JPA - What will it do for you?

[SRENNAPS]

I don’t post often but I have been a member of prune for many years. I sit back and read the many threads with interest, amusement, anger, fascination, frustration and sadness.
I have been in the mob for 28 years. I have been stationed at 13 locations, including many front line Sqns, I have seen a lot and done my fair share; mainly abroad on detachment. I have spent my life, with my wife, taking the rough with the smooth (mainly rough) and kept my (our) sense of humour and a stiff upper lip.
For 25 years we have lived in MQs because we have enjoyed being part of the “Family”.
Recently we have moved into our “FIRST” own home which is several miles away from where I work.
I found out today that under JPA, I will be £62 pounds a month worst off than I was under RILOR.
Worst still I have also found out that there will be no longer be any link between removals and disturbance allowance and the new “Home to Duty system”.
Only a few months ago I paid for my own removals and did not claim disturbance allowance to be able to claim full RILOR.
Now, anybody posted after JPA can claim all allowances with respect to a move and claim full home to duty up to 50 miles.
Good luck to those in the future that can claim, but ask me how happy I am.
My three percent pay rise has been effectively written off.
Once again the goal posts have moved. It really is time for me to get out.
And for those that may reply with “well you don’t get petrol money in Civie Street and anything you do get is a bonus – don’t bother!!!! I really am not interested in listening to people that have sold their souls for the so called better Air Force,
Quite frankly I feel shafted – again.

[southside]

Hardly....for goodness sake fella, you now own your own place. Yes, the goal posts have moved...but YOU moved them.....so do us all a favour and put them back


what would you like your empolyer to provide for you? Cheap housing, free medical care, free dental care.... If you dont like the cheap housing (IRO £ 300...thats a bit iffy cos thast wot I pay), free medical (£46.78 per month with BUPA), free sports (£50 per month down at golds), free dental (£24.25 in the high st) then do us all a flavour and save the military your wages

[SRENNAPS]

Southside,
I have watched, for a long time, the response from many people on this forum to your replys.

Dont even bother mate!!!!!! - you are not worth it.

[southside]

Oh woah is me, woah is me....



I work for this company who pay me enough money to allow me to afford my own house. On top of that they will provide me and my family, cheap child care, free medical care, free dental care, free sailingexpeditions to cyprus, free skiing holidays to Les Deaux alpes, free weekends in Dublin, free beer, free clothing.....and yet still I am not satisfied and therefore I am going to leave the generous and willing company and workj for a much better company....now, where can I get my free water when I join Ryan Air?

[SRENNAPS]

Southside,
And by the way, have you ever felt hacked off, frustrated, annoyed with other knobs preaching about other peoples life. I doubt it!!!!!

Why dont you get a life and leave prune because from what I can see you annoy a lot of real people and you lead a very sad life.

[SubdiFuge]

Southside - I hate you more than I hate myself

[southside]

Southside,
And by the way, have you ever felt hacked off, frustrated, annoyed with other knobs preaching about other peoples life. I doubt it!!!!!
Why dont you get a life and leave prune because from what I can see you annoy a lot of real people and you lead a very sad life.


Oh quantrare young man. I live a very good life. I get paid a fortune for a job I love doing. I fly to my hearts content and love every minute of it. I travel to exotic and foreign climes. I enjoy the freedom of democracy that you pay for as well as enjoying free medical, dental, etc etc blah blah blah
I get to meet people from foreign Armed Forces and I get to discuss our policies and doctrine with them. I enjoy their social lives and enjoy their cultures. I work with the most professional and socially inept bunch of aviators you would ever like to meet. I enjoy their expertise, coolness in combat but most of all their aggression. My team plays hard and fights harder. But above all I love the crewroom banter and cross cockpit banter that the AF's brings to us all. I realise that we are all aviators, all warriors and all professional airmen who are commited to defending this counrty and commited to placing our lifes on the line for the freedom of our fellow man...and if that means enjoying free medical care then Im gonna collect it.

[SRENNAPS]

Southside,
that is the best reply I have seen from you on this forum. If that is the case, I take my hat off to you. I envy the fact that you are still enjoying the life that most of us joined up to. I am a SNCO who has given just about everything they can to the mob. My old man joined in the fifties and I saw life in the Far East with him. As a SNCO so many of us have tried to make it, but at the end of the day we are only numbers and real dedication has never been recognised.
Sorry that’s why I am so pissed off.

[Arty]

Southside

Love it, great little piece mate, but one top tip: if you are going to do your Col Collins impression, best you don't start with:

''Oh quantrare young man''

Haven't laughed so much for a long time. :D :D

[FFP]

I get to meet people from foreign Armed Forces and I get to discuss our policies and doctrine with them.

Always the best part of the job I find . . . . . . . . .:E

[southside]

But getting back to the thread, JPA will allow me to control my own pay account with out some 17yr old snotty buggering it up. I will have full access to my pay and allowances. Claims will be in my bank within days rather than weeks. I will know how much I am getting paid without having to wait for the chit. I will have access to my leave and be able to plan my leave accordingly.

Can't wait....bring it on.

[RubiC Cube]

Southside,

I thought the RN always controlled their own leave without having to put leave passes in. Will you have to submit them now and actually be restricted to a set limit like the rest of us (were when I was still in)?

