Pilot Industrial Action in Townsville?

[TopTup]

Just heard from a mate who knows a mate..... that a company based in Townsville is facing pilot industrial action, or at least a "work to rule" situation. That's all I've heard and wondering if anyone knows more. Tried looking up the Townsville Bulletin online but nothing mentioned.

Which company? Why? Any news??

[aussie.pilot..]

There is something in today's Townsville paper.

Just saying that pilots are unhappy with the current arrangments that they are working to ie. CAO48 exemptions.

Also looking for a pay rise.

:ok:

[R.Cruizo]

I heard that too. Not the 1st time that company has had problems sadly.

[globallocal]

use to work for them, its been an ongoing issue even before i got there in may 05. its just taken this long to come to a head with the EBA offered from mang that was rejected twice buy the pilots. Mang don't give a rats about the pilots, but the pilots are the face of the company when they are not in the ville,isa, cs or vegas. I've seen many a guy smiling through clenched teeth at the pax when at domagee, MTI and the rest!! but mang never see that do they.

Go hard boys!!!! and girl!!

[TopTup]

Just discovered which company we are talking about - I know I'm a bit slow. Have had mates work for them in the past. Want to be called, labelled and advertise as an AIRLINE but pay under the GA award, not the Regional Airline Award at the very least. I thought they had an EBA in place? Not from what Globallocal has written?

Look after your staff and your staff will look after you. Staff happy = never mind going the extra yard = customers happy = improved productivity I always thought anyway.

Industrial action is the last resort and let's hope it doesn't come to that - for everyone's sake. It's a pretty cut throat market in the environment they are working in. I bet there are more than a few carriers sitting back in the wings putting in place some "what if" plans.

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

Believe in yourselves and what you are worth.

[Defenestrator]

Sorry to hear that it has come to this. Good luck guys/girls. You are most definately worth the applicable award for your efforts. Sadly it is not appreciated that a company is only as good as it's employees allow it to be. In your case it's only the way it is because of your efforts at the 'coal face'.
Stick together and be reasonable. I doubt you'll receive much civility in return however.
Best Wishes

D

[Zhaadum]

For Chrissake, will someone have the guts to actually say the company name in question? I can'/t stand the innuendo... Let everyone else outside Townsville know what/who you are talking about.:mad:

[globallocal]

SMACKAIR. there is no other Regional in townsville that employes that many pilots.

[nuhgoobala]

The news paper articles have been partially correct....apart from the work up to 18 hours a day. A CAO 48 exemption has been in place for some time, yet is a deal between CASA and the company and not with the company and the flightcrew. This allows for 16 hours of duty, with a 4 hour break. This is only one of the issues. Firstly, the company is family owned, and frontfaced by 1 man, initially partnered with a notable freight carrier in Brisbane, but not now. Offers have been made from larger NSW, and PNG operators for buyout, but have been rejected. It is marketted and operates RPT as well as charter, and as the "Largest Regional Airline in QLD", yet remunerated under the GA award for the weight capacity. The pilot body has been in negotiation as the company has evolved for the last 2 years for an honest mutual EBA, since well before the Prime Minister took it upon him self to inflict fear on the nation regarding their future, especially in this industry, where internal division and competition is savage. Company delaying and political games have occured reitterating their lack of willingness to negotiate. The body even out of good will offered that they would acknowledge the perhaps affordability of the owner, and meet half way between Regional Award and the GA. Bearing in mind that the airline in Q operates on the same capacity and with the same types as the predominate Saab and Metro NSW operator, who pay the Regional Award. It can be argued that the QLD airline operates charters and is therefore subject to the GA award, but so does the NSW counterpart as well as QF and the likes, and all also operate predominately RPT. Issues of geography and lifestyle have been used in negotiations when comparisons are made, but are counter offered with now below GA award standards and conditions. Management have mentioned that if crew are not happy with the conditions, then they should seek employment where their needs are met. :ouch: These comments and not mentioned in this forum autrocities should be considered by the new hires as this transient airline will no doubt be seeking many pilots soon as crew take their management's advice. Further advice should be to read very carefully the conditions and consider those who follow you when you accept your new employment contract. :hmm: :yuk:

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

Don't look now..................but could this be a chance for Aussie pilots to show a bit of solidarity????

Also, the more publicity that you guys can give to your cause, might just mean a reduced number of newbies knocking on the door if you do have to "seek an employer that meet's your needs!"

Where does the relevant union body stand on this?

Again, good luck!

[aussie.pilot..]

I for one am sick and tired of pilots in this country undercutting each other just to fly something bigger and better. It sets the whole industry back years just so a few people can get ahead. The most recent example is Natjet and J*.

We all need to stick together to get the industry back to an acceptable level.

Aussie Expats overseas are looking at us and laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyway thats my two cents.



Aussie

[404 Titan]

aussie.pilot..

I wouldn’t say it makes me laugh. It saddens me really. :(

[you'll be right son]

I know a few guys in this company and some of the antics that I've heard management are performing, its very disappointing.

You guys deserve much more!!

