Sea King stuck in the mountains [Archive]

ukatco_535

28th Feb 2006, 08:12

Excellent work by both the crew and the Mountain Rescue Team in what seems to have been very testing conditions - Not easy to dead lift a person down a mountain :ok:

Southside

I agree with you about keeping the Mil SAR capability, but as an ex navy flyer and a keen wanderer through the hills and mountains myself, I believe that some sort of insurance should be carried by people who venture out. If nothing else, it will put a little money back in the coffers.

The difficulty will be addressing who should take out the insurance - the serious climber/walker with all the right gear (tho they are more likely to be willing to insure themselves agianst rescue), or the muppet who goes onto the mountain in niks and flip flops?

ShyTorque

28th Feb 2006, 08:15

Good on 'em for doing their best. Not often that wx conditions cause a crew to walk home.....

Helicopter crews ARE usually very well clued up on what they need to wear. They are actually out in the weather with the doors open, not sat in a crewroom / HAS and then bussed to a comfy bang seat with aircon and then back again afterwards.... ;)

Southside,
Presumably, the new "Eric" S-92 will have heated blades (RIPS) so the "Erics" might well be able to complete a mission in icing conditions! This is actually a classic example of a reason to re-equip, not a reason to have a go at the civvies (some of whom who might actually be ex-mil in any case).

Do Sea King crews carry parachutes these days :confused: ? :E

Dillon the dog

28th Feb 2006, 08:16

Good story but once again this shows why we should keep a military SAR capibility, These fellas stuck their necks on the line in the $hittie$t conditions and all for a bloke with a knackered ankle. I'd like to see the Eric's have a go at that one.

I'd like to meet the cats eyes winchman who noticed ice on the blades but as the journo says, never let the truth get in the way of a good dit.

Good on ya fellas, Good work and I hope the bar was open when you got back home.

Surely the most important thing for a SAR captain is knowing when to say no? Ultimately they were sensible to land and shut down, but to quote this as a case of why we need military SAR is not logical Mr Spock.

The "Erics" at Stornoway do overland SAR in the mountains, but most of the MCA's SAR work is maritime, otherwise the MCA would not be called the MCA - the clue is in the title:ok: .

2ndclasscitizen

28th Feb 2006, 11:01

Southside-Just a broken ankle?
If he can't walk on it in that sort of weather and temprature then it is a life threatening injury. And the number of times I've seen a 60 yr old with a twisted ankle turn out to be a 35 yr old with a broken arm...:confused:

JTIDS

28th Feb 2006, 15:22

As a matter of interest the SAR crews all qualify for the "Pro-Boots" which are quite good for walking off hills.
Untill recently the front enders also used to be able to get hold of Scarpa mountain boots, which were of course ideal for walking off hills like this. Now though only the chaps in the back get issued them, after all, why would the pilots ever need them?:hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

On the question of people taking out insurance when they go up in the hills, and possibly charging for being rescued, I would have to think that this would be a bad idea. Currently people can call early as soon as they get into trouble. If they think they might be charged, they'll leave it till the last minute when things are really bad, and the rescue becomes that much more difficult.

southside

28th Feb 2006, 15:26

My point was that these guys risked life and limb for this fellas broken ankle. They launched in $hitty weather, howling gales, snow, sleet,freezing level around their ankles and they did it to save life....not for the glory or the good of their health. Good on ya fellas. Im proud of you even if this lot arn't

BossEyed

28th Feb 2006, 18:28

Im proud of you even if this lot arn't

Must be reading a different thread to me, Mr Side. (Not the first time I've thought that about one of your posts).

<Doffs hat to SAR crews everywhere>. :ok:

ShyTorque

28th Feb 2006, 19:02

"Good on ya fellas. Im proud of you even if this lot arn't"

Which lot would that be then? Did anyone say that? If so, the post must have been deleted.