[MrBernoulli]

From his/her(?) profile: "southside is not a member of any public groups".

Nor perhaps, the human race ..... as we know it?

Arty, do you think that southside meant "Eau Cointreau young man"? Drinking too much, perhaps.

[rej]

From what I understand from my JPA briefing, the system has yet to have a provision for claiming days off in lieu of public holidays worked. Great to roll it out on 1 Apr when we have easter and 2 PHs in May; all those poor souls who will end up working will no doubt loose that time off (another erosion of the quality of life that we once experienced).

And for Southside who will, no doubt, add that some civvies also get stitched work over PHs - yup they do, but they also get double time pay!

[southside]

Southside,
I thought the RN always controlled their own leave without having to put leave passes in. Will you have to submit them now and actually be restricted to a set limit like the rest of us (were when I was still in)?Thats true and it will remain the same when JPA is rolled out.

[Grimweasel]

Rej,
This will be dealt with by the Unit HR Administrator in the PSF. They will re-credit your absence balance with the grant/public/shift days etc.
Not ideal but a workaround.
On the Pilot run just gone at bunker in London, JPA was well recieved by the OR's but, funny old thing, met with the most resistance from senior officers (Sqn Ldr and above)

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

So how long do you think it will be before the centralised call centre is moved from Glasgow to Mumbai to save money? (not sure which accent would be easier to understand though!)
What will JPA do for me? Probably cock-up my pay, leave (or absence, as it will now be called) and claims (re-imbursements?) even more than now. It will enable me to get loads of free calls to someone that doesn't have a clue what I am talking about.
And on a plus side, it will pay for itself in the first year by making it such a painstaking effort to claim for expenses that no one has the time or inclination to do so - not to mention a lack of space to store all your receipts!
I just love progress!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Understand that the RAF will accept JPA on time "as long as the pay side works". It will be accepted even if none of the other elements work correctly. I guess someone's promotion is predicated upon JPA coming online at the target date.

What has JPA done for me? I look forward to it buggering up my leave and travel claims for the next few months!!:E

[Widger]

Southside,That is twice in the space of a month I have found myself agreeing with you.....I will be calling WEBF "mate" next!.The best thing about JPA is that the RAF will be the guinea pigs!Oh, are you guys still not getting paid more than 28 days in February?

[TheBeeKeeper]

What will JPA do for you? Be afraid.... be very afraid, most of us have done online banking or bought something online right? The weary will always check to see if there is a padlock on the bottom right hand side of the browser window.

Just wait and see..... not sure that we will get to see that padlock....

Watch and shoot...... watch and shoot!

TBK

[Aeronut]

Oh quantrare young man.
That is almsot worthy of Del Boy -
"Oh Cointreau young man" -
Southside is the "Creme de la Menthe"

[The Swinging Monkey]

Southside,

I don't know who you are old bean, but having read your replies on this thread I would suggest you are a nob Sir!
TSM

[southside]

From what I understand from my JPA briefing, the system has yet to have a provision for claiming days off in lieu of public holidays worked. Great to roll it out on 1 Apr when we have easter and 2 PHs in May; all those poor souls who will end up working will no doubt loose that time off (another erosion of the quality of life that we once experienced).
And for Southside who will, no doubt, add that some civvies also get stitched work over PHs - yup they do, but they also get double time pay!


I Must have gone to another briefing as I don't think you understood the JPA brief very well. The system won't have to provide for PH's worked. You are entitled to your leave and when you take leave then you fill the box in and the leave will be taken off your chit. If you work a PH then you are not claiming that leave and therefore it is still there for you to take.

Nice coherant comment from TSM there. Is a swinging monkey a member of the RAF Regt ?

[rej]

Southside, do you trawl through the posts and disagree with every single one.

I would have thought that the chances are that that you were not at my briefing (many briefings/many units/probably not serving at the same location etc) and for the most I think that I did understand the information that was given (but there again Southside always knows more than the rest of us!!).

This is what we were briefed: you enter the start date of your leave, the end date of your leave and JPA automatically deducts the 'absence' days from your 30 days leave entitlement. Therefore, if you took a week off after Easter but you worked Good Friday and Easter Monday, the week should only 'cost' 3 days from your annual leave. However, from what I was briefed, there is no facility available to enter the breakdown of days taken like there is on the current RAF leave form and JPA will not know that you worked the two PHs. Hence, the system cannot cope with such instances.

Fortunately Grimweasel has given me good guidance - cheers mate.:ok: and The Swinging Monkey is a good judge of character.

[Kev Nurse]

"This is what we were briefed: you enter the start date of your leave, the end date of your leave and JPA automatically deducts the 'absence' days from your 30 days leave entitlement. Therefore, if you took a week off after Easter but you worked Good Friday and Easter Monday, the week should only 'cost' 3 days from your annual leave. However, from what I was briefed, there is no facility available to enter the breakdown of days taken like there is on the current RAF leave form and JPA will not know that you worked the two PHs. Hence, the system cannot cope with such instances."
Presumably, the JPA computer will be regularly updated to recognise the PHs and other entitlements. So, if you work on the PHs (ie you do not include those dates within your stated leave span), the computer will credit your leave balance accordingly. Or, the computer credits you with your annual entitlement including PHs at the beginning of the Leave Year. Until I experience this system for myself I'm reluctant to be critical. If the briefing states that we only need to enter dates, and all is taken care of, then it gets my vote, at the moment.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I love the idea that under JPA rates will disappear. From now on you will pay for all meals out of your own pocket and claim actuals back from the reciepts. (and by the way you are required to keep said recipts for 6 yrs!). All meals will be in set time periods and have set allowance, (as in the mess), fly over these periods and land hungry/night fly and sleep through the day and you get nothing! And one final thing, you will all need individual reciepts.

