AEROFAN Flight Training (merged)

[ikea]

Hey, i saw an ad for Aerofan in Pilot last month, and their procves seem pretty good. I emailed them for more inform ,and they say they are full of UK students up until August i think.]

Now, at the same time, I was browsing the CAA doc on approved FTOs and I didnt see Aerofan on them at all.

Does this mean that this FTO is not recognised by the CAA. If so, what are the implications on my training? I want JAA licenses, but im not sure if they could be issed with Aerofan,

But I hope they are! As they seem really reasonable. perhaps the doc was a little out of date??

ANy help/account of your experiences would be great. Ive searched the forums. and I have heard people have trained here. SO im assuming its just an out of date document. Or my understanding of the situation is blurrud.

Does the CAA have to approve the school in order for me to get the JAA licenses, and hace ALL of my training approved?

[conor_mc]

Spain is a JAA member state - the CAA aren't the only authority that can issue JAA licences.

See www.jaa.nl (http://www.jaa.nl)

[blueb0y79]

Beware is all ill say (before someone throws a wobbly !). Make sure you check all that stuff out properly ! Also think of the language barrier and your ability as a pilot at the end of it all.

Happy flying

[ATP_Al]

I have the same problem - I'm looking to do a JAR FI rating but probably won't have the time or money until October. Aerofan looks great but what happens when you try to get the rating issued, and then try to get an instructor job in the UK?

But I can't find another European FTO that'll match it's prices!

Al

[ikea]

yeah, they are cheap, plus just a few hours away, no visa. no expensive airfare, nor jetlag. I hope they are goo, ive not heard many experiences of them thought, but I was told by AEROFAN that all UK places are ful up til Summer, so theres definately a few Brits there!

[aerofox47]

blueb0y79 please check your PM.

AF

[karanou]

I would be very interested in any feedback about this FTO either good or bad, does seem to appear very good .... or would that be 'too good to be true'


Would be interested in any info ex or current UK students have regarding training with Aerofan

Cheers in advance

[pipertommy]

I second that !Any feed back is vital for someone considering this as a training provider.I did put up a post to talk directly about aerofan`s standards, so to speak.Surely someone on here has trained there?

[cliste]

Hi All,

Been down to Madrid and visited Aerofan !

Experience..



Located in Cuatro Vientos suburb of Madrid a busy Airport with Military and GA flying.

Aerofan had 2 sims about to be commissioned when I was there an ex Japan Airlines Beechcraft Fixed Sim and an ex Gatwick Sim they were waiting on Phase 3 power to operate them.

The Aircraft is all maintained by inhouse staff, Cessna 152, 172 Bonanza and a twin Cessna.

Aerofan are located beside the Royal Aeroclub and have the use of their facilities.

Its a homely place all the staff are nice and helpful . This is an up and coming FTO its early days and they are trying to improve all the time.

Their pricing is indeed very competitive.


Regards,


Cliste

[pipertommy]

How far is aerofan away from the main airport which i would arrive at with i.e ezy?And is there accomodation close to the training centre? :O

[cliste]

Hi,

The public transport system in Madrid is excellent, you can take Metro it will get you close by.

Taxi from Madrid Airport cost circa €20 you can get a 10 journey public transport ticket for €5.40.

Accommodation around Aerofan is plentyful living in Spain is not expensive.

Aerofan have an arrangement with the Royal Madrid Aeroclub you can stay there if you wish and you have the free use of their facilities Pool etc.

If you need any further information pm

Cliste

[stratotanker135]

Aerodynamics are a far better school based in Malaga full ILS VOR NDB you don´t have to fly 50 nm away to start IR training they do a combined CPL/ME/IR with BCT kemble I also know 8 people who have recommended them, good English instructors trained at the former Bae systems in Jerez, check it out, theres a turbo type and 50 line training course available. Plus you can jump on the sea.

[JB2710]

Huge price difference between aerofan and aerodynamics.
Why is THAT?????????::confused:

[DickPilot]

I'm considering doing an IR there. Any help as to the quality etc. would be very valuable.

[Unusual Attitude]

I'm looking at doing an FI with these chaps in July this year and would appreciate any feedback before I book.

They have stated to me that they have trained many FI's from the UK recently so hopefully someone on here should have trained with them.

Regards

UA

[Big Piston head]

I had a good look at this price difference too and worked it out that at aerofan you have to fly out to 50 nm to start training due to madrid controlled airspace at aerodynamics its full ILS NDB VOR on take off and landings, price difference is that aerodynamics advertise an ME IR. including ME rating which puts the addtional 1500 quid on it. Aerodynamics are well respected in Spain, France and Germany and have several Euorpeans who fly for them.

[theprizefighter]

im training out of cuatro vientos and true it is a zulu airport (start vfr and at 4000ft above aerodrome u enter madrid airspace and change to ifr) we do our training in valencia for me ir, just wanted to get that sorted, not in aerofan either but they are flying here a lot and very busy fto,
regards P

[African Drunk]

Just back to ortiginal point the UK CAA must issue a rating from another JAA state.

[LEVC]

Has been done already, i know for a fact that at least 2 fellows from the UK did his FIC in Aerofan, no problems whatsoever, check it with the the UK CAA.

I did my FIC there and they where good and cheap, believe i did my integrated in Airmed and there is no possible comparation, besides you do 10 hours on C150 Aerobat and the rest in Beech Bonanza,
accomodation and food is cheap and good, weather is OK.

They arranged for me a room within the AD for 10 Euros per day, (of course there was no TV or Room service, just the bed a table chair, wardrobe, and separate personal Toilet and shower).
You can eat in the Restaurant within the ADfor about 8 euros a 3 course meal , very nice food, this is the restaurant of the Royal Aeroclub.

Only thing , try not to do it during july and august or you'll know what is sweating 10 Paints per hour.

Language is not an issue, since all FI's speak fluent english , so you'll do the ground instruction in english.

In recent months i've heard that they have a british FI.

:ok:

[hughesyd]

HI, Has anyone completed any training with AEROFAN , down at Cuatro Vientois airport in Madrid. Looking to complete my jet F/O with them and would apreciate any feedback anyone can give me who had any experience with them whatsoever. thanks.

[ikea]

hey, I dont think there are many who have on here. I asked a similar question, and I dont think anyone had personally trained with them, Which is a shame, They are very cheap, and some feedback would be great!

[sdryh]

I would also be very interested in finding out anybodys experiences at AEROFAN. I am looking to do my CPL, IR, Multi there?

Regards

Richard

[LH2]

I haven't got any experience with them, actually looking for a CPL myself.

I have noticed their price of around €47000 is significantly lower than what's quoted elsewhere. Even taking into account living expenses (estimated at €600/mo accom + €750/mo food in or near Madrid), it still works out some €20K cheaper than their competitor at Jerez.

I'm after a CPL but not interested on airline transport, so no ATPL. I am tempted to call them and inquire. Has anyone actually seen them / talked with them yet?

[Big Piston head]

Breathless brazen babble binned barred bollocked.

[pipergirl]

is it my imagination or is it everytime anyone asks about Aerofan, a wee plug for BCT/Aerodynamics seems to creep in?:confused:

[stuart youngs]

Yeah I could do with some information on aerofan. Seem to cheap, though. I had some experiances in the usa with cheap places .... dicing with death.

Aerodynamics seem a bit expensive for what they offer. You can get a similar price IR in the UK. surely?

I phoned Aerofan ( uk rep in spain) , he seemed very harreessed and busy and told me to look at the internet site....

[smllisland]

I agree pipergirl this forum seems to be full of the same advertising plugs over and over saying the same thing. I guess they cannot afford the banners.

[pipergirl]

yea, i know!!! lol

another classic one-
ask about Airways and u'll get bombarded with information on how great Flight Pass is+no information whatsoever about ur original query:confused:

[sdryh]

I have been trying to e-mail them now for the last 2-3 days asking for general information on CPL, multi, IR etc, and as of yet no reply????

I do need to call them, but I like to know some of the facts and figures before I speak to a flight school - I get a feeling that one or two out there can be like buying a second hand car of Arthur Daley!

Anybody spoken to them, or got any information sent from them??

Regards

Richard

[chipieflyer]

Hi there,

I e-mailed them last week ([email protected]) to get some info on CPL and IR training and got a reply back within a couple of days.

Don't have any first hand experience of the school but a friend completed his ICAO IR conversion with them and spoke fairly highly of them

[LH2]

I've noticed they have a different contact number on the Spanish version of their website (a fixed line number in Madrid, as opposed to a mobile on their English page). They also have a good deal more info in their Spanish page, with pricing details for individual courses, etc. Seems their ATPL does not include MCC unless you want it and pay some €5500 or so extra for it (makes sense I suppose).

Anyway, if anyone has any specific queries, I can get a Spanish friend to give them a call on their Spanish number and ask whichever questions come through your collective mind and report back.

[flying paddy]

Hi

I did mr MEIR at aerofan, and dont have a bad word to say against them, i had a really good time there and they taught me well. If anyone has any questions PM me, will be glad to help.

Flying paddy

[Fellow Aviator]

I heard that the Spanish CAA has done an audit at AeroFan. Sorry that I don't have more details of it. Somebody should ask the school directly about it...

[crap pilot]

I am looking for anybody that has recently trained with Aerofan. What i am interested to know is what the accomodation is like around the school and how much it cost to live out there. I have used the search and found nothing on actual living costs so any feedback would be very welcome.

Thanks

[scubawasp]

I would like to know too. When are you thinking of going?

[hughesyd]

hello, in reply to you both, i am going out to AEROFAN in october. i have researced accomadation for months in Madrid, and one thing that i have found is that it is dmm expensive to rent. Aerofan will put you in a house share with a few other guys if req. i am going over with my partner so need to find a place of my own. there are a few agencys in spain which you can pay ariund 200 eur and they will hook you up with a place. The feedback i have got is that there are 5 time more people looking for rentals than there are propertys to rent!. drop me a mail and let me know when you are thinking of going. i am thinking of doing a recce in the next few weeks, and if i find anything out, i will let you know.

[crap pilot]

I wanted to go as soon as possible but accommodation is holding me back at the moment and if it is too expensive i may not end up going for another 6 months. If when you go you could let me know how much its going to cost me for both shared and rented accommodation it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[hughesyd]

give James Ward a call at Aerofan. he said he could help me out with accomadation, the house share i think worked out at around 400- 450 eur a month, not to bad considering. There is a good metro system in Madrid for getting around, running straight into cuatro vientos.

If i get any more info i will let you know. Out of interest, what training r u going out there for??. i am hopefully enroling on the first officer jet course. im heading out to Ormand Beach in three weeks for my PPL and 50 hrs hour building, and then out to AEROFAN.

[crap pilot]

first officer jet course also as long as i pass the assesment. Ive tried calling but cannot get through and e-mailed them on friday but no reply as of yet. 450 euros isnt that bad. Maybe i will see you there and good luck with ormand beech.

[hughesyd]

to be honest mate, james isnt the quickest at getting back to you, give him a few days and he will usually reply, i get the impression he is pretty busy. well i am hoping to get out there in october, would be good to have another northern monkey on the course!!, catch you soon mate

[chipieflyer]

I recently e-mailed Aerofan to find out information on some of the accomodation. Apparently they have an arrangement with a local hotel for 37euro's per night. javascript:ol('http://www.hostalcervelo.com/ingles/index.html');

[crap pilot]

James at Aerofan replied to my email today and said that accommodation was available near the airport at around 250euros per month. This seems very very cheap and i am assuming that it must be shared for this price. Im am planning to go out there in a week or two so if anybody wants any more info just pm me and i will ask.