Is it just me, or....... :rolleyes:

Brit55

28th Feb 2006, 19:07

Good effort guys,

good to see that 'pressonitis' is a condition we are seeing less and less of. :ok:

JTIDS

28th Feb 2006, 19:56

There's always one!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SAR-Seaking_W0QQitemZ4617577984QQcategoryZ32635QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI tem

Tourist

28th Feb 2006, 20:27

V funny.:ok:

Climebear

28th Feb 2006, 21:04

Looks like Kinloss MRT managed the rescue with the local civilian team. I guess the MRT also provided the aircraft guard. More strength to the claim that the RAF MRS is the RAF's only all weather rescue service;)

Seriously, good job by everyone involved both MRTs and 202 Sqn :ok:

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 07:54

It's still there, and if the met outside my house this morning is anything to go by it's going to be there for a while.

Today's Braemar Beano (aka The Aberdeen Press & Journal) has a brilliant shot on the front page of the stranded chopper, taken by an intrepid reporter who trekked the two miles from the ski centre car park to the location. Unfortunately the photo's not yet up on their web site, but the link is http://www.thisisaberdeen.co.uk/. Judging by the photo I don't think they are going to be able to de-ice it safely enough to get it serviceable. What bets on a Chinook lifting it out? Would that be feasible? Kinlosss MRT are still on guard, well done to them as it can't be much fun up there in these conditions.

If I remember correctly, the last time a chopper was forced down in this area was early 1977 (Jan/Feb) in similar conditions. The type then was a civvi Jet Ranger and the pilot put down on the only available flat ground. It turned out to be a frozen loch, Loch Avon, approx 2 miles SE of current location. A couple of days later a recovery op was carried out. It was airlifted from the site by, guess what, a Sea King from Lossie! What are the chances of today's stuck chopper being the same airframe from 29 years ago?

Bismark

1st Mar 2006, 08:11

Why not send in the Junglies to fix it - after all they are trained to operate and maintain their Seakings in the arctic?

Tourist

1st Mar 2006, 08:42

Not a bad plan actually.
Plus it would be a great oportunity for some inter service banter/PR.
The problem is that once the ice is on, its a bugger to get it off.

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 08:58

The problem is that once the ice is on, its a bugger to get it off.

Correct, Tourist, as you'll see if you get to see the photo. The ice up there is industrial strength. With low ambient temperatures, windchill and precipitation it doesn't take long for several feet of clear blue to form. In my opinion very difficult to get off the frame safely, certainly not with an ice axe, maybe needs specialist help. However, to my original question, would it be feasible for the whole thing simply to be airlifted out when weather improves?

Abraham Zapruder

1st Mar 2006, 09:23

At least the SAR bird at Gannet had the decency to be near a road when it had to RTB with a little help!

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/rab-knight/Rescue117.jpg

Full story; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4728170.stm

Abe

PS The Scottish Flag on the nose is also used as a maritime flag to indicate "I am stopped" - how apt! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 11:51

http://www.ukdivers.com/images/MarFlags/f.gifhttp://www.ukdivers.com/images/MarFlags/v.gif

If you want to get nautical, above two of the the flags I'm sure D Flt Crew have seen a few times in course of work. Both would apply to their current situation.

SW

Tourist

1st Mar 2006, 12:30

Just wait a bit till the temp is above zero, quick BF, fly it out.
Or alternatively, plenty of SKs have been loadlifted before

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 14:04

Temp will get above zero in, er, April. My money's on the load lift, if we can scare up a Chinook, just as happened when recovering Gp Capt Al Hudson's Jag in October 1999 from the Moray Firth just off Lossie.

str12

1st Mar 2006, 14:24

Get some of the SHAR/GR9 boys to hover over it for a while, that'll defrost it! :E

teeteringhead

1st Mar 2006, 14:43

Get some of the SHAR/GR9 boys to hover over it for a while, that'll defrost it! :EClock's running .....

...how long before WEBF comes along to tell us the SHAR is much better than the GR9 at defrosting Sea Kings so we shouldn't scrap it ......;)

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 14:49

str12, it's a great idea, not sure how practical though, they'd have to find it first (ouch!). We could have the MR boys line up and point to it.

Beeb Scotland website's now reporting it mught be next week before a "heating kit" can be brought up from down south to do the job. My guess is by then it'll be gone completely under a 30ft snowdrift. If it's still there on Saturday I'm going to take a walk up to see it myself. We could have a new visitor attraction here, complete with Cairngorm Funicular Railway and ospreys at Loch Garten, the stranded sneeking.

wub

1st Mar 2006, 15:06

Use a Chinook to load lift it you say....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4762350.stm

station workshops

1st Mar 2006, 16:45

Ho hum wub. However, not many flying rats in the Cairngorms this time of year so low risk. Hope they don't leave it too long, though, as the low flyers will soon prove a separate and more realistic threat in the green mountains, until the annual August 12th annhilation commences.

