Do I seriously need to worry.....

[St. Giles]

Graduated from a flying school integrated course 8 months ago with Frozen ATPL. First time passes on all ATPL ground theory subjects with more than 90% average. First time passes on all flying checks (e.g. CPL etc) except IR (passed it series one, attempt two).

However, I still have not got any job offer, not even an interview opportunity.

Are there anyone who are similar to my situation (ie, not able to obtain any interview or job offer so long after obtaining F.ATPL) or should I seriously worry about my situation........?:uhoh:

I'd appreciate for any relevant inputs or replies speaking from experience.....

Thank you

[geordiejet]

What kind of jobs whave you been applying for? And who with? Just out of interest.

[St. Giles]

The usual lots..

Loganair, Flybe, Jet2, Southwest, Highland, or Cega etc....

[UAV689]

get an instructor rating, glider towing, anything to stay current!

[bermudatriangle]

Sadly,join the club.do anything to build your hours and keep applying,but don't expect a jet job for a good while yet.But good luck !

[WX Man]

Where did you do your course?

I went to a talk given to some integrated school grads the other day given my everyone's favourite FlyBe representative, and he said that anyone interested in working for FlyBe should NOT fill in the online application form. Rather they should talk to the school's recruitment coordinator.

This at the time FlyBe were closing their online application form because they had received so many applications....

[pimo]

Every 10 pilots there 8 non pilots(europe).

someone has to have a non flying job.

You have 45% possibility to fail completly.

But don't worry there are other jobs out there......

[EGBKFLYER]

My CV is identical to yours but I finished 18 months ago...

There is oversupply at our end of the market so you have to be lucky or have a plan. I know which I prefer.;)

The comment about keeping current is true. You have to do something to lift yourself out of the newbie pile. Instruct, tow banners or gliders - do anything that gives you some more hours and some more experience. Sorting that out will keep you busy enough! As your hours increase, keep applying and building your network of contacts. Most of all, keep planning what to do next to get to your goal. You have to make it happen.

Good luck.:ok:

[SBAB]

Hi,

I have had the same, graduated in July 2005 from an integrated course. Must have applied to almost every operator in Europe. So far only 1 interview in Germany, didn't get through due to the language (lack of technical German knowledge).

Indeed best way is to keep building your hours, I am currently doing sightseeing flights and photo flights in the weekends. And keep sending out your C.V, call, email (built that network).

The best of luck to all out there,

SBAB

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Get an ops/dispatch job (and keep flying at weekends with para-drops, photograhpy, etc). It will pay poorly, but will allow you to network your way into a right hand seat.

P

[Addy]

same thing here, first pass on everything, did instructing and managed to get over 600 hrs.
sent out applications worldwide but especially in europe, over 600 applications

outcome: 0 interviews

[A320rider]

same thing for me....first pass for IR/CPL.
over 18 months of research. nothing!
airlines receive 1500 CV each time they adverstise.

Keep looking!

[GFYA]

Q: Do I need to worry?

Ans: No.

Forgive me St. Giles, but looking for a flying job for 8 months isn't long. Your qualifications, averages, etc are all very good successes however you must remember that there has been very little recruitment over the past three or four years. You are swimming in a crowded pool.

Granted there are people out there who've been looking for less time than yourself and may have landed a job but they are very few and far between in my opinion. As an instructor, I've continued to build my hours, experience and crucially my contacts all with a view to achieving the goal of landing that job. What I've also done is seen the previous few years students come back in to the school for IR renewals having not flown significantly since the last renewal. For me, it has only JUST payed off after several years.

Best advice I can give. Keep flying in some context, keep building experience and qualifications. Whilst I don't expect you'll be waiting four years with the market becoming more bouyant by the day, you may be waiting a little while longer. You may get a phone call on monday for that matter, but worrying will get you no closer to the top of the pile. Keep plugging away at it.

Best of luck.

GFYA

[Wheelon-Wheeloff.]

There are a million different theorys on the best way to make yourself attractive to the airlines so I can only tell you what I did.

After finishing college and at about the same point in time that you are at, I blagged another few quid off the Bank Manager and got myself an Instructors Rating. I instructed for about 9 months, got my MCC, and spoke to the then CP (Iain Huzzard) from Loganair at the BALPA Jobs Conference. Got an interview a couple of weeks later after resubmitting my CV to them.

Whether it was the Instructing, they seemed very happy with the fact that I had instructed, or the jobs conference, when everyone else was off trying to speak to the Easyjet man, I don't know. What I do know is that it took me about 20 months in total to get that first job, at the time that seemed about average amongst my mates (97 - 99).

It's one of the worst things i've had to go through so I know where you're coming from, but you'll get there in the end if you keep trying.

The other thing to bear in mind is that instructing seems to get some bad press. I loved it ,although I admit 9 months is maybe not enough time to get fed up with it, but it definately made me more confident in the cockpit and made me a better pilot.

Cheers

W-W

[dlav]

May I ask what Integrated course you graduated from?