[hughesyd]

r u planning on just going out to do a recce or to start your course??. let me know because i am looking at going out in the next two weeks also to do a recce of AEROFAN and AEROMADRID. maybe we could hook up and share ideas.

[heathrow hawk]

You should also check out Aerodynamics malaga they have a better reputation in Spain, they are a little more expensive but they are based out of Malaga which is full IFR and don´t have to position for training. Your also on the coast.

[crap pilot]

hughesyd

Just going for a recce with a view to start in october. Id be glad to meet up. I will give you a call when ive got a date set and see what we can arange.

[hughesyd]

no worries mate, im actually just looking at flights for this weekend or next weekend. if you go, check out last minute .com for a hotel and flight deal. miles cheaper than even going direct to the easyjet, monarch or BA websites. going to give them a call tommorow morning to see if they are operational on saturdays, if so i think i will pop over this weekend.

[jimpearce]

Anyone done an IR with Aerofan, Madrid or know anyone that has??
Any recommendations?
Many thanks.
Jim

[metar]

Hi Jim

Was debating signing up for ME / IR with them today so would also be interested.... I know one person that had to return early because their 310 went tech (they only have one), but that doesn't really say much about the quality of their teaching.

PM me if you want to compare notes!

METAR
(It's all about the now)

[pipergirl]

an aircraft tech is not a reflection on teaching quality...it is one of those things that happens and you could be really buggared if you are under a time restriction
I supposed someone is going to use the opportunity to step in and recommend aerodynamics or something..how predictable:hmm:

[MDC123]

Dear all looking at Aerofan.

Please keep me posted and anything your research highlights (good or bad) as I am also looking at this place for early 2006 (full ATPL.)

Going to take PPL and hour build in Australia over this winter.

[Philip Aerodynamics]

I did my PPL in Auz great experience. Where you going East or West Coast, I´ll be over there (Perth) in November via H.K for a month. Looking forward to it.

[MDC123]

Going to East coast to stay with family in Sydney.

There are a few FTO's at Bankstown airport there but not sure which I will use for my PPL until I get there and check them out.

The price is more expensive than Florida but you come away with 70 hours.

Are you building up to ATPL?

[metar]

I´m currently out in madrid with aerofan working on my ME/IR and can certainly advise anyone if they PM me with specific questions. I would say that, inevitably, there are plus and minus points!

METAR
It´s all about the now!

[jimpearce]

and I have just returned after doing my IR, would be happy to recommend them but feel free to pm me with specific Q's.
Jim.

[aerosteve]

hey metar and jim,

i've drop you guys a pm about aerofan just looking for some info. anyone elso with any info, considering heading out to spain in january.

cheers steve.

[sdryh]

I have just finished my CPL and hour building in the USA and I am now looking at Aerodynamics in Malaga to do the IR and the Multi. Has anybody got any advice or and experience here?

Regards

Sdryh

[apruneuk]

I would appreciate any feedback/advice from any British students who have done their Modular ME-IR with Aerofan. I am considering going to them for mine in 2006. Any help gratefully received!

[scroggs]

Aerofan has been covered several times fairly recently here. Try a search for what info exists.

Scroggs

[apruneuk]

Sorry, I've I've been away from the fold for a while - wilco

[canker]

I need some general information about Aerofan in Spain.

How is the standard of their ME IR?
Do you have to fly far away to do approaches?
Is it realistic to do the JAA ME IR within 2-3 weeks?

Looking forward to many answers.

Canker

[alberto86]

hi,
a friend of mine was about to start his modular ATPL with Aerofan , but suddenly gave up because the school was not worth the money.
He told me about a poor management and a bad kept fleet and.

I might be wrong, but this is what he told me!

I suggest you to go and visit the FTO!

[FougaMagister]

Madrid/Cuatro Vientos airport has no precision approach procedure on site, so you would need to fly away to shoot these approaches. There are, however, several such airports nearby (Madrid/Barajas might be an option at quiet times, otherwise Madrid/Torrejon AB, etc).

The standard of their IR should be the same as in the UK since they are a JAA-approved FTO. Just make sure that your instructors are either very proficient English-speakers or British/Irish etc. natives.

2-3 weeks for an ME/IR? No way! Even with the world's best flying weather, I don't buy it. The MEP rating itself would typically take about 6 days to a week, which would leave you only 2 weeks or so for the IR... Yeah right! A 50-hour, JAA, Multi-Engine Instrument Rating course in 2 weeks?

As has been mentioned, the best thing to do is ALWAYS to visit the FTO and ask the relevant questions before commiting the sort of money we are talking about (around £9,500 at Aerofan if I recall).

Cheers :cool:

[Pole Hill]

canker,
I won't be doing the IR for a good 12 months, but if you go to visit Aerofan please let me know of your findings. I will be considering them myself since their IR is well priced; but I often wonder, is it too good to be true..
I like the idea of doing the IR in Spain just to go and live over there for a few months. Paella, yum :ok:
POL

[ramshorn]

I hear Aeromadrid are pretty good.Do a search.There have been numerous threads about them.A couple of friends of mine went there and were pretty impressed.

[hughesyd]

Im in spain for a year and i am doing some training with aerofan and aeromadrid, I am only hour building with aerofan at the moment, but poss plan to do further training with them. I have seen a few guys come through here from the UK to do their MULTI/IR here, none of them have had any complaints and in fact have said how good it is. This was only this year and i know of two already who have been offered jobs with airlines, so cant be that bad can it!!. I fly occasionally with some of the instructors, all who have a good level of english. It is true ythat there are no ILS radio nav aids at the airport, but as soon as you execute the departure procedure, you are right on a VOR to the west of the airfield, amongs others. I know also that they fly to other local airfield to practice aproaches. They do the IR in a 172, Bechcraft Bonanza and cessna 310 of which they have 2( new purchase in the last 3 weeks). I also hear they may be giving the option to fly the last 5 hours of the IR in a Cessna 402, a nine seater regional prop!. i have seen the aircraft in the hangar and should be ready in aroud 6-8 weeks.

ABOVE ALL, DONT TAKE TOO MUCH NOTICE OF NEGATIVE ATTITUDES ON HERE!. Granted sometimes people are right about bad schools and training, but it can also confuse and mislead you a lot. i spent months on here listening to peoples views, and in the end i was so confused i stopped asking. THE BEST ADVISE YOU CAN GET IS GO AND SEE MORE THAN ONE SCHOOL AND MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION. You will also get schools badmouthing each other. Ignore them and make up your own mind. ITS YOUR MONEY AND YOUR FUTURE!!. Best of luck!!!. P.s if you want any more info on Aerofan or Aeromadrid , PM Me.

[redout]

Madrid Barajas quiet for approachs, i dont think so, Class A only and Torrejon is a Spanish Military field. Most likely Salamanca or Valladolid. 2 - 3 weeks i dont think will happen, i know a guy at Cuatro Vientos doing Multi IR now and more likely 5 weeks, weather aint great at momemt.

[Dude~]

Not sure I would like converting to a C402 5 hours before my IR test... too many other things to concentrate on!

Also, I believe they don't test you on an ILS in Spain but you still get a JAR IR. May or may not be a propblem later on but I personally am glad I did UK training on a simple twin with ILSs.

[clarityinthemurk]

No ILS as part of IR test in Spain. Is this fact, examiner dependent, or just something you heard?

[hughesyd]

i agree with the comment of flying the 402 for the last 5 hours, you wouldt want to be flying a new type before a test!. But i am only going off what a instructor told me , and you know how these things can get lost in translation!. But dont beleive the rubbish about the aircraft being in bad order. I have flown them myself many times and they are in perfect order, they even have their own on site maintainance. I have flown some very old and knackered aircraft and beleive you me , Aerofans are not in that catagory.

[Manfred66]

I'm looking into doing my ATPL with Aerofan, I have read many stories that they are not UK CAA approved, so what does this mean really? Has anyone done their training with them and do they assist with gaining employment once training is completed?:confused:

[theprizefighter]

currently training in madrid and yes you do, do ils for your exam if examiner so requestls i have a guy sitting beside me here who did an ils for his exam only 3 weeks ago so please get your facts right before you post about such things. it will take average modular guy here 5-6wks to finish his/her ir weather dependent.

regards prizefighter

[learboys]

Contacted CAA
Spoke to a very helpful gent who explained the ins and out and directed me to their site with an approved list of flight schools. Bottom line if they not on the list they not approved. Don't go there for a CPL FLIGHT TEST. You can go do a multi engine IR only

follow this link http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applica tionid=11&mode=detail&id=1211 (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1211)

With regards to doing flight training in Spain. Aerofan is not approved. As yet they have not applied for approval, and it doesn't look like they going to even try, after contacting them, I was told I must arrange it myself with the UK CAA. Fat chance of that happening!

You can do it in Jeres, they are approved and there is an agreement in place with UK CAA.

hope this helps

[pipergirl]

yes, they are not approved as a CAA FTO, but they are a JAA FTO...
even if you do a course there with them ie rating (not licence) it is easy enough to transfer

[FougaMagister]

Of course Aerofan is not approved by the CAA - it's JAA-approved through the Spanish DGAC (a JAA FTO cannot be approved by more than one national aviation authority). Flight Training Europe in Jerez might be approved by the CAA (or have an agreement with them) since they used to be approved by the CAA as BAE Systems Flight Training (Europe). They have had to transfer to the Spanish DGAC when they became independent of BAE Systems (and had to re-register their aircraft in Spain in the process). Due to their UK origin, they might still have some sort of agreement with the CAA.

Training in a foreign JAA country is not a problem for later, the CAA make it easy enough to transfer.

Even if one has to fly away from Cuatro Vientos to practice instrument approaches, the (usually) good weather and lower quotes make the Spanish option quite attractive compared to typical ME/IR prices in Blighty.

Cheers :cool:

[Pilot_Link]

Before choosing an FTO whether in the UK, Spain or anywhere else, it's important to get a feel for the school, and equally important to try and get as much feed back from students who have recently trained at that school. All schools have their good and bad points, and the decision on where to spend such a large sum of money should not be taken quickly.
The schools in Madrid that are mentioned below are perfectly capable of providing the training that most people are looking for. But there are also many other schools throughout Spain, just as capable. Look around, compare, get feedback.

canker: To practice ILS approaches at any school located at Cuatro Vientos Airport, you will need to fly 35 minutes away to other airports where precision approaches are available. But don't forget that a large part of your course will be done either in a simulator or doing simulated non-precision approaches at local VORs or NDBs. This is not an issue. Cuatro Vientos is one of the best general aviation airports in Spain and is mainly focused on flight training. Whether or not you can do an IR in 2-3 weeks will depend on how many hours you fly a day. If you fly 2 hours first thing in the morning and another 2 hours in the afternoon, 2-3 weeks is reasonable. It's been done, and it's being done.

alberto86: I suggest you check where you get your information from before speaking out.

FougaMagister: Madrid Barajas or Torrejon are not available for flight training. The two main FTOs that cater for English students (located at Cuatro Vientos) both have UK native instructors available. 2-3 weeks for an IR. Speak to the guys who have done it.

