75 miles off course in 100 mile trip...

[ORAC]

The Herald - Friday 10th:

THE crew of a light aircraft was last night forced to make an emergency landing on a beach after going 75 miles off course during a 100-mile journey. The two-seater Cessna 150 set off from Cumbernauld airport, near Glasgow, to fly to Carlisle, in north-west England. But the pilot lost his way and ended up landing at Goswick Sands, just north of Holy Island, off north-east England.

The landing was made possible after an RAF Sea King helicopter was scrambled to locate and help escort the light aircraft to safety. The two Scottish men on board, believed to be in their early 40s but who have not been identified, escaped injury. They were picked up by the helicopter, which landed beside them, and flown on to RAF Boulmer in Northumberland. A friend picked them up last night and they continued their journey to Carlisle by train.

Michael Mulford, of the RAF Rescue Centre at Kinloss, in Moray, explained how the drama unfolded after the plane left Cumbernauld at about 4.30pm. He said: "The pilot got lost near Carlisle and appeared to be tracking along the River Tweed toward the east coast. We launched a Sea King after the National Air Traffic Service at Prestwick alerted us that the plane was encountering difficulties. "Our guys flew north towards Kelso . . . we found him near Berwick and, after establishing that he was short of fuel, led him south towards Eshott airfield at Morpeth. "On the way, the guy said he did not have enough fuel to reach Eshott so he landed at Goswick Sands, a big tidal stretch of beach, just north of Holy Island, just before 6.30pm."
Visibility at the time of the rescue was quite poor, with showers and the light failing. Mr Mulford went on: "The two men have got themselves into trouble but have managed successfully to get out of it with a lot of help from others."

Squadron Leader Andy Shenton, who captained the rescue helicopter, said: "The men were very lucky. The tide was coming in, but they still had enough sand to land on but absolutely no fuel left. They are very shaken but otherwise unhurt."

Coastguard officials and locals last night managed to tow the plane on to dry land. It may be flown from the beach today following safety checks and refuelling.

[stiknruda]

Very pleased that there were no casualties, but am I the only one who thinks that the whole thing sounds very "amatuer"?

At least the SeaKing winch crew didn't need to get wet!!

Stik

[J.A.F.O.]

am I the only one who thinks that the whole thing sounds very "amatuer"?

Stik

While I don't like to judge others without knowing all the details - remember never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins, then it won't matter 'cos you'll be a mile away and you'll have his mocassins - I must say that being uncertain of your location by that much does seem a bit odd and, if they'd only been airborne two hours, having a fuel emergency as well is a bit much.

I'd like to know all the details, though.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Takeoff time was 15.30 not 16.30 and it was really making the best of a bad situation. They are both ok if a little embarrased, but as the Wing Co. said, they were both remarkably calm in what had the potential to be a really, really bad day.

They weren't lost, but running from the bad wx and high ground. So the story is a bit mis-leading.

A pain in the a*se however.....

[J.A.F.O.]

See, just 100 yards in their moccasins and the story is slightly different; three hours dodging cumulonimbus and cumulogranitus. :uhoh:

[Fuji Abound]

I wonder if the press ever get their facts right :bored:

[skip.rat]

Heard what I reckon was this incident yesterday whilst monitoring 121.5 (a normal procedure using our second radio) over N/E France. It certainly sounded to me as though the a/c was lost. London Info. on 121.5 was with great effort trying to help said a/c identify his position;- "if you are over ***** you should be able to see ****" etc. etc. After a short time all messages were being relayed through a BA Shuttle at high level overhead; and were eventually passed to another Shuttle when the first appeared to go out of range.This scenario was heard by us for about 45 mins, and it appeared that to remain clear of cloud the a/c had to descend to 700' and seemed to be trying to identify his position as best he could. Not sure of the terrain up there, but this may account for London Info. not being able to get a fix via D/F. The only Txmissions that we heard were the London Info., the Relay a/c, Latterly the rescue Helicopter, and a few broken Txmissions (maybe from the a/c). The rescue helicopter was attempting to get a D/F fix from the a/c when we had to stop monitoring; so I'm glad to see that all landed safely - Well Done to London Info.,the Ba shuttles, and the rescue helicopter.
Don't know the full details; -we'll have to wait for the report; suffice to say that hopefully those involved will be able to "learn about flying from that" (as the phrase goes)

[Say again s l o w l y]

The terrain in the original area is quite high, which accounts for the difficulty in getting a DF fix. It doesn't help when there isn't a transponder fitted either.

A big thanks from the two chap's to all involved of whom there are many, but especially the crew from Boulmer. It seems to have been a deteriorating situation that due to calm heads on all sides ended in a positive result. It could have been very different.....

They decided to go onto 121.5 very quickly and instead of trying to brazen it out, they got as much help as possible. Whether you should allow yourself to get into that situation is another matter and not one that is particularily helpful since it has already occured. It will be subject to much discussion in the club house, but from my view once they found themselves in trouble, they did exactly the right thing. I'm just glad everyone is in one piece.

[OpenCirrus619]

Sounds like a "There but for the grace of God go most of us" sort of event.

I'm sure that at some time (possibly a long time ago) we've been "up there wishing we were down here" - add a little bit of cumulogranitus and it all gets quite unpleasant.

From what I've read here I think (apart from a possible bit of over-optimism with the weather) everyone should get a pat on the back - especially the guys concerned for the early call on 121.

OC619

P.S. If the "over-optimism with the weather" comment is out of order then I apologise now.

