Aircraft suggestions

[justinmg]

Would anyone care to suggest aircraft for a potential group purchase.
We would be looking for an IFR compatible touring ( 4 or 2+2)aircraft for 3 or 4 pilots, likely to fly 50-100 hours a year each. Mainly newish PPLs, but looking to fly something a bit more than the usual training type offering. Personally I would like a VP prop, cruise 120-130kt, but am not that fussed about retractable due to insurance and unpredictability.
The setting would be a 700m farmstrip with 2.5deg slope down on r/w 25. A hangar would be available.
Thoughts so far are Robin 1180, Cardinal, or an " advanced 172".
It was thought a cardinal might not manage 700m grass if 2deg upslope (anyone got a POH handy)?

If not already there, would look to get a single axis AP and fuel flow / JPI.

Any thoughts???

PS is £40k too optimistic.

[High Wing Drifter]

What about a Grumman AA5B/AA5G. Meets your spec without the complexity and expense of a VP. A super aircraft.

For something a little more different, another option within your price range is a Wassmer WA52/WA54. You would probabaly need to import one from France. Although there are W&B limitations that may make them unatractive.

Also a Robin HR100. All metal Robin with VP and I believe a whopping 10 hours endurance.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Sorry HWD.

Only aeroplane to fit that bill would of course be a Maule.

Will do the grass strip and that slope without batting an eyelid.

Cruise of 120kts no problem either.

A good one can be had for £40k or less.

Justin drop me an email if you want to have a go in ours (not for sale that one but I know a few that are!)

[justinmg]

Thanks FD!
Is it a tail dragger? Can you recommend a specific model for me to look at closer?
I may well take you up on that if it looks good.

[FullyFlapped]

I've got a cracking 172 you can have ... ;)

FF :ok:

[Johnm]

I'm mystified. No-one has suggested a Cherokee 6:confused:

[justinmg]

Thanks.
Probably would not need to haul a heavy load, so a cherokee 6 is a bit fuel heavy for the job in hand. I have looked at another thread on it, and looks great you need a load lifter.

[stiknruda]

Justinmg,

The -6 is a seriously under rated aircraft - roomy comfortable and refined WITH very long legs, south of France, piece of ease!

If interested do send me a PM as I may just know of a very, very nice one coming on the market, soon.

Club seating for four, passenger door, 10 hours on an overhauled 260 IO540 - good combination of power/fuel consumption/load lifting with the smoothness of a 6 cylinder motor.

I spend a lot of my airborne time hanging upside down behind an AEIO360, 4 cylinder Lycoming. Occassionaly I get to do the same behind a 6 cylinder IO540. The 6 banger is so much more smoother than the 4 cylinder model.

Having recently been reacquainted with the -6 after a long time, I love this aeroplane and it's not remotely aerobatic but it is smooth!


Stik

[IO540]

Depends hugely on the budget. Also there aren't many planes suitable for what one might call "real IFR" which you want to operate from 700m grass (i.e. mud during a large part of the year in the UK).

There isn't an insurance issue with retractables, and again not going for a complex aircraft limits the field if IFR is desired.

Except for not wanting to operate something half decent from mud, a TB20 is very very hard to beat for excellent IFR capability combined with versatility (500m tarmac at MTOW).

[Tarq57]

How about a C182? Good cruise, comfy, rugged, and a honey on strips. Whats the overshoot/overrun area at the top of the strip like?

[Kyprianos Biris]

Except for not wanting to operate something half decent from mud, a TB20 is very very hard to beat for excellent IFR capability combined with versatility (500m tarmac at MTOW).

I'll agree with IO540. You can also get what you want from a Socata TB10.
Checkout their users' group message board and you'll figure out yourself.
www.socata.org

[Flyin'Dutch']

TB10 is a lovely machine but a ground hog.
Would not be my first choice for a 700m strip.

[justinmg]

How about a C182? Good cruise, comfy, rugged, and a honey on strips. Whats the overshoot/overrun area at the top of the strip like?

Funny you guys should mention those two.
The 2 nicer aircraft at the strip are indeed a TB20 and a 182 retractable.

The 182 has great shortfield performance, but there is no over run at the end of the 25 downhill. Thankfully there is unlimited undershoot, with a smooth unfenced field at the top, so bringing it in low and planting it at the start of the 700m is OK.

The aircraft need not be a dyed in the wool IFR tourer, as it will spend imited amounts of time in cloud. Just needs to be capable enough to handle it when required ( I know the pilots capability is more important).

I know a TB20 is well out of the range, and I suspect a 182 would be verging on unavailable.

I suspect a 360 engine rather than a 540 would help keep the running costs managable and hence more flying per year.

[LowNSlow]

What about a Reims Rocket? Six cylinder smoothness, wobbly prop and the good old 172 airframe that every engineer knows. Excellent short strip machine for around 40k fr a good one.

[IO540]

As usual in these threads, everybody will suggest their favourite plane :O

But a 540 doesn't cost much more to run. The extra hourly cost (engine TBO) is 5-10 quid an hour over a 360. And you can do 138kt IAS (about 60% power, say 155KT TAS at 10000ft) on 10.5 US gals/hr. Compare that with the alternatives; well those that you can get reliable fuel flow data. I used to burn that much (in terms of MPG) in an Archer, but a PA28 doesn't even begin to compare with a TB20 in terms of capability, versatility, comfort, access, passenger acceptance, you name it.

Also Socata prices are pretty low right now.

Still, no mention of a budget. If it is 30k and you call popping into cloud "IFR" then a C152 will do the job :O

[effortless]

You can also get what you want from a Socata TB10.
Have to agree with this one. I have flown one from a v. short field on top of a mountain in Germany. Absolutely trouble free.

[Flyin'Dutch']

I have flown one from a v. short field on top of a mountain in Germany. Absolutely trouble free.

I would be surprised if that was anywhere near MAUW

[effortless]

I would be surprised if that was anywhere near MAUW

Fair enough, two up and the mountain wasn't exactly high. There was another Socata there which was used as a tug. It went four up with no bother. I am not light and I got a back seat in it. I cannot remember which type though.

[High Wing Drifter]

Just read this month's Pilot. It seems a Super Navion would fit the bill perfectly!