UKFT (Rainbow Air) Full JAA ATPL

[pilottom]

Hi all,

I have spent many hours looking at ATPL pilot training! I came up with a, potentially, very interesting training school, UK flight training (Rainbow Air) in Long Beach, California. They offer a JAA PTIP course, which takes about 3 years and costs $83,000 (about £50,000), it will apparently give graduates a Full ATPL (not frozen). Training is initially done in the US then after a FAA ATPL had been gained you come back to the UK to do the JAA ATPL groundwork, then on to Italy for the flight hours for a full JAA ATPL.

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experiences with the company and/or the course? Also, does anyone have any advice for me as to what I should do to find out how good/bad the course is and whether it is worth me paying for it? :confused:

Cheers,
Tom

[GrahamK123]

This does look very interesting.....

[scroggs]

This FTO has come up a few times in the last year or so. Do a search on UKFT and have a look for yourself.

I cannot find reference to the exact course you mention on UKFT's website; they do refer to JAA 'compliant' courses however, which require conversion to JAA licences on your return. It would appear from your post that this is taken care of. I would be very interested to hear from anyone that has completed this course.

The best thing you can do is visit the school and also talk to the CAA.

Edit: in apparent contradiction to the claim on the front page of UKFT's website to be CAA/JAA 'recognised', UKFT do not appear in the list (http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1211) of CAA-approved schools. You will need to clarify this before you commit to anything with UKFT.

Scroggs

[Julian]

The PPL training offered by UKFT is for an FAA PPL, then then apparently giv eyou the JAA airlaw and radio exams and a JAA PPL flight test so you go home with both licences.

However if you look at the quals you exit the course with it seems to elude to what Scroggs is saying. Taken from the website

The following FAA certificates and ratings: PPL-A; IR-A; CPL-SE/ME; CFI; CFII; MEI; 135 LOA (at 1200 hrs); ATPL.

The following JAA certificates and ratings: PPL-A; Cessna Citation Rating; ATPL

So it would appear you come away with a PPL(A) and the ATPL exams? The majority of the training is based around the FAA systems, it does not make any mention of the JAA CPL, ME or IR. Beyond that there is of course MCC which is not mentioned either. I would write to them and get it confirmed that these are also included in the training.

Also, what would be the schedule of payments to the school? Been said a million times, so here is the million-and-one, dont part with your money all at once!!!!!

Sounds very interesting but get the course confirmed in writing first.

Julian.

[welliewanger]

On the surface it sounds good to me, but you need to add the cost of living for 36 months. This will probably add £20k (at a guess). After that, I'm not sure how the airlines view these candidates who effectively "bought" their first job.

[DANNY M]

the mentioned course is offerd by rainbow air...


http://www.rainbowair.com/academy_european_ptip.htm


It looks good but i am concearned that the 'all inclusive' tag is not quite what it seems???


Anyone have any thoughts on the programme?

Danny

[hixton]

Simply stay away from those sharks. It wont be long before they go under as the owner doesnt give a hoot about the flying school side of business, all he cares about is the air charter side.
I heard that the FAA were in there a while ago grounding all their planes because they were all dangerous.
UKFT still owes me money after 3 years, dont pay into the black hole.

If you want serious training go next door to Angel City Flyers. Its run by an Irish guy so you get to train with JAA in mind as well.
I done my multi cpl/ir with no complaints whatsoever, and their aircraft are all brand new.

[Julian]

If you want serious training go next door to Angel City Flyers. Its run by an Irish guy so you get to train with JAA in mind as well.
I done my multi cpl/ir with no complaints whatsoever, and their aircraft are all brand new.

ACF are a very good training organsation and would definitely reccommend them. One thing to correct is that they do not own any aircraft, last time I was there they used aircraft from a variety of sources including Long Beach Flying Club, California Flight Centre and Rainbow Air.

Book ahead with them as they have a good reputation and hence get very busy.

[Muddy Boots]

I went to visit UKFT just the other day and was very depressed by them.

Firstly they are not JAA compliant, there is no such thing. An FTO is either approved by the CAA (or whoever your local JAA authority is) or not. There is no halfway house.

Secondly, they were just dodgy, no other way to describe it. Felt like checking into a cheap motel with the receptionist watching TV at the same time.

I was very disapointed and had hoped to complete my JAA PPL with them. Fortunately there was another post on UKFT where Scrogs had a link to a list of approved JAA schools including the ones outside of the JAA area.

Muddy Boots!