[Say again s l o w l y]

No apology needed. The simple fact is that the weather closed in fast and they got caught out. The key in these situations is to not get in it from the start, but as we all know, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Maude Charlee]

Unfortunate in that it all went Pete Tong in a part of the country that isn't exactly wall to wall with airfields of any description. Having tooled around there for 3 years in a C150 doing aerial work, I know it well. Surprised though that they ran out of fuel so quickly on a flight from Cumbernauld, even with the unintentional diversion. The C150 will do a 3.5 hr flight quite happily 2 up on full tanks.

One of the pilots interviewed on the local news praising the flying school involved for the high standard of their training. Couldn't tell if there was a hint of sarcasm in there or not. :hmm:

[Say again s l o w l y]

I do hope not!! Since it was me who re-trained him!
Actually, the 150 they were in has long range tanks, but they had as much fuel as they could take without being over weight.

[P1 Forever]

Hello,

This may sound like a silly question but did these two chaps have an IMC rating?

P1.

[Say again s l o w l y]

One had a rating that had lapsed many years before and the other did not.

[DFC]

Hello,
This may sound like a silly question but did these two chaps have an IMC rating?
P1.

Think high terrain, low freezing level, unstable airmass, low performance aircraft. Very limited number of instrument aproaches available.

Could have ended up as a block of ice out of fuel which would be unlikely to have the same outcome.

The IMC rating is not the answer to such situations!

The precautionary landing is.

This takes me back to a discussion way back regarding the option to climb into IMC or make a precautionary landing. ;)

Regards,

DFC

[S-Works]

Oh god here we go again, DFC starts his rant against the IMC rating.......:}

[Fuji Abound]

"This takes me back to a discussion way back regarding the option to climb into IMC or make a precautionary landing. "

Does it?

Have you forgotten the thread?

A lapsed IMCR is the same as a lapsed IR - the key word is lapsed! The key word is not IMCR.

Therefore stay clear of cloud - make a precautionary landing if necessary.

That was what the last thread concluded.

Maybe worth reviewing the thread. :ok:

PS A current IMCR and a current IMCR pilot is the answer to this situation no more nor more less than a current IR and current IR pilot. The key word here is current for the avoidance of doubt.

[DFC]

Bose, Fuji,

Read the question as well as the answer. The question did not ask about holding an IR it asked about the IMC rating being of help in the situation.

I did not bash the rating, I simply explained why there was no real posibility of using a climb into IMC as an escape.

Perhaps you think otherwise?

Regards,

DFC

[Fuji Abound]

"Read the question as well as the answer. "

Question

"This may sound like a silly question but did these two chaps have an IMC rating?"

I assume that was the question?

"One had a rating that had lapsed many years before and the other did not."

I guess that was the answer. Seemed pretty straight forward to me.

"The IMC rating is not the answer to such situations!"

I guess that was the answer to another question I missed.


Whether the IMCR was the answer is debatable. However as long as we are agreed an IR was no less nor no more the answer we are all happy :)


So here is the question you would have liked to be asked

Would an IR or an IMCR have been of any help in this situation?

[FlyingForFun]

Absolutely, Fuji - you beat me to it. IMC or IR, there is no difference in this particular case. If the weather at the time was indeed low cloud bases with low freezing levels and high terrain with very few instrument approaches (and I have no idea if it was or not, but that's what DFC says), then it is the limitations of the aircraft which suggest that staying VMC is the best option, regardless of pilot qualifications.

FFF
--------------

[Say again s l o w l y]

In this case a climb into the murk would have probably been the worst thing to do. D&D were adamant that they not lose sight of the surface, since there was very intermittent radio contact due to the terrain and no positive fix could be obtained by D&D.

[BritishPPL]

Does anyone know more about this incident that was reported by the BBC last week - aircraft type & registration, pilots, departure airfield, destination etc ? Where the occupants and aircraft ok after the landing? Did the aircraft fly off the beach when refueled?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4791778.stm

It was an eventful week for GA in the county. There was another forced landing the day before, also in Northumberland. A C182 made a night approach into Eshott airfield - again reported by the BBC and already being discussed on the PPRune thread below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/4789374.stm
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215020

[HiFranc]

That incident had a thread of its own (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215524).

[BritishPPL]

Ok, thanks HiFrank - I didn't pick it up because of that thread's title. I'll leave this one here for now as it is more likely to show up in people's searches

The story was also reported by the local Evening Chronicle newspaper
http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/eveningchronicle/eveningchronicle/news/tm_objectid=16798861%26method=full%26siteid=50081-name_page.html

I guess the BBC didn't have a picture of a C150 available.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Or the facts come to think of it......

A/C is now off the beach and secured down at Eshott, infact she's sitting next to the 182!

I flew it off the road at Lindisfarne after the coastguard closed it and we'd put some more fuel in the machine. It wasn't dry, infact there was still nearly 5 litres a side left in the tanks.

No damage at all, actually all it needed was a good clean.

[wombat13]

I just had a read of the original thread on this incident and don't believe it has developed sufficiently to address what we know / might learn

I see several issues here, culminating in two people walking away from an incident I seriously doubt I could have handled if I had got into it.

This is of course the key issue, not getting into the brown stuff. Rather than focussing on where they ended out, how much fuel was left etc, I see potential poor understanding of wx prior to departure, follwed by a diversion and knowing when to land under power, instead of allowing themselves to continue to a field they might well not have reached.

Two other outcomes could well have been fuel starvation and a forced landing with all the problems that offers - something which would have made "interesting" reading for the public. The second would have been landing at an air-field and the chances are not so many of the public would have learned about the incident.

I don't know any of the people involved, but for me the trick was landing under power when down to such low levels of fuel.

The wombat