Foobar

1st Mar 2006, 16:55

Good effort guys,
good to see that 'pressonitis' is a condition we are seeing less and less of. :ok:

But isn't that exactly why they ended up there?

Duck and cover:eek: !

southside

1st Mar 2006, 16:57

Gawds struth it must be a slow news day. How many Bird strikes do we suffer each year...? Why has this one made it into the news? These happen all the time. Ive had lots of them...Went through a flock once and managed to splash 6 in a oner...that made the adrenilin flow...

Bo Nalls

1st Mar 2006, 17:10

http://195.234.240.231/shared/contentbinaries/publish/718522.jpg

Picture taken from the link mentioned earlier by SW. Looks a tad chilly up there :eek:

SAR Bloke

1st Mar 2006, 21:03

Just to clarify a few points to all you doubters!!!

The incident was not the result of 'pressonitis'. The crew were caught by a sudden and particularly nasty snow shower reducing visibility to very little.

The winchman had already been deployed and stayed with the casualty, in those conditions, giving medical assistance for several hours.

Heated blades would not have helped. The aircraft was landed due to poor visibility and not icing. The crew stayed rotors running on the ground for a long time, waiting for a break in the weather so they could depart. Visibility during this time ranged from the rotor tip to about 200m at best. Only after this considerable period did the crew shut down. By this stage icing had become a problem.

Junglie/JHC heating kit is on it's way. We are not too proud to ask for help when it's needed and help has been cascading in to us.

If someone can tell me how to lift an aircraft out of that position then please PM me. Bear in mind all the blades will have to come off first. If the weather is good enough to do that then it will be good enough to fly out. At the moment the aircraft is fully serviceable (just a bit cold). However, lifting specialists are also on their way up and a Chinook is standing by to help if needed.

If anyone is considering taking a walk up to look at it then DON'T. Kinloss MRT are guarding it at considerable risk to themselves. Snow is up to neck level in places and it is currently avalanche risk 4 (out of 5). We are extremely concerned about 'rubber neckers' and if the aircraft is still there at the weekend I would not be suprised if there is another rescue to recover ill prepared walkers.

Thanks to Cairngorm MRT and Kinloss MRT who have been absolutely first class in looking after the guys (and girls) and the aircraft. :) We owe you one.

tug3

1st Mar 2006, 23:09

SAR-B

You'll be picking up the bar tab at the 'Coylumbridge' then?

Rgds
T3
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/ernaehrung/food-smiley-004.gif

Onan the Clumsy

2nd Mar 2006, 00:38

Use a Chinook to load lift it you say....
Have you seen the pictures of the car that went into the harbour so they got a crane to lift it out. THen that crane fell in too, so they had to get another, and another...:ooh:

The Nr Fairy

2nd Mar 2006, 04:41

Onan:

You mean the photoshopped ones ? Yup - seen them.

BossEyed

2nd Mar 2006, 09:45

Only the third crane was Photoshopped in. Talk about over-egging a pudding...

Rigga

2nd Mar 2006, 11:43

I seem to remember a Chinook lifting a Chinook from the top of a high hill in Hampshire back to Odiham (1986/7) - so why not a little SK from a high perch in Scotland?

oldbeefer

2nd Mar 2006, 17:38

Update here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4768116.stm

scottishbeefer

2nd Mar 2006, 18:05

A Chinook lifted the Gannet cab from Langdale after they'd strimmed the hill top in May 04. No worries until they dropped it back at Prestwick when the 'King rolled off down dispersal. Forgotten to put the brakes on!

cyclic

2nd Mar 2006, 18:21

The RAF Kinloss Mountain Rescue Team has set up camp at the scene to guard against trophy hunters or anyone trying to start up the helicopter

I hope that the "starters" have more luck than most of the crews have! :uhoh:

Did I see it following the A90 this afternoon with a very black streak (not brown) down the side?