The entire system is designed for salesmen who work 9-5. Genius.

[PerArdua]

Will we still be able to get an advance of 'rates' to cover the 8 week detachments and then claim back at the end? Not everybody has the free income to cope with capped actuals and I would be weary of using 'my' money and then hoping that JPA pays it back.

PA

[Climebear]

PA

Simple answer is - Yes

[southside]

I've just a general question, particularly for our RAF comrades. Do you guys get issued with corporate Barclaycards?

[Lara crofts pants]

Yes we do get them.

[Biggus]

Who has got mine then, because I haven't?

[southside]

well, go and get one then. Go down to the UPO or whatever your unit office is called, fil the chit out and in very short notice you'll have a shiny new card in the post

As with the question of leave. Im assured that the computer will only register your leave. If you don't take leave then it wont regiseter it. You are entitled to your 36 days plus and if you dont get them then no computer is going to stop you marching out of the gate. It will take a long time for this thing to settle down and I for one will enjoy some of my lads having lots of leave and all because the PC says they haven't had it yet.

[SirToppamHat]

Had our JPA brief today.

Apart from the fact that I see this as yet another job to do, it pains me to say that some of the stuff here appears to be nonsense. I don't agree with the Capped Actuals thing, and when I asked what the actual amounts would be, the briefer was unable to tell me. He confirmed that we will be expected to produce receipts for items over £5, but that these would need to be retained for one year (not 6 years as someone suggested earlier). That being the case, I expect that my own claims will reach the cap, it's just that the items making up the amount may all be made up of items costing <£5.00!

Similarly, the issue of leave appears not to have been so badly thought out as suggested here. My own concern is for those who work shifts - will the system accept that a shift worker's weekend occurs on a Weds/Thurs? The answer was yes. You can put a stand-down day in perfectly legitimately - it's just that if you are not a SNCO or offr, you may need to have your boss approve it.

What I have most concern about is the ability of the Service to deliver the system as described. I am not convinced that the DII or various interim systems are up to supporting the software, and if this database works exactly as required, it will be a first for the Services!

Edited to add that I was also rather disturbed by the statement that people who are unable to provide recipts without good cause would be subject to disciplinary action ... this is going to present some significant problems and may make criminals of us all!

STH

[Wyler]

STH
I agree, yet another job which, IMHO, will probably generate even more stress and jobs due to the teething problems. Seems to have been designed with a nice cosey little factory in mind where most people clock on and off at about the same time.
What about those away on long dets? Is there a way for them to access from the sand?
I vote we keep the current 'meat' interface. Not perfect but at least you know where they live.

[Safety_Helmut]

In the words of the Kaiser Chiefs: I predict a riot !:ouch:

Kaiser Chiefs are a band by the way BEagle.

S_H

[Miserable Old Git]

Beagle – Band = Popular music beat combo:)

[Spurlash2]

Here we go then,
Suppose all your immediate superiors are detached, Chief, CSgt, FS, WO, et al. You happen to be the scroat back at base. The 2i/c/Boss is on leave. There are other senior people around, but due to the 'Flight' system of working on a squadron (that's Navy and RAF - not sure with Army) they do not have the JPA computer permissions to sort things for people not on their 'Flight' or whatever.
You want 2 days leave, so send an electronic request from a spare computer terminal you found loafing :hmm: Your immediate sup does not answer within 48 hours, so it gets passed to the next one. He's away, so you now get passed to next in line. He could not possibly get back to confirm your request as he is otherwise engaged somewhere else.
Can you go on leave as you want, without the electronic confirmation; or could, HERETIC, you ask nicely of the Chief, WO, Et al, down the corridor, if it would be OK?
Does the system account for line managers absence?

[ZH875]

Suppose all your immediate superiors are detached, Chief, CSgt, FS, WO, et al. You happen to be the scroat back at base. The 2i/c/Boss is on leaveIn this case as there is no-one around, why not just skive for the 2 days and have the leave later when the immediate superiors are back.....:)

[southside]

In actual fact, the only people who really know how this thing works are the Boffs who built it and the pussers who are tryng to sell it to us. Why not leave it a year and see if it works. You never know, this time next year we could all be singing the virtues of it and wondering how we ever coped without it.... (I doubt it somehow but at least lets give it a fair crack)

[waddingtonpete]

The actuals will be £21 per day if you have only booked B+B thorugh CHBS, however if you take the B+B plus evening meal then you will get £4.20, all these figures come from JSP 725

[rej]

When the line manager is away, he/she will set the system up so that the acting line manager will get the 'document'. From what I was told, if there is no response within 3 days it goes up the chain by one, after another 3 days it goes up the chain again and so on. I suppose CAS will end up being pretty busy then;)

[lippiatt]

Not a good start though is it. The online internet training portal has crashed already, thus forcing everyone to scramble for the spare SAMA / DII machines to do the compulsory e-learning. Plan is apparantly for JPA to be available via internet eventually.