[ChocksAwayUK]

Yup, I looked into doing my Night Qulaification with them a couple of years ago. The guy who runs it (can't remember his name) sent me a copy of his certificate of CAA approval and gave me the details of someone at the CAA I could confirm with. Duly did so and was told that they are not CAA approved (cert. was out of date or something).

[buzzc152]

There are loads of post re UKFT going back many years. Have a good search around and you'll find all the info you need. The bottom line is, don't go near these guys. There are many good quality and REPUTABLE schools in the US you could look at instead.

I went out about 5 years ago for some training with UKF and suffice to say I would never EVER go back.

[willp_03]

Got back from UKFT in Long Beach about 3 weeks ago .. what a waste of time!

Paid (stupidly :ugh:) up front for some hour building .. 50 hours in a 152 .. i was guaranteed a plane for the 14 days but decided since I'd just finished a whole lot of ATPL exams that I'd take my time and stay out there for 4 weeks and make the flying enjoyable rather than cramming it in the 2 weeks.

To cut a long story short .. I got on my flight back to the UK with 19 out of the 50 hours and no refund in my pocket.

For the first few days while I was getting checked out by the instructor there seemed to be always availability of a plane .. or if there wasnt he would make it so there was .. this tactic by the instructors was to play a great part of why I didnt come home with my hours.

Before I arrived in UKFT i hadnt flown for over a year and was very rusty so I knew extra help would be needed. The quality of the 5hr check out was appalling .. every time I came to land my instructor seemed to be overriding my control .. suffice to say that when he signed me off I dont think I had actually landed the plane once by myself (which I realised when I tried to land the a/c myself for the first time after I had been signed off). After he signed me off I ended up spending about 4 hours in the circuit practising my landings .. he had never practised pattern work with me which in a very busy place like Long Beach can be very difficult especially for someone as unexperienced as me.

Then the real fun began when I tried to start booking the plane for cross- country trips ..

The 2nd week I was at UKFT ..there was one 152 available .. out of 5/6 because all the others were in maintenance. and that 152 was between myself and many others who were trying to do their PPL's .. needless to say I didnt get the plane once in a 7 day period!

The rest of the time I was there it was cancellation after cancellation of all my bookings by instructors / maintenance staff.

The FAA had been in before I arrived apparently and grounded a whole lot of a/c .. goes to show the Rainbow Air / UKFT a/c are unsafe .. a guy even had an engine failure on his first solo while I was there!!

I approached the boss of UKFT in the 3rd week and he told me if the plane wasnt available I would get a refund as they hadn't upheld their side of the deal. He then conveniently went away on a trip and I booked up slots for my final 10 days so I could get the hours up in time .. In a 10 day period I managed approx. 10 hours because of my slots being cancelled.

After talking to different members of staff on site about a refund .. it became apparent that NOBODY knew who was responsible for my refund. Rainbow Air told me to talk to UKFT ..UKFT would say it was up to Rainbow Air and eventually I was told that the policy was NO refund.
I arranged my training through UKFT but everything was done through Rainbow Air .. I dont think the staff even understand how the whole business is operated.

I never signed anything that mentioned this no refund policy and by this time it was time to come back to the UK.

Trying to contact UKFT on my return has proven to be like climbing Everest. He wants nothing to do with me and will try any tactic to blag his way out of talking.

At the monent Im still trying to contact him while he sits with over $1500 of my money in his bank account!

My CPL/IR training has been delayed because of all this disruption and cost me more money than I ever dreamed of spending on hour building due to the fact that I now have to go elsewhere to actually get my hours!

PLEASE dont trust them .. they are thieves.

[g10]

Sorry to dredge this thread up again.

Was really considering this place to do my JAA training, now reading this I think i have got to look elsewhere. Anyone with strong feelings (Good or Bad) about this place, i would love to hear more from you. Please PM me. (Got family in the area and that was going to reduce my expenses significantly !!)

Any other suggestions from folk learning out there for places in sunny california to go from ab-initio to fATPL. Or am I now destined for florida/australia to do my training.

Thanks

g10

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Over the years a great many Wannabes have considered flying training in the US or elsewhere where it can be done more cheaply. For a few it has worked and has saved some money. Rarely though does it save much under the current licensing system. A bit of hours building is as far as I would recommend taking it. And even then make sure its not just hours and hours drilling holes in the sky with your brain in neutral.

You basic training - your PPL - is but the first few rungs on a tall ladder. It is temptin to skimp on these simple rungs. That is always a mistake as the CPL training - though much more expensive and sophisticated sounding - is only really a PPL course to higher standards. A shoddy PPL course followed by some shoddy hours building is a TERRIBLE foundation for tacking the CPL/IR. Whereas PPL lessons cost less than £100hr your CPL or IR lessons can be north of £300hr.