Thud_and_Blunder

2nd Mar 2006, 19:08

JunglyAEO,

That use of a Queen Mary sounds like a good idea - in 1998 I had a task involving lifting a tip-struck Eric S61 from 11nm N of Ullapool and taking it all the way back to Aberdeen. Took 4h 30m, including a div to Lossie with a chip light - an S61 completely de-fuelled and de-roled will only travel at 15-25kts underslung. The Bristows Chf Eng left the pickup site after we did, drove back to Dyce and was there on dispersal to greet us. We only just made it in before the haar arrived.

Abraham Zapruder

2nd Mar 2006, 19:25

Looks a bit bloody chilly!..

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41395000/jpg/_41395632_seaking416300.jpg

JessTheDog

2nd Mar 2006, 19:29

I agree with you about keeping the Mil SAR capability, but as an ex navy flyer and a keen wanderer through the hills and mountains myself, I believe that some sort of insurance should be carried by people who venture out. If nothing else, it will put a little money back in the coffers.

The difficulty will be addressing who should take out the insurance - the serious climber/walker with all the right gear (tho they are more likely to be willing to insure themselves agianst rescue), or the muppet who goes onto the mountain in niks and flip flops?

Why don't climbing and walking suppliers offer the opportunity to make a voluntary (say 5p) donation for every purchase, donated to mountain rescue? You could flog little climbing-rope style metal badges as well. The RAF volunteer teams work and train extremely hard, and I am sure the civilian teams could do with the cash for equipment.

SAR Bloke

2nd Mar 2006, 19:43

I seem to remember a Chinook lifting a Chinook from the top of a high hill in Hampshire back to Odiham (1986/7) - so why not a little SK from a high perch in Scotland?

Location, Location, Location!!!

Did I see it following the A90 this afternoon with a very black streak (not brown) down the side?

The cab you saw was coming up to help with the recovery. Nearly there now, just waiting for the weather:(

Sven Sixtoo

2nd Mar 2006, 20:55

Just thinking out loud...

When it was shutdown lots of bits that rotate were hot. So the snow melted on them. It's been cold for 5 days now. Where has all that melted snow run to before it froze again?

Like, in the photo there seems to be snow, and no blanks, in the exhausts. What got in the bottom of the power turbines before a full set of covers was provided?

Navy chaps, experience of shutting down and leaving aircraft in the cold? What can go wrong?

Sven

southside

2nd Mar 2006, 23:57

Jungly AEO will tell ya.......

...where are ya fella.

Im a little surprised they havent put the covers on it? Do you RAF SK guys have the big thermal blankets that the RN guys have?

neilmac

3rd Mar 2006, 00:10

Funny old thing, ive been mostly on the Jag det site that made the.......... wont even mention the scum, eh do they ever go on about our SAR lads......................mmm think not endangering ur life doesnt count !! spending a few pounds well thats top story!!
Glad SAR boys got out ok!

Kluseau

3rd Mar 2006, 08:21

Why don't climbing and walking suppliers offer the opportunity to make a voluntary (say 5p) donation for every purchase, donated to mountain rescue? You could flog little climbing-rope style metal badges as well. The RAF volunteer teams work and train extremely hard, and I am sure the civilian teams could do with the cash for equipment.

This would be a better way than requiring insurance, but still (literally) not foolproof.

The government looked at charging for SAR in 1982, and probably since. Any approach you care to name falls over on some serious imponderables.

The main one is that there are four core elements to the funding of UK SAR (taking maritime and mountain together): those funded by MoD (choppers, MRTs, Nimrods and coordination); those funded by the MCA (coastguards, some choppers, coordination); the RNLI, a charity; and civilian MRTs, effectivley charities too.

What do you try to charge for? If you assume that the MoD funded elements are there to recover ditched or mountain-bound flyers, then it is arguable that they have to exist anyway, and what they do most of the time - eg lifting ill equipped civilians off Ben Nevis or ill equipped sailors off rocks - is highly valuable training for their real role. Likewise the military MRTs.

Coastguards and other MCA funded elements (eg some choppers) could arguably be charged for at the point of delivery. Presumably if someone doesn't have the required insurance or the appropriate credit card, they are left to die... Hardly likely to help win the next election. Added to this is the sense that those most likely to call on the rescue services are those least likely to have the required insurance (or decent clothing, boots, maps or charts, compass etc etc). Then there's the new bureaucracy needed to work out what charges are needed, send out the bills, chase the defaulters etc etc. It doesn't look like a sure fire money spinner.