Pole Hill: Speak to UK students that have recently done their IR in Madrid.

clarityinthemurk: The ILS is part of the IR test in Spain. BUT, if for some reason (weather etc) the examiner prefers to only test you on non-precision approaches, that is prefectly valid. Please read JAR-FCL Examiner Skills Test requirements.

Manfred66: Both Aeromadrid and Aerofan (the 2 FTOs mentioned) are Spanish CAA JAR Approved. Under JAR-FCL you can train for any additional ratings such as IR, MEP, FI, IRI etc at an approved JAR FTO.
The only FTO in Spain that can provide you with CPL flight training (if you have done your ATPLs in the UK), for the issue of a licence, is Jerez(at least that used to be the case) which is UK CAA JAR Approved.

Remember: ATPLs done in the UK. CPL flight training must also be done at a UK approved JAR FTO. ATPLs done in Spain. CPL flight training must also be done at a Spanish approved JAR FTO.

[Lamboo1]

Hello everyone,

I have just finished ATPL G/S and hour building. I was looking thru pilot magazine and saw an advert for Aerofanfto.com. Has anyboody been there or knows someone who has? Courses seem reasonablly priced and i like the MCC Airbus course !


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated


Many thanks and happy landings

Chris

[ianpa]

All I can say is get yourself over here. The instructors are good and the weather is fantastic. I have been here just over a week doing MEIR and have flown 29 hours.

[Andi]

Hey mate,
just came from Spain doing my FI course there.The school is small but
very good and organized.Have one C152 , 2 C172 ,2 BE33 (Bonanza ,nice A/C)
but one had gearcollaps on Ldg short while ago, 2 C310 and 1 C410.Not the newest for sure but ok.
Maintanance is done in own hangar (spanish hangar:rolleyes: )
All the stuff is very nice and helpfull,Instructors range from about 1000hr TT up to about 8000TT.
CFI is Alex E with about 5500TT.Examiners bookable nearly every day incl.Sat and Sun.
If u need more info PM me .hope it helps!:ok:

[scroggs]

Look back through this thread now I've merged the last year's worth of Aerofan threads.

Scroggs

[kissmysquirrel]

Just wondered if any other PPRuNer's were off to do any training in Spain at Aerofan in a couple of weeks time?

[hughesyd]

Hi There.
I am currently training at Aerofan. From the UK and have been out here in Madrid since early last year. If you need any info/advice before you come out i will gladly help you out. P.M me or reply here with any questions you may have.

[thirtysomething]

Hi,

I live about 20 minutes away from them in Madrid , so its a sure thing ill go out there next week to look around. Ill take a camera with me and pop some photos on one of my websites and post here.

If anybody is looking for advice about Madrid in general feel free to pm me. I have lived here for the last three years.

My objective is to become a FO on a jet or a turboprop flying as much as possible for a decent wage. My Spanish is ok, but id like to have a chance with UK / EU Airlines. I cant right now afford ( buying first house :rolleyes:) integrated so think it best ( at 29 ) to get stuck into modular.


What questions should I ask them ? What questions would you guys like me to ask , even if just as a matter of record on this thread ? I will be happy to note them all and make a comprehensive post when i get back.

[pipertommy]

Hi,it would be great if you could post some pics on here:ok:
If you could ask them about completing the me/ir in 3 weeks is it sensible time period and one for you what time of year would you say is the worst weather ie time to avoid booking? thanks for any answers you can give:ok: Thanks

[jar-dk]

Hey

Did my ME-ir at aeromadrid, which was not really recommendable in any way, but almost 60% of the times that aeromadrid cancelled a flight aerofan flew. Its not correct that there are no instrument airports within a hour - there are several - that being flight time in a Seneca not a warrier!

[thirtysomething]

Hi,

Ok keep the questions coming. I just found out the director of the Aeroclub onsite ( not commercially connected from what i can tell ) is a good mate of my fiances father ,, so im gonna meet with him also and get the lowdown.

[thirtysomething]

one for you what time of year would you say is the worst weather ie time to avoid booking? thanks for any answers you can give Thanks

I would say late November to early March is the time to avoid weather wise. Here you will lose 2/3 days to bad weather. The south coast is better at this time of year but expect to lose 1/2 days down south ( Jerez ) . Sorry I didnt see this part of the question first time around. During the rest of the year its all good here in madrid. The heat is at its highest in July / August where it might be a bit bumpy ( it certainly is for parachutists ..not that we actually stop jumping ) ..i can imagine the heat on the South coast combined with humidity ( Malaga ) is oppressive.

[pipertommy]

Thats great thanks!It`s going to be Aerodynamics or Aerofan.Was thinking of March time so the south coast maybe a better bet then for the better weather?

[thirtysomething]

Yes i think in March the South coast would provide better weather , not by much though , less rain but more wind and fog possible. If you pushed your trip into April either place would be a better bet as both regions are between the summer ands winter ( there is no real spring our Autumn in Spain )

Dave

[pipertommy]

Thanks again i`ll have to have a good look at my dates!I have to complete it in a three week time scale,so the weather is very important to me(as it is to everyone i guess):ok:

[thirtysomething]

Ok,

I went to make the appointment with them and was told that they dont do PPL´s in English. He told me the only place to do it (PPL ) was a centre in a tiny little airfield ( no facilities ) called La Juliana in Seville. I was very specific and he was going to lenghts to say this was the only place. I since discovered Malaga... I cant say im impressed .. if he is not confident enough to mention/ ackgnowledge his competitors...Malaga would seem a better place to do the PPL and begin the modular route.

[jar-dk]

I disagree in your complaint, he is not an info center - its a business and I believe a tough one. We are out of the nursery now and here it deals with big bundles of cash so why do you believe what other people say when they have a economic stake in it??? Dont expect them to tell you to go over to competitors, or maybe he knows of things in Malaga you dont! Maybe im a cynic but I have been through the entire process and I have learned 1 thing, check check and double check and seldom believe what schools promise you, let me give an example, spains biggest school aeromadrid promised me the world and delivered none of it, So size does not matter either in this business ( luckyli :} ) The schools are in it for the money - since they are a business and not a school in classic term -and the CAA is in it to enforce the state rules, and they are the best source of info on what is aloved along with places such as this great site for rumours and tales from the real world!
Grap oyur ppl in the states - its fast and cheap!

[thirtysomething]

Ok, point taken.

[potkettleblack]

If you go and see them ask them how many of their students have gained employment back in the UK. Ask them to NOT include the guys with thousands of hours on jets that are converting to JAA licences. Be interested to know their take on this. Cheers

[hughesyd]

I think if you read all the posts then you will find your answer!. As i have said before, I have seen a few modular guys come though here (Aerofan) and are now in the RH seat of a jet. Most guys who come out here, come out to do their multi/ir rating. For this Aerofan is perfect, a great little, you get what it says on the tin, all in 3 weeks. The standard is high and the aircraft are i top condition.

I am also training with Aeromadrid and yes , the all singing all dancing pilot schools are not aleways the best when it comes to personal service, but the facilitys are second to none(you do pay for it though). So to summarise, if you just need a rating, get out to Aerofan , without the best place for the price. if you want structured full modular training, then look elsewhere as they cant really provide this too international students.

ABOVE ALL, DOT TAKE MINE OR ANYBODY ELSES WORD FOR IT, GO AND CHECK THESE PLACES OUT YOURSELF!!!!

[hughesyd]

hey, who stole the words from my post!!!!????:bored:

[bellyfluffer]

Does anybody who is out in spain know what the next available start dates are at either aerofan or ADmalaga as this may be the deciding factor on which i go for?
How busy are they at the moment?:ok:

[F199]

I left there last Friday and there where two guys doing there complete IR, they where nearly finished, but the best is to ask them and they will tell you what availability they have. If they dont have a place they will tell you...

[bellyfluffer]

Ive managed to speak to them, but i do have afew questions if you have time?

[F199]

Hi Belly fluffer!!

What do you need to know??

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

I want to go to AEROFANFTO. How is the transportation to the school.
Is there any bus/subwaystation near the school?

[jar-dk]

The Cuatro Vientos metro stop is on the military side of the airfield and thats a fair walk. Busses on the other hand run very close to the entrance of the aeroclub, depends where you wonna stay in madrid, how your transport situation will be. From the center its about 40-50min, on the trains + bus and from the southern suburbs maybe 35min on the bus.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

ok thanks alot for the info. If you know any cheap hotel with good bus connections to the school please post.

Aerofans offer of hotels was a bit on the high side regarding price.

[DC-8]

I want to go to AEROFANFTO. How is the transportation to the school.
Is there any bus/subwaystation near the school?

Hi Jimmy!

It takes about 30 minutes from the centre of Madrid. I'll tell you the route I do to get to LECU:
From Atocha Railway Station you take the train (Cercanias) to Mostoles/El Soto (Line C-5) and you get off in Aluche Station. There you take one of the following busses 483 or 487 and get off in the stop following the NISSAN factory (better is to request the driver to tell you when to get off: just say you go to Cuatro Vientos Airport). Then walk into the aeroclub and ask somebody to tell you where Aerofan is exactly, it isn't difficult to find.

If you prefer another beginning of the route just tell me!

For more info:
http://www.renfe.es/cercanias/
http://www.metromadrid.es/

Nice flights!

[hughesyd]

IF ANYONE NEEDS ACCOMADATION THIS SUMMER/WINTER FOR AEROFAN , I CAN HELP. PM ME FOR DETAILS

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

A big thank you to you all. Thats why I love this forum.

[morfa]

Dear All,
Just conducted a search of previous posts on Aerofan Madrid. I did not find what I was looking for!

Could anyone from the UK, currently conducting Multi IR training at Aerofan Madrid kindly give me some advice on how things are going and if indeed it is prudent for me to conduct training there.
Thank you all in advance-sorry if this has been done to death.
Regards morfa

[Mercenary Pilot]

You didnt try very hard...its on the next page:p

Heres the link http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215585

[morfa]

Yep,

Mercenary pilot I do appreciate your guidance and assistance.
I saw that thread but was trying to get feedback from guys or gals actually training.
Kind Regards
morfa

[unstable_aloft]

Hi all,

thanks, I've read some very encouraging comments about both Aerofan & Aerodynamics. I'm planning on visiting them both very soon, as anybody should do when contemplating spending big money on IRs and CPL courses.

I do have a query though which I haven't seen in previous threads:

The Aerodynamics website doesn't list a CPL course, so I gave them a ring to check if they do run a CPL course or not. Yes they do a CPL course, but the skills test would have to be done back in the UK?

Aerofan doesn't seem to share this problem, they even publish their prices as including the skills test, and as long as an FTO and the examiner is JAA approved it's valid in the UK right?

The only reason I can think of is because Aerodynamics may not have a local examiner?

However, if anybody knows different, and thinks I would have to do a CPL skill test back in the UK no matter where I did the CPL course, please let me know.


Many thanks,
Unstable_Aloft
(yes I happen to have had ATPL Met in front of me when I registered)

[smith]

If you do the ATPL's in the UK the CPL must be done in the UK. ME/IR can be done in any JAA state. If you did the ATPL's in Spain the CPL has to be done in Spain etc.

[BillieBob]

If Aerodynamics are telling you that they can run a CPL course but the test would have to be done in the UK, you should be very wary. The UK CAA will not allocate an examiner to conduct a Skill Test unless the training has been completed at a UK approved FTO. Furthermore, I assume that you are prepared to complete the theoretical knowledge examinations in Spain and to have the licence issued by the DGAC - will they accept a Skill Test conducted by an examiner from another State for licence issue?