[Reverseflowkeroburna]

I know a few guys in this company and some of the antics that I've heard management are performing, its very disappointing.
Well c'mon you'll be right, help the guys & gals drum up some support by sharing these "rumours" of "management tactics!"
This is after all a "Rumour Network!" :oh:

[JetA_OK]

Offers have been made from larger NSW, and PNG operators for buyout

Who told you that?

[snoop doggy dog]

Had some mates that worked for Horizon. The boys there stuck together and kept their EBA in tact.

Didn't they give it to Crapair when they were asked to take it up the .... ?

Also heard back then that the Townsville guys had the opportunity to have the Horizon guys help them out. Obviously, they didn't take the offer of help.

There is always strength in unity. However, in aviation that's a difficult thing it seems.:(

[JetA_OK]

Did the Horizon guys a lot of good didn't it Snoop Dog :rolleyes:

[snoop doggy dog]

You must be in the know too JET !

The Horizon guys got nice payouts and the right to work wit Crapair for one or two years after they finished in Sydney.;)

I wonder why most of the Horizon guys didn't go and work for Crapair in Townsville on their Horizon conditions after their payouts ? But you would know that from reading their EBA. Ahh, that's right, most are flying for good operators now..................

[onya]

I wonder why most of the Horizon guys didn't go and work for Crapair in Townsville on their Horizon conditions after their payouts ?

For the same reasons that most of the M acair guys didn't want to go to fly for Horizon. They worked in TL cos they liked TL. Ditto for the Horizon crew WRT Sydney. And WTF has any of this got to do with a company that imploded and was rescued by the NQ operator in question. When it became aparent that Horizon was a sinking if not stinking ship (no offence meant to any of the former crews....mostly very capable drivers) it was essentially liquidated and offers of continuation of employment with the parent company were made to many. Obviously some positions were not transferable. Sure, Horizon had an EBA. So does a heap of other airlines around OZ. And the relevance to the M acair situation is?
Keep it real guys. Don't dredge up all this historical crap. It only inflames an otherwise civil discussion and achieves little.

[TopTup]

Have been away for a few days but in the mean time have been lucky enough to chat with a few ex Mac drivers, some very recently others from a time ago. There seems to be more than the usual "stick it to the man" arguement. Don't shoot the messenger but this is a kind of brief run down from a few of the conversations I have had with those ex Mac drivers.

"Some" pilots off 402's/4's C310's etc will sell their grandmother and knife their best mate in the back to get that twin turbine > 5700 kg job. They apply for the job, tell management in the interview that "I'm your man" and then in no matter of time at all join the hate management, hate the aircraft, hate the routes they fly bandwagon. If you didn't like any of it in the first place why then apply and ask / beg them for a job? And, in same instance, if you don't like it, leave. But that doesn't make it right.....

Similarly the employer buys aircraft, flies a route structure etc to maximise profits, and is always seeking ways to lower costs and improve the profit margin. Why should the pilots, especially if they have a reasonable case (and it seems they do), not do the same? It's called good business I would think. Like I said before if "they" want to market themselves, promote themselves and act like an airline then why not at a minimum pay their pilots under that award structure. If it quacks like a duck....

The Horizon thing.... not too sure of all that but Mac did "come to the rescue" of that operation it seems, but let's be honest, only as they saw a way of making money, not out of the goodness of their corporate heart. It didn't work but at least they tried and kept many pilots in work for a lot longer than otherwise. The Horizon EBA was something to behold compared to the GA Award the Mac drivers were / are getting. I understand that the person who put together that EBA is also the same who put together the former Kendall EBA. (Anyone know if this is true?? not that it really matters). Wages can be one of the higher expenses of most companies. At a pure guess it must be considered as contributing, perhaps, to the outcome of Kendalls and Horizon? Just unfounded speculation which someone may be able to qualify better. Smart girl (I believe?) for getting that EBA accepted by management or dumb management for accepting it. That's another arguement.......

Lastly, so I've been made aware of, what of the cadets at Mac? I'll bet they are not going to want to be a part of any industrial action!! PLEASE do not turn that comment into a chance for a cadet bashing scenario. Bored to death of it from previous threads.

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Wages are always the highest expense of any company and look at the outcome of Kendalls and Horizon?

BOLLOX!

How much fuel ($) does a SAAB or Death Pencil burn per hour? How much does a crew earn per hour.:cool:

Let's stay focussed.

[TopTup]

Fair point on reflection, especially when considering the aviation industry, ie running costs and expenses (aircraft costs per, and so on).

And last I checked I was staying focussed. I don't want to post random babble but sought some info before posting on the situation. Costs and salaries / wages are directly relevant to this entire thread I would think. I will edit the above incorrect satatement, so relax.

.....although in sticking with many of the PPRuNe posts it won't be long till someone gets abusive, personal or hijacks the topic.

[mnbvcxzqwertyuiop]

Ha ha! Yer M@cair made -$5M ! :p

2 different people made the Horizon and Kendells' EBAs'.... ;) No girl at Horizon put the EBA through.

Had their chance for a good EBA, M@cair boys have what they have as a result .