I've suggested it many times but I would where possible complete a PPL, IMC, CPL and IR and Multi rating all with the same school at the same airfield. Going to a smaller school with a long reputation means you are a bigger customer to them and they can and will look after you. Insist on the same instructor if possible all the way through and you'll be getting a Commercial Instrument Rating Instructor doing your Effect Of Controls One and he'll likely be a very experienced instructor doing a first class job. Knowing that he is going to be trying to get you through the CPL and IR in 8 months time means from day one he can be throwing in the little extras int he early stages that will save time and money later on.

You'll be very very familiar with the local area, local ATC environment and local procedures. You'll be more friendly with the school and airfield staff because you will have been around a while. You can make a name for yourself as a smart personable young man and this may help you with those valuable early contacts inside the industry.

By comparison blatting off to some unknown school many time zones away, training under time pressure, coming back and converting to different aircraft with different instructors in a different area with different ATC and expecting to pass everything in minimum hours to realise a cash saving is really setting yourself up to fail.

I don't think its worth spening £70 - 80k on the top of the line training courses. I don't think its worth trying to scrimp and save the last £5 - £10k off the training either. There is a happy medium. Probably at an airfield not so far from where you are now.

Good luck,

WWW

[Cabin doors 2 manual]

For those that have been to UKFT recently, is the 'pay UKFT with unsigned travellers cheques scam' for tax evasion still working? I was there many years ago, my instructor was being paid with my unsigned travellers cheques right in front of me. I wonder if the IRS know about this? Anyones log book record of training would confirm for them and hopefully shut them down before someone dies.

My trip there ended with legal threats both parties each way, UK CAA involved over non air worthy aircraft (fault reports going 'missing' to avoid repair costs) and the usual rip offs and engine failures in flight you would expect from this load of crooks.

Avoid this place like the plague, ironically if they spent more time providing a proper flight training package they wouldn't have to rip people off to make ends meet.

[Muddy Boots]

I went to UKFT to try and complete my JAA PPL as I had to come back to LA for work and was bitterly disapointed, read above post.

Link and reference deleted - Scroggs

There is a lot to be said the comments made above by the Welshman in maintaining consistency in your training. I've had to change schools a couple of times during the course of my training and everytime it puts you a couple of steps back as nobody will ever just let you fly solo because you say you've done it elsewhere, they will want to check for themselves that you can do what you say you can.

I also don't believe that it's that much cheaper in the USA than the UK when you factor in food, accomodation, transatlantic flights and car hire when you probably have all that at home and can est at your Mum's. The only plus is the airports feel proper and busy with control towers and not pre-war grass strips like at Stapleford!

Muddy Boots

P.S. Don't go to UKFT!

[ME163]

Hi all,

i would like to have some informations about Rainbow Air Academy training
and your "First Officer Program" on Beech 99, Beech 1900, and Metroliner?

Thanks everyone for your replies and advice.

Best regards!

[CAPT_72]

Hello ME163. I looked into Rainbow Air about a year ago and I found that most people say it is not a good place. The Flight Instructor internship where you will be building the bulk of your hours is unpaid.:confused: I have also heard the maintenance and quiality of instruction is quite horible as well.
Do a search on www.jetcareers.com (http://www.jetcareers.com) and you will find more info.

Cheers!

[davey147]

This looks like a very good deal, I cant find any reviews of this.

I dont know what the purpose of the Citation type rating is though.

[Daniel Asplund]

Hi there!

I’m a Swedish citizen, 23years old, who have been thinking of going to the states to get my pilot license, and the more I look I realise that there’s a BIG market, and a lot of schools overseas. Anyone with any good suggestion of good schools? I was planning for the JAA PTIP with 1500h and a unfrozen ATPL at UKFT in Long Beach. But after reading on this site my mind is starting to change. Anyone out there who can give me any suggestion what school to choose instead? I will have about 88000EUR to spend on my education and of course want as many hours as possible. But of course I also what the education to be good, not only a lot of flight hours.


I’m aware of the problems with converting an FAA license to a JAA license.

Anyone who can help me with some suggestions for good schools?

//Daniel

[davey147]

You havent said which school your interested in over there. What is a JAA PTIP?

[Daniel Asplund]

Sorry! My misstake!

Was talking about UKFT... in Long Beach.

[davey147]

Well like you I am planning on getting my FAA licences first, then converting them to JAA. I know people who have done this and it is no problem.