The instrument rating is not a problem but all licence training must be completed in the State of Licence Issue - you cannot mix and match (except where there is a specific agreement in place, as between the UK CAA and the IAA)

[unstable_aloft]

Thanks guys,

I've passed the 14 ATPL exams here in the UK with BGS.
From what you have said, sounds like I can do ratings in other JAA states (MEP & IR), but the CPL must be done over here (because I did groundschool and ATPL exams here).

Thats a shame :( , would have been nice to do the ME/IR in Spain and follow straight on with the CPL, but I suppose I'll just have to come back home for the CPL.

Cheers,
Unstable_aloft

[jar-dk]

Yes - its awfully simple - ratings are not licences....
There are 3 licnces - PPL - CPL-ATPL - (maybe there is even atronaut.. heheh ) and the rest are ratings!!!!!!!!
You have to do the licence test in the theory country, thats it! (since its JAA im sure some schools are exempt.... since there is nothing without an excemption n JAR)
Im sure James at aerofan would be very good at determining what can be done and not. I have talked to him a few times, and he has been excellent at repelling business, by saying that he is not sure and that I should talk to my CAA and get clearence before we start. Nothing shady there.

[smith]

Not quite true jar-dk. You can have any ICAO PPL to start the ATPL's, ie American, South African, Australian etc etc. It is only after the ATPL exams that you have to do the CPL in the same member state.

[jar-dk]

YEP that is basicaly what I wrote! PPL does not really have anything to do with ATPL theory (or be it CPL theory since they are both valid prerequisites for your cpl skill test) - the ppl only has to be recogniced by the CAA in that particular country so you can begin the ATPL theory tuition.

[F199]

I heard that the CAA are not accepting ratings from Aerofan any more, anybody know about this? Something about their FTO not having the correct documents.

[hughesyd]

Tell us more, where did you hear this and how recent????. Im not sure if you are correct. There are 2 or three brits on the Aerofan Multi /IR at any one time. On completion You simply send off your paperwork to Gatwick and it is stamped.

If there are any problems i would like to know.

[Me-Uk]

As a new user, I wouldn't want to contradict anyone, but I am surprised to read what has been posted in this forum. I got back from Madrid (Aerofan) just two weeks ago, took the Aerofan file along to Gatwick, together with my licence, logbook etc, and (after paying the usual ****ing CAA fee!!) got my IR and MEP inserted 2 days later. Aerofan was recommended from a friend who completed IR conversion training there in April this year. He didn't seem to have problem at either.

If you can forgive them for being Spanish, it's a school I'd highly recommend!!!

Enjoy the sun!!

[morfa]

Me-UK
Thank you for the post and all who have responded.
morfa

[bellyfluffer]

Hi all,
Has anybody got any updates or info on the rumour 'above' about the CAA refusing Aerofan ratings?

[2close]

The CAA shouldn't refuse Aerofan's ratings, unless the Spanish DGAC has pulled Aerofan's IR training approval in Spain.

If a FTO is approved for IR training in one JAA member state the rating should be recognised for inclusion on a licence issued by any other member state.

It only applies to CPL training, where foreign FTOs must be formally approved by the state of licence issue, e.g. FTE (Spain), EFT (USA), but they are still audited by the UK CAA.

HTH

2close

[bellyfluffer]

2close
After lots of researching thats exactly how i understood things, which is why reading 'above' i was surprised (that and the fact that im due to start in spain very soon!)

[hughesyd]

flew with aerofan today, asked the manager directly today. Its not true at all and its the first he had heard of such a thing!!.

Bad rumours can be damaging to a FTO, especially on here.

Be careful boys and girls what you print!

[bellyfluffer]

cheers hughesyd
good to know :ok:

[john cooper]

Hello everybody, I`ve been to Spain, and I`ve seen Aerofan school and I don`t recommend this school to anybody. You just go and see their airplanes: very old and broken, nothing works inside, and they say they have native instructors, but this is a lie. You can see it by yourself. And there is an express order given to the instructor to talk twenty minutes on gound to waste the flight time, specially on multi-engine. So, do not pay anything before seeing the airplanes. If you go to Madird, go and see the airplanes before, and talk to the spanish pilots, you can always find a bunch of them in the airport area. Don`t believe everything you read, they can put "we are the best", they can put whatever they want. I`ve seen Aeromadrid and Aerotec, and they`ve got new airplanes, one or two years old. Go and have a look first, and believe what you see.

[eolas]

I would not agree with these comments !

Sure the A/C are not new but they are well maintained onsite.

I agree with your comments to go and have a look.

Eolas

[david fraser]

Hello,
Yes, it`s true, old airplanes, very messy organisation and the worse, very bad reputation. It affects me each time I present my CV to transport airline.

[hughesyd]

Question, did you fly with Aerofan.

I for one am extremely picky when it comes to aircraft, i also feel i am in a position to comment on both Aerofan and Aeromadrid, as i am currently training with both and have been for the last year. I am also from the UK, have flown in the USA , UK, and Spain.

Aerofan aircraft are NOT IN A BAD CONDITON!!, on the contrary, they are maintained on site and kept in a very good condition, i can only assume you have been flying brand new planes in the past with a pretty little interior and fancy cockpits!!. Did you fly with any of the schools you mention.

The school is generally very good, and untill you have honestly flown with a few schools, you have nothing to compare them to. Aerofan run a good, highly efficient flight training school, at a very cheap price.Just look at the countless threads on here from UK trainees who have completed their IR Multi there.

Aeromadid are also a good school but expensive, also limited when they can fly.

You must have been unlucky with your instructor as there are 2/3 who speak very good english.

[hughesyd]

Hello,
Yes, it`s true, old airplanes, very messy organisation and the worse, very bad reputation. It affects me each time I present my CV to transport airline.

Well you have to blame something i suppose!!!, strange, i know of at least 3 guys from the UK who have been to Aerofan for their IR/ME training in the last 9 months who are now flying Jets.....737/a320.............maybe their interviewers didnt spot that they trained at Aerofan eh...:hmm: :hmm:

[hughesyd]

Ah John Cooper and David Frazer........welcome welcome.

As you have both joined at the same time, and this is both your first thread, sorry to hear you both have had bad experiences with Aerofan.

I see you both write in the same style...........hang on........i see a pattern emerging here...........:= := := :=

[david fraser]

Hello,
Yes i`ve been flying with Aerofan, and they are liars. They are announcing 402 Cessna, 3 years ago, but that plane never flew before with Aerofan. In the first test flight, last week, it had an accident, one engine broke, and there is damage everywhere. And you can ask by telephone if is true or no: 00 34 913210923. Have a nice day. I know you have to defend your company.

[hughesyd]

Dear Mr " David Frazer" ahemmm

For one , i dont think you are in any position to comment on the standard of anybodys English when yours, clearly leaves a lot to be desired!!.

Secondly, i DO NOT work for Aerofan as i have made quite clear , or perhaps you didnt translate the text corectly!. I do simply use Aerofan for building hours when i get spare time, using the aircraft you so wrongly point out as "broken ". As i have said before, i would not accept an aircraft that was in poor condition, and so far have never had that with Aerofan.

The 402 has never been advertised as far back as i can remember as a option to fly with Aerofan, untill recently. It has however advertized the 310 of which it has 2 and both are usually fit to fly. The 402 has been having a full rebuild,being made available if so desired as a option to complete the last 15 hours of the ME/IR in a big 9 seat twin aircraft.

Why you would want this option anyway is beyond me. there is enough to contend with, without having to learn a whole new aircraft on top of completing you IR/ME. Remember , this is a option they are going to offer, at present they offer the ME/IR in the 172 and then onto the 310, of which i have never known anybody have any problems, in fact a great aircraft to fly.

I had better watch out tommorow when i am taxiing at Quatro Vientos if the aircraft is broken all over the place!!

[john cooper]

Aerea, Aerotec, Aeromadrid. These are ok. I had very bad experience with Aerofan or ARE aviación. Good luck.

[nuclear weapon]

I personally know someone who just got back from aerofan after going there to do his meir conversion. He got it done for a fraction of the price he would have done it for in this country and the caa had no problem issuing him his ratings in fact he's already going through ctc.
He said he would recomend them to anyone. I am personally planning to go there myself and asked th caa point blank if they refused ratings obtained from any spanish school and they denied it categorically.
As long as you start and finish with them they have no problem issuing it. It is the atpl and cpl that you have to do in this country. I dont know where this rumors come from. Like every school in the uk they are not perfect and you will get one or two people who have problems with them. The same could be said of any school in this country including oxford.

[smith]

Is the multi IR rating a single test or is it two seperate tests ie multi + IR? I am thinking of going to aerodynamics malaga for me/ir and they seem to have the option of both. What do the airlines want?

[hughesyd]

It is the atpl and cpl that you have to do in this country.

Not true, you can do your ATPLs and CPL in any jaa registered state. You just generally have to do them both in the same state unless authorised and agreement is reached by 2 states. you can also do your full training in spain, then change your licence to a UK licence.

[BillieBob]

The JAA member state that issues an individual's first JAA licence is, by default the state of licence issue and any further licences must normally be issued by that state. Therefore, if you hold a JAA PPL issued by the UK, you must normally have the CPL (and ATPL) issued in the UK. It is possible to change the state of licence issue but there are certain employment and/or residency requirements that must be fulfilled and both states must formally agree to the change. Subsequent ratings may be gained in any member state and will be entered into the licence by the state of licence issue. (JAR-FCL 1.065)

It is also possible in certain circumstances to commence training for a licence in one member state and to complete it in another. However, the requirements for this are quite stringent and the states concerned must again have a formal agreement, including which is to be the state of licence issue. The only such agreement in place at the moment is between the UK CAA and the IAA concerning the modular CPL(A) course for which the theoretical knowledge may be completed in either state and the flight training in the other.

In normal circumstances, therefore, it would not be possible for the holder of a JAA PPL issued in the UK to elect to undertake CPL training in another member state unless they took up residency in that state (JAR-FCL 1.070). To subsequently transfer the state of licence issue back to the UK would require residency to be re-established in the UK. Seems an awful lot of hassle to save a few quid on flight training!

[david fraser]

In the Aerofan Ad, they say: "native instructors", and the only one native is you. But if you call the office (not the mobile) they will answer you: "I "j"ave to go "j"ome. And this is another lie. One airplane from Aerotec or Aeromadird costs five time more than one of Aerofan. So everybody: phone the tower, phone aerofan office, check out before it`s too late. Ask people who have flown with Aerofan.

[BlueRobin]

Oh scroggsy...

You gotta the R in ppRune :D

[hughesyd]

:eek: In the Aerofan Ad, they say: "native instructors", and the only one native is you. But if you call the office (not the mobile) they will answer you: "I "j"ave to go "j"ome. And this is another lie. One airplane from Aerotec or Aeromadird costs five time more than one of Aerofan. So everybody: phone the tower, phone aerofan office, check out before it`s too late. Ask people who have flown with Aerofan.

If your a native english speaker ......ill show my arse in Madrids main high street!!:eek: :eek:

What the hell are you talking about!!

One thing i will agree with you is ask everybody who has flown with them. there are plenty of threads on here which support the school.

Claiming that Aeromadrid and Aerotecs planes are worth 5 times more is a bizzare statement to make you fool!!. As i have said , the aircraft are in tip top condition.Just as good if not better than the other aircraft the other schools are flying, remember , i have flown with all off them.