[Stop Start]

What fun the e-learning package is! Having logged on last week before it all crashed, I and several others discovered that our Personal Details page info was mostly incorrect (wrong DOB etc). A quick phone to the helpdesk revealed that I was not the only one. Imagine my surprise!! Most of the errors were DOB and email address related. The helpdesk then explained how she had just taken a phone call from someone who was born in 1902, and was still serving! Talk about extension of service!

Roll on the 20th! I suggest we all brace ourselves and warn the bank in time for payday!

SS;)

[Wrathmonk]

As I understand it the pay roll goes to the banks on the 14th of the month ie March pay will be under the current system. The 20th was deliberatly chosen for going live to give what remains of Admin branch a chance to correct the errors in the database before the pay run goes out on 14th April.

No I'm not a paid up supporter of Admin branch, it was just the only bit of the brief I listened to before falling asleep!

Give it a chance - the baseline software (Oracle?) is used by many big companies out in the real world (BA included I believe!) and you don't see many gripes from them. True, the military have adapted it slightly to take into account the "oddities" of military lifestyle ...

At the end of the day if you have control over your day to day life regarding pay / allowances / leave etc it has to be a good thing. The majority of posters here on pprune bleat about handbrake house - from March 20th (hopefully!) the only person to blame if your allowances are fecked up will be yourself.

And a 5% odds of having to provide evidence of a claim are far better than the current 100% evidence (as a certain Capt RN knows to his cost!).

[southside]

Im surprised that none of you are picking up on the cost of JPA. How much does it cost to administer your leave at the moment?


well, for me it costs....whatever the price of an A4 bit of paper is.

So, why change an A4 bit of paper which is

1) handy in my top draw.

2) easily fill inable and

3) bloomin cheap as chips....


for JPA ,......why?

[Now a 'J' Bloke!!]

...the bit of photocopied paper in your top drawer is more expensive than an on-line form on a computer that is switched on anyway and does not count the cost of the mail room staff sorting it and giving it to the mailman who gives it to the Adj to stick it in your mail tray....:\

Go build an airfix kit or something...:ok:

RTM
'J' Bloke:cool:

[southside]

how much did it cost to design that online computer form which then has to be sent to the mail office via the adjutant etc etc....


any guesses?

who much did it cost to design the blank piece of paper which sits in my top drawer until the next year when I put that one in the bin and then start a new one.

we can go on like this fella but I'll win. Because I can nip into WH Smiths and buy a pack of 200 for less than a fiver. That will keep me in leave chits for the next 200 years for less than 5 Quid. Will JPA still be going in 200 for tless than 5 quid?

[Kev Nurse]

Leave admin is only one small aspect of JPA and its probably not worth discussing to any great depth at this stage, but the issue about application forms becoming redundant does merit a comment. The JPA computer's role, regarding leave, is to simply administer it. It doesn't give anyone permission to take leave. It assumes that individuals of SNCO, or higher rank, are either in charge of their destiny or have already spoken to their colleagues and/or Flt Cdrs. IMHO a busy Flt Cdr on a FL sqn with many SNCOs and officers will be within his rights to insist that written details of leave (auth'd absence) for his approval, or that have been approved by him, will continue. He might devise some sort of wall chart/excel spreadsheet as a howgozit, but ultimately he will probably want the individual to present a package of info (name, dates, etc) on some kind of media (paper or e-mail) as a reference to aid the personnel planning process. We have a form for that......

[Safety_Helmut]

£4.20 for lunch then, so what McDonalds value meal will YOU choose ?

Capped f@cking actuals !

S_H

[Ginseng]

You may think you're joking, but the capped actual lunch rate has been set by reference to the average UK price for a "Fast Food Outlet", and is intended to cover "Up to TWO courses AND a drink". (I quote from JSP 752 in both cases). Now, you probably thought that it would be Service policy in these days of the AFT and the Over-weight police to discourage service men and women from extisting on greasy burger, chips and Coke. Apparently not.

Regards

Ginseng

[Safety_Helmut]

Two course, that'll be Burger AND Chips then ?

S_H

[Ginseng]

Just don't forget to get Line Management and budgetary written or verbal authority before ordering your burger and fries (JSP 752 03.0116). Oh, and keep the receipt! Ah but you won't need a receipt, will you, because it will cost less than £5 (03.0171), even though you will for your incidental expenses such as your daily newspaper (03.0113). But then again, perhaps not, because it cross refers to 03.0171. As for expenses over £5, you need a receipt, unless one cannot reasonably be obtained, in which case you should keep a personally signed statement itemising your expenditure with your claim (03.0171)! I think there are going to be a lot of people who suddenly find it just wasn't reasonably possible to obtain a receipt. And what actually constitutes a valid receipt anyway, for the purposes of the audit? (the JSP has nothing very helpful to say on that subject).

Gawd help us!

Regards

Ginseng

[Biggus]

southside

On 1st Mar, entry 39, you said reference JPA "....lets give it a fair crack...", and now on 3rd Mar, entries 45 and 47, you are criticising it? Are you envoking your womens perogative to change your mind, playing devils advocate to get a rise, or just being an ar*se as usual?