UKFT do not offer JAA licences nor are they authised by the CAA to offer them. You can see a list of all organisations in the USA that can offer JAA licences here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF

If you study the JAA PTIP course carefully, they dont have any JAA licences included just FAA, so you would be expected to get your JAA ones on your return.

Also to work in the USA (unless you have a greencard) you will need a J-1 visa, this is a study/work visa. UKFT are not authorised to issue these either according to the USA website here http://exchanges.state.gov/jexchanges/?fuseaction=record.list&cat=14

So I ruled UKFT of my list quickly.

There are about 6-7 schools in the USA that offer JAA licences, not inluding the IR this needs to be done in your JAA state.

If you only want FAA ratings then you are better going to a school that only offers FAA ratings (they tend to be cheaper), you must check whether they are authorised to issue the M-1 visa. If you want to gain flight instructor experience, then you need a J-1 visa, there are about 4 schools where you can do this, flyaviator.com, flightsafetyinternational.com, and others.

There are many good schools over there, I can only comment on Naples Air Center as thats where ive been to get my PPL, they offer the M-1 visa, so you wouldnt be able to work there.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[mrflyby]

Hi.
I just wanted you to take a look at www.pea.com (http://www.pea.com) they have J-1 visum. And there are a small group of swedes there. And alot of norwegians. Its a good school for scandinavians, since there are scandinavian instructors who understands the need of getting done early do to the time pressure of getting the hours before the J-1 runs out. (if you are going for CFI yourself)

[potkettleblack]

Daniel - when I was training for my JAA PPL in the US a couple of the instructors who were Swedish had trained at a place called Conway in South Carolina called the North American Institute of Aviation before moving on to instruct.
Apparently it was a school that had historical ties for the Scandanavians (hence the schools was full of them) and I think used to be where SAS trained some of its cadets before that ceased. Not sure if they can issue visas though.

To emphasise a point made earlier.....If you go to one of the JAA schools in the US you will pay through the nose for the same pieces of paper than if you went to an FAA only approved school (visa hurdle to overcome of course). You will probably find much better information on US schools if you start searching on US websites and forums like landings etc. Good luck.

[Daniel Asplund]

Thanks for all info so far.

Looked at the North American Institute of Aviation but it seemed a bit boring ;) But the other places suggested are very interesting. Still have a few questions though.

1. Someone said that there is around 6-7 schools in the US that offers a JAA programme. Can anyone list all of them?
2. Is there any GOOD school that offer FAA education and that have a full programme that includes a unfrozen ATPL? (similar to the one at UKFT)
3. To get the regulation right; the M-1 is a student visa only? And J-1 is what you need if you’re going to work as a instructor?

[potkettleblack]

The UK CAA website contains a list of the approved FTO's (both in the UK and abroad). The link has been listed here many times and might even be on the sticky at the top of this forum. These schools are approved by the UK CAA and therefore your JAA licence will be issued by them. As to whether any other JAA member countries approve training outside of their own borders I am not sure although I would hazard a guess and say no.

[chrisbl]

Also to work in the USA (unless you have a greencard) you will need a J-1 visa, this is a study/work visa. UKFT are not authorised to issue these either according to the USA website here http://exchanges.state.gov/jexchanges/?fuseaction=record.list&cat=14

If you only want FAA ratings then you are better going to a school that only offers FAA ratings (they tend to be cheaper), you must check whether they are authorised to issue the M-1 visa. If you want to gain flight instructor experience, then you need a J-1 visa, there are about 4 schools where you can do this, flyaviator.com, flightsafetyinternational.com, and others.
There are many good schools over there, I can only comment on Naples Air Center as thats where ive been to get my PPL, they offer the M-1 visa, so you wouldnt be able to work there.
Hope this helps and good luck.

How many times do you have to be told that flying schools do not issue visas. Those registered with the Immigration service can only issue the paperwork (I-20) to allow you to apply for a visa. The issuing of a visa is a matter for the US Embassy/ Consulates and just because the school issues the I-20 is no guarantee that a visa will be issued.

[davey147]

Please dont confuse people. If you plan on receiving a J-1 visa, the school will never issue you a I-20, they are required for the M-1 visa.

[chrisbl]

You are the one guilty of confusing people. This is the second thread where you have wrongly stated that flying schools issue visas.

Flying schools dont issue visas. Get it? Thats the job of the visa sections in the US embassies/consulates.

Even if you have been issued with the appropriate paperwork to apply for any visa, you can still be turned down by the Visa section.

By the time you get your hands on a visa you will likely have coughed up between $200 and $250 depending on the charges from the training establishment.

I take it you have not been through the process of getting a visa otherwise you would be better informed.