I suggest you go and find a quite corner and have a word with yourself!. I accept that you may have had a bad experience with Aerofan, whatever it may have been, its a sad fact that this happens with some people at all FTOs at some stage. What does annoy me is when you make bizzare and stupid statements about things which are clearly not true.

Are you sure the problem didnt just lie with yourself, did you fail?, tell us really why you have a axe to grind with this FTO?

[david fraser]

You shouldn`t be worried my friend, and loose your good manners, I understand you. But I think I understand you because you won`t loose your job. Because I know that you can do it better without them. And there is no native English teaching in Aerofan, it a lie and the airplane are in very bad conditions. And their reputation is very low. So friends, take care form these two schools: Aerofan and ARE aviation. There are very good school with very good airplanes like Aerea, Aeromadrid, Aerotec. I`m not working for any of them, and I have no interest like "other people". Thank you.

[Me-Uk]

The first thing I’d like to mention is that I think it’s a shame that the Pprune webmaster can’t take some sort of action against people who quite clearly talk utter rubbish. A forum is an area for discussions and for people to give there point of view in an organized manner, not just handing out unruly criticism.

As I have recently completed IR and MEP training at Aerofan in Madrid, I can provide you with a first hand opinion.

The planes are old but very well maintained. The school has a maintenance facility on the field with engineers available throughout the day. Of the two Cessna twins that they have available, one of them had a remarkable avionic set up, including HSI and FD (which obviously were not used). The Cessna 172s have the standard basic panel, but the Beechcraft Bonanza has dual instruments and was an impressive plane to fly.

I was told that they are planning an option in the future that will allow students to fly the C402, but I was not offered this option when I was there. The Cessna 310 was superb.

I was assigned two instructors for my training. One British, and another one Spanish and who is also the CFI. No language issues at all. I found the quality of the training well above what I expected, and the general feeling I got whilst I was over there was that they made me feel like a real customer.

I handed in the Aerofan file to the CAA at LGW and they inserted my rating in record time. There’s quite a lot of paper work involved, but I didn’t have any problem whatsoever.

I was recommended the school by two people who have trained there and in fact are now working for two well know UK LCCs as copilots. I have since personally recommended this school also to several friends, and a one of them has just completed a ME-IR. I have not heard of any complaints. But obviously if you’re looking for top notch brand new aircraft with leather seats, AC, and AP, I would not recommend Aerofan.

Without doubt there is no FTO that is perfect I’m sure that Aerofan has had some unhappy customers over the years. But the feeling and impression that I got whilst I was there, was that they know their job, and they know what they’re doing. I can’t say the same for some of the flying schools that I’ve trained at.

So, if in doubt, go and visit them, speak to the staff, speak to the instructors, and more importantly, speak to some of the many students that have been there before. That’s the homework to do. I did mine.

* Oh, and by the way, for those from the north like myself, I warn you, it gets hot out there in Madrid!!

[hughesyd]

You shouldn`t be worried my friend, and loose your good manners, I understand you. But I think I understand you because you won`t loose your job. Because I know that you can do it better without them. And there is no native English teaching in Aerofan, it a lie and the airplane are in very bad conditions. And their reputation is very low. So friends, take care form these two schools: Aerofan and ARE aviation. There are very good school with very good airplanes like Aerea, Aeromadrid, Aerotec. I`m not working for any of them, and I have no interest like "other people". Thank you.


OK, my last reply on this issue, because quite frankly, i wish i had a clue what you were saying !!!:eek: . I get the gist of some of it but really the rest makes no sense at all, should i or shouldnt i be worried?:eek: do you or do you not understand me?:eek: , what job wont i loose?:eek: what can i do better without them?:eek: who are all these liars?:eek: if they have a bad reputation, why have i never heard any of it in the year i have flown with them?
1 FACT there is native english teaching if you want it.(call Aerofan and speak to James Ward)
2 FACT , the aircraft are in very good condition
3 FACT Aerofan have a good enough reputation if you read all the feedback on this forum
4 FACT, contrary to what Mr David Fraser or whatever his real name is in Spanish thinks, i do not work for Aerofan, but use them regularly.


As for the last post from me-uk, well done , i couldnt have put it better myself. :ok: :ok:
If in doubt, check it out for yourself

[david fraser]

You shouldn`t be worried my friend, and loose your good manners, I understand you. But I think I understand you because you won`t loose your job. Because I know that you can do it better without them. And there is no native English teaching in Aerofan, it a lie and the airplane are in very bad conditions. And their reputation is very low. So friends, take care from these two schools: Aerofan and ARE aviation. There are very good school with very good airplanes like Aerea, Aeromadrid, Aerotec. I`m not working for any of them, and I have no interest like "other people". Thank you.

[mcgoo]

Ah John Cooper and David Frazer........welcome welcome.
As you have both joined at the same time, and this is both your first thread, sorry to hear you both have had bad experiences with Aerofan.
I see you both write in the same style...........hang on........i see a pattern emerging here...........:= := := :=


absolutely, what a pair of chumps!

[quackers]

I don't normally contribute to these forums but, having read the absolute codswallop written by Mr COOPER & FRASER (or whatever his real name is!) I felt compelled to stand up for Aerofan. I spent three weeks with them last year to do an IR and found them to be very friendly and they provided exactly what they said they would (and on time!). I've flown with various schools in the USA and the UK and take it from me there are previous disgruntled customers for all of them - and in my experience, most of the time it is down to the students attitude or lack of ability - looking to blame someone else for their failings. Sure, there are some instances where the schools fail to deliver but that happens in all businesses.
As far as Aerofan's aircraft are concerned, I never had a problem. OK, they are not brand new but that is reflected in the cost. Whenever we encountered any mechanical problems they were fixed very quickly by the on-site engineers. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Aerofan to anyone to add ratings (ME or IR). However, I think it would be wiser to do your PPL and CPL in your native country - I did my CPL in the States and I can assure everyone that there are procedural differences (eg, Radio procedures, Approach Plates, NDBs etc etc). I found the transition quite confusing when I returned to the UK to continue the IR. Good luck to you all!!

[smith]

I am thinking of doing the ME/IR at aerodynamics malaga. What is the process you have to got through at Gatwick when you get home to change it to CAA? Do you have to appear in person and can you just turn up or do you need an appointment? How much does it cost? PM me if you want thanks.

PS I think messers Fraser and Cooper sound like A320rider ......... gloom and doom merchants with pigeon english!!!

[LeeH88]

hughesyd, you're making alot of sense here, this chap obviously doesnt really know what hes talking about and I also see the similarity between john cooper and david frazer. The simple solution to you both (john/david) would be...Dont like Aerofan, dont go/train there, but dont try and poison people with your (what seems to be), quite an unfounded, immature opinion.

[david fraser]

Friends, take care from these two schools: Aerofan and ARE aviation. There are very good school with very good airplanes like Aerea, Aeromadrid, Aerotec. I`m not working for any of them, and don`t have any interests in them. I`m just telling facts. But always take a close look at them before choosing.

[david fraser]

I`m not trying to poison anyone, I`m just telling the truth. Watch out and look to all the FTO before, and if you can, ask and talk to the people in the airport building, they can tell you a lot about all these schools.

[gcolyer]

Fraser,

Keep up the good work!! Soon your reputation will preceed you (if it has not already) and you definatley wont get an aviation job. That just makes an extra vacancy for me if I ever get an ATPL.

[LeeH88]

You were trying to poison people, just when everyone has gone against you on this topic, you've changed your tune.

[Me-Uk]

I’ve got no idea how they do it at Aerodynamics. But at Aerofan they sent me a file once I’d completed my course which included, among a whole load of other documents (some of them were actually in Spanish and English!!), the signed CAA forms. All I had to do was to fill in the blanks, and provide my credit card details. I gave the file to the CAA together with my log book, and had my rating inserted with no problem at all. I suggest that you ring Gatwick before, as what they charge varies depending on what rating/s you need to have inserted.

I think most of this is all standard procedure, because at least in my case, before actually going to Madrid, I made a call to Gatwick, and the lady whom I spoke to knew Aerofan perfectly well. I assume this is probably the case with Aerodynamics.

[david fraser]

I haven`t change my tune at all. I`m still warning people to avoid this FTO. If you`d see their planes before, you wouldn`t go there. That`s why I`m saying to take a close look before.

[hughesyd]

come on then David Fraser!!!

back up your claim, when exactly were you at Aerofan and for what training??. Did you fly the Bonanza, 172 , 152 or 310s?. Tell us all what was exactly wrong with the aircraft?. A few flies stuck on the leading edge perhaps?, a chip of paint missing from the livery?, an old fashioned seating pattern, tut tut. In the year i have flow with them, i once had a defective radio, but hardly something that couldnt be fixed, in fact it was the next day.Tell us the truth and come clean with why you really had a problem with this FTO, after all we dont like lyers do we!!

I have flown some old aircraft in my flying experiences so far, interior falling to bits and so on. Aerfans are old but dont fall anywhere near into this catergory. They are very well looked after.

so come on , tell us what they failed you on???

[quackers]

Don't give this idiot the time of day - lets stop posting any more threads and ignore him - hes an absolute plonker. He'll never make a pilot as long as I've got a hole in my ****.

[visit99]

Ok…..It seems that there is a campaign here, and while I am loathe to even give it credit by responding, I would like to give my limited experience of Aerofan.

I too was curious as to whether it might be too good to be true. So I decided to take a visit.

I was met with nothing but courtesy, openness and friendliness - in stark contrast to several other schools I have visited to review, both in the UK and elsewhere.

The school is small, but I might suggest, organised.

The two native Spanish instructors I met both spoke English at a level that would be more than acceptable for any training.

I looked at their Cessnas and the Bonanza. The Cessnas appeared little different in equipment to many I have seen in other schools. The Bonanza instruments were somewhat aged, but did not seem to present a problem in flight. I say in flight, because I was given the opportunity to back-seat a two hour instructor training flight. How many schools do you know that would do that?

The instruction that I observed was high quality, as the aircraft (and pilot flying) was put though its paces, sometimes at the edge of the envelope. At least one safety critical error was picked up.

Most impressive is the approach taken to student booking and finance. The documentation is clear, and the financial integrity that I experienced was high. Other schools might do well to learn from them.

So, if you do want to learn to fly do at least two things:
1. Make sure that you are set-up to do it all quickly
2. Before proceeding with any school, go and visit.

Chiao

[ROI1900D]

Hi everyone,
Does anyone know when is the next ATPL modular course due to start??
I called them and they told me it was in October but didn't tell me the exact date.
Thanks beforehand

[hughesyd]

you doing the spanish or english course??. i started with them in october last year.

[ROI1900D]

I asked for the english one but she told they haven't got one.
Either will be fine
Thanks for the info hughesyd.

[david fraser]

I found this in a Spanish web. Here you can found the opinion of spanish people about Aerofan, which might know more than you about that school.
http://www.pilotosdeiberia.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=1563
They really have bad planes, and as I said there`s other schools, like Aerotec, Aeromadrid... Don`t play with your life. Just go and ask the tower about official incidences of this school, not rumours. Ask qualified people. They are going to tell you just what I said.

[Me-Uk]

Mr.Fraser, you might like to translate what the post says???!!! It's just a wee bit difficult to understand it in Spanish.

They chap is off his rockers!!

[hughesyd]

This guy is as mad as a wasp!!

