Oxford (OAT) 'Skills Assessment' or Selection

[link4]

Hi all,
Before i start i am aware of the thread about loans which i have carefully read, but my dilemma is slightly different....
I have a date set for the Selection process with OAT next month, however i have recieved a letter confirming this, and one of the requirements states that a property or a parental guarantee is needed in order to secure the loan :uhoh:
I'm 18 and hold a PPL, and like many other 18yr olds dont have a property as equity, and i dont however want to at all use my parents as a guarantee as its my dream not theirs, and i dont want to risk that. I hear a lot and have read myself on how OAT pride themselves of choosing candidates capable of being an Airline PIlot for their apititude and not if they have £50-60 at their disposal.
My question is hopefully if i get accepted in OAT for the APP, and i dont currently have a property and my parents are not in a situation to secure that amount of money, what will happen? :sad:
All help is greatly appreciated, thanks all

[BOZZATO]

Hi there Link!

The only financial assistance that HSBC could offer would be the unsecured loan which has a maximum limit of 25K!

I really don't know what else to suggest, have you spoke to your parents about the possibility of re mortgaging their house?

Sorry i'm not very much help:confused:

All the best and good luck with your assessment, you'll really enjoy it!

Regards

Bozzato:ok:

[porridge]

Some years ago there was a company based in the Netherlands that ran a similar scheme. They ran pilot selection tests and charged for them here in the UK. However, no-one in the UK managed to get 'selected'; it seemed that only Dutch nationals possessed the necessary abilities despite hundreds of local people parting with a fairly sizeable fee for the process. It turned out later that the bank providing the loans was a Dutch Bank and it was thus necessary to secure the loan against the candidates parents' property, Hence that was why no locals ever made the grade. It of course came to light, via PPRuNe of course, and the company (European Pilot Training and Selection, I think it was) had to stop their fairly lucrative little venture in the UK. It did not stop quite large number of Dutch nationals from getting jobs with UK carriers as they also had a cosy arrangement with CTC, so their clients would almost certainly get the nod from CTC via recommendations to the client airlines, that many say was skewed in the EPTS client’s favour. It also turned out the financial institution had certain guarantees from EPTS that the students would get a virtual 100% chance of getting a job at the end of the programme.
Now I don’t know a lot about the scheme from OATS that you are referring to, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is run very much along the same philosophies.
Unfortunately as the lyrics of the famous ditty goes: “It’s the rich what gets the pleasure and the poor that gets the blame”.

[bishop99]

Hi all,

Im going for my oxford skills assessment on the 1st-2nd of Feb. I was wondering if any knew if a CV/portfolio of achievement was needed/helpful for the interview section???

Also wondering if anyone was going for theirs on the same dates? As i would be good to get to know some names, so breaking the ice on wednesday morning is a little easier.

Thanks Alot :)

James

[bishop99]

Just realised a few mistakes, so before anyone says, i apoligise.

[adwjenk]

Hi

All i took with me to me OAT assesment was:
Log book to show flying experiance
GCSE and A/S level results as well as any other qualifications eg BTEC.
No CV required or personal statment if your one of the youngsters.
Also your class 1 medical if you have it and passport.

Thats all, it would not help in the interview cause them ask a set pattern oof questions which i can't remember what it is though sorry!
Also you give a 3minute talk about urself to the group on day 2 and they seem to get alot of personal information from that! The 3 min talk its about you, your background, carrer, hobbys etc....

Best of luck

[stue]

adwjenk has summed it up. Thats all i took with me to. You dont really need anything else. Just make sure that you are good at long division, multiplication etc. with out a calculator. You need to be quite quick at it. nothing that cant be brushed up on a cupple of days before though.

Good Luck!:ok:

[bishop99]

Cool cool, thanks for your help and advice.

James:)

[SP2006]

Just Wondering How You Went On At Oat Skills Test?

[bishop99]

Hi.

