ACM Sir Anthony Bagnal parachutes in at EDS

[GengisKhant]

EDS, the American IT services group, has recruited Air Chief Marshal Sir Anthony Bagnall, former vice-chief of the defence staff, to lead a global advisory board on defence contracts.
EDS is one of the British government’s biggest IT contractors. EDS has been harshly criticised for its role in some problematic government IT contracts, notably the Treasury’s tax-credit scheme — a deal it eventually lost — and its contract to provide IT systems and support to the Child Support Agency.
But last year it led the consortium that won a key contract from the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to revamp and upgrade the armed forces’ IT equipment.
The Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) deal is eventually expected to be worth about £4 billion over a number of years.
Bagnall, who left the MoD in July, said that he hoped
EDS would eventually become the “partner of choice” for the MoD and other Whitehall departments.
“If you are going to get the best out of these new systems, you need a long-term trading relationship,” he said.
Bagnall said he had been approached by a number of defence contractors after leaving the MoD, but had decided to join EDS because he had been impressed by the company’s record on an earlier armed forces personnel contract, and its efforts on DII.
He said improved IT could help the British military in a range of areas.
“We are not just talking about back-office systems, but things close to the front line like mission-planning and tactical awareness tools,” he said.
Michael Jordan, EDS’s chairman, said the defence council aimed to exploit the expertise the company had developed in DII and in a similar contract for the US Navy.
The expert advice would also help the company to spot opportunities and trends in military contracting.
“It fills a void for us,” Jordan said. “We have a desperate need for more expertise in global defence issues.”
The council, which will eventually have eight members from around the world, held its first meeting in London last week.

[ORAC]

Ooooh, he said the B word... :eek:

[27mm]

Says it all, doesn't it - American company EDS recruits the man with no name, unknowingly sending their reputation, credibility and share price down the toilet.....

[Training Risky]

Right then, here's a bone question...:O

Is this the chap that people are referring to when they mention 'the Scottish officer' or 'the B word' (or words to that effect?)

It may have been before my time - I've only been in the mob 7 years - but what did he do or not do? Have a love-child?

[Wyler]

'The Scotish Group Captain'. A complete and utter to**er of the highest order.
The mas who wanted to do away with Boarding School Allowance, as soon as his son had finished of course. The considered it a 'Spanish Practice'.
Once stated that Officers did not need their own house, or working wives as there were perfectly good MQ's and the lady at home should be supporting hubby anyway.
Sat in his outer office once talking to his Sgt PA. The man just uttered obsceneties all the time about what he wanted to do to the 'boss'. Said the last bloke had quit due to stress and nerves. I marched in for my farewell chat after a 5 month course and was told to 'get a new hat', then asked to leave.
I am sure there are Ppruners who could use up the whole bandwidth with tales of this monstrosity of a man.
EDS? Avoid it like the plague.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[soddim]

“We are not just talking about back-office systems, but things close to the front line like mission-planning and tactical awareness tools,” he said.


Just what would he know about such topics? Could only be what he has been told because when I knew him he was flying with the scope virgin in the back seat and between them they never found a target!

[Navaleye]

Having worked for "a large American systems integrator" for many years, this is not really surprising. They have pushed the other out of business time and time again. If you out bid your competitors for long enough, you win. That's always been their strategy.

[charliegolf]

Sounds like a match made in heaven. I don't know him, but EDS are the crowd who have made an artform of selling UK PLC successive £500 million+ computer systems (pensions, NI, CSA) which are absolute crap.

CG

[BEagle]

GengisKhant, you've just committed yourself to buying each and every PPRuNer who sees the title of this thread a drink of their choice, as is required by Air Defence tradition:

Anyone mentioning the name of 'The Scottish Officer' in public must buy a drink for all those who hear the name of the B-word spoken.

Such was the esteem in which this person was held!

Sounds as though EDS have scored the same sort of own goal which RR did when they foolishly employed Ba$tard Bill!

[soddim]

Such was the esteem in which this total and utter ar$ehole was held!


BEagle, I think you've inflated his assessments!

[LFittNI]

They are indeed entirely suited to one another.
I once had the dubious priviledge of de-briefing this individual about a Lightning auto-pilot fault he had reported. As my questions continued (it was a complicated snag) he became more and more irate and eventually slammed his flying gloves down on the table, said something to the effect of "I've had enough of these dumb-ass questions, just fix the bl**dy thing" and stormed out. I'm pleased to say the subsequent PS2 entry recorded something on the lines of "Change pilot, the system has better manners".:hmm:
As for EDS--absolute shysters, retained in their lucrative contract positions by....well, most people can guess. :(

[Safeware]

Slightly before my time,as I first came across him as "the Scottish Group Captain", but I believe that as OC 43 and PMC he banned flying suits from the mess!!

True?

Edited to add that as AOC 11 Gp, he also said that morale was a line management problem and nothing to do with him. :(

Him and Nasty Nige, what a pair.

sw

[JessTheDog]

Isn't there a 2 year purdah on such appointments? Mind you, a "special" rule applies for those at the top and I hope that us mortals pay the same credence to any perceived "conflict of interest" when we vote with our feet.