When is he going to realise that he is just making himself look stupid. I think boys and girls you are clearly lookingt at a guy who was one of the few who actually failed at Aerofan, so rather than taking responsibility of his own failings and building on them, he tries to bad mouth the flight school and blame them for his poor flying skills and personal failings. Its a sad fact that i see this so many times here in Spain. There are so many that i see here that cant be bothered to study, mess about all year while mummy and daddy are spending a fortune putting them through flight school, and some of the results are shocking. Im not just talking fails but getting 10 and 20 percent in ATPL exams because they just cant be arsed, makes me think why they are here.

This is only a small minority of course, but as soon as they fail, the flight school is to blame, the aircraft are poor, the instructors are poor, the lecturers are bad, usually when you are blaming everything else, its time to look at yourself.

So, my friend maybe you are one of these countless students i see here at Aeromadrid and Aerofan ect.
you certainly seem hell bent on tarnishing their image, but unfortunately everybody else on here has had a positive experience of them, and the link you have sent in Spanish is full of rubbish!!Also stop calling yourself "John Cooper" or "David Fraser" for gods sake, people on here werent born yesterday and its pretty obvious you are Spanish.

If you cant be a man, Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get on with it, then at least stop posting threads on here that are full of crap!!.
Get on with it!!:= := :=

Dammn , i said i wouldnt reply again but this guy is winding me up, sorry to everyone else for ranting on myself!

[jar-dk]

yes he certainly ticks you off...... I would love to know who he is..... a competitor... pissed off student??....
A Mate of mine just did his me-ir at AEROFAN and according to him the planes are ok,while he was there nothing was wrong - do you really need all new diamond star planes? old gauges and different lay out...... who cares they all show almost the same, you might as well get used to things are never where they used to be when you get out in the GA jungle, there nothing is as its supposed to be, everyday something new happens.
Seriously failing in Spain hheheh then you must rethink your piloting future...
My personal experiences with AEROFAN are professinel and very "go-minded" 80% of the times where AEROMADRID cancelled my flights, AEROFAN flew with their students. James the english guy who takes care of things at aerofan showed me more professionalism and courtesy in one day than aeromadrid did in 3 months. Can only recommend them if you are going the spanish way, but then again go see for your self, what is 1 plane ticket when you are about to spend 6 grand on a meir.

[david fraser]

For Me-Uk, here you got a web where you can translate it into English, or whatever language you want http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr. There`s a hundred more webs like this where you can do it! You didn`t know how to translate it, really? Sorry, I thought the level was higher... :ugh:

[hughesyd]

thanks for the link David Fraser, or are you really joaquigonzales!!??. Read all the threads that you so kindly provided to us in spanish, translated them to english , and it seems there is only one dissatisfied customer, his writing style seems very familiar, the rest of the replys on that thread are all happy spanish customers who couldnt praise the school enough!!.

What a plonker!!:eek: :eek:

[david fraser]

Hello guys,
In fact , Aerofan as a maintenance center in the airport, but why nobody says how many time it`s been closed by the airport authorities for severe irregularities?:confused:

[gcolyer]

This is great material guys....my long boring days at work are starting to get brighter...

I think this thread should become a sticky!! :ugh:

[Me-Uk]

Ha Ha!!! This is starting to get..... how should one put it....pathetic? or just simply, fun?

Just for your infomation Mr.Fraser (and for anyone else who's interested), whilst I was in Madrid training, I noticed that Aerofan not only does their own maintenance but also provides maintenance to other FTOs in the area. I quite distinctly remember seeing other planes inside their hangers. I think I saw an Aerotec twin, and also a Flyline Warrior. So, to be honest I have no idea how many times their maintenance facility has been closed down by the airport authorities (is it the airport authorities that close down maintenance centres? I thought it was the local CAAs), but as having had experience working at a UK maintenance JAR-145 centre myself (one can usually tell if a JAR145 is professional or not), and having noticed that there are also other FTOs that trust their aircraft to that particular centre, I very much doubt that they have been closed down. At least not recently. But as I said, I really do not know. I can only report on what I've seen first hand.

So here we have it, once again, our friend Mr.Fraser, the chap with a grudge on his shoulder. Poor thing!!

And I can also say that I was very well looked after by two English chaps whilst I was over there. James, who looks after the training (very professional indeed), and Frank, a friendly chap who deals with housing and hotels. I have trained and flown at several different schools, and to be honest, this is the first FTO that made me feel like a customer.

Have a good day!

[john cooper]

AEROFAN, MADRID, SPAIN
Hello everybody, I`ve been to Spain, and I`ve seen Aerofan school and I don`t recommend this school to anybody. You just go and see their airplanes: very old and broken, nothing works inside, and they say they have native instructors, but this is a lie. You can see it by yourself. And there is an express order given to the instructor to talk twenty minutes on gound to waste the flight time, specially on multi-engine. So, do not pay anything before seeing the airplanes. If you go to Madird, go and see the airplanes before, and talk to the spanish pilots, you can always find a bunch of them in the airport area. Don`t believe everything you read, they can put "we are the best", they can put whatever they want. I`ve seen Aeromadrid and Aerotec, and they`ve got new airplanes, one or two years old. Go and have a look first, and believe what you see.

[john cooper]

ASK EVERYBODY IN SPAIN BEFORE PAYING. ASK THE TOWER. ASK PEOPLE IN THE AIRPORT, DON`T PAY WITHOUT INFORMATION.

[pipertommy]

Have you visited Aerodynamics Malaga?I was planning on doing my ME/IR in Spain early next year,feeling uncertain:confused:

[jar-dk]

heheheeh
this thread should be ended because of the amount of bull thats in it.
By the way COOPER your indepth analysis of the age of aeromadrids planes is outright false!!! :eek: But there is only one correct thing: dont pay anybody anything for something you dont know that they can deliver in the manner agreed upon, especially in spain and anywhere else!

[david fraser]

pipertommy: as far as I`m concern, Aerodynamics Malaga is fine, never heard anything bad about them, and the weather`s better there.

jar-dk: It`s my duty to inform everybody of what I know about Aerofan, even if you don`t like it. The airplanes ARE in bad conditions.

PEOPLE, INFORM YOURSELVES BEFORE PAYING ANYTHING!!!!

[pipertommy]

Thanks David:ok:

[jar-dk]

David: u do what you have to do to b able to sleep at night! Not that I like it or do not like it - maybe if you were serious you should send a mail to the spanish caa and CC it to both the uk caa and JAA. all the airschools I have ben at there have always been minor problems with planes (even engine failures), yes this might come as a shock to some ... even on spanish planes, and price and quality are usually linked together, but the funny thing is that in our business its always the case when there is a bargain and strangely only sometimes when there is a high price on training or rental. Money makes this business go round.
And when you complain.... you almost never feel like a customer - the level of service at sainsburys is higher and politer when there is a cock up. Maybe im making a to general statement but im sure peope who have had prolems will agree. One should make a school called "wedont****studentsover.com"
So many serious allegations made on this site, but never with any serious evidence material.Maybe thats why its called rumour network!

[Me-Uk]

David Fraser...John Cooper....someone mentioned earlier on that they were the same person. It looks like this is the case!!

Copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste..... it's pathetic.

Come on Scroggs, can't you just rub all this off. This chap is just a joke.

I don't know whether the guys at Aerofan in Madrid get to read this or not, but it's really quite insulting. I personally would be furious, taking into account that this chap talks rubbish.

[DC-8]

I`ve seen Aeromadrid and Aerotec, and they`ve got new airplanes, one or two years old. Go and have a look first, and believe what you see.

2 year old aircraft in Aeromadrid? Are you sure you were there?

[john cooper]

DC-8: I`m sorry, you are right: Aeromadrid doesn`t have 2-years-old planes, although their planes are well maintained. It`s Aerea who has 2-years-old planes. Thanks for the correction.

[OnRoute]

What are you expected to bring along with you to Aerofan? Do they provide you with maps and headsets or should one have those by himself?

-OnRoute-

[hixton]

Anybody know if Aerofan are still operating?
No answer from any of the phone lines or email.

[Hour Builder]

yes they are still operating

[hughesyd]

the officed isnt open on sat/sun, only the operations office is open and no calls are taken there at weekends. also if you call in the week, the office is shut from 2-4 siesta, but open untill 8 at night.

[sam34]

hello everybody!

have you ever flown at Aerofan for hours building ? any feedback would be appreciated.
the prices are low but in fact I am interested because I want to improve my english (by the radio) and I would like to know if spanish controlers speak english well and instructors too. i am french and spain is not far from France (i live in the south of france...) so it is cheaper than going to USA.
we can flight in english in France, but it is not the same thing...and the accent is easier to understand.

[DC-8]

If you just want to build hours there's a cheaper Aeroclub also in LECU where you can rent a PA28-150 and a PA28-180 for 80€ and 100€ plus VAT respectively.

I would like to know if spanish controlers speak english well and instructors too.

Yes, no problem with ATC nor the instructors, they all speak English.

When are you planning to come?

[sam34]

If you just want to build hours there's a cheaper Aeroclub also in LECU where you can rent a PA28-150 and a PA28-180 for 80€ and 100€ plus VAT respectively.



Yes, no problem with ATC nor the instructors, they all speak English.

When are you planning to come?

thank's!
But soory i don't understand, i have searcht LECU i did not find anything, what is ?

I think to come next year :february/march. Before I am going to work a few months.

[sam34]

ha ok I think I have found! is it OACI code, isn't it ?
lecu = madrid cuatro vientos ?

[DC-8]

ha ok I think I have found! is it OACI code, isn't it ?
lecu = madrid cuatro vientos ?

Yes. You're right. LECU is the airport. All flight schools in Madrid operate there.
I forgot to write the Aeroclub's name. It's called "Club de Vuelo TAS". This is the web: www.clubdevuelotas.com (http://www.clubdevuelotas.com)

[ICING AOA]

Well, at Paris, it is even cheaper to fly than in Spain ! 92 Euro per hours (VAT included !) of flight http://ac.aiglons.free.fr/home.php !

[sam34]

ok! thanks a lot! :)

[metar]

I've posted previously, but just thought you would like to know that I did my ME/IR and FI at Aerofan (and renewal) within the last 18 months. The school is professional and they are making a big effort to keep the Brits happy during their stay.

The aircraft ARE quite old, worked hard, but are all maintained to the standards you would hope and whenever there has been a problem they have been fixed quickly. The 310 is no better or worse that most Senecas that you see kicking about in the UK. A 172 is a 172 the world over (for the most part) and had pretty good instrumentation. I thoroughly enjoyed the Bonanza.

What I would say is that you will get out of Aerofan as much as you put in. The standard of instruction is good but with more emphasis on the practical side of flying compared with the UK. Less theory all in all. The examiners ARE easier going and you have a higher chance of passing there. It's a fact.

I'm now a CFI, regularly fly the airways and have two interviews with major airlines coming up. Got through the MCC too, so pretty confident the instruction did work.

That's not to say I don't have work to do, but Aerofan did get my ME/IR done in 3 weeks which was hard work but fun. FI quick too but that's a rating that you learn most of it on the job. My time in Madrid was hilarious - mainly because of my lack of Spanish when ordering things off Spanish menus at night, but even went out with the instructors a few nights. Still in touch with all them...

PM for any other info.

