BA changes to longhaul economy

[purr777]

For those who are unaware (and interested) BA has decided to reintroduce the 2 hot meals in World Traveller following high levels of customer complaints regarding its second meal offering (or lack of). Routes affected are NRT, SIN, BKK, CPT, MRU, JNB, PVG and PEK.

BA is monitoring the situation as there has been a significant increase in complaints relating to lack of service and crew visibility on long range sectors.

[Hand Solo]

BA is monitoring the situation as there has been a significant increase in complaints relating to lack of service and crew visibility on long range sectors

They wouldn't all be in the bunks on long range sectors would they? Even with a second hot meal service I bet most crew won't return from breaks until 1hr45 before landing so no improvement in visibility there.

[wiggy]

here we go:ooh:

[FirstOfficer]

Funny enough TAP Portugal is also (re)introducing hot meals to some of their routes.

I guess they had their fare share of customer complaints aswell, it's good to know that some airlines take onboard their customers views.

[Globaliser]

This is good, particularly after the reintroduction of real food after the awful shorthaul flirtation with crisps at all times of the day.

[slim_slag]

Globaliser, BA turning into a no frills airline is obviously getting to you. Did you actually call that stuff they throw at you from a cold trolley real food? :)

[Hufty]

AT LAST they get the point......there IS a market outside low cost.:ouch:

how many airline have chopped service levels only to realise that their customers really DO want something other than a seat and a slap in the face!!

About time...

[christep]

Routes affected are NRT, SIN, BKK, CPT, MRU, JNB, PVG and PEK.Strange to see HKG not on that list since it seems to include most (all?) of the other Far East destinations... (or maybe they never dropped the second hot meal on HKG?)

[purr777]

HKG is on the list, but I missed it off. Apologies.

[Globaliser]

Globaliser, BA turning into a no frills airline is obviously getting to you. Did you actually call that stuff they throw at you from a cold trolley real food? :)I've not done a lot of BA shorthaul since the GG dispute, but in addition to the full English ISTR sandwich, yoghurt, fruit and cake all appearing from time to time. Yes, that's real food in my book - there are many days at desk-bound work when I have to survive on this (excluding the full English) for breakfast lunch and dinner. Maybe I'm undemanding, although my waistline doesn't suggest that I'm about to starve to death. :D

[bealine]

They wouldn't all be in the bunks on long range sectors would they? Even with a second hot meal service I bet most crew won't return from breaks until 1hr45 before landing so no improvement in visibility there.

How unfair is that!!! I have never seen one of our flights without at least one attendant patrolling the cabin with OJ and water! (The only flight I ever commented on that was like that, was one of my wife's CO aircraft, and she retorted "You wouldn't have known - you were "spark out" all the way!!!") Indeed, she said that a member of crew did patrol the cabin all night long.

I travelled back with the crew from Abu Dhabi last month - an overnight 777 flight of 7 hours duration. In that time, the crew each took a short break "on the hoof" to take a bite in the aft galley, and there were always two people patrolling the cabin. The purser or senior steward was vigilant to the attendants' call bell and I can honestly say no passenger waited more than two minutes for seat-side attention.

Please bear in mind I am not management - just a humble Customer Service guy - so the crew had nothing to prove to me!!!

[Desert Diner]

and there were always two people patrolling the cabin.

How do I find one of those flights out of the ME with BA?

[Skylion]

The restoration of the second meal is good news but also needed is the ability to serve them at times other than the first and last 2 hours of the flight. This is particularly a problem on Far East westbound daylights ( which may be why BA dont do any except from TYO). Perceived Cabin Crew priority is to maximise time in the bunks "To Fly to Rest" rather than "To Fly to Serve" and in truth cabin patrolling, evening in daylight, is minimal. In Club World even the "Raid the Larder" is often hidden by forbiddingly closed curtains. They do have a serious problem against the style and friendliness of most other long haul carriers, other than the US majors who are very similar.

[radeng]

bealine,

BA288 in WT+ on Thursday March 2 didn't have patrols handing out water. Mind you, the crew were there if you got up and went to the galley to ask for it. But I didn't feel that somehow, they were up to the usual BA standard.

Wasn't too impressed with the lounge staff in PHX, either, this time.

[Eddy]

To those complaining about the visibility of British Airways' crew in the cabin, I'm terribly sorry. I'm sorry that you didn't get an interview. I'm sorry that you didn't get through the assessment day. I'm sorry that your company doesn't treat you as well as ours. Don't worry though - there's always next year.

I can only see two reasons for the bitterness that people extend towards British Airways as a company and British Airways' employees.

1 - Anger at not being given a job with us (falling short at either stage of the application).

2 - Jealousy that British Airways staff are treated well by our employers, we're rewarded fairly generously for the work we do and the vast majority of us work for a company that we can be truly proud of.

I always make sure that 20-minutely walks are done (even if I do them myself, which happens a lot but I don't mind - I get easily bored and would rather do the walks myself and let my colleague have a sit down) and rarely leave the galley without a tray of drinks in my hand. Call bells are answered almost immediately but a big problem that we have (I've been on lots of other airlines and have never experienced it onboard them) is congregating of passengers in the Galleys.

We are NOT ALLOWED to leave galleys unattended while passengers are in there and there are many members of the public who insist on standing in the galleys or in the door areas immediately next to the galleys. No matter how many times we ask them to return to their seats they never seem to do so. This means that it's impossible for two people to perform a juiceround. One has to stay in the galley while the other delivers the refreshments. By the time this one person has done the whole cabin, it's time to start again which just isn't practical.

Walkarounds are one thing but a juice round is something completely different.
bealine,
BA288 in WT+ on Thursday March 2 didn't have patrols handing out water. Mind you, the crew were there if you got up and went to the galley to ask for it. But I didn't feel that somehow, they were up to the usual BA standard.
Wasn't too impressed with the lounge staff in PHX, either, this time.

Excellent posting. You've displayed a level of maturity above that we're used to seeing in BA related threads. Instead of reverting to an immediate tirade of abuse against BA, you've highlighted a bonafide complaint/concern that you have about our service. I'm personally saddened to hear that the regular patrols weren't carried out but would like to assure you that fortunately, this isn't common. While they may not take place exactly every 20 minutes (with other commitments in the galley - medical etc.) I've never been on a flight (even as a passenger) where I haven't seen them being done atleast half-hourly.

Hopefully, yours was an isolated incident.

Again though, I applaud your maturity - it's shame others couldn't learn from you.

The restoration of the second meal is good news but also needed is the ability to serve them at times other than the first and last 2 hours of the flight. This is particularly a problem on Far East westbound daylights ( which may be why BA dont do any except from TYO).

While our meals are designed to fit in with the local timezone (i.e. an early morning departure will see you served with breakfast while an evening one will see you recieve dinner), the main function of meals onboard flights is to ensure that passengers are well nourished for their journey. The stress of getting ready to fly means that often, people arrive at flights having had nothing to eat all day (atleast, nothing substantial). It's important to feed these passengers almost as soon as possible to ensure that the are fit for the flight. The latter meal (be it a delibag/delibox/hot meal) is designed to ensure that the passengers are suitibly nourished for the final part of their journey - again, after leaving an aircraft and in a hurry to get bags, hire cars etc., it can often be hours until passengers eat again.

You raise an excellent point, but it is difficult to arrange meal times to suit everyone.

[radeng]

Eddy,
I do travel a fair amount by air - only 19 flights so far this year, which I know isn't that much, compared with many. (12 of them on BA) This BA 288 was unusual, because in my experience, BA cabin crew are so far superior to the rest that they should be hired out as trainers to other airlines, especially in the USA.
It's because of this sort of service that I've come to expect that bit more out of BA. The fact that it didn't happen this time, I will just treat as being an exception. So far, I only have another 3 trips booked on BA in the next 4 weeks......and I intend to stick with them. Except that going to 'BA Connect' and losing Club Europe from Bristol will mean that I have to use Heathrow or Birmingham instead, which is a pity. Some of us are prepared to pay a bit extra (or rather, to get our employers to pay a bit extra!) to get the service, such as hot meals.
Long live BA and its (generally) cabin crew concept of service! But I do find that short haul are better than long haul, for some reason. BEA v. BOAC?

[Eddy]

Eddy,
I do travel a fair amount by air - only 19 flights so far this year, which I know isn't that much, compared with many. (12 of them on BA) This BA 288 was unusual, because in my experience, BA cabin crew are so far superior to the rest that they should be hired out as trainers to other airlines, especially in the USA.
It's because of this sort of service that I've come to expect that bit more out of BA. The fact that it didn't happen this time, I will just treat as being an exception. So far, I only have another 3 trips booked on BA in the next 4 weeks......and I intend to stick with them. Except that going to 'BA Connect' and losing Club Europe from Bristol will mean that I have to use Heathrow or Birmingham instead, which is a pity. Some of us are prepared to pay a bit extra (or rather, to get our employers to pay a bit extra!) to get the service, such as hot meals.
Long live BA and its (generally) cabin crew concept of service! But I do find that short haul are better than long haul, for some reason. BEA v. BOAC?

Very insightful matey! Thanks.

With regards to the Longhaul Vs. Shorthaul comment, I don't mean to belittle the fabulous work that my colleagues on Shorthaul do as I know they work hard and they work well, but perhaps the reason that Shorthaul seems to be better in terms of presence (I assume this is what you were referring to?) is that by the time you're in the air, the service has been carried out and the clearing in has been performed, the flight's almost over. They have to be in the cabin because flight times dictate that to them. On Longhaul, we have the large gaps between services which does make it more difficult to keep a regular presence up in the cabin (as there are also interruptions from passengers in the galleys).

Regardless, thanks again!

[Gouabafla]

I can only see two reasons for the bitterness that people extend towards British Airways as a company and British Airways' employees.

1 - Anger at not being given a job with us (falling short at either stage of the application).

2 - Jealousy that British Airways staff are treated well by our employers, we're rewarded fairly generously for the work we do and the vast majority of us work for a company that we can be truly proud of.


What??? I've never applied to BA for a job and I'm never likely to, nor am I particularly interested in the pay and conditions of the staff. If I complain about BA (or any other airline) it's because I've received bad service and for no other reason. That being said, BA tend to be pretty good and don't give a lot of cause for complaint.

[radeng]

Eddy,
To get an idea of other airlines - admittedly ground staff.
The other year, radeng is returning from San Diego. HP191 (America West) to Phoenix, connecting into BA288. HP191 has the incoming a/c running late. Appeal is made for everyone to go to the desk for their re-routing etc. Radeng gets in line, arrives at desk.
Lady behind desk: 'What's your final destination tonight, sir?'
radeng: ' London Heathrow'
Lady behind desk: ' Oh sh*t!'
In that situation we all think that, but I doubt that you would find a BA check in person saying it. (America West sent an electric buggy for the two connecting passengers - for those who have never had the pleasure, it's about a mile from gate A24 where the SAN flights usually arrive to B25 where BA288 leaves. Buggy battery was low and had to be pushed up a slope. BA held the flight for 5 minutes, and upgraded me - something they wouldn't do these days under the new management policy)
Somehow, the s/h cabin crew sem to have a more service oriented atitude than even l/h club class. Don't know why - maybe it's because s/h is shorter.
The Gatwick based crews seem to try harder, too, although this is not to be construed as a criticism of the others because all of BA are generally very good. Although this does NOT apply to the management of the airline, who don't seem anywhere near as customer focussed as they should be, especially for Gold card holders. They should, for example, be playing merry hell with BAA and DfT about the queues in LHR security - and going public to shame those bodies if they can't get something changed. And their mess up about catering last year showed very poor management judgement.

[Eddy]

What??? I've never applied to BA for a job and I'm never likely to, nor am I particularly interested in the pay and conditions of the staff. If I complain about BA (or any other airline) it's because I've received bad service and for no other reason. That being said, BA tend to be pretty good and don't give a lot of cause for complaint.

Maybe not, but at the same time you didn't come on here any make a cheap, insulting and bitter comment about British Airways' crew. Reading the above posts you'll see that there have been a few such comments, so my own jibe was aimed at them.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions about the service we offer etc., but our pay, conditions and benefits are our business and our business only - they have nothing to do with the masses of other forum users who take it upon themselves to grill us about it almost daily.

The Gatwick based crews seem to try harder, too, although this is not to be construed as a criticism of the others because all of BA are generally very good.

As an ex-Gatwick lad, I'd agree that the service onboard most flights from the airport seems to be far more friendly. Gatwick is a very junior base - a lot of the people there are either on their first flying jobs or have just joined the airline from another who perhaps treated them less well than British Airways do. As a result, a real enthusiasm shines through. Crews bond immediately and it's like a party from Briefing to ByeBye at the other end.

Heathrow is home to our more experienced crew and while thoroughly professional and brilliant at their jobs, many of the more personal touches that you would enjoy at Gatwick are sadly missing at Heathrow. Like you say, however, this doesn't make the service at either airport any better or worse than the other, it just means that you might have a slightly more relaxed flight at Gatwick.

[miche2]

Eddy - As an ex-BA LHR longhaul gal I had to reply to your post(s). Firstly, I agree that there are a lot of bitter postings on here re BA, but I am also in the privileged position of knowing exactly what goes on as BA longhaul crew. If you do what you say you do, you are truly an asset to BA - and an exception. Bravo awards to you.

But, I disagree on one area;the main aim of the crew is to maximise their rest and it's been like that at BA for years - nothing to do with serving passengers meals quickly to get them ready for their long flight or even last minute to prepare them for their onward journey - if that were true why did I get my second meal on JAL 3 hours prior to arrival last month? Maybe it was to do with passenger's needing a service. All the crew on that flight did have bunk rest and also did a mini service in between. Nice try, though. I remember those longrange flights when the aim was to get the lights off asap and the breaks started. Please do not say you have not had regular experiences where that is the aim, as you'd be telling porkies.

Now, I still believe BA is one of the better airlines to fly (especially to Europe, US etc), but not to the Far East. And Eddy I left BA as there is only so much stacking juices in the galley at 2am I could cope with. I love flying...as a passenger ....and love this forum as I keep in touch with the crew world without the tedium of saying chicken or beef, tea or coffee 350 times.

Keep it up, old chap :)

[Eddy]

But, I disagree on one area;the main aim of the crew is to maximise their rest and it's been like that at BA for years - nothing to do with serving passengers meals quickly to get them ready for their long flight or even last minute to prepare them for their onward journey - if that were true why did I get my second meal on JAL 3 hours prior to arrival last month? Maybe it was to do with passenger's needing a service. All the crew on that flight did have bunk rest and also did a mini service in between. Nice try, though. I remember those longrange flights when the aim was to get the lights off asap and the breaks started. Please do not say you have not had regular experiences where that is the aim, as you'd be telling porkies.

Thanks Miche!

Point taken about the rest. Perhaps this is the aim of some of my colleagues, but it certainly isn't mine (and I know it isn't the aim of another large portion of the workforce).

Another way of looking at this though is that if we were to bring the second service in to the middle of the flight then all that would happen is that second break would be extended until much closer to landing as there would be no service to perform at this late stage.

It's difficult to stretch our service out as people start getting restless with trays infront of them. We have to go and clear them in which we do, but then what? There really is no need for the entire crew to stay on duty after the clear in has been performed.

I could honestly say that I've never seen (or atleast noticed) a service being deliberately rushed to get breaks started but hell, even if it is, I'm going to take my time and talk to my passengers so even if everyone else is done in three minutes flat, they'll just have to wait for me.

All the best!