And that's all before you get to the really difficult bit of the problem. The lifeboats and the civilian MRTs are manned by volunteers and funded by donations, so come at no cost to the government anyway, so you can't charge for those.

And if you did start to charge for any element of the service, how soon before the public stopped contributing to the RNLI and civilian MRTs, leaving a huge new funding gap?

However you try to look at this, and however odd the current arrangements, any moves towards charging for any element of SAR, towards requiring insurance, towards changing the current funding elements could all too easily end up with the effective destruction of vital parts of the infrastructure (the voluntary bits) and huge extra costs to government as it has to pay for the replacement.

The current system is a bizarre one, but it isnt broken: so serious caution is advised before trying to fix it!

cyclic

3rd Mar 2006, 09:32

Jungly

How would they get a gust lock on in a coire filled with boulders, in the dark with no steps? It isn't quite the same as Norway when you shutdown for the night. The Mk3 is already tight for power so carrying artic covers is a little over the top for one unplanned event in the last few years. They used to carry blanks but securing them in 60kts of wind may have been a problem. Perhaps the athletic jungly aircrew can leap around the frozen transmission decking with gay abandon but the knackered old SAR boys can't :)

southside

3rd Mar 2006, 15:02

OK.... simple engineering for beggineeeeeers.

How would they get a gust lock on Largest pilot bends down and smallest pilot climbs onto largest pilots shoulders. Tallest aircrew then hands gust lock to smallest pilot who applys gust lock to T/R.

the Mk3 is already tight for power so carrying artic covers is a little over the topEspecially as they weigh nearly 5Lbs.

They used to carry blanks but securing them in 60kts of wind may have been a problem. Perhaps the athletic jungly aircrew can leap around the frozen transmission decking with gay abandon but the knackered old SAR boys can't Are they not in the Armed Forces then? Do they not need to conduct annual fitness training? Are you telling me that the sort of Aircrew we are employing are too knackered to get up onto the ECU platform and put a blank in...? How do they check the oil and conduct dips and check the pop up filters and all the other engine checks?

The Swinging Monkey

3rd Mar 2006, 15:25

Cyclic,

What do you mean by your comment 'the knackered old SAR boys can't' ???
As an (ex) SAR crewman I would ask you to explain yourself Sir!

And what is all this nonesence about the HAR3 being tight for power and unable to carry the blanks??
I'm afraid you are talking utter tosh my dear chap.
How comes we can lift a load of fishermen off atrawler, but can't carry the weight of the blanks??............silly boy!

I would suggest you all listen to SAR bloke, who is clearly current on the mighty yellow egg whisk. I only wish I was still back there with them now - Happy, happy days.
Kind regards to all SAR Boys and Girls.
TSM

engineer(retard)

3rd Mar 2006, 15:34

"Just a thought - how well equipped will your gingers be to go out (and stay out) in those conditions"

Jungly its been done many times on winter crash crews up there, I did my first one of four in the 80s, although it would be hard to describe the kit as uniform. Most of us bought our own kit for exercises, it was a worthwhile investment, especially with Sandy Wilson as staish we were out almost every other day. On that first one we did have a very friendly pub as a base :D.
Unfortunately, no hotels in the area.

regards

retard

cyclic

3rd Mar 2006, 15:43

Talk about take the bait! As an (ex) SAR pilot, yes, I know they carry blanks but I was eluding to the fact that it may have been a bit tricky to sit on someone's shoulders to place a gust lock given the circumstances.

And as for tosh, why don't the SAR cabs just carry everything they could possibly need and more, perhaps some desert kit just in case they have to shut down on Camber Sands? One, they don't have the space and two, the more extraneous kit you carry the less fishermen you can lift. Please don't tell me the HAR3 is overborne with power - you have obviously never flown it in the mountains.

The Swinging Monkey

3rd Mar 2006, 15:51

Cyclic,
Try reading what people write.
I didn't say the HAR 3 was overborne with power, I said that it was NOT under powered.
As for flying in the mountains - hmmm I'm not sure if I should rise to the bait...
oh to hell with it, here goes... how does 3000+ hrs in the mountains, over the water, in the FI, everywhere grab you?

