help - exam tips

[Fizzy Bear]

Got GNAV and Met coming up during the March sitting. Any tips/experiences from guys who have sat them recently would be much appreciated....
Fizzy

[Mooney12]

Its all about feedback.

If you havent already, buy access to Bristol Ground School's on-line question bank. An invaluable resource.

[Send Clowns]

Mooney's first sentence is completely and utterly wrong.

I assume you are doing resits if you are only taking two, and as an instructor with BCFT I have taught many people from many different schools to pass the Gen Nav resit, including 8 who were on their last attempt before losing all their other passes (all of whom passed). One common factor in many of the failures is over concentration on feedback. Feedback might pass you on some subjects, but not Gen Nav and I suspect not Met.

Concentrate on understanding the basics, and actually what they mean. Do you know what the definition of convergence is? Conversion angle? Departure? Do you know why they are important? These are vital to recognising questions that require you to use them, and to using them correctly. Learn to use the CRP-5 quickly and accurately, and to distinguish questions asking for heading from those asking for track/course.

Once you know the basics, and feel you understand, then test your knowledge against the question banks, of which Alex's at Bristol Groundschool is an excellent example.

If you have any more specific questions then feel free to PM me. At the risk of advertising (but I don't think many offer it) I can offer private tuition on either subject, or directions to others who might offer the same including Met specialists.

Best of luck!

[F.O.E.]

Just passed the two subjects that you mentioned. 96 in met and a 95 in Gnav..... I went through the subjects for a couple of weeks then hit the feed back. I know of a couple of guys that have slipped up with 100% feed back because with the stress of an exam they forgot which question they had previously chose as the wrong question to that of the correct one. One other important thing to remember about feed back is its good but not every question is 100% accurate. Understanding the subjects you will be able to query some of the many dodgy questions that appear.

Good luck

Flying on empty

[powdermonkey]

Send Clowns is right, but with Gen Nav and to a certain extent Met, you must be well versed in working out the questions. So feedback will give you plenty od sample questions which will help you practice this. I ended up with 10 wind calculation questions, drift angle etc, and because Ispent a while on the CRP5 learning how to use it and understand what I was looking for, by doing lots of sample questions and devising a method which worked for me, I had 10 questions in the bag and very importantly did not waste time in the exam. Learn your different types of charts and how to work out the various calculations which need to be done with Mercator etc. So, know your subject well, that is important, but practice doing all sorts of questions so that you are adept and not confused when it is time for you to figure out what is being asked during the exam. Met is very much understanding the subject but you can also practice answering a lot of questions, these will focus you on what you have ingested during study time. I kept having to go back to the text when answering questions so the Qbanks are a great way to refocus and revise. Long and short, it is a combination of both. Any exam involving calculation requires a lot of practice and especially understanding what is being asked. I got 92% inGen nav and I am not the brightest, but worked very hard at it, and spend a loooonng time trying to understand. Best of luck, I'm sure you will do great!

[727Man]

I to will agree with everyone on here, first time Gen Nav I got 70%, then i resat it 2months later and got 98%! all I did was Feedback,BGS online QB,and used the BGS Forum, and kept a log with each question I got wrong and an explanation of how to get the answer. It is a hard exam if you have to do it with all the others but on its own its easy. I finished with 30min to spare and was able to recheck my answers and add up my score so I new if I had passed!

[fatboyslimfast]

Hi

I agree that feedback is the solution, for nav, all you need to do is learn to use the crp 5 quickly, and accurately, thats about 40-50% of the marks. Thaen learn the PSR PET formulas, and plotting (easy) and you have passed. As for MET, get oxfords Met CD, and you cant fail. (well) Take that with a pinch of salt

Bristols feedback is expensive. Personally i would recomend "WILJAM" flight training. It is an ATPL question bank just like and as good as bristols, Just search Wiljam on the net and it will come up. You pay for it through paypal. It costs about £5 a month and it is equally as good as Bristol.

I used WILJAM for my p of f resit, and every question that came up i had seen in wiljam. You can cancel your subscription at any time, so if you only have 1 sitting to do, it will cost £5, compared to Bristols £50, or whatever they charge.

Good luck with it all :ok:

[powdermonkey]

Hi Fatboyslimfast, I have never used that qbank. So far have sat 11 atpls and passed them all, using only Bristol, but they covered on average 70 to 75% of the questions, so maybe the others came from somewhere else. I got through because I was able to get by on what I knew on top of that, but was wondering if when you compared the two qbanks, did you find the same questions or some differences?

[paco]

The wiljam question bank is offline due to copyright issues.