What I object to, as is too often the case these days, is bringing something into service before it is ready, just to make the target date and avoid a red face for some senior neddie who might have to explain why it is running late. If I remember correctly pay 2000 finally happened in 2001 thanks to too ambitious a target date. How about we get some more realistic estimates of the time neccessary to achieve such changes. Working out a reasonable figure and doubling it would be a good start.

Alternatively, put it out to a civy IT firm, with a penalty clause (tied to the system being 'fully operational' from day one on line) so they are paying the MoD for any delays.

In the military we put up with a lot, but you mess with people's pay and leave at your peril - and JPA, if they don't get it right from day one, threatens to do both!!

[opso]

the capped actual lunch rate has been set by reference to the average UK price for a "Fast Food Outlet", and is intended to cover "Up to TWO courses AND a drink". (I quote from JSP 752 in both cases).

Whilst we have arguably seen a decline in Mess standards over the past decade (certainly over the past 2 decades), they certainly have not reached the level of McD or similar junk food outlets. So what has happened to the equivalency aspect of allowances - has this also bitten the dust with JPA?

Are there different rates of capped actuals for London?

Sorry for the questions, but both of our briefings here were massively oversubscribed (apparently, they didn't realise that so many people would be interested in JPA!) that I couldn't get in the room for either one. :uhoh:

[Ginseng]

I am not aware of any different rates rates for the capped actuals meals allowances within Day or Night Subsistence for the London area, although there are special circumstances in which Watchkeepers working in HQs, including those in London, may claim elements of subsistence which would not normally be payable. The actuals rates for other countries will be set by monthly Directed Letter from the policy staff, as before, and will vary from the UK rates.

I haven't yet found anything in JSP 752 which even mentions the concept of "equivalence", but I'll keep looking.

Regards

Ginseng

[Wrathmonk]

Biggus

The software for JPA is COTS (commercial off the shelf) and is used by many leading corporations (who have more employees than us) such as Lloyds Bank, BA, Sanisburys etc.

South****e

If it was only an A4 piece of paper. Don't forget to include the numerous clerks (leading writers?) and associated hangers on who have to approve each and every claim (apart from those of Wg Cdr / Cdr / Lt Col and above I believe). Then there is the 3 day claim to payment of JPA versus the 7 weeks claim to payment where I currently reside.

FFS give it a chance!

[SirToppamHat]

I have it on VERY good authority that the Army and RN have seen sense and delayed significantly their planned 'roll-out' of JPA (apparently it was confirmed yesterday!).

Biggus is spot on with his statement about bringing into service something which is simply not ready yet. OK, we've had a couple of briefs and been given log-ons and passwords, but I've not met anyone yet (including those from Innsworth who are briefing it) who has managed to get into the trg package (though one or 2 on here seem to have managed it). As Biggus suggests, there are too many elements of this that will be 'introduced at a later date'.

SAMA is being switched-off on Monday (6 Mar 06), but they are 'hoping' to have read-access for another week or so, so I imagine there'll be some heroic printing out in PSFs across the country!

STH

[16 blades]

So, does all the 'automation' of JPA mean we can sack a whole bunch of adminers, freeing up more money for the front line (where it belongs)?

....don't bet on it!

16B

[Grimweasel]

RN and Army have been delayed due to lack of Infrastructre (DII) NOT JPA issues. The RAF was seen as the best candidate for initial roll out due to it having better networks etc in place. SAMA will be turned off as an application but JPA will still piggyback off the SAMA network.
Oracle HRMS is the COTS package being used and from a self service point of view is very good. The HR (PSF) staff will take a little longer to get used to but in two years time we will be wondering what all the fuss was about!!
Those who need better info pm me and I shall try to find out as I'm in the hub of it all (for my sins!!)

[16 blades]

JPA will still piggyback off the SAMA network.

It will sit, as a distributed application, on the same RESTRICTED LDCN as every other distributed application (except RCHOTS, which curiously has it's own dedicated WAN in most places). I only hope that the available bandwidth will cope with a system that EVERYBODY in the Armed Forces will need to access.

Top tip - EVERYBODY try to put leave in at the same time, and watch it crash. Next Christmas will be interesting...

16B

[Spotting Bad Guys]

So have the rates for capped actuals been published? If so, where?

Cheers

SBG

[Mightycrewseven]

Mrs Mighty reliably informs me that the rates are available in JSP 752 (yes, she is a JSP spotter.)
Any more geeky help you need, i'll pass your requests on to Mrs Mighty (JPA Pro!)
M7 sends :bored:

[Ginseng]

Yep,

Believe they are in Chap 2 Sect 6.

I guess that makes me a super-geek.

Regards

Ginseng

[opso]

Ginseng - thanks for the info.
I guess that makes me a super-geek.
No, just with a lot of time on your hands, meaning that you're not flying enough. :ok:

[Ginseng]

Now there I have to agree with you!

Regards

Ginseng

[D-IFF_ident]

Here's what JPA does for single blokes serving overseas and receiving Local Overseas Supplemental Living Allowance: You lose your right to ANY other meal rates.

E.g. - single bloke on exchange in USA - gets around $5.80/day as recompense because he can't eat in the mess; under JPA, he can no longer claim subsistence rates - so Breakfast, Lunch and Tea costs should all equal $5.80, not the $70+ that they do now...

Also heard the Army and Navy have put it on hold until Apr 07.

Not long now

[Well Travelled Nav]

Which version of JSP752 are you looking at? The v1 which I downloaded off the intranet does not have a ch2 section 6.

WTN

[Ginseng]

You need the latest version (2?) which was updated on 17 Feb 06 to include the 06/07 rates. It is on the intranet, with new and amended text in blue.

Regards

Ginseng

[Smudger552]

JPA also being used to get other allowances cut, through the back door. Disturbance allowance is being reduced for Officers by approx £400 to bring it in line with other ranks.

[dallas]

Well I know a Cpl, married with no kids, who got about £900 Disturbance Allowance and removals done and paid for. Presumably DA for officers is equally disproportionate unless you've got 5 kids and a small country to move. In which case, I have no sympathy with a £400 reduction.

I'll be interested to see what DA for singlies means as the current 'Move yourself and we'll pay your expenses' (in a Capped Actuals kind of way) meant I was £50 out of pocket no matter how fast I moved or which route I economically drove. For anyone to be out of pocket in 2005 as a result of being posted is ridiculous, especially when the Marrieds get given a wheelbarrow full of cash for nothing.

[southside]

JPA also being used to get other allowances cut, through the back door. Disturbance allowance is being reduced for Officers by approx £400 to bring it in line with other ranks.

Good. I can't believe that it is more expensive for an Officer to move than it is for a Petty Officer.

[ATCO IN THE VOY]

All you clever folks, I wondered if anyone knew if I will now beable to claim home to duty? I moved out after the 6 month rule of being able to claim such luxury as money for nothing.. Reading the new JSP, I cannot see anywhere saying that upon arrival in a new post to claim home to duty i must move out within 6 months.... Does anyone out there know more than me?

[neilmac]

I agree with Dallas! im moving again , single at my own expenses van hire and petrol for the 3 days around £300 , I get back £97 quid, 2nd move like this in 5 months grrrrr!! Been in a number of years, but single still being treated like 2nd class. :uhoh:

[Smudger552]

Southside......tsk tsk, of course it is more expensive for an officer to move....my wine and truffles collection will cost rather more to move than a 4 pack of stout!

[Ginseng]

Yes, singlies will now be able to claim DA, at least in some circumstances. Also, the rank differential has been removed, in favour of basing the DA rates on the size of the accommodation you are moving to (a bit problematic, perhaps, if you are moving from a larger house to a smaller one?). The rates for moving into SFA are now rather lower than those for moving into private accommodation (good to see the Services doing even more to encourage occupation of SFA!).

Beware. There are heavy hints that DA rates are likely to move downwards again in future.

For your next piece of relaxing reading, JSP 754 - The Tri-Service Rules for Pay and Charges, is now available on the Defence Intranet.

Regards

Ginseng

[neilmac]

Ginseng,
When does this DA for singles guys/gals come into force????

[BEagle]

In the bad old days, there was no such thing as DA for singlies. Or even Home-to-Duty if you lived out.

Then came the revolution a few years ago - about bloody time too - when singlies were no longer discriminated against. No longer were you expected to move all your worldly possessions in your own car from base to base. As I did in my 1970 MG Midget from Cranwell to Leeming to Cranwell to Valley to Brawdy to Wittering... In my Fiat 128SL coupe from Wittering to Honington to Biggin Hill. In my Opel Manta from Biggin Hill to Leeming to Scampton. In my VW Sciroccos from Scampton to Leeming to Valley to Chivenor to Coningsby to Wattisham. And finally in another Opel Manta from Wattisham to Finningley to Brize Norton....... Many of which moves also involved the inevitable trips to Mountbatten and North Luffenham, of course.

Sooo, if DA is being reduced, then do what we were supposed to do back then and move anything which isn't your own private property by R&D. Everything!...... "Sorry, Boss, my uniform, flying kit, etc etc hasn't arrived yet..... R&D haven't delivered it"

When I moved from Chivenor to Coningsby, I asked how long it would take R&D to send my RAF kit. "About 3 weeks with luck, Sir"....:rolleyes:

[Ginseng]

With the introduction of JPA.

Regards

Ginseng

[Safety_Helmut]

That's quite a collection of cars BEagle, no Ford Capri though ? :E

S_H

[BEagle]

No Dagenahm Dustbin for me - my father had one of the first Capri 3000 GT XLRs until he traded it in for an MGB GT!

I've never owned a 4- or 5-door car!

After the Manta, it was Manta GTE Stage 2, then Honda Preludes from 1991 until 2003, then Mercedes Benz SLKs.

None of which would have been much use for moving my worldly possessions in, had I moved between postings. But I was lucky enough to have 20 years in British West Oxfordshire, so HM didn't have to cough up a single brass farthing to help me move.

Surely in these post-Pink Wednesday PC days, there can be no discrimination on marital status grounds?

[Ginseng]

Marital Status?

You mean "Personal Status Category" (PStatCat).

Marital Status. That's s000000 last year.

Regards

Ginseng

[Ginseng]

I got it slightly wrong yeaterday.

Disturbace Allowance, under JPA, will irrespective of rank, but will vary by the type, not the size of the property being moved to:

Privately-owned £1650
Privately-Rented and SFA/ssfa £969
SLA/SSLA £75
Extra child element for each eligible child £130

Unmarried personnel will have the same entitlement as married.

These rates will apply to each Service from their respective single service roll-out date for JPA.

Personnel setting up home for the first time since joining the Service will now be eligible to claim DA.

Those moving in mid-assignment into SFA will now have a higher rate of DA than previously.

Those moving in mid-assignment into SLA will be eligible for DA for the first time.

What will vary according to the size of the accommodation, rather than its type, are the relevant removals/storage allowances (Movement and storage of Personal Effects (PE) - JSP 752 Chap 7 Sect 2).

Regards

Ginseng

[dallas]

Provided the princely sum of £75 for singlies isn't supposed to replace the 'DIY Removals Capped Actuals' (TM) of £120ish max. Otherwise it's a loss for the singlies again, but I'm sure nobody would abuse those without a voice...

[Ginseng]

"Movement and Storage of PE" replaces Household removals, Unaccompanied Baggage and Storage. It is no longer related to rank or PStatCat (that's Marital status to you Beagle!). Single personnel moving into private accommodation will no longer need to have completed 3 years service to be eligible for removals and unaccompanied baggage (UB). Rates of UB will be replaced by a volumetric allowance based on the accommodation type and number of bedrooms (or rooms in the case of SLA).

The new PE Regs will apply to all 3 Services simultaneously from the date of RAF Roll-Out of JPA.

Regards

Ginseng

[Yeller_Gait]

dallas,

Just think yourself lucky you are still single, it costs a damn sight more being married than a few quid extra on DA.

Y_G

[opso]

I'm sure nobody would abuse those without a voice...
That would be everyone in the military then...

[BEagle]

'PStatCat' - what wunnerful PC-speak!

Still, it would seem that things are rather better than was first reported.

When my personal effects would no longer fit inside an Opel Manta, it cost a fair bit to have them moved, stored, then delivered from Suffolk to British West Oxfordshire. For which I recived no financial assistance from the RAF, of course.

At least now people seem to be being given a reasonable removal allowance. That is, of course, assuming that they can actually afford private housing in this neck of the woods.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Has anybody else tried the (mandatory) JPA training package on Defence Learning yet?

Does anyone else find absolutely insultingly noddy? It is driving me up the wall it's so bl:mad:dy slow. Just as well there is no flying today!!!:mad: :mad:

[bayete]

Nothing this afternoon with a stationwide power failure.
Which was dissapointing as I was trying to do my personal admin during the poor weather as AdminGuru suggests in another thread.
Still at least for now I could submit claims and leave passes through the mail.
Roll-on total automation and reliance on computors.

[Grimweasel]

If you find the elearning too slow you can use the navigation buttons next to the slider and click it on to the next step, much like a DVD player. This will speed it up. Remember, the idea of hosting it on DLP is so that the CRM wizardry can monitor your usage and time spent learning. The JPAC EC will have that info made available to them, so if you try to cuff it off and say you have completed the e-learning, BIG BROTHER will know!!!

[clear stern arcs]

Anyone out there know anything about this one?
All the bumf regarding LSSA/LSSB/LSA says that LSSB is to be carried over to LSA at a rate of 60%. Great for those of us with a little time in a different uniform under our belts. Or so I thought. Innsworth now saying that as LSSA didn't come in til '98, only LSSB qualified for since then will be counted.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice?

Tks in advance

CSA

[Ginseng]

Sorry, not up on this one at the moment. I'll see what I can find out.

Regards

Ginseng

[SRENNAPS]

Well, got my pay chit today (very early). Apparently I got posted 16 Feb 06 and now pay for food charges. £120 light as a result. Rang PSF and they blame JPA transition. Any comment???

PS I have not moved!!!!!

[Ginseng]

Weel, it wasn't a JPA error, because this pay run wasn't done on JPA. Apart from that, it is difficult to comment.

Regards

Ginseng

[BEagle]

"Computer says naoaoh......"

[Chox Away]

Hi all,
I, like many others, have been following the threads on JPA and have found the information rather more pertinent than many official sources (my thanks to all the contributors).
I have however, recently returned from a trip abroad and have a nagging question I would like to pose. On several occasions (duty taxi fares, eating out etc) I have included in the cost, an element of ‘Service Charge’ or ‘Tip’, usually around the 10/15% mark.
Although it’s a long time ago since I last travelled abroad, I seem to remember there has always been some sort of recompense available for these ‘additional’ payments when claiming back via the F1771 route.
Would JPA allow for these ‘Service Charges’ bearing in mind that many ‘Tips’, in some countries, are expected and are not optional?

[Melchett01]

Apparently I got posted 16 Feb 06

Lucky you. According to my JPA e-learning account, I was born 16 Jan 1905 and am in the Army. By all accounts I should be dead by now. Mind you that would be preferable to having to sit through all the JPA briefings and trg bollocks.

If they can't get my DoB right and who I work for, then god only knows what will happen to the rest of my data ..... too much to hope that I'll end up on ACM pay or level 14 LSA by mistake!

[Fg Off Kite]

Well 20 Mar has passed, anyone tried to use JPA yet?

I tried yesterday but there's no forecast on when passwords will be issued!!

It may have rolled out, but no-one can use it....

[Danny_Boy]

Unless you work in PSF (oops - HR Admin), you won't be able to log on until 3 Apr at the earliest. Most people can expect to log on between 3-10 Apr. This is - apparantly - so that HR Admin and a dedicated change team at Southwick Park can migrate all the data across, including inputs for people who move about during this transition period. Wait and see how well THAT works...

[SRENNAPS]

Well, since I started this thread (a few months ago) I notice that JPA has upset a few people.
It is a shame that many people in the mob (and on this site) could not see the problems coming untill it hits them in the face.

It seems to happen far too often these days.

But I have no doubt that you will slag an old Chief Tech like me off.
We know F%$K all - these days.

[L J R]

SRENNAPS, At least you can type - or so it appears.

[Compressorstall]

All JPA does for me is to ensure that the officers who work for me and with me spend all day trying to sort their claims and find out if they're being paid. Even the most selfless gets wrapped up in trying to input information. The end result is that work they should be doing gets puts aside whilst they worry about something that used to be looked after my people trained in such matters.
High tech isn't always the right solution.

[ranger703]

Southside has been very quiet on this thread since his initial banterings!!I wonder if like many others he has not been paid flying pay this month or maybe he is just sat in front of a mchine still trying to sort out his claims.

I STILL dont even have a machine that I can even log onto JPA and even attempt to change my details or claim for expenses!!

[Kev Nurse]

I must be one of a (very?) small minority. I received a hard copy of my pay statement before pay day, which is unusual. The numbers on it were correct. On the due date, the money was in the correct bank account. Earlier this week I accessed the expenses pages and claimed for the cost of buying a visa in another country (to get me home on a duty journey; please don't ask why I needed one to get out of the place) and JPA did the currency conversion for me. I also claimed the cost of a lunch in the UK during a coach journey. I have since received 2 correct BACS credits from JPA on my account.

Do you think I should complain for being treated differently to everyone else?

[L J R]

Hats off to you Kev.

I presume that there are others like you (going to the cocktail party I presume). BTW are you invited.


I hope JPA types can check your details to ascertain how to get it right!!

[Kev Nurse]

I didn't do anything different to anyone else that I know of. Just lucky, I guess. Based on the principle of "rubbish in, rubbish out" I'd like to thank the unknown individual(s) who maintained concentration on my personal details when transferring the data from SAMA and did not put rubbish in. I know it would have appeared to be a thankless task at the time but here's one belated vote of thanks anyway.
I hope we all recognise the hard work put in by the young men and women who spent 2 or 3 days in March (I believe) loading up the data. Doubtless there were mistakes, but entering 40,000+ personal records was always going to be a mind-numbing task at best.

[Elmlea]

What annoys me about JPA is that they've taken away all the PSF staff I used to rely on for some help.

Who actually knows what they can claim for now? I've been on a handful of lunchstops and a couple of brief nightstops over the last few weeks. Am I entitled to anything? PSF is shut due to a lack of staff and JPAC rarely answer the phone; and if they do, they have no idea what I'm entitled to....

[downsizer]

Going back to Dist Allow, my missus and I are getting married and moving into quarters from our privately rented accom, does anybody know if I can claim DA for this? Ta.

[Grum Peace Odd]

downsizer, unless something has changed to the benefit of servicemen (an unlikely proposition, I know) your first move in to FQs is at your expense whilst later ones are are the Crown's expense. Hire a van and grab some mates from the sqn to give you a hand and in return throw a BBQ with lashings of beer after the humping-and-dumping is done. Always used to work. :)

[dallas]

Actually Grum, I do believe one of the few improvements to our allowances now JPA is in is the Service paying for every move they invoke. Blunties please correct me?

Even singlies get Disturbance Allowance but I'm not sure if the rates compare to their "move under your own steam and we'll pay the first tenner" deal that many a singly has used to their cost!

However, to pay for it the marrieds have had their DA rates cut - not that they weren't generally getting more than enough...

[downsizer]

Actually Grum, I do believe one of the few improvements to our allowances now JPA is in is the Service paying for every move they invoke. Blunties please correct me?

Even singlies get Disturbance Allowance but I'm not sure if the rates compare to their "move under your own steam and we'll pay the first tenner" deal that many a singly has used to their cost!

However, to pay for it the marrieds have had their DA rates cut - not that they weren't generally getting more than enough...

So can anybody confirm this, or should I bosh an app in anyway?

[downsizer]

Well without wanting to be a total geek the JSP 752 says:

Mid-assignment Moves. DA is only payable for mid-assignment moves where the move of accomodation is for service, compassionate, welfare or medical reasons or where the service persons accomodation entitlement changes.

Now the way I interpret that is that my accomadtion entitlement has changed, from single living accom (block/mess) to Married quarter, so it would seem to me that it should be paid in this instance.

[jstars2]

From Private Eye No. 1159

While computer firm EDS is messing up the payment of RAF crews’ salaries thanks to its handling of the Joint Personnel Administration (JPA) system (see last Eye), it is at least being nice to some airmen.

Air Chief Marshall Sir Anthony Bagnall was vice-chief of the defence staff until last July. This March he joined the EDS Defence Advisory Council.

[BEagle]

Mine's a large scotch please!

[SirToppamHat]

Large G & T for me please.

STH