[sam34]

do the spanish students from aerofan, airmed, aeromadrid etc, speak english or spanish to the ATC ?? Most of time he ATC is in english or spanish ? I have not flown in an other country...but I suppose the ATC is in the language of country maybe? (i will not understand spanish anyway) :}

[DC-8]

do the spanish students from aerofan, airmed, aeromadrid etc, speak english or spanish to the ATC ?? Most of time he ATC is in english or spanish ?

ATC phraseology is generally in Spanish, however if somebody speaks in English we all speak in English for situational awareness.

[crap pilot]

Does anybody know how soon you can start the ME-IR at aerofan. Is there a wait(how busy are they) or can you start as soon as you like?

[ICING AOA]

do the spanish students from aerofan, airmed, aeromadrid etc, speak english or spanish to the ATC ?? Most of time he ATC is in english or spanish ? I have not flown in an other country...but I suppose the ATC is in the language of country maybe? (i will not understand spanish anyway) :}


At Airmed, some years ago it was full of european studients coming from all over europe! Holland, UK, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, etc... as well as many spanish studients obviously!
Studients from "english" promotions had everything fully in english and the ATC was performed in english all over spain, balearic islands and south of France !
Anyway, after a couple of months there everybody was almost fluent in spanish :ok: (apart from english guys who could only say "hello" in spanish after 24 months :} ).
Airmed was a WONDERFUL european school some years ago, believe it or not :(

[apruneuk]

Just to add my twopenceworth. I did the full JAA MEIR course at Aerofan earlier this year and passed no problem - less than 3 weeks in total. More to the point, they tailored the course to suit me. I wanted to do more twin time than the standard course offered so did 25 hours in a 172 and 25 in a C310 (grown-up twin). Total cost including flights from UK and accommodation in the centre of Madrid, food and drink came to +/- £9k.

I had two instructors, one for the 172 and one for the twin. One was Argentinian and one, the CFI, was Spanish. Both spoke excellent English and knew their stuff (the CFI had several thousand hours commercial operations on light twins and was also rated on the 767). The boss, James Ward, is English and is also a FI although i get the feeling he is mostly office-bound these days. I was against the clock due to work commitments at home and Aerofan bent over backwards to get me through on time.

As for the aircraft, they were as good as any I have flown at any other flight school (and I have flown with US and UK schools in my time). The engineers were ex-military, the workshop appeared well-equipped and the planes appeared well maintained. What more can I say? Aerofan - professional and top value in my experience.

[sam34]

i would like just warm you, because some french guys who did an IR at Aerofan had to pass an exam with a FE (IR) when they came back in France...
Ok IR is a rating and we can do it in another JAR country but IR in spain would be a low level than in France...it is not my word...I say what happened...
So maybe french IR = spain IR. But here we do IR in 12 weeks!! so what's wrong ?? 3 weeks in spain :confused: :eek:
one guy who did his IR at aerofan said me that spain IR is like US IR, more easier, without calcul matematics etc...not like in France. and in US you do IR in 3-4 weeks too.
I do not know how is the level in UK, but I think it is like in France. I think you do IR in 12 weeks like us, don't you?
so how do they do in spain ??
Do not tell me that it is because the weather is great because in the south of France, the weather is superbe too and the IR course takes 12 weeks...:)

[BlueRobin]

You know, I think there should be a ban on passing on third-hand opinion :E

[apruneuk]

Sam, 55 hours in 12 weeks? That's less than an hour a day on a 5 day week! Sounds like your mates are being taken for a ride.

[sam34]

I know...but it was just a question...because I though that students had to think about the fly, time to assimilate what they learned etc...
but i said opionions from other guys who did IR in spain and Ir in France (just an another test or some extra hour because french CAA does not like spanish IR), they could compared.
When I looked at documentation of stapleford "it is written IR between 8 and 12 weeks". I noticed it is a very big difference with spain. However Stapleford is a good school, high level but so if I understand they are slow like most other FTO in UK or France. (i don't know the during of IR course in other country..).
But i think Aerofan is a good school because lot of student are satisfied. It is more important finally.

[apruneuk]

Sam, a JAA 55 hour is a JAA 55 hour course wherever you do it. All schools are regularly inspected by the authorities (Aerofan were having their annual inspection while I was there). I admit that doing it in 3 weeks is tough but I already had an ICAO IR which I use in anger on a regular basis so for me it was no big deal.
That having been said, I met several students who were doing the IR from scratch and 3-4 weeks seemed about average. As I said before, the instruction was first rate, the whole course was done on aircraft, Madrid was fantastic fun and I completed on time and on budget. I can't say more than that really - it seems there are plenty of people on this forum who have had first hand experience of Aerofan and would agree with me. By the way, I didn't need to study mathematics as I did the ATPL writtens before I went.

[menikos]

Hello,

sam34 don't worry as a French I can tell that the french are very pretentious when it comes to the aviation we are the best pilots of the world (joke) and the DGAC doesn't play the JAA game it's just to protect the business.

It always the same thing plenty of planes coming from all over the world and as far as I know they don't get lost : ))) so an IR is an IR it's just the method or the way they focus on the subject who differs, for example in UK they do like NDB approach it's not the case in the US for example or maybe in Spain maybe also because of the facilities.

Me personally I will take the cheapest way and aerofan is cheapest for me than the UK even if I'm in the case of a conversion from a FAA licence, oh my god he has an american licence you know the licence we give you for free :)

Take care.

[crap pilot]

I will be going to Aerofan on November 15th to complete the ME-IR. Is there anybody else going to be there at this time?

[An Artificial Member]

Crap pilot

I'm off to Madrid this Sunday to do my IR at Aerofan, :ok:

AM

[crap pilot]

Will probably just miss you but good luck anyway:ok:

[An Artificial Member]

Thanks

But we may still bump into each other, as I will be there for a few weeks.

AM

[IO520M]

Text removed by IO520M.

[apruneuk]

IO520M

I did my initial IR on a 310R with Aerofan. It was in pretty good condition with all the necessary bits and pieces. It had HSI and RMI and digital avionics (can't remember which make).
The exam route for your renewal will likely be chosen the night before and will probably involve DME arcs to VOR/DME approaches based on one of the local VORs rather than an ILS into Madrid or similar. They were extremely efficient and good value when I went there - quite a breath of fresh air compared to the UK. I stayed in a "Hostal" in the centre of Madrid which was arranged by the school - about an hour by tube and bus from the airport and surrounded by great bars and restaurants.
If I were you I would give James a ring and have a chat - maybe search for other threads on the school - I know there have been a few.

A

[PPL152]

You might want to try the following threads.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215585

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214385 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214385)

The search function is a lovely tool:ok:

[balboa]

Does anyone have any experience of this school and what did you think?

[PlaneHomerS]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259116&highlight=aerofan

{if you understand spanish!}

maybe:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230884&highlight=aerofan

or

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215585

:ok:

[Walk the line]

There is very little English Language debate about Aerofan FTO, Madrid in recent times - YES-I have read all the previous reviews about the school, But recently they have dried up.

Im quite nervous, Im doing my Multi-IR out there in two weeks time and Im a little nervous to say the least. Quite frankly I'm looking to hear the experiences of RECENT people who have completed the course. At the moment Ive onnly paid the deposit but will be paying another 13k so any help guys?

I just want genuien recent experiences guys - still running well? Aircraft? Instructors? etc From what I have read : cheap, cheerful, does what it says on the tin??? Still the case?

Thanks in advance!

WTL

[An Artificial Member]

Check you PMs

[simpdy]

I read in a forum in Spain that Aerofan had an inspection from DGAC (Spanish CAA) and will have an inspection from the British CAA this summer. This is the first time in history that CAA makes an inspection outside UK. Must be something big.

Somebody knows something???

[ItsAjob]

Could be something to do with the amount of money they loose by not being able to charge the rip off 700 quid for the IR test; then still having to process all the paperwork!

[redout]

Walk The Line

Although I am not an Aerofan student I do attend another school at Cuatro Vientos and know several people attending there at the moment. From what I hear and see u have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. I see there aircraft in action most days and everything looks fine. School usually has a few Irish and Brits at all times. I had a friend finish up his IR there in January and no problems reported. They also fly quite frequently unlike other schools at the airport which is obviously good news for you. Hope this helps ease your concerns.

Redout

[Walk the line]

Thanks to all for your private messages and public ones!

It's really very helpful-I will keep you all posted and write up a trip report when I get back-hopefully all goes well! One thing is a non-variable certainty-I will come back minus 13K!

WTL

[boogie-nicey]

Folks is there an easy way to get to Aerofan from Barajas airport or am I relugated to the expensive taxi ....? Very quick trip so time is of the essence :ok:

[blobber]

I can't get in touch by telephone, anyone know how come?

[ClintonBaptiste]

It's easy to get to cuatro vientos from barajas. Get the Metro from Barajas ( Buy a 10 trip ticket, it'll save you money) and make your way to Aluche. DO NOT get off at the cuatro vientos stop as I did, otherwise you face a long walk. From Aluche there is a bus which passes the airport, (you need to press the stop button when you see the huge Nissan factory). If you pm me I'll have a look through my paperwork to see which bus number it is.

I completed my IR there last year and had a great time, really friendly instructors and reliable aircraft. Unfortunately I've not yet got a flying job, so I'll be off back to renew my licence in the next month or so. If you get the chance to fly over Toledo, DO IT! It's such a wonderful sight. Also I can recommend flying to Casarubios for a coffee, you'll be able to watch sukhois and extras doing aeros!

Good Luck!:)

[boogie-nicey]

ClintonBapiste: Many thanks for that valuable information. I shall bear it in mind.

For the rest of you ....
I went to Aerofan yesterday on a quick day trip (tiring). Upon arrival at Barajas I lazily got the taxi and got dropped off right outside Aerofan's orange coloured office. It is indeed small and cosy but at the same time modern, organised and clean. Though I had turned up on the wrong day to that proposed originally I was nevertheless taken care of by the staff who did appear somewhat busy but still tried to help arrange someone to attend to my visit. Apparently the chap for the UK students James Ward was out flying and so they organised someone else to come over and show me around. The person who showed me around was the most genuine and nicest girl I have met in a very,very long time (not just the salesman aspect) but someone who seemed to reflect the helpfulness of Aerofan themselves. I was shown around the various briefing and study rooms along with their flight planning suite which at first sight appeared to have nice automated mass and balance programs running on a number of PCs lined up against one side of the room and further supplemented with impressive weather data METAR, TAFS, etc. The airport itself seemed to be relatively quiet but on the whole well equipped with a variety of aircraft parked around from the other schools (aeroMadrid and AirTec ... I think, not sure) and a couple of them taxying around the apron. Aerofan's aircraft appeared nicely kept and maintained, I would personally put them in the good category and coupled with their own maintenance facility it all seemed satisfactory. Upon departure I hesitantly asked whether I could get them to phone a taxi to take me back to Barajas and they were once again very happy to help. In all my time I have been flying I doubt if I've been to an airport where the people have been so genuinely helpful, POLITE, honest and professional.

Whilst waiting around for the taxi I met another UK student who amazingly lived just round the corner from me and had just completed his FAA IR conversion as I was hoping to do. He informed me how the course had gone so far and that he was soon to do his IR test, all positive comments and frequent mention of flexibility. This was a point which I observed right in front of eyes as I saw numerous students pass through the office all of whom seemed quite content and happy with what was going on. I even overheard a conversation regarding aircraft availability and giving the student the aircraft he prefered rather than what the school wished ot allocate to him without any fuss.