[Mr C Hinecap]

It matters not - EDS have been screwing us and others for years - 'big enough for the job' I've heard - seems to be 'big enough to screw up'.

[SirToppamHat]

ISTR when he was appointed CinC STC. We were all called to the OM for a trumped-up EGM, which of course gave the aforementioned individual the opportunity to address the officers, which he did. Oh how he gushed about this being the only job he'd ever wanted, couldn't wait to get started ... would need all our support ... difficult times ahead ... blah blah blah...

Within a few months he was off to VCDS ... no doubt he got all his staff together ...

[matkat]

One of the most horrible Men I have ever met either in or out of the service.

[Ginseng]

I've just twigged. He must be Southside. Or is he Tourist? Or maybe Admin Guru? Cripes, perhaps he's all of them!

Bet he's not Beagle though.

Regards

Ginseng

[cazatou]

How did he ever get to Air Rank?

Must be the same system that put "Tweety Pie" in command of Male Cadets at RAFC Cranwell!!!!

Nothing personal Brian.

On second thoughts - YES IT IS!!!!

[threepointonefour]

Ooooh, he said the B word... :eek:

... by my count he said it TWICE. Like he's taunting us all ...

[BEagle]

Not the Gp Capt Brian C? Otherwise termed 'Captain Grope Bottom'? Initials BM, which invited everyone in the know to insert a 'U'.

When he was whisked away, the 'system' tried to keep it quiet from mere Flt Lt QFIs. When we found out, we had more contempt for those who tried to keep it pas devant than we did for the bum-fondler.

This was, of course, a few years before Pink Wednesday!

[Pontius Navigator]

Bumped into his ADC at SHAPE (may as well name drop).

We got kidnapped during dinner (no kid) then persuaded to Belgique police to detain us in the road house opposite SHAPE until they had got all our statements.

Politzie cottoned on real quick, made the restaurant owner stay open, serve beers, and forget about the bill. Brill night.

Next morning, arrival at staff car was in wrong sequence with AOC making it before ADC. Gave her a bollocking until she managed to explain she had been held at gunpoint the night before.

His staff car and driver then returned to UK with his duty free in the boot - contrary to MT Orders prohibiting booze in military vehicles.

Hope EDS have someone to open the door for him.

We had an EDS brief last week on how to switch on and log in to their new computer system. Dead easy. Only one thing missing. User names and passwords.

[MostlyHarmless]

In my experience, Herding cats (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4057591681481453187) is about all they're good for. They're welcome to him.

[stillin1]

I am just so very pleased that he has gone.:ok:
The man was a legend in his own tupperware box:yuk:
TW@T:mad:

[spectre150]

Gengis - as you opened this thread can you edit the title? Seeing that man's name in (virtual) print is, to me, as offensive as hearing it spoken. Presumably at his interview (yeah right) he stressed what a great team player he was, that his communication skills were proven (just ask anyone who had worked for him) and his leadership qualities spoke for themselves. Great thread BTW Gengis - you just got to love Pprune for a reality check :)

[The Swinging Monkey]

I can honestly say that in my 32 years in the mob, he was the most obnoxious (sp?) and most horrible man I ever met.

There aree no words to describe his attitude, behaviour and just his general day-to-day being.

The man is all the things people have written above, and I only hope that he goes away to live in the US.

Dreadful, just a bl$$dy dreadful human
Kind regards
TSM

[BEagle]

Human?

I think not!

[Pontius Navigator]

Who said EDS was human? Maybe, like HAL, it will reject a threat to its existence.

How long can EDS and the B-word co-exist.

BEDS?

[Gainesy]

:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

Drinks on Ghengis.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Actually, thinking about it Beags old boy, you are correct.
Sorry about that. What do you think he is thern, maybe anderoid or haemeroid even?
Kind regards
TSM

(I must get caruthers to get me a dicshunery!)

[jindabyne]

Anyone else find all this just a little needless and distasteful? Regardless of the individual concerned.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Jinds old man,
Were you in the RAF?
Have you met this man?
have you had anything to do with him?

If the answer to any of these questions is YES, then you should know where we are all coming from.
If you don't like us having the opportunity to vent our spleens about one of the RAFs most infamous ar$holes, then you need to find another forum. If the answer to any of the questions above is NO, then lucky you!

I for one am quite enjoying it!
Kind regards
TSM

[charliegolf]

Nope. Warning from history and all that.

(Added the extra 'cos my post was too short)

[ORAC]

Regardless of the individual concerned.

Oh, I dunno, in his case I´m willing to make an exception..... :cool:

[jindabyne]

SM

Yes to all, (a glance at my bio would've answered your first question), and of course I know where you're coming from.

And thanks also for your suggestion - I think you'll find myself and smartman have been round quite long enough not to bow to your unecessary remark.

I'm quite happy to join in the usual banter about the odd individual, but not to this degree. Just my personal view.