[rmcdonal]

Is it actualy possible to get straight into the RH seat of a Regional Airline in the UK/EU straight out of flying school? Wow. Im in the wrong country.

[scroggs]

For a lucky few, it's entirely possible to get straight into the RHS of a B757 on graduation from flight school. Many will go straight to a B737 or A320. However, there will be many more who don't! You still have to be lucky - and you have to understand that you are missing out on a great deal of good flying by going straight to a modern jet. In an ideal world there would be a more structured (and fun) route to jet flying, but that's not how the market works. Still, those who do manage to go via the 'traditional' route of FI, air-taxi, commuter and then jet will have more fun on the way than those who go straight to a 320 or 738, and will not regret their choice when the time comes for bar-room story-telling in their twilight years!

Scroggs

[Megaton]

GFYA,

Sorry to disagree but recruitment over the last 12 months or so has been plentiful compared with the 2-3 years before that. Look at all the threads running which discuss how long one might spend in the hold pool or which airlines charge for type-ratings. Two years ago you couldn't even buy a job whereas now, for the lucky few, some jet jobs are even available straight from training. With BA now recruiting, there will be a scurry of applications coming from pilots in the second/third tier operations which is good news for the wannabes.

The devil, however, is in the detail. Although there is (relatively speaking) plenty of recruitment, the competition at the lower end of the experience scale is still intense. Some of the airlines are still using the hold pool as a means of attracting the better candidates until they have vacancies in their type-rating courses; however, inevitably, this often means that the more "attractive" candidates might be in one or more pools or even have several job offers. The obvious consequence of this situation is that some airlines delude themselves about the success of their recruitment campaigns.

For all that I've said above, I still wouldn't be unduly worried if I'd had no job offer several mmonths after completing training. Luck, and the recruitment cycle, have a large part to play and although I can't really explain why it appears that you can apply for months on end without success and then, like buses, several interviews will come along at once. I guess that whatever market forces make you attractive to one airline applies to their competitors.

The advice above is good though. Stay as current as you can and keep plugging away.

Good luck one and all,

HP

[EGBKFLYER]

Scroggs:ok:

With all the pressure to pay back loans and get that all-important first job, I think some of us are forgetting the fun element. I'm certainly hoping I can have a go at the FI/ air taxi etc path - much more exciting even if it's not as well paid...

[WX Man]

Scroggs:ok:
With all the pressure to pay back loans and get that all-important first job, I think some of us are forgetting the fun element. I'm certainly hoping I can have a go at the FI/ air taxi etc path - much more exciting even if it's not as well paid...

Well if you get an B737 job as your first job- I'll swap! :D

[Send Clowns]

Scroggs and EGBK right. In my first month of light charter I had a remarkable number of stories, and from the start have absolutely loved it!

Problem is some operators won't take integrated graduates, and you need 700 hours.

[EGBKFLYER]

:D About time someone positively discriminated in favour of us untouchable modulars!!!:ok: :p

[stefair]

A pilot, himself being a captain and author of a well-known book on aviation in the UK, has recently told me of all of the pilots he had met over the years, who had gotten there at the end because they had sticked to their dreams and kept current ... including himself! It's only a matter of how you go about your goal. Do not make the mistake and focus merely on the big boys, rather look into the jobs where only little experience is required. The key is to get a foot into the door and build yourself the network. If you are good at what you do and bring along the personality you will land that one job, sooner or later. Everyone who wants to succeed in this business has to be willing to start off low in order to get to the -- literally -- very top! Don't give up and best of luck to you! :ok:

[raviolis]

I know it might sound petty and obvious but..
when flying as a passenger, I'd rather be in the hands of someone who's been flying for 10 years on all sorts of planes, than someone who's been doing it for 12 months in a simulator !
Also true is that you got to start somewhere and it can't be a simulator forever !

I know that it's not all about the quantity of experience, but much depends on the quality of it, but I guess the same old story of not putting a newly licensed driver in a racing car will apply to a certain extent to the flying machines too !

Q : if instead of 737NG's and A320s we were still hopping on 707s and DC8's, do you think airlines would put freshly graduated cadets on the right hand seats, or they would first send them to clock a few hours on Twin Otters delivering newspapers to the Shetland population ? :-)

with regards

[rmcdonal]

I likethe way you think scroggs :ok: Flying the lighter stuff is lots of fun (especialy were I am) and the experiance you gain from doing it far outweighs the 3-4 years you missed out on Flying the big stuff.

[Snigs]

fATPL Sept 2001, first commercial job in Feb 2005. Be patient, just stay current.

[sicky]

If you don't mind me asking, for those who have spent months without work, but had a loan, how did you manage the repayments on the loan, without work? I've heard of monthly payments towards the loan being around the £800 mark, and i can't imagine it being easy to find a job bringing that much in every month.

[captwannabe]

I imagine that the Bank of Mum and Dad is financing a lot of the younger wannabes. :ok:

[sicky]

It does seem that way. I'd appreciate some sort of guidance on the issue from somebody though, pretty please? :D