Certainly the factor being overlooked here is more than just simple training it's also one of regional bias. In the UK it seems you have to be grateful that the school has chosen to take your money and teach you, whereas at Cuatro Vientos airport (where Aerofan are based) there seems to be a mutual respect that we're all involved in flight training regardless of where you are on the aviation ladder. Just the other the week I visited a few UK schools and I doubt they would compare with the excellent Aerofan in any aspect of their operation. Aerofan is also excellent value for money.

In case you're wondering no I don't work for Aerofan but I feel compelled to report what I have seen and I can assure you I am not someone who is easily impressed nor fooled.

[blobber]

Nice report boogie nicely. Are you doing an MEIR conversion from FAA to JAA?. I am planning on doing the same in one months time and am thinking about Aerofan. There price seems good. Am I right in saying that 5700euros covers everything apart from accommodation?
What about the normal amount of hours to get through and first time pass rates? I have the question in another post but would a uk airline look down their nose at a non uk meir?
Also the 310 looks a bit weird in the cockpit layout, no what i mean?

Cheers

[SD.]

Be careful if you don't hold a JAA MEP. It'll cost you another €888 to do the MEP there aswell on top of the €5700. Other than that, no other problems so far.:ok:

[boogie-nicey]

Blobber: I only know of one person who's employed as a pilot from Aerofan. However I have relatives in the industry already and their personal view is get the licences and ratings and stop worrying about where you trained just get it done. Sure there are always some who will look down their noses but a couple of years ago there were people who used to claim the FAA route was rubbish yet numerous people trained in through that system are happily working here in the UK.

Save the money at Aerofan and just do a Jet Orientation course instead with a UK provider. Surely that will level things out for those 'Little Britain' chief pilots.

Also my name is Boogie-Nicey NOT Boogie-Nicely :ok:

[geordiejet]

Hey, I am booked to go to Aerofan in July for my IR / FIC. Could anyone tell me which airports you practice approaches on for the IR? I assume you don't go in to Barajas?? Just I want to learn the procedures before I get there - and my JAR Student Manual does have Madrid in - but the charts are years out of date.

Kind Regards,

Alex.

[601 lox]

Hi I have recently returned from Aerofan, and although I wasnt doing the IR I do know that the mostly used airfields are Toledo/Salamanca/and Valladolid there may be others but these are generally the most used.
Also I found that in my experience that the instructors and staff do go out of their way to help, but be prepared for flight cancellations due to wind/weather, you may not complete in the time you plan.:ok:

[Blueskyrich]

Hey all,

I'm a UK student who has recently passed the last of the 14 ATPL exams and am now building my hours to start my ME/CPL.

I have planned to do the ME/CPL, IR and MCC at Atlantic Flight Training in Coventry, but have just started to look at non-UK options to make sure I'm doing things right.

Aerofan appear attractive in terms of price, but could someone please provide me with a frank and honest evaluation of the pros and cons of completing the above courses with Aerofan?

It appears that I would save money (which is always a good thing!), but would this be at the expense of extra hassle in the future with the CAA or with future employers? Would my licence be fully accepted in the same way than somebody with the same ratings completed here? Is the standard of training the same.

Money should never, ever be the sole reason to choose or ignore a school, but if there are good enough reasons in terms of the product and training offered, then they must be considered.

I look forward to any replies! If, for whatever reason, you would sooner send a PM, please just shout!

Many thanks,

Blueskyrich

[BlueRobin]

You'll have to do you CPL here in Blighty or at a UK-approved school offering CPL Modular i.e. two or three in the US.

Have you looked, like me, elsewhere in the UK besides AFT?

[Blueskyrich]

Hi there,

Thanks for the quick response!

Yep, I've had a look around and to be honest, if I was to do things in the UK, Atlantic work out best for me. I did my theory through them and some of my previous flying. I know what they're all about and they're local-ish for me.

I think I'll contact Aerofan and see what the position is. It appears that they are advertising for British pilots to go over there, but I'm not sure what I'd actually end up with!

Thanks again,
Bluesky

[BlueRobin]

Me also, but having done the ATPL theory here in the UK, you cannot realistically go over to Aerofan to do your CPL. The JARs seem to prevent this. However IR is okay. But then you have that argument about training at one or two places.

Take a look at
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=271174

I'm off to HGFC at the Green, have you been there?

[Smedemark]

Im going down to Aerofan the 3. of june.
I'm doing the 4 week ME-IR course, and I just wanted to know if it really is possible to do in that short a time?

[OnRoute]

I'm doing the 4 week ME-IR course, and I just wanted to know if it really is possible to do in that short a time?

I'd say that if the planes are working and weather mostly co-operates, that may be doable.

-OnRoute-

[S5-Vinc]

Can anyone else confirm problems with AeroFan and especially what is the quality of ATPL lectures?
Do they do it proffessional way (ATPL) and help you if you don't understand something?

Thinking about going to Spain for ATPL but haven't decided yet where to go.
Madrid - Aerofan seems nice (until this thread) choice,also price seems OK.

Any advice? Should I go for ATPL with any other FTO, maybe AeroMadrid?


Is here anyone else who intend to take an ATPL course with some Spanish FTO?

Thank you,
Vince

[Epic_mg]

Hey all, Im considering enrolling onto Aerofans FI course sometime this summer, if anyone has any feed back about Aerofan and or the FI course please can you post a reply or PM me.
Many Thanks

[stio]

I haven't found much information on this course although it was advertised last year - anyone know if it is still running? As I understand it, the training is devised for PPL holders and includes ATPL groundschool, hour building, CPL and ME-IR with licences and ratings issued by the Spanish CAA.
I'll phone the school directly when they are open tomorrow but if anyone has any info i'd appreciate it, thanks

[peterinmadrid]

I did the PPL and now I am doing the ATPL here at Aerofan. The instructors are very experienced, mostly military pilots and two that work for Iberia. It´s 4 hours a day on weekdays. The problems here in Spain are mainly due to beaureaucracy: it takes ages to get anything issued from the Spanish CAA.

[hughesyd]

you doing your ATPLs in english at Aerofan??. i have just finnished my ATPLs in madrid with Aeromadrid. initially went to Aerofan but they let me down badly as they told me at the last minute that they werent doing the ATPLs in english, that was after 3 weeks after i should have started the course and had moved to Madrid!!, with them telling me " it starts next week, it starts next week"!!. Was supposed to be on the first officer jet course but in reality at the time it didnt exist. Hope they have got there act together now and sorted this out as i see they are still advertising the course. This was 2 years ago and i have flown with them since hour building, all the instructors are good and the set up is very profesional. Overal my experience (and i wasnt the only one), go if you need you IR/ME as its perfect but be wary of them offering groundschool courses in english unless you hear from someone who has actually been there and done it, as i say it may be different now, im back in Madrid in a few weeks at Quatro Vientos, so i will ask the question.

[hughesyd]

I know for a fact that they dont do the PPL in english!!

[stio]

i spoke with aerofan directly and they confirmed that they are not providing atpl groundschool in English at the moment. The rep referred to not wanting to give me an impression that I could start at any particular time as the school understandably would need a certain number of students interested in the course to make it viable. Anyone interested should maybe let the school know.
How was the course with aeromadrid hughesyd? in english i presume?

[peterinmadrid]

I am doing the course in Spanish. I know that do sometimes give courses in English but I don't know when the next one will start (I will ask at the office and post back). I guess they would have to be sure of having enough students to make it worthwhile. Most of our teachers also give classes in English at the other schools. I think whatever school you choose it is likely that you will have the same teachers. Aero Madrid is the biggest school at Cuatro Vientos but they are quite a bit more expensive than Aerofan (about 3000€ for the ATPL as opposed to 2100€ at Aerofan). If you need to do the ATPL in English perhaps it is worth looking at them as you can still do the IR/ME/CPL at Aerofan. I think the flight instructors all speak English.

Regarding the Aerofan Jet First Officer, I haven't heard anything about this as I am taking the modular route. However, you could do the ATPL in English at Aero Madrid and then the CPL/IR/ME at Aerofan. You would have to be prepared to come and live here for at least a year to pass all the exams, because they are every 3-4 months and nobody passes them all the first time. Another thing worth mentioning is that the web page in English is different to the one in Spanish (which I think is a lot more up to date). It is worth looking at for the prices and what's on offer at the moment with the help of a dictionary.

[BlueRobin]

Here's a rumour. Which authority is interested in Aerofan's present IR training and examination standards? :}

[RVR800]

Does it matter?

Spit it out ......

:rolleyes:

[hughesyd]

Enlighten us Blue robin!?, this rumour seems to pop up about every 3 months about Aerofan but nothing ever materialises, up to now its all been untrue.

Plenty of friends of mine have succesfully completed the multi engine IR and gone on to fly with airlines, proof that they cant be all that bad.


As for James Ward at Aerofan( english speaking rep) im glad he is being upfront about the ATPL course in english, its true that they only run it if there is enough interest. I do truly like the school, good guys, professional training and very helpful, but a experience like i had with them initially when they let me down on the groundschool course can spoil your impression of a flightschool.

I ended up at Aeromadrid on their groundschool course. A very good professional flight school with very good lecturers, all serving military and airline pilots. Now heres the problem if you are a Modular student, they put you in a groundschool class with intergrated students. The intergrated course is typically around 18months to 2 years. the lectures are spread over around the 18 month period, and then in spain, the exams are only every 3 months. So, lets say you sit in 1 year of lectures then take half your exams then the other half 3 months later, even presuming you pass them all, its taken you 18 months just to get the exams done, slightly more than the advertized 6 months by Aerofan!!. Believe me , i cant tell you how frustrating it is!. My Advice, if you are modular, do your ATPLs and CPL in the UK then by all means do your Multi /IR at Aerofan , otherwise your in for the long haul!.. If your a Intergrated student, Aeromadrid is a good choice but expensive!

[sam34]

Hello everyone!

I would like your advices.

I'm french and I would like to fly in english during my hours building.
I'm thinking about Aerofan to fly around 20 hours.
I guess I will have to fly with an FI at first 2 or 3 hours. Are they really native english ?? or not ? or do they speak english well ?

thank you!

[OnRoute]

Are they really native english ?? or not ? or do they speak english well ?

At least most of them are Spanish but the ones instructing international students speak quite good English. Some of the students have, however, said that they have had problems to understand the English of some teachers.

[boogie-nicey]

Just like pilots who further down in their careers will struggle a wee bit to understand the accents of foreign controllers. It's nothing more than a hurdle to overcome.

[sam34]

thansk a lot!

Do you know any accomodation near the airport "cautro vientos " very cheap ?

in fact maybe I will fly at the flying club (LECU) at the airport. So I won't use the Aerofan's accomodations...

Thank you for your help.

[OnRoute]

Do you know any accomodation near the airport "cautro vientos " very cheap ?

Availability of accommodation within walking distance of the airport is quite non-existent but there are good bus connections to the airport at least from Aluche. You could look for accommodation at www.loquo.com

-OnRoute-

[G-HALE]

Aerofan say on there website that the JAA MEIR course costs €9,932!
Is there any hidden costs beside accomadtion. Does anyone know or fill me in because this price seems to good to be true people!!!!

[OnRoute]

Aerofan say on there website that the JAA MEIR course costs €9,932!
Is there any hidden costs beside accomadtion. Does anyone know or fill me in because this price seems to good to be true people!!!!

You have probably checked their Spanish website and I think that this price excludes the skill test. Otherwise I think that everything should be included.

-OnRoute-