I notice you didn't answer my question about 'the knackered old SAR boys can't' ... probably didn't read that bit eh??

TSM

cyclic

3rd Mar 2006, 15:58

I'm not entering a fight with an agressive winchman - I know when I'm beat :)

SAR Bloke

3rd Mar 2006, 16:01

The blanks and covers are carried but it was not feasable to fit them in the conditions that were present. One of the pilots walked back to the aircraft the following day to fit all blanks/covers/socks etc. We don't carry (or even have at base) big thermal blankets as they would be too heavy and we don't need them. We don't even carry sleeping bags any more (as a weight saving measure) but have top-of-the-range thermal survival blankets instead. As an indication of the depth of snow, when the pilot walked back in, it took over half an hour to walk the last 200m.

As for standing on someones shoulders to fit the gust lock, it is not an easy item to fit at the best of times, let alone in blowing snow at -10 degrees (before wind chill) on a mountain. The crew were 'dressed to survive' and not dressed to carry out an AF/BF and sit around for a cup of tea.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers. The wind was not that strong and the aircraft was sheltered from what little wind there was. Tip socks and tail locks were not required.

The aircraft is serviceable, the crew is safe, the casualty was rescued. This is a brilliant outcome considering what the crew were faced with and what could have happened.

We are going to try the heating method that Jungly AEO has mentioned. We are not sure if it will work but it is our best option at the moment. I have never had a problem with a battery start but we are taking a spare just in case.

If this doesn't work we will go for a Wokka lift but this can't be done yet as we don't want to set off an avalanche. Also, we have still only found one way of removing the blades in the current conditions (both location and weather) and we really don't want to crack open the angle grinder yet:eek: Bear in mind the aircraft is on the only piece of flat ground within an area of about 200m and it is in the middle of a huge boulder field so getting support equipment (such as A frames) near the aircraft is very difficult.

[email protected]

3rd Mar 2006, 16:35

SAR Bloke - the 2 most amusing things about this situation are that
1. it took one of your guys only a few hours to get the aircraft on ebay and 2. it is still declared on the RCS as a standby at RS60

If only it had been Frenchie then everyone at Valley would have been even more amused......... ah but then we would have had to have 765 action on the FRCs to add an extra check for icing during the pre-winchers:)

southside

3rd Mar 2006, 16:37

Surely it still is at RS60.

It's "S"

The crew are briefed and ready.

À vos ordres mon Capitaine

Wiretensioner

3rd Mar 2006, 17:10

Cyclic,
Try reading what people write.
I didn't say the HAR 3 was overborne with power, I said that it was NOT under powered.
As for flying in the mountains - hmmm I'm not sure if I should rise to the bait...
oh to hell with it, here goes... how does 3000+ hrs in the mountains, over the water, in the FI, everywhere grab you?
I notice you didn't answer my question about 'the knackered old SAR boys can't' ... probably didn't read that bit eh??
TSM
3000+ hours? Is that all!!!!!!!!!!

[email protected]

3rd Mar 2006, 20:45

Southside - that RS 60 is 60 minutes, not the 60 hours it will probably take to get that yellow icepop airborne:)

Hmmmm yellow ice.....isn't that a bad thing.......?

Wiretensioner it might be 3000 hours plus.....another 3000 hours!

The Swinging Monkey

4th Mar 2006, 11:19

Wiretensioner,

Yeh, sorry mate not many I know.
Sadly, got short-toured on promotion!
Still, chin-up.
Regards
TSM

Mir999

5th Mar 2006, 12:59

lots more pictures on www.rafmountainrescue.com (http://www.rafmountainrescue.com) after a straightforward register.... Looks a bit stuck to me?

Wiretensioner

5th Mar 2006, 14:04

Swinging monkey

I also started getting less hours when I was promoted and posted.

Promoted to Mister and joining the brave chaps in Bristows, now looking forward to CHC.

Wiretensioner

Twinact

5th Mar 2006, 17:38

As SH, I have to take my hat (helmet) off to the crew for making the decision not to press on. It must have been a difficult choice warm cockpit v cold mountain. Well done all involved.

