to fight the thing especially as the USSR have taken all theirs home? Is it computer based training or just on exercise?I would imagine that as a new boy adjusting to life in a boat is hard enough without thinking about crazy ivans!