I passed my skills assesment thanks,hopefully going to OAT the 29th of Aug. But really enjoyed it, had a good laugh as well. :ok:

Cheers

James

[link4]

Just outa curiousity does anyone know what would happen in the event if one successfully passes the selection process, but is unable to get the full amount of the loan, but only the 25K unsecured, since oxford pride themselves on only recruiting cadets who have an aptitude to be a pilot, surely they will not turn one down will they? Thought just sprung to mind :confused:

All help appreciated thanks in advanced :ok:

[RVR800]

You've got to be joking. They wont refuse your money whatever. They areent employing you. You are a paying customer.

[link4]

If what your saying is the case than thats brilliant, so your saying that they wouldnt turn down even if a parental guarantee or security on a property cannot b put in place?

[Blinkz]

rvr i think is missing the point. If you don't pass the selection then they won't let you in, but you will usually be allowed another chance to pass selection, depending that you fail. If you have already passed selection but cannot find a way to secure all the money then I'm afraid OAT ain't going to let you start. They are a company so don't give things out for free. They will give you all the advice they can about getting loans/saving money etc but in the end it is all down to you to find the money.

[mcgoo]

if ive read your post correctly, are you hoping that if you have the aptitude but not all the money oat will still train you, if so i think not!

[stue]

OAT doesnt lend anyone any money, HSBC does. As Blinkz said, they are a company, and are there to make money. Whos money you come to them with doesnt matter, but you have got to come to them with it all. Just because you have passed the selection doesnt mean you are guaranteed a place on a course, a cheque does.

I know it is unfortunate if you cant get the full loan and you need to but thats the way it works. You just need to drum up the cash. They may have some special cases though, you could always go and ask them?

Good luck though with it link4!:)

[Muddy Boots]

Am I right in reading this as you have 25K secured but thats it?

Why not go down the modular route and build up to your fATPL as you go, much cheaper?

Or why not go to one of the US schools like Riverside OK, Orlando Flight Training FL or UK Flight Training in Long Beach CA?

But one thing for sure, Oxford won't carry for the balance no matter how talented you are, I can't think of any school that would apart from the military!

[link4]

Thanks for the advice guys, i'll look into asking OAT about some advice regarding finance from HSBC

[just_go_to]

Without security the maximum you can get from HSBC is £25k. This info is directly from HSBC Oxford (OAT) and HSBC Milton-Keynes (Cabair).

The only way that I know to get an unsecured loan for an integrated course is by getting accepted onto one of the infrequent airline associated schemes that are run at OAT, FTE, and Cabair.

You could also look at the CTC Wings scheme.

[thomasa]

Am just wondering if any other Ppruners out there will be at the Oxford aviation assessment days (22nd-23rd) this week? :)
Regards
Alex T

[ANDRE25i]

Considering the fact I live in Australia; I hardly know the aviation scene in the UK. I was hoping that perhaps someone could shed some light on this "oxford air training school?" if it exists; hope you know what I mean, i might have neglected a word or something.....
Is it the elite training school to get into? Does your flag carrier have a track record of employing pilots from there? not directly of course
what do you have to undergo to get in? how hard is it to get in? how competitive?

thanks in advance, cheers

[WingDown]

Have a look at www.oxfordaviation.net, Oxford Air Trainings website. It should answer most your questions. Also use the search function, there its a wealth of information on OAT.

WD

[hedges81]

OAT likes to promote itself as "the elite" school in the UK through a very strong marketing and advertising campaign, whether or not this is the case cannot really be proven quantitatiely, however we all know that advertising claims should not necessarily be taken as the absolute truth. They like to make out that their school is hard to get into with a 2 day selection process, but perhaps this is not really necessary and is there to add to their portrayed image. It would be interesting to find out exactly what percentage of applicants fail to get through the selection process, Id guess less than half.