Horizon pitfall was one great CEO leaving and one bikkies junior trying to play CEO when the good one left.......

If they are serious, they have enough contacts in the TWU. However, there is a big division in the ranks. Cadets are bright eyed and bushy tailed, the others are starting to realise or know what a days pay is worth..............

[snoop doggy dog]

The relevance is that the pilots in TL could have have the same EBA as Horizon, at a Federal level. :(

[globallocal]

so guys and girls whats the scoop, heard a rumour that it has been rejected by mang. so the next step is????

[Niteize]

What I herd was the whole pilot group is falling apart….
At the start it was all for one and one for all but now, pilot group seem to be shrinking at a very rapid rate.

Just glad I’m not with M@cair

[nuhgoobala]

Well who is it gonna be. Remember the days of Flight West and Sunnies chasing each other around QLD, like the big brother QF and AN. When will airline reform come to Townsville, Cairns or Brisbane? So many operators, all squabling over so many routes. When will it become profitable to run a queensland airline, not owned by QF.

If there is any hope for the Mac Chaps, at least the GA award increases to the safety net next month. EBA no closer than 2 years ago. It is still proud to sell itself as the Largest Queensland Regional Airline, but just can't bear to part with a Regional Award. I don't see any joy for any newcomers, especially with it joining the pay-in game. $10k for a Metro plus a GA award, or $8k for a Dash 8 with the QF group, a regional award and the perks. It seems obvious to choose. Having said that, it has outlived all the rumors over the years since the Horizon debarcle, and still pays its drivers every month, even if its below the industry standard. It is consistant. There are a lot of good guys at Mac, and many are proud of their airline. It is a divided group though. Mortgages, next job-itis, families. It doesn't seem an environment to be a group and one voice. Maybe the "don't like it then leave" option will be the only thing left. But what for the newbee's who are forced to sign a crappy EB"A" if they want a job. "Agreement", ey?? Thanks Mr Howard. Our industry bleeds....AGAIN and AGAIN......:ouch:
I feel for them, especially if it Mcdownsizes with competition. :ugh:
A takeover.......a buyout.....is there gonna be a takeover.........?
REX, ANSETT, QRA, REGIONAL PACIFIC, ALLIANCE...........someone's gotta wonnit !!! Give them hope!!!!

[turbantime]

I don't see any joy for any newcomers, especially with it joining the pay-in game. $10k for a Metro plus a GA award

Is this true nuhgoobala? I was waiting until this dispute got settled before updating my application but if they want $10k, then I won't even bother.

Doesn't 10k for a Metro F/O endorsement sound way too much?

[BackdoorBandit]

I believe the Metro endorsment is a command and the 10K is a bond i.e. no money up front.

[Chris Higgins]

It's still a bunch of bull crap.

[BEACH KING]

Lookout.... Everyone's favorite American idiot returns!
Missed your most amusing and sometimes informative posts Chris.
But wait, in your last post there's no mention of your 25,000 hour
blue eyed blonde dirt bikes.. or your 3 kid jet command ballroom
dancing brick house with 10 ski resort internet businesses ... and not
forgetting the 106 type endorsement airline instructing heaven job
with Paris Hiltons.
The ego must be a bit jet lagged today mate

God Bless America!!

[Mr.Buzzy]

Hi there Chris
perhaps you would like to enlighten us? Why is a training bond such a bad thing, especially if it is enforced inside "reasonable" parameters?
After all, it's usually the endorsement collectors ( perhaps you? ) that return no service for an employers investment; that have called for companies to introduce such measures.

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz

[Chris Higgins]

A response that could only be written by somebody who paid for a job..or failed CPL Meteorology after being at Sydney Tech for six weeks? So do you ever think of the operation that gave birth to the crap you call a job now? Do you ever pay any respect to the families of VH-HOX as you cross over Coffs Harbour and look down over Sawtell? How many hours was Tony on duty for? Who made the decision to use it for single pilot IFR RPT without DME?

Ohhh, Beach King..yes! Four posts and you are making me feel even more famous by mentioning me yet again! I should call the Hollywood tabloids!

So how are things at Sea sick Air? Is anyone actually making any money there...or are you just "messing about in boats"? What about your company history? Do you pay your respects to the dead as well?

[BEACH KING]

Chris.. you've got it all wrong!

We love ya mate. You're an entertainment machine!! We found the advanced search function of pprune the other day and read every one
of your posts. Great stuff. My Missus (wife.. if you don't know what a missus is) reckons it was better than watching "Blue Heelers" and "All Saints" back to back (popular Australian TV shows on channel 7 if you don't know).

I actually agree with some of what you post, but unfortunately young blokes (and girls) are going to have to get used to paying for endorsements while they climb over each to try and recoup some of the huge outlays they (or their family) have forked out to get a better paid job. Until the number of students decrease and airlines have to start cadet programs, pay for job will continue to be the norm.

Hey Chris... what's with the "sea" thing.. Most Australian pilots know where brigalow suckers grow.:8

[Woomera]

Getting a little personal, girls.:suspect:

**Click**