Wiretensioner

6th Mar 2006, 11:05

Any update on the Sea King situation?

southside

6th Mar 2006, 11:42

Southside - that RS 60 is 60 minutes, not the 60 hours it will probably take to get that yellow icepop airborne

To declare an asset at RS60 doesn't mean you have to use that asset. The asset can still be declared at RS60 even if it is frozen at the top of a hill....

suggest you read the JSP fella.

scottishbeefer

6th Mar 2006, 12:51

What does the RCS say at the moment? If it says 60 why? They ain't mate. That cab is as good as U/S until someone spends some time thawing it out.

[email protected]

6th Mar 2006, 16:51

Southside - so you can declare an aircraft that is u/s as ready? I don't think so. I know, let's make our serviceability stats look really good by declaring all the aircraft at RS whatever is needed and only tell the truth about them when someone asks for one (sorry it went u/s on start).

SASless

6th Mar 2006, 16:56

Crab,

Welcome to the commerical world now....contract availability numbers are always a fiddle! Not that the military are immune from such tricks. How many combat aircraft, vehicles, and weapon systems are actually ready to fight despite being tagged "Good to Go"?

[email protected]

6th Mar 2006, 20:24

Sasless, surely not....people on the SAR thread got very defensive when I suggested that the 'operator who shall not be mentioned' might have played just that type of game with availability stats.

Yes you are right about the military - in the 90's the Lynx/TOW availability was massively overegged by an AAC desperate not to show what poor serviceability they had.

Archimedes

6th Mar 2006, 20:37

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4779848.stm

JTIDS

6th Mar 2006, 20:58

Good to see she's out of the worst of the hills at least....
Flight Lieutenant Darren French, from RAF Lossiemouth, flew the aircraft on the two-mile journey, which took less than five minutes.
Surely this must be some sort of speed record for the Seaking!!!

Hummingfrog

6th Mar 2006, 21:30

JTIDS

A bit slow really as when I flew the Mighty Queen it did 2nms/min (120Kts;) )
24kts was probably a good hover taxi speed for an iced up a/c:ok:

HF

Blitzkrieg1

8th Mar 2006, 20:21

Think you lot are missing the point here. The RAF got stuck and who did they call......the ever reliable Junglies!!!

http://www.westpress.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=146238&command=displayContent&sourceNode=146064&contentPK=14146533&folderPk=69655

A rather amusing article, unfortunately they've left off the picture from the paper which had a Royal Navy Sticker strategically placed over 'RAF Rescue' :D

JTIDS

8th Mar 2006, 21:35

Calling the Junglie Seakings any more reliable than the SAR ones is pushing it a bit surely!

Thankfully the same can't be said for their very handy de-icing kit :bored: :)

Butty

8th Mar 2006, 21:42

SAR Bloke (when you've got a minute) I'm looking forward to your account of the recovery.

SAR Bloke

8th Mar 2006, 22:58

What can I say that hasn't been said already?

Getting the people and kit in proved difficult. I am sure the guys loved the experience of hover taxying backwards into the corrie in weather that was still pretty grotty.

We eventually got the kit in and the engineers did a sterling job. The aircraft was 'toasty' inside when I got there, and was in pretty good nick. I have seen more water inside first standby aircraft than was in this one. The engines fired up first time on the internal battery. There was a bit of vibration so the head was shut down and some bits of ice on the mainblades that had been missed were cleared off.

From then on everything was straightforward, just a quick hop down to Glenmore Lodge due to the fading light and to allow the aircraft to completely thaw naturally.

The following day all the equipment was offloaded from the mountain and sorted, again helped by the 845 guys despite having completed their part of the task.

Unfortunately during the start to fly the aircraft back to Lossie it suffered a Hyds failure. Although it does seem a huge coincidence, the failure may not have been anything to do with its time out in the cold. The fix should be fairly quick but I don't know if it is back home yet as I've finally had a day off today:)

Loads of people to thank for helping us including 845 NAS, MAOT, MASU, Kinloss MRT (and I think Leuchars too), Cairngorm MRT, Glenmore Lodge, Royal Irish Regiment (for supplying a hooker) and probably others that I have forgotten.

Hopefully this won't happen again for a while:ok: