RN Pilot Aptitude Question

[Friendly fire-isn't]

Hi,

I have a small question regarding Pilot Aptitude Testing for the Royal Navy.

A few years ago, I took the full set of Pilot/Obs aptitude tests and passed for both.

About a year before that, I took the RAF flying scholarship aptitude test (its considerably shorter).

When I sat the full set of tests, I was told that it would be my last shot, as the smaller flying scholarship test would count as my first attempt.

Does anyone know if this is still the case? I'm coming to the end the "interviews at careers office" stage of the process, and It'd be good to have another shot at the tests to improve my score. My careers officer thinks they'll retest me anyway.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

[Tourist]

Historically, no they won't let you retry.
Why, I don't know, probably to stop you getting higher scores by learning the tests.
It shouldn't matter anyway. If you passed before, now is an excellent time to join because we are so desperate.
One question.
Why didn't you join after you passed them last time?

[Friendly fire-isn't]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

The reason didnt join after I took the aptitude tests was because the Navy wouldn't let me. I failed the AIB!

Hopefully this time round I'll pass it!

[airborne_artist]

First off you should speak to the AFCO. If they don't know/know how to find out then PM cobaltfrog, who may be able to help you with an answer.

[scottishbeefer]

Actually there's a relatively lower output of rotary pilot because the bar has been raised at every level, in conjunction with a (typical) bottleneck pre/post DHFS. Jungly still the quickest thro'put, Merlin slowest.

We need the numbers but the standards are higher not lower. Experience has proved that allowing the weakest guys through is not viable anymore. Lucky for me as I was a training risk post Topcliffe (before EFT moved to Barkston)! But that was a while ago.

However, this doesn't mean much at FFI's stage of the game. If he/she's passed for P/O then work on that AIB and fingers crossed! The AIB won't let you cross their door as prospective aircrew unless your aptitude scores are still valid. Good luck.

[proudfishead]

There is some truth to the comment "now is an excellent time to join because we are so desperate" The RN are still undermanned for aircrew, moreso on the Observer front. However, the shortage is on "qualified" aircrew not trainees. We are getting enough people in at the beginning of the pipeline but still not getting the numbers we need onto operational squadrons. The FAA is now a completely "single seat" pilot organisation resulting in the higher standards of captaincy and general ability, this has contributed to an increasing failure rate.

The most recent batch of RN trainee aircrew at DEFTS (finishing last week) are a reflection of the current problems. Course of 3: 1 got rotary, 2 failed. Current trend is for 65 pilots to be recruited a year, 4-5 fail grading, 5-6 fail EFT, 10 go to Linton, 45 go to DHFS and we end up with 38 rotary pilots and 4 fw guys a year (on average)

In answer to your original question, you will most likely not be allowed to take another batch of aptitude tests, but since you have already been offered an AIB previously your scores are obviously above the required threshold. Best I can recommend is work as hard as you can on your AIB prep and general OLQ type stuff. Good luck.

PM me of you have any more specific enquiries.

[Jucky]

You are only allowed 2 attempts at FATs. The flying scholarship does count. However passing the FS FATs is not enough for entry into the service and you have to complete the full battery of tests. If you passed both P & O there is no need to retake them. If you failed the FATs and just dipped out you may well be offered a second chance to do them although usually a year has to elapse before you can retake them. If you stoofed them completly and you are unfit to be in charge of a moving vehicle let alone an aircraft then it is unlikely you will be offered the chance to take the tests again.

Hope this helps.

Jucky :ok: FLY NAVY!:ok: :E (EAT CRAB!):E

[scottishbeefer]

From a rotary point of view:

For anyone out there who may be thinking that the the Roger Nigel is desperate - we are not trying to recruit any old joe to fly these fancy flying machines anymore.

As a recently departed DHFS QHI, I can tell you that the boys & girls are working damn hard throughout the pipeline and there is definitely no easy ticket, despite a relative manning shortage in the Front Line.

As PFH says, the FAA (technically) has no dual piloted cabs (the reality is different as is well known), with the exception of a small no of pilots going to 771 for utility/SAR. However, the single pilot standard is still applied at the end of DHFS, and the "average" required is higher than the average of old. This reflects a increasing failure rate downstream, particularly noted by customers like 848 and is the system designed to sort the wheat/chaff.

What's the way to succeed? Well for one thing the beefing quality is excellent (naturally I don't include myself!) so that's a big help. The stude can help by avoiding the bar a bit and knuckling down to learn the checks/techniques/nav routes etc, so that you're not using valuable (and usually fairly scarce!) capacity in the air remembering that stuff. The sympathy for alcohol induced poor performance or perceived slacking is low/non-existent.

It's still a great job (cue some "In 1972..." posts!) and what a shame to blow it due to an avoidable cause. Ask some of the civ chopper guys out there and you'd be amazed at what they have to do to earn a buck, and the conditions they're asked to do it in - in some ways the mil option is easier in that you (probably) won't get the sack for declining a mission.

Naturally I was never involved in any shenanigans and so can preach from on high (or B.....)

SB

[RayDarr]

FFI,
Why bother with the RN? Join the RAF as a pilot, the apptitude tests are the same, and the RAF will let anybody in as an officer. Opt for Harrier, and you will end up on a ruddy RN Carrier anyway!

[scottishbeefer]

Possibly sage advice!!!

[STANDTO]

in 1987 I went to Biggin with the RAF. PAssed pilot failed nave - therefore, no flying. I really wanted to fly helo's but unless you were a FJ prospect, no go . Went for a short service regt commission but ended up PVR'ing due to recurring stress fractures.

Re-evaluated a couple of years later, and went to speak to the Navy about flying choppers. Most helpful, few chats over tea, bit of form filling, then "we'll be in touch for AIB" when I asked whether I had to go back to Biggin, the reply was " Nope, we are happy with your scores from last time"

WHAT A TW*T! if only I had some better advice in 87 and had looked after my shins a bit better!

Why I ended up as a copper in 1990, is a story of cowardice to be honest ( I was skint and they got to me before the navy) Just shows how life is full of twists and turns.

Go Navy. Wish I had at least tried

[vector801]

Hey,

I've sat FATS 4 times!!!


1998 - Short version for RN Flying Scholarship,
1999 - Failed both P & O miserably,
2001 - Passed P quite well, failed O quite badly,
2005 - Passed P superbly well, failed O by 2 marks


(Allowed last test as now the RN require a pass in both P & O for Pilot)
If you don't ask you don't get.


All the very best with your application.

V801

[Friendly fire-isn't]

Many thanks for all the replies.

They're greatly appreciated.

[UberPilot]

Hey,
I've sat FATS 4 times!!!
1998 - Short version for RN Flying Scholarship,
1999 - Failed both P & O miserably,
2001 - Passed P quite well, failed O quite badly,
2005 - Passed P superbly well, failed O by 2 marks
(Allowed last test as now the RN require a pass in both P & O for Pilot)
If you don't ask you don't get.
All the very best with your application.
V801

This is a good example of limiting the number of attempts for each candidate to 2, as there is a clear sign of improvement at each subsequent attempt.