BTW, I'm told he speaks quite highly of you -----

Regards

[Tigs2]

I have been searching for years to find proof of the theory concerning Parrallel universes. Eureka i have found it! In Jindabynes universe the Scottish Officer is nice and kind, in our unverse we have the evil twin. Off to New Scientist:D :D

[jindabyne]

Thanks for that silly and inaccurate comment Tigs

[27mm]

OK chaps, now we've vented our spleen, let's have some rational explanations as to how such a universally detested officer rose to the rank of ACM....

[The Swinging Monkey]

Jinds,
I did read your profile, but I didn't believe it!
How can you possibly have any views different to those expressed here if you have known this man, thing, moron, whatever??

He was an out-and-out ba$tard, who put himself 1st, last and everything in between. He did more to destroy peoples lives in the RAF, and moral et al than anyone else I know, including politicians!

I know he doesn't speak highly of me, 'cos he doesn't speak highly of anyone, unless they can accelerate his grubby little charge to feather himself and his own little nest.

Time for a lie down and more medication
Kind regards
TSM
ps what has smartman got to do with this??

[GengisKhant]

In posting the original string, I thought of excluding the 'B' word, however, knowing the individual from previous encounters, I was looking to promote responses, and this appears to have worked:ok:

BEagle...., Gainesy and all others who understand the 'Scottish' connection...., drinks are on me. You just need to be at 'Pappa Joes' downtown tonight - 2000hrs CET when I get back from the Well Heads - the local brew registers 7.5 on the Richter scale....!,

PS...., if it is of any consolation, on my current assignment, if I mention EDS in front of any of my US colleagues ..., it would cost me more than a few drinks....!

GengisK.:O

[Training Risky]

27mm may have a valid point in asking how such a person rose through the ranks. There are a few theories one could consider:

The Peter Principle: Bad managers are promoted to the level of their own incompetence, while anyone with skill and ability is kept down to actually do the work required. Genuine Question to those in the nod: Was the B-word a competent pilot? If he was, it is possible that he may have become a PAS Sqn Ldr QFI/QWI? Instead of floating to the top of the pile.

Machiavelli(sp?): Stabbing everyone he could in the back when he was a Flt Lt to get his scraper....fawning to his bosses while a Sqn Ldr....letting the execs run the sqn and claiming the credit as a Wg Cdr....running a Stn from an ivory tower and making morale-destroying, yet also AOC-pleasing, decisions that the execs have to implement........ you get the idea....

Illuminati: Drinking cockerels blood with Bill Clinton and Dubya at Oxbridge while learning funny handshakes.

Any others?

[Snakecharmer]

Never met the guy, but from his reputation in the AD world, I guess Machiavelli (but worse) from the options above.

The one I did meet was Curly Bill... how about a thread on him?!

[ORAC]

I was at LU when the B word was OC 43 and Chris Colville was OC 111. Talk about a contrast....

[maxburner]

I have the grave misfortune of having known the B word since he was a sqn ldr and me a flt lt. In all my years in the RAF, and in industry since, I have never come across someone so universally disliked. Indeed, someone who makes it so difficult to be liked.

Whatever his deep seated problem is, good riddance and good luck to EDS.

Arrogant little sh#t.

[keithl]

Jindabyne, you're out of order. This man is an exception. Anyone who knows me knows I don't do "angry", but the subject of this thread is the one person I've met who deserves everything being thrown at them here - and that's letting him off lightly!
Met him twice, once in Malta on an APC where he refused to thank me for some help I'd given him in the air, despite being bluntly asked to do so by my Detcom; and once in the Hebrides Range, which was active, NOTAM'd, and about to launch a Rapier, when he turned up with blithe unconcern until I used Guard to explain the situation! I enjoyed that..

[Tigs2]

Told you Jinds, parrallel Universes!:D :D

[Roghead]

I'm really upset, I thought I "knew" all the A*******s since the mid 60's. How did this one slip past? Obviously not a mud mover then.
:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

In the early days of the Vickers FunBus, we supported some F4 trial which involved them hoofing off some rocket or other in the Outer Hebrides or some far flung Jockistani outpost. Then landed at Leuchars to refuel and RTB. We popped in to 43's crewroom for a coffee whilst the jet was turned.

The pompous B-word gave us a less than friendly welcome, then tried to tell the captain that he'd conducted the AAR incorrectly. Fortunately we had a crusty old nav with us (Uncle Chuckles) who listened in for a few seconds before announcing "No Sir, you are completely wrong. This was entirely SOP...etc...etc". The B-word gave him one of those smiles you normally see when someone realises that they've stepped in dogsh*t, turned on his heel without a reply and walked out in a huff.

Later we were told that the utter ar$e didn't like visiting aircrew using his sqn's crewroom. So next time we went to Leuchars we were treated to the usual firendly reception from the excellent CC in the 111 Sqn old ATC tower crewroom.

I even saw a piece on TV where the tw@t B-word turned up at some memorial ceremony wearing his name tag. As if anyone didn't know who he was!

He made Ba$tard Bill seem like everyone's favourite uncle...

[Pontius Navigator]

Roghead you obviously know all about curtains then.

Some AMs seem to be throughly good blokes. Many of these crap out at 2-star level. Those that get the 3rd or 4th however . . .

Met Graydon a few times and also got picked up by his ex-SHAPE driver, Turkish WO Retd, who thought him tops too. Then there is Love Child's father; he seemed an OK bloke too. So the tree top seems OK.

Next up though we have the CinC lines. When I was visiting Strike frequently everyone was talking about the Synch Laptop Project. Later it dawned that they were talking about Bastard Bill's waterproof satellite wired laptop that he could use on his yacht in the Med - Cincs Laptop Project.

What about that other CinC laptop? The one in Car World Show Rooms?

Or the last man, he seemed OK.

Back in the days on BofB pilots there was the equally infamous, in for himself, CinC MEAF - JEJ.

[Gainesy]

know all about curtains then

Cue for Nil Nos the Spearchucker...:)

[Ali Barber]

As far as I can recall, you had to throw rocks at him to get him to fly, so he was never detined to be on PAS!

He did my arrival interview at MOD. It broke the record for shortest ever interviews. It went:

"Come in. Horrible tie. Learn the MOD telephone directory. I've worked here 5 times. Horrible tie. get out." (to be read with a nasal twang)

My hat goes off to the Harrier pilot who introduced the Scottish AOC 11 Gp at Brackell staff college. He was told just before, that every time he mentioned the B's name, he would be charged a round for everyone in the room. He was supposed to do a 10 minute introduction, but his lasted for 15 minutes - and not once did he use his name. Never were so many people listening so carefully in that lecture hall as during that 15 minutes. Total respect!

My blood boils when ever I hear of that man. Scum of the earth comes to mind.

[Pontius Navigator]

Even shorter arrival interview, Sir John Curtis for whom I have great respect, AOC 18 Gp, having bumped into new sqn ldr upon being given his name said "Get off my station".

Said officer was then immediately posted to STC pending early, unplanned departure at the age of 37. He had transgressed the AOCs moral code being involved with a fellow officer's wife, also an officer.

[teeteringhead]

"Come in. Horrible tie. Learn the MOD telephone directory. I've worked here 5 times. Horrible tie. get out." ... that was a long arrival interview Ali!!

When I starting working for him on the 4th floor when he was DAFSD my interview in toto was: "I've sacked 6 staff officers since I've been here. If you're no good you'll be the 7th!":rolleyes:

Another dit from that time: I'd spent a coupla days getting a draft something or other to a satisfactory standard for his signature - I think we went to "final" about 5 times and I finally got him to sign it late on a Friday afternoon so that it could go upstairs to ACAS...

Teeters the Staff Officer gets in on Monday morning to be summoned by ACAS' PSO ....

"Acting ACAS wants to see you" (I didn't know ACAS was on leave and the Scottish one-star was standing in)

Up to the 6th floor to be greeted:

"Ah Teeters - you wrote this piece?"

"Yessir"

"Well, as Acting ACAS I'm not sure I can agree with DAFSD's line!"

... I was at a loss for words to see him disagree with ..... himself!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

I was at LU when the B word was OC 43 and Chris Colville was OC 111. Talk about a contrast....

Not CCCCovile? The man who started the decimation of a once world class flying training system?

Now if you think the B word was bad, he tried to be too purple as VCDS often agreeing to stuff that damaged the lt blue, his replacement is very purple AS LONG AS its done the green way!!!

PS Have it on good authority (one of his former ADCs) that the B-word was a regular reader of PPRuNE. Rumour has it he used to contribute on a fairly regular basis as well.

[rej]

I met him once when I was on exchange in Canada and he came out for a visit. One word springs to mind but I can't use it on this 'faimily' thread.

I have a good friend who works for EDS and is responsible for the installation of IT systems at overseas Brit mil/MoD establishments. I hope for his sake that he never has to meet the man; but then again as a civvy he could always tell him to do what the vast majority of the air force always wanted to say but never could :D

[Chris Kebab]

Well hopefully he will read this.

He was the biggest **** I have ever had to work for. He should be well and truely consigned to the dustbin of Air Force history.

Would be fantastic to tell where to get off now he is no more than a salesman.

[Pontius Navigator]

rej <<One word springs to mind but I can't use it on this 'faimily' thread. >>

Does it rhyme with that 4 letter word used to denote a negative g push?

Digressing, do we have a monopoly on Bwords or do our dark blue breatheren or cousins have them too? From an earlier thread it looks as if the RAAF have similar issues with sewage.

[BEagle]

No-one else could possibly be as nasty a POS as the B-word!

Perhaps when EDS realise that having the ar$e B-word on their payroll will cause doors to be slammed in their face, they'll kick the bug ger into touch?

[maxburner]

Roghead, What a sheltered life you have lead. Us AD types had to put up with him for years.

By the way, how are you these days?

[PPRuNe Pop]

Ya know! I can't help feeling that you didn't like the man. :)

[Chris Kebab]

And on top of all that he was a truely crap pilot.

[rej]

Pontius Navigator, you should tap into that mindreading talent of yours mate!:E

[Widger]

Every Service has 'em. If you look around at some of your peers, you can spot them now. Thankfully, the current class in the RN appear to be a pretty good bunch, especially the outgoing 1SL.

I knew one particularly nasty piece of dirt, but thankfully, he only got to 1 star. Outside now. Funny old thing, he was Scottish as well!

[JessTheDog]

These sort of industry recruits are only ever used for business development, ie. pouring drinks down peoples necks at Farnborough. As pointed out earlier, when the exclusion zone around this person is noted, his worth (or lack of it will be realised.

The most consistent opinion I heard during my time in the RAF was with regard to this officer! I never met him (thankfully, given the big thick ring on the sleeve that seperated our ranks and likely one-way avenue of any conversation) but it doesn't stop you hating them! :}

[Old Ned]

Come, come. Was he really this bad? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm, you're right, he was:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[GengisKhant]

When this thread looks like reaching a conclusion...., should I send a link to the EDS Dir HR for her attention..... ? would put the cat amongst the whatsits... or what?

So...., keep them coming guys......,

Would I do such a thing......., what do the contributors think?

GengisK :ok:

[16 blades]

OOH! I would pay good money to see the results of THAT! Do it! I think the feeling of smugness and morale boost to 90% of the RAF would be well worth it.

16B

[Safeware]

Despite the universal, justified dislike of the man, I think sending such an email isn't a very smart move. What if there was a comeback to the providers of this service? Who suffers most then?

sw

[soddim]

Heard after dinner and several passes of the port:

Scottish Grp Capt: "What do you think the most important attribute of a leader is?"

Pissed Sqn ldr: "You mean of a fighter squadron leader?"

SGC: "Yes"

PSL: "Well, ability to lead in the air"

SGC: "I disagree"

PSL: "You would"

The Sqn Ldr remained a Sqn Ldr and the Scottish Grp Capt remained an a**hole.

[Mmmmnice]

How refreshing - a thread within which there is universal agreement!
Pass it on Genghis - do everyone a favour.

[Tigs2]

Well after 20 or 30 years in the military,upon retirement, the reference you get from the Airforce (standard bland printout) does not really tell you a lot about the individual concerned and their character traits. Therefore Genghis it seems to me that a link to this thread would add volumes to the understanding of an employer concerning an employee:E :E Its got to be done, after all, what do any of us owe him:hmm: :hmm: :rolleyes: NOTHING!
Go Ghengis Go!!

[The Swinging Monkey]

Ghengis,
Yes, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease pass it on.
If you want money just name your price old boy!!!!

God, if only EDS knew what they were getting.
Go on Ghengis, just do it, please, pretty please even!
Kind regards
TSM

[FJJP]

I led a 5-day det to Lu [for their training] and had the misfortune to have to speak to this man. I tend to take people as I find them and form my own opinion as to the worth of an individual - I take third-party vitriol against an individual with a bag of salt.

Only once in my long career did I come across a case where the virtiol wasn't strong enough - yup, you've guessed it. Before or since, I have never met such a rude, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant individual. You normally welcome visitors to your station, and as detcom, I went to pay a courtesy call to the man. He couldn't be bothered to say hello, welcome, etc. Height of ignorance.

But there are many out there who were worth their weight in pure gold, eg, Sir Mike Knight - one of the most pleasant human beings you could hope to meet...

BTW, not clever to distribute a link to this place to his new venue - it could backfire badly on Danny, et al, and the [I was going to say ar*****e, but that's a useful thing] thing is just the individual to do just that, in keeping with his demeanour.

[Pontius Navigator]

At least this thread is confidential and would not be seen buy any tabloid press, would it?





:}

[green granite]

Somebody must have liked him otherwise he would not have got to where he did, and probably the same people are involved with procurement :{

Besides from what you all say about him he sounds as though he will fit in perfectly with the way the yanks do buissiness :E

[cazatou]

FJJP,

You never met JMA Parker then?

[BEagle]

Known as 'PCL' at Leeming in 1974....

Power Crazed Loonie!

[nutcracker43]

Sir A B

Gentlemen, is it really ethical to hide behind the anonymity offered by this thread in making the comments that have been made thus far? To me it brings into question one's personal value system

NC43

[BEagle]

You can't have known or ever had to suffer under the B-word, I guess?

[Tigs2]

Pontius Navigator


"At least this thread is confidential and would not be seen buy any tabloid press, would it?"


Wheew, lucky you thought of that PN! Gosh, if any tabloids would have got hold of this type of stuff what would they think? Good job no Journo's come on this thread or we'd have to watch out what we say about the scottish officer:E :ok: Just goes to show that you can be a leader if you create a system wherebye your people will follow you out of an idle sense of curiosity! I think if he would have led a charge into battle he would have been the first to fall under a hail of bullets, and none of them from the front.

On a serious note, do people really think a link to this would backfire?? I cant see how, but i am feeling rather dull this morning.

Nutcracker, Yes it is perfectly acceptable to hide under the anonymity of this thread to make such comments. Its thoroughly well deserved and lets face it, it's the first time in his career that he's been responsible for raising morale in the RAF.

[27mm]

Still haven't heard a rational explanation as to how such a universally detested individual with reportedly lower than average aircrew ability rose to the rank of ACM - if the system allowed this to happen, then the system is wrong - either that, or he must be a Freemason or something.....