It is certainly the most expensive school in the UK, possibly in the world?
The integrated course costs I think upward of 60,000 pounds!
This is about 15,000 pounds more than other integrated courses at Cabair in Bedford and Flight Training Europe in Spain, and about 30,000 pounds more than a modular course, where you can fly the same planes and end up with the same amount of hours and the same licenses. Also bear in mind that the quality of the training you receive is more directly linked to the individual instructor you work with. A school which operates out of a tin shed with a first class instructor will train you better than one with fancy facilities, such as Oxford if the instructor you have is rubbish.
Another claim that Oxford aviation like to make is that they have "airline connections", which give trainees a better chance of finding a job afterwards. This may or may not be the case, but don´t think that going to a school other than Oxford will give you a significantly worse chance of finding a job, as their marketing tactics will attempt to lead you to believe, perhaps not directly, but through the power of suggestion. It is certainly not the case that every airline pilot flying for UK operators came through Oxford.

Some UK alternatives, which I understand provide first class training are:

Integrated
Cabair: www.cabair.com
Flight Training Europe, www.flighttrainingeurope.com

Modular
Stapleford Flying Club: www.flysfc.com

As a final thought, for some interesting debate on the subject of OAT, do a search for posts by "King Rooney".

[Muddy Boots]

When I did my OAT selection about 40% of the guys were rejected and of them we lost some good men. Their selection is tougher than FTE who do it in only one day and have none of the team building, no sim flight and you're allowed a calculator.

Oxford's attitude is if you take rubbish in you get rubbish out. You may have taught them how to be a pilot but maybe not how to fly and fit in and get a job! Which of course would ruin there stats!

Muddy Boots

[ANDRE25i]

Thank you for the threads in response. I appreciate it. I definitely will do some more research. After reading what has been said; I would consider my flight training organisation in Australia; to be roughly the same in terms of ranking; how they are perceived; and so forth......... from an Australian's point of view.

cheers

[ucankurbaga]

I am about to take OAT Skills assesment for 2nd time in few months after failing first attempt. But i am puzzled after these comments. OAT seemed decent. I don't know much about Cabair, so i can't comment on that. But any1 here training there can give us info about i am happy to hear. There should always be alternatives anyway. Does Cabair fully support you to find job after graduate?

"Oxford's attitude is if you take rubbish in you get rubbish out. You may have taught them how to be a pilot but maybe not how to fly and fit in and get a job! Which of course would ruin there stats!"

Moody Boots, i didn't actually understand whether this means good about OAT or not, could you be more specific please?

[Send Clowns]

Sounds like lack of dedication to me. Anyone can turn selected candidates into CPL/IR holders. The trick is to take people who struggled with maths at school and get them through the ATPL exams, and people who are simply lovers of aviation, self-selecting, and make them into true pilots.if you take rubbish in you get rubbish outNone of the students I ever taught at ATPL groundschool could be described as rubbbish at any stage, although I suspect some had failed the OAT selection. The vast majority now have licences or are on the way there, most of those who finished now seem to be getting jobs, and praise from employers in proper flying (like the one who did my new job before me) so we certainly didn't "get rubbish out"!

[straightnotlevel]

shouldnt this be cash selection?

[asuweb]

hedges81 - do you have a partiucular grudge against OAT?

[bishop99]

Hedges can i ask did you not make it into oxford??

Well u said "You may have taught them how to be a pilot but maybe not how to fly and fit in and get a job! Which of course would ruin there stats!"

Well they do teach you, they have first officer fundementals for two weeks of the course before you do your IR. I believe OAT is a very professional organisation, who make FO, and future Captains not just pilots.

If they want to be selected they can be, they are a private company!

If you look at the figures Cabair is £52,000 (which is inc vat) which is £8,000 difference.(not that much difference!!!) And Flight school jerez costs just over £63,000. (although tht includes accom) Yet again still not the £15,000 quote you gave us!!

Have you visited oxford? Have you sat in a lesson? if you have looked at there stats then with over a 85% grade average they are not bad instructors are they!!

And how can you compare Intergrated with the prices of modular courses??Everyone in the Aviation world realises that theres a large price difference!!

ucankurbaga best of luck with the assessment!

[asuweb]

Well said Bishop99

[Daisy-Florence]

Heya!

Anyone