Phil

[Yahweh]

Does this mean people are only learning answers to the questions as opposed to learning the material. Heaven forbid. Remind me not to book flights with any airline in the near future;)

[paco]

Unfortunately, this seems to be the case. To be sure, there is a little exam technique that needs to be learned, so doing some practice papers is acceptable, but there is still no substitute for knowing your subject if you want to be a real pilot.

phil

[Send Clowns]

A lot of people seem to be giving advice based on their own experience. I am afraid that a sample of one makes for very poor results in any experiment! As an instructor with BCFT I worked with my own students and with many students from other schools who had failed at least once. I worked with them on the basic material, using feedback as a tool to identify problem areas and to test knowledge after the teaching, rather than as my main focus. The success rate was very high.

[A320rider]

i give u 2 free tips.

1. learn to fly a glider, and observe thermals, weather,...after several years of flying, you will pass your met exam without difficulties.

2.for the nav, make lot of transoceanic flights,with a eavy jet.

this is what i did, and it worked for me.

[FFP]

Learn to use the CRP-5 quickly and accurately, and to distinguish questions asking for heading from those asking for track/course.


There it is in a nutshell. Spot on.

[Andy_R]

Send Clowns see your PM's please

[bultaco]

I reckon if you study all the ATPL documents very well (without feedback) you may not pass the exams at all. The wording of the questions can be tricky and the feedback makes you aware of the style of question.
But I'd study the docs well....an interviewer might ask you "how does a wing generate lift ?"...and you'd say "em....the answer is 'C' "

[Send Clowns]

Seen and replied Andy. I might be passing Brighton this weekend.

[VC10 Rib22]

Fizzy Bear,
I agree with what Send Clowns and powdermonkey have said, you do not want to be relying solely on feedback. Gen Nav has quite a large syllabus (in that respect it is similar to MET, which is unfortunate for you) and you really need to work your way through whichever manual you have. I had the Oxford manual, which I found served me well, albeit it can go unnecessarily deep in some chapters - but this depth will serve me well come interview time, so I'm not complaining. When you are finished with the manual, hit feedback, and hit it hard. Also, try to ensure it comes from a reliable source i.e. Oxford or use B.G.S.'s excellent on-line Q.B.
With so many questions designed to catch you out, with a word or two changed here or there, I decided to break the feedback into individual subjects so that I would be able to recognise these subtle, but all important, differences. This, combined with putting many hours into Oxford's manual, meant I walked away from February's Gen Nav with a 94%.
If you want I could email you the individual subjects, these being:
Lambert/Mercator/Oblique/ Transverse, Time, EFIS, FMS, FMC, PSR/PET, IRS, INS, and COMPASSES
As for MET, do a search for Steve Francis (the weather man).
VC10 Rib22
:ok:

[powdermonkey]

But I'd study the docs well....an interviewer might ask you "how does a wing generate lift ?"...and you'd say "em....the answer is 'C'
That's brilliant. You do learn to think in multiple choice format! As I have said in previous threads, all this is not an ideal way to learn, and to reply to Send Clowns, I totally agree with him and that is the ideal scenario, but when you are on your own without the benefit of a knowledgeable tutor, it is VERY difficult to fully understand the material, especially due to the sheer volume, so unfortunately, the way it is for SOME and it was for me, I did my best and then worked hard at the qbanks, and got 90% average, first time passes on 11 exams to date. Am I thrilled? well yes, happy to have passed, but do I wish I could have understood more and retained more, very much YES, but I had to get through and the qbanks, for some papers is what got me through....but I worked hard to understand as much as I could and believe me, that made for some pretty frustrating hours of study. And let us not forget that the vast majority of the material,to quote many people far ahead of me in the industry so don't shoot me down for saying this, is NOT going to come into play in your day to day flying, and your ME/IR is probably far more important towards your flying carreer. I say this because this is what I have been told, so this is not my personal experience as I am not yet qualified and flying the line. If the JAA ATPLs concentrated more on the practical aspect of flying ( like FAA ) I dare say that much more would be understood AND remembered......

[Send Clowns]

Youa re right that you have a huge amount to take in, powder, but youare going through the first time. Fizzy appears to be at the stage of resitting two exams, a much more achievable volume but resits have a poor success rate for students who don't take steps to address what caused the fail in the first place.

[powdermonkey]

oooops, sorry, didn't realise those were resits, yes, then tuition if can do is very useful and should help to address the problem. But, having said that, from what I have seen to date, Abacus, Bristol and even the progress tests at the back of the Oxford Manuals would seem to cover the whole subject very well and should be enough to highlight the weak areas. All I can say is I cannot say how many times I wished I had had someone to turn to for explanations...the online forums sometimes are just not enough as it can be very difficult to ask the questions in the right way. I wish you the best of luck with what you have left to do, personally I cannot wait to be done with it all and get back to the practical stuff!

[Send Clowns]

That is a very common feeling!