[davey147]

yep ive had 5 m-1 visas and currently on a J-1. I know how it works.

[flight429]

What did you end up doing with regard to UKFT, I'm in the same boat, got to choose soon as I'm going to the states in a couple of months.

Danny

[clockworkt]

Danny I really hope this is not way to late. I went to UKFT / Raindowair in long beach and reguard it as the biggest mistake i have ever made. :ugh:
THEY ARE NOT CAA APPROVED FOR JAA TRAINING .
THEIR PLANES ARE VERY BADLY MAINTAINED
NOT ENOUGHT INSTRUCTORS.THE INSTRUCTORS THEY HAVE ARE MOSTLY
ATLP HOURS BUILDING AND ARE DOING JUST THAT AT YOUR EXPENCE
YOU PAY IN ADVANCE AND IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE YOU WILL FIND IT NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A REFUND. IF YOU CAN GET ONE AT ALL.
IF YOU WANT TO TRANSFER TO ONE OF THE OTHER GOOD SCHOOLS IN LONGBEACH
THEY WILL NOT TRANFER YOUR I-20 INSTED WILL CANCEL IT. I SEEN THIS HAPPEN TO OTHER PPL STUDENTS WHEN I WAS THERE.
THE FAA ARE IN AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK TO CHECK ON THINGS. AND GROUND PLANES
THERE ARE SO MANY PROBLEMS THERE:eek:

[newpilot83]

Clockworkt:
You've scared the hell out of me now..I am a newbie with no prior flying experience and enrolled for the Professional Pilot Programme, with UKFT - Aviation Pacific - Oxnard Airport, CA..

The course is scheduled to begin on 1st November 2007.. I have just stumbled upon this website and now wondering what the boggers should I do!!

Any advices you have for me?

[davey147]

NewPilot, didnt you do any research prior to enrolling on the course?

You must do your research, visit the schools, talk to previous students, prior to signing up for any course.

DO NOT PAY FOR ANY COURSE UPFRONT.

Its up to you what you do next, hopefully you havent paid them anything yet.

[newpilot83]

Davey,
I realize that now..I did not do my homework and trusted them blindly - maybe coz the guy in charge there sounds really positive...

Couldn't visit them or talk to pre-students since I live half way around the world (in the Middle East) and did everything online.

I've just paid the deposit of $1500 and of coz just got my M1 Visa..:sad:

[TALLBOY]

HI THOUGHT I WOULD JUST PUT MY 50 CENTS IN , I LIVE IN THE UK AND PAID TO DO MY 50HR PPL JAA ! WITH UKFT , ON ARRIVAL TO LONGBEACH REALISED THAT ITS RAINBOW AIR THAT UKFT USE FOR UR FLYING SOME KIND OF PARTNERSHIP THEY HAVE RUNNING I THINK. ANYHOW FIRST OFF, I DID NOT GET ANY TRAINING BOOKS SENT TO ME LIKE PROMISED AND PAID FOR ! 2ND I ARRIVED ON THE FRI AND NOTHING STARTED TILL MON TIME FOR ME WAS TIGHT. 3RD THE WHOLE PROGRAME (LIKE MY SPELLING) WAS POOR . POOR GROUNDSCHOOL AND IN FLIGHT WAS HURRIED JUST UNBELIVABLE. INSTRUCTORS WERE ALL DOING INTERSHIP PROGRAMS SO INSTRUCTING ME EARNED THEM HOURS WHILE I PAID FOR THE PLANE :confused:REALLY GOOD BUISNESS THEY GOT RUNNING ! OH AND THE BEST OUT OF MANY SHOCKING MOMENTS WAS MY FIRST DUAL (THANKFULLY) CROSS COUNTRY 5500FT IN THE AIR ENGINE FAIL :\ YEH INSTRUCTOR SAYS TO ME "WHAT U DONE" "AM LIKE NOTHING" SO AFTER PAN PAN ON THE RADIO ETC HE MANAGED TO LAND THE AIRCRAFT . RAINBOWAIR FLEW THERE MECHANIC OUT TO FIX THE PLANE TURNS OUT THE PLUGS HAD FOWLED WITH LEAD FROM THE FUEL ? ER MAINTENANCE!!!!! YEH THEY FIXED IT AND WE FLEW BACK I WAS CRAPPING MY SELF NEEDLESS TO SAY I DIDNT FINISH MY PPL AS AS I WAS TERRIFIED TO FLY ON MY OWN . THANKS RAINBOW AIR .....NOT

[FlyerBA]

I went to UKFT twice. Once was when it was at millionnaire north (other side by 25R) and the other at Rainbow air. Long story short, the CFI wanted money upfront and I said, I will pay as I go but, he never wanted to pay upfront.

I had to leave early and NO REFUND was given. Its Florida all the way now!

[rookieaviator]

i'm really glad i came across this thread as i just signed the application form of UKFT and was about to send the deposit which somehow was about $7k tomorrow (thnx alot all of u guys for sharing ur bad experiences)... i came across this thread be4 i know that ukft and rainbowair were somehow associated but thought the only problem was the conflict btw them n the shared facility but now i know better ... anyway what i wanted to ask is this do u happen to know any flight school that gives a course almost as good (by as good i mean close to the 1500hrs they offer for a close price) and also in the USA as i planned to do my type rating and hours on type in the USA (financialwise discussion) thanks in advance for ur help

[Cabin doors 2 manual]

rookieaviator, I wouldn't bother with any of these '1500 hour' courses. This month alone, I know 3 people offered 2 jobs each in 737s with about 300 hours TT. Your chances of getting a job is down to your interview, personality and sim ride.

[rookieaviator]

Cabin door 2 manual, well 1st of all thnx for replying but i wish it was that simple. as i live in the middle east i had to consider working for one of the airlines around here and the problem is we dont have regional or cargo airlines and they are not recruiting any 2nd officers so that leave me with the position of 1st officer which minimumly require 1000 to 1500 hours TT of which 500 hours on Type. plus considering my arabic nationality i'd not consider working for a non-arabic airline as a high possiblty so my plane comes like this : 1st to get between 500 to 1000 flying hours(for that i've choosen the OFT 1000 program which was recommeneded by a friend and would love to hear more testimonials about it and recent ones would help as they say it improved) then get 500 on type from some of the airlines that offers time building on type If anyone knows anything about that awvs that would be great, or any similer offers) thanks in advance :)

[moonym20]

RE rainbowair:
im in the local area at the moment and rainbow are still with their old reputation, i understand there have been changes with management etc but im told the feds are still keen on them, their aircraft are still all very old but its hard to say exactly what condition they are in,

LGB ATC get fustrated with them constantly... lots of go arounds/missed approaches largely as they have a massive uptake of students from the middle east and china, they send students solo who can barely string an english sentence together then ship them home by the bus load (literally!) when they are 'done' and in come another bus load of cadets, trust me there are some far better FTO's out there

over all... keep well away

[Captain_Morgan]

Ok where do I begin....

Well first let me introduce myself my name is Steven Morgan CFII & MEI, and I very unfortunately did training & even used to work (if you call being a slave without pay work) for Rainbow Air Academy in Long Beach California. I have experienced the Black Rainbow for over 2yrs...!! I know everything about the place & will be glad to tell all to anyone who has questions..

First off everything you have read here is correct missing alot more horrible stories & truths but all correctly stated. Rainbow was a halfway decent place when Dave Parsons was part owner DP is an A OK guy I have to say that cause he is. Unfortunately he is gone, long gone...

However when Ray Grimmett took complete ownership it was a quick downhill spiral from there... Ray Grimmett (Owner of Rainbow Air) is the Biggest Dirtiest Most Disshonest Dirtbag the US Aviation Industry has to offer the guy is flat out a jerk & will rob you, or his own mother blind if it makes financial since for him... DO NOT TRUST HIM EVER, PERIOD...!! I can put you in contact with dozens of Aviation industry professionals who will all give you the same response about him & his dissfunctional company. Rainbow & Ray have the worste reputation possible in the aviation community I am not kidding you when I say you would be hard pressed trying to find anyone who has anything good to say about either. Every single person who has ever had any business dealings with Ray has been screwed one way or another do not work for him do not hire his delapegated charter planes which are far from respectable king airs they are flying junk.. Basically avoid him and any of his companies like the damn plague..!!

Now here is the low down on training, it sucks.

There are NO formal ground classes, NO training aids, NO standard Syllabus, NO organization of anything, Dispatch is pointless, NO account keeping (Your Money is GONE once Paid) NO Books, NO Videos, NO Scheduling (or any that is adhered to that is) There is NOTHING accept a building, rude dispatch personel & broken P.O.S planes...

You will get maybe 10-15hrs of in-experienced ground instruction of sorts MAYBE for an entire commercial course, you will be put in 1967 AST-300 simms that DO NOT WORK for 50hrs of your training, they are total junk & everyone just turns them on & runs the time basically waisting their money..!!

You will mainly fly P.O.S 152's which some are far from airworthy & should be sent to the junkyard, Instruments Dont Work, Radios are HORRIBLE at best, Transponders Fail Always, they fly like crap and are honestly dangerous to the novice pilot...

Oh best of all your accounts are billed $150.00 for everything 152's, 172's, Piper's & the Simm, which never made since to me at first because they dont even track student account balances, but you soon realize Ray just makes sure that all the money is drained away and accounted for just incase someone ever tries to dispute anything he can show that the money was used, not to mention every instruction hour is $60 now so thats $210.00 per hr. for a 152w/instructor... Or even a Ast-300 simm thats broken...

Rental Insurance, hahahaha yeah wait until you bust up a plane which has happened oh gees 6-8 times in just the last year or so, yeah that insurance which is suppose to be included in your package funny doesnt seem to protect you in Ray's world & he will try & charge you for damages to the tune of $10,000-$20,000 and if you dont or cant pay simple your kicked out no money refunded.. Actually quite frankly RAY never pays out money to anyone HE HAS NEVER ISSUED A REFUND and never will your money is gone as soon as you pay it, period.

Rainbow a 141 certified school approved by the JAA or CAA, that is simply a joke honestly THERE IS NO JAA or CAA compliance never has been there is NO conversion program never has been, that conversion program consists of see-ya go home & figure it out oh and goodluck... Nobody there even knows what JAA or CAA stands for. The 141 cert. now this is one thing I cant figure out cause Rainbow Air has been out of regulations for 141 certification for over 2yrs, they garduate no-one under 141 rules, there is NO 141 syllabus, there is NO Chief Pilot, No Approved Aircraft 136RJ was the only approved 141 aircraft previously, however if it were inspected today it would fail misserably, they absolutely 100% positively DO NOT ADHERE to NOR MEET 141 guidelines, the only thing I can figure is Gary Lackey aka head of KLGB FAA FSDO is buddies with Ray & has for several years now overlooked all of the problems due to this & has not pursued proper courses against Rainbow Air.

The Aircraft, simply P.O.S (Piece of ****)... NONE of their planes are any good, they are all well over T.B.O times and I mean by like 100's-1000's of hours past overhaul reccomendation times, the instruments are all junk, the radios are barely readable & very dangerous as communications are next to impossible... Nothing is standardized every plane has a different set-up, some planes such as 181RJ are not even airworthy but still on the flight line ready to be rented.. I had a plane 130RJ Piper Warrior catch fire in mid-air on me I mean tottally engulphed in flames (Look it Up on NTSB website) luckily I was close to Redlands airport & was able to make a safe emrgency landing, VERY LUCKY... The plane proceeded to Burn to a Crisp.. The final outcome besides having an un-athorized experimental fuel pump installed the carburator had failed (Very Unussual) spraying fuel into the hot engine compartment catching and ignition source & presto burning plane while flying.. Oh it gets better when I called the office after dealing with the fire department, the NTSB and the FAA feild rep MYSELF.. I was not only rudely talked to by Ray cause he was upset because I followed the letter of the law & reported it immeadiattely to the NTSB, but when I tried to get a plane sent out to pick me & my student up to bring us back we were told NO Rainbow is not in the business of supplying air taxi's call a cab or friend to pick you up, we were a 3hr.+ drive away from home base, yeah no im serious we where told to pay for a what $500 cab ride. Needless to say one of my fellow instructors dissobeyed & came and got us in a plane, but that was Ray's response after we where almost killed by his unsafe aircraft, take a cab...!


MORE TO COME ALOT MORE...

[Captain_Morgan]

Cabin Doors, or Daniel or anyone who wants to know more about Rainbow contact me directly at [email protected]

I am a former student and also employee of Rainbow Air Academy...

THEY NEED TO BE SHUTDOWN ASAP..!!

AND I NEED HELP LETTERS SENT EMAILED HOWEVER TO THE OKALHOMA CITY OFFICE OF THE FAA do not send them to Long Beach FSDO they are worthless...!! Send them directly to OKLAHOMA...

Please help shutdown Rainbow before more people are scammed..!!

Also if you have been ripped off by them there is quite possibly a Class Action Lawsuit being developed rigth now, we need contact info & a brief descirption of what has happened & any proof or eveidence you may have available (dont send it just describe it) I am perosnally trying to develop a class action suit against Ray Grimmett & Rainbow Air Academy, I do have a very very high power Attorney looking at the case & he is going to try & build enough people to get a class action suit going & put Ray out of business for good.. He owes me around $20,000+ dollars & I know of atleast 5-6 others currently in the same boat.. We all need your help to join together & sue the pants off this dirtbag.

If your just a concerned aviator then again PLEASE write to Oklahoma City FAA office requesting a thourough inspection of Rainbow By Oklahoma City personnel, also write TSA they are out of TSA compliance too.. Write the CA State Labor Board they violate labor laws daily by having foriegners perform employment duties & also the INTERNSHIP program IS NOT VALID nor is it State or Federally authorized & therefore highly illegal in the united states..... Just please take 15min & write some regulatory bodies the more letters the better the chances of someone waking up..!!!

Sincerly
Steven Morgan

[airlineboy75]

hello all.....just a very quick follow up point to Capt Morgan....i worked @ rainbow air and ukft as a flight instructor sometime ago...and will soon be posting a full account of the things i know and have seen...

To all you prospective students esspecially from INDIA....dont bother with UKFT ..... once you have paid that money you mean nothing to the owner Mr Sinha.....just another sucker who has topped up his bank account.

Sorry to hear about your experiences Steve and i hope you carry on the flying elsewhere....i had to deal with it alot longer than you.

Please dont make the mistake of UKFT and ficticious programs....

Ill be posting in better depth soon....ciao

[mjlewis06]

Captain Morgan, please keep updated with your progress of suing that bastard Ray Grimmet.

I went to Rainbow in August 07 to complete my CPL/ME and 100hours 172 time after I already completed my PPL there in October 2006. I don't know why I went back after a reasonably bad experience with the PPL> perhaps because my friend was there, which after I paid a deposit came home after being screwed over too many times.

Anways...I was told I had to sort my own multi engine rating by discussing it with an instructor, which I could cope with. I then flew a few hours, before getting pissed off enough to undertake my IR with AFT(Accelerated Flight Training - which is a private 1 to 1 organisation using California FLight Centres **BRAND NEW WELL MAINTAINED* aircraft). At this point I was still giving Rainbow a chance for multi cpl and 100 hours hour building! untill I found out their multi wasn't operating. so I nagged AFT again that I might want to do this with them, although my VISA was with rainbow (they advised they are part 62 which does not require a visa - which today I am still unsure about). so I called up whilst having a day off from IR to book some hour building they said "okay hold one minute"...i held untill the receptionist came back and said "if you want to fly you have to give us the whole amount - which was somthing stupid like $14,000 for the multi course and building. After my friend now back in the UK said "DONT GIVE RAY ANY MONEY UP FRONT" I said NO WAY JOSE I will pay by the hour..to which I got "please hold" which I did and as expected it was a big fat "RAY SAID NO" so I asked "can I keep a credit of 1000 dollar on file as I go along. I got another please hold. :ugh:so I did... and I got another now. I then wanted to speak to ray which I was advised email to email dirty bastard ray grimhole. I got straight on the old email machine and contacted Ray to beg him to take my offer of a small credit system...2 days later I gt a reply saying somthing to the effect of "you are unwilling to comply with want we want If you cannot pay the full sum I am cancelling your VISA". Immediately I got back and was like hell no give me a few days to get the money (stall tactic as prior to my reply I phoned my friend who had been threatened this and potentially meant I need to get the **** out of the US fast).. I then completed my IR and booked a flight home replied relatively nicely advising Ray I am leaving and expect a full refund....

I send several emails back and forward which which in a nutshell was he saying he would not give a refund about £700 demanding my money back...to which I am still awaiting a reply as he did not state any terms and conditions and I think I am entitled to the money I did pay to them back.

As to what I know rainbow was being bought out by an Indian Man. Not only that Rainbow was swarming with students at the amount where there was nowhere near enough aircraft to accomodate these...neither was there any airworthy aircraft for them.

Oh and another thing a lot of the good examiners have started to refuse taking rainbow students for check rides...so you could do your training and find nobody will fly with you untill you fly somewhere else.

TO anybody considering doing thier training in the States I recommend Accelerated Flight Training. If you google them you will find their website...they do exactly what they say on the tin. You want IR in 10 days you WILL get it (I did 10 days bang on) Multi engine in 5-8...I would have if I didn't **** up the oral check ride! They are very professional and is one a one to one basis. Commercial is about 14 days..they are a bit more expensive than rainbow but in the long run is cheaper as you save on accomodation costs and you also get bran new aircraft 2004 and newer....MUCH MUCH MUCH friendlier service (more so that grumpy rainbow staff).

Sorry to rad your bad experience about Rainbow Steve, but please let me know of any updates about a lawsuit with Ray. I will gladly provide you with assisstance if you require.

Happy Flying

Mat

[airlineboy75]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=314887&highlight=RAINBOW+UKFT