[goldcup]

Only met him the once, when as someone not important enough to get a real HS125, he got a 55(R) Sqn Dominie to take him on a tour of France. We dropped him at Salon and pre-positioned at Bordeaux to await the great:yuk: man. (Great night stop by the way!) Finally, the staff car arrived, accompanied by a people wagon stuffed to the roof with wine, food, new clothes for the missus etc. He sat in the car whilst his ADC struggled to load the jet. After a while it became blatantly obvious that his loot wasn't all going to fit in. His solution? Getting the poor ADC to come up to the cockpit and ask us if we'd mind unloading our bags to make more room. I think the French driver may have got a case of wine or two that day.

A v good friend of mine (who I'm sure will correct this anecdote if it's wrong) took him to Zurich in a Dominie. As they joined the hold, the B-word stormed to the front to demand an explanation. "We're joining the hold sir, its very busy tonight" came the reply. "Do they know I have a meeting to go to?" asked the passenger. Cue a very embarassed Dominie pilot asking Zurich approach if they can jump the queue because their passenger has a meeting. "Oh, is he a VIP?" replied the Swiss controller. "Sir, are you a VIP?" asked the pilot without a trace of a grin on his face.

They joined the hold.

[jindabyne]

BEagle

Why do you jump to that conclusion? From my earlier threads you'll see that I share n43's view (unless his is a tongue-in-cheek posting!). I find it a little difficult to understand why some of the posters on this thread interprete my view as siding with a particular individual. That is not the case - I simply don't warm to the feeding frenzy going on - whatever one's view of a particular individual.

No doubt this will yet again attract further sarcasm - fine, go ahead.

Tigs

And if it's so 'thoroughly well deserved', then what's the problem with declaring your hand?

[Tigs2]

Goldcup

You have brightened up an otherwise dull and dreary day. LOL! Did you offload your bags?? Next time i'm in the hold at LHR i must tell the cabin crew to ask if the Capt is aware that i have a meeting to go to!

[miles magistrate]

Time to throw ones hat into the ring – but a few caveats first.
1. I very rarely post here. When I have dipped my toes in the past I am often offended by peoples stupid responses. There are some very opinionated individuals (no names but I am sure you can all think of some) who use this site. I am frequently amazed at how long they seem to spend expressing nothing more than complete uneducated and in the majority of cases wrong crap.
2. I am well qualified to discuss matters on this thread. I was Military aircrew for more years that I care to recall and I do have a knowledge of EDS.
3. I have never met the individual concerned.
OK now that’s been said here we go. Firstly a little back ground stuff about EDS:
EDS Defence is a UK listed company. It is a separate trading company from the USA EDS Group for obvious reasons – think security for one. Having said that it does have links with Plano for employee training or HR etc. EDS Defence is separate from the UK EDS that handles accounts such as CSA, IR and all the other well known stories. It is also separate from some very positive and successful accounts such as London Transport, Barclays bank, Rolls Royce, British Airways to name but a few. The point is we need to have a balanced view. EDS World wide had a turn over last year in excess of US$20 billion (yep Billion), with a business that size there are bound to be some customers that have issues.
As I have said I do not know the individual concerned – but I do know that no company especially a defence orientated one is going to employ anybody unless they can see dollars (and lots) being generated. You chaps may believe he is the biggest loser ever (judging by the comments) but trust me, a serious amount of time and effort (thus money) would have been expended before this chap was given a formal offer of employment. I can assure you despite your venom he will have friends and he will have the ability to influence. In industry we focus on one thing – making money. Ex Military no matter who they are, if they are employed in the Defence marketing arena are normally only good for contacts and for opening doors. If you are a very senior officer then you are able to maintain that for some years. If you are a Flt Lt/ Sqn Ldr/Capt/Major/ 2 ½ er you can probably manage 3 – 4 years before all your contacts dry up.
Finally, in my experience this sort of thing is not new, I have seen it several times before. When the individual, whoever it may be, achieves his or her aims they change, especially so when they enter civvy street. How many times have you seen selfish thrusters who get to 1* level and then completely transform into a another completely pleasant individual? I have my doubts about this dude, but who knows!!
We do not suffer fools in the civvy world, especially ignorant ones, and if they do not change then the big “Thanks but no Thanks pill” is administered pretty quickly.
Trust me EDS has seen this thread!! ;)
Time to sit back, wait and be inundated with all the usual responses.
MM

[keithl]

MM: I do not by any means speak for everyone here, but I do speak reasonably and quietly, so let me attempt a reply which will not fall foul of your Point 1.
A lot of the foregoing is venting of spleen, which (speaking for myself) is enormously therapeutic. I did not know/suffer the subject officer as well as many here, but he made such a lasting impression that even after 30 years it was great to give vent to my feelings about him. Others clearly feel the same.
I think we understand that it will make little difference to his employment or his future character if he and EDS read this - his nature is to ignore what anyone else thinks anyway, which is why he is so universally hated. No-one is denying that he had the required ability to rise, only stating that he was most exceptionally offensive as he did so. Lots of people are that way on the way up, but he was exceptionally so. Which is why (jinds and NC43) I think "ethics" can be set aside on this occasion.
In short, it's unlikely to do him good, or harm. It just makes us feel better!

[miles magistrate]

I have no difficulty whatsoever if you feel this individual needs to be publicly castigated. He has obviously had a remarkably profound effect on all who had the misfortune to cross his path (perhaps a small understatement!). Whilst I have had some similar experiences in the last 35 years in the aviation business, this chap seems to take the proverbial biscuit.
If you feel it helps, be my guest - rant away.
MM

[airborne_artist]

MM wrote:
EDS Defence is a UK listed company. It is a separate trading company from the USA EDS Group for obvious reasons – think security for one.

Can you confirm/reference this? From http://www.edsdefence.com/flash_content/history.html:

"EDS was founded on the 27th June 1962. Then, EDS was incorporated in the state of Texas
for $1,000. Today, EDS is a global organisation with clients across public and private sectors
and an annual turnover in excess of $22 billion.

In 1990 EDS acquired SD Scicon and formed EDS Defence Limited. EDS Defence
currently employs approximately 2400 staff across 17 sites in the UK often at client locations." No mention of it being at all separate - and all my contacts there have never mentioned it.

[cazatou]

BEagle

Our paths must have crossed at Leeming then.

Some years later, having taxied in at Paris CDG, I was somewhat surprised to find that we were being met by a young Sqn Ldr (Admin) who apologised profusely that JMA was not their to meet us. He had, apparently, decided to go shooting with a French General instead.

I was quite happy not to have to meet him again - Mrs T was quite surprised though.

[miles magistrate]

Airborne Artist:

I see your research skills are up to the same standard as you box kite flying skills. You must be very proud to have mastered the Google search engine.

I am an individual who would not have said what I said unless I was sure of my facts.

I suggest you speak to one of your many EDS Defence contacts. I have the number of the canteen kitchen if you need it.

[BEagle]

Not quite in the B-word league of nastiness, but one of the PCL's less than starring moments was to make the graduating students of the last Leeming FTS course act as beaters for his shooting party the day before their graduation parade, if I recall correctly....

I count my self lucky that I never served directl under the B-word, and only encountered him indirectly. But what has been written here is fully accurate, according to my sources.

However, I can think of one or two other back-stabbing, thrusting little $hits whose way to the stars of Air Rank is onwards and upwards over the corpses of the careers of others....

[foldingwings]

Widger (and all others who have misidented the Scottish Group Captain's nationality)

He is English (and an arrogant and bullying buffoon at that)! It is a slur on the Scottish nation (no guesses as to where I come from) to consider the B-Word anything other than English.

He obtained his appellation as SGC because, given the penalty imposed for mentioning his name, alternatives had to be found! He gained SGC because, at the time, he was the Station Commander of RAF Leuchars, which is situated in the Kingdom of Fife which all will know is the only Kingdom today within the United Kingdom. The Kingdom of Fife is in Scotland.

He's English through and through and a bar steward complete!

[Tigs2]

Miles Magistrate
I fully accept your comment in point 1 of your post number 83, however you really cant state that if your going to give a reply to Airborne Artist(post 89)as you just did!!
In terms of Transactional Analysis, if you are going to speak to people as if the are children, then i assure you 100% they will respond to you in a childish manner. Your manner at post 89 may explain why you have had childish/stupid responses in the past. The rules are simple, if you speak to people like that here its ok, but dont be suprised at the response that may follow.

[ORAC]

He obtained his appellation as SGC because, given the penalty imposed for mentioning his name, alternatives had to be found!

It was also an oblique reference to the Scottish play, which name cannot be mentioned lest bad luck befall....

[Training Risky]

Is that the play entitled

















Macbeth?

[GengisKhant]

MM..., you are absolutley right.....in more ways than one!!! I have it on very good authority that this string is getting circulation in certain areas within EDS.... and aparently, raising a few eyebrows!! :ooh:

So no requirement to forward formal link to EDS HR. In any case, EDS HR would probably attempt to bury it to cover any negitivity, to what I am advised is seen as the appointment of a most prodigious individual, to head up a new and important department within EDS.

The responses in this string are a damming indictment of an individual with little or no thought for anyone other than himself. Without conducting an individual psychological assessment on him, it is difficult to understand why some people like this go through their life making it difficult for others, and at the same time, appearing to enjoy the experience of seeing others suffer...., but they are out there, as has been witnessed by this string.

Those who came in contact with him, and also with BW..., another out and out B@@stard, who would revert to nothing short of thuggery to get his own way..., should feel happy that they have both left the Service.

Lets just hope that it is not too long before he logs on to this site, and no doubt, he will probably revel in the fact that his career impacted on so many....., equally, I would suspect, that he will not care a hoot regarding the adverse comments in this string, and most probably feel that he achieved his aim of upsetting as many as possible during his career.........,

At ten years old..., probably got beat up by the seven year old girl next door...NO NO NO I was not going to go there!!!!


regards

GengisK :ok:

[cazatou]

Gengis K

Just to avoid any possible confusion; I think you meant Sir W W. Otherwise known as "Bungalow BIll"

Not a lot upstairs!

[Tigs2]

Caz
Not a lot upstairs!

Apart from some very nice very expensive curtains and publicly owned antique furniture i'm told.

[GengisKhant]

Yes..., sorry for the confusion...., and of course you are correct it was WW, but I just referred to him as Bill..... the W@nker..., so BW stuck in my mind!!!

GengisK

[nutcracker43]

Catazou.

But enough to get him further up the totem pole than most, if not all, here on this thread.

NC43

[wiggy]

Wasn't I the lucky one.... W W left Coningsby just as I arrived on the OCU ( was it something I said?) and, on a nightstop, dressed in my gro-bag I left the bar at Leuchars seconds before the "Scottish" chap walked in ( and a belated thanks to the Treble One guys for the heads up).

Actually, for some reason ;) this thread has got me thinking; what happened to TCL? ( if you need to ask etc.....)

[Northern Circuit]

I thought it was TFCL

[Widger]

If he is a bad as some of you say, then I would not be surprised if some of you, that have identified said Scottish Officer, end up with a summons for Libel!Title of the thread clearly states who this person is. Whilst I am not arguing against what any of you say, you must be very careful in a thread where a person has been identified. It is quite funny to read sat here on the sidelines but, I would urge caution. Maybe a new thread is required.

[An Teallach]

Statements are only libellous if demonstrably untrue. I was fortunate never to meet this thing. However, given the number and vehemence of his detractors, I imagine a defender of any libel suit would find no shortage of character witnesses to support the defence.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Widger,

telling the truth about someone, and having an opinion is NOT libel
Its FACT old boy!
Kind regards
TSM

[jindabyne]

SM & AT

I wouldn't be quite so sure chaps.

[Widger]

I have no wish to supress this thread by the way. It is the funniest thing on here since the Car Wash thread!

[nutcracker43]

Re. Sir A B

There appear to be a great number of people on this thread who have never met the man but speak with great authority as to his character...presumably those of you who wrote 1369's did so in the same way?

NC43

[airborne_artist]

Miles Magister wroteAirborne Artist:

I see your research skills are up to the same standard as you box kite flying skills. You must be very proud to have mastered the Google search engine.

I am an individual who would not have said what I said unless I was sure of my facts.

I suggest you speak to one of your many EDS Defence contacts. I have the number of the canteen kitchen if you need it.

So rather than answer the Q you choose to abuse the questioner - not a mate of Two Jags are you?

http://www.hrmconsultancy.net/images/EDSlistinginfo.jpg

You'll see that this tells us that EDS is only listed on the LSE as a US company - and since you've not been able to reference your "facts" I'll choose to believe the LSE.

NB - don't forget that some of us like to apply a little irony to our profile :E

[Roghead]

Nutcracker, old chap, has someone been squeezing yours, making the eyes water so much that you are unable to read the written word?
I cannot recall anybody who has not come in contact with this B word writing about him. All the comments made have been from those who knew him.
Sadly, I didn't knowingly work for him, sadly because my career could not have been affected by him and I may have found my way into a different world a little earlier.
MB, I'm fine and must have had a sheltered life.
FW, I'm delighted that you have clarified the lineanage(sp) of the individual.
:E

[miles magistrate]

OK AA lets call this quits. I let rip when perhaps a little restraint and self control was called for - apols. :O
FYI EDS Defence Ltd is a UK Registered Company (Reg No 53419 if that’s any use), its head office is located in Uxbridge.
Sadly Two Jags is not a mate of mine but I am sure he is a fine fellow.
Re the B word, I have just tried that on a non AD and non FJ friend as was astounded by his vitriol. Mr B is not a nice fella. To add insult to injury I used the word and have been financially punished – I could use another B word, but as I said above, restraint is called for here.
MM

[jindabyne]

Rog old mate,

I think you'll find, if you re-read carefully, that nuts is correct ----

Hope the golf is improving

[nutcracker43]

Roghead,

Thanks for that! I assure you nobody has been squeezing them at all...wouldn't let them. However, as much a s*** sir A B appears to be/have been I have not been one to 'follow the pack' and I do find the sort of 'slaying' slightly distasteful...sorry about that, but there it is. It reminds me once of a Flt Cdr inviting me to his house for drinks...no wives, just the chaps. The chaps in question were largely those who had been given a 'hard time' by another Flt Cdr on the Sqn, who was a great deal more than a bit of an ass (a real tosser if you should know), and what they were going to do about him...some were eagerly following the pack. I, along with the crewman leader, said our goodnights and went to the bar. I do not know what happened but I have never seen anything quite so treacherous and underhand in all my life. Some here will no doubt recognise the scene...possibly even contributing to this thread. I assure you everyone on the SH world would know both the Flt Cdrs concerned, which in turn would start another thread.

NC43

[PPRuNe Pop]

Guys,

I think this thread is descending into a bag of rags. I am also concerned about libel laws.

If the man is truly unworthy he is fair game but the vitriol is increasing by the day and I don't think we can leave this up.

Sorry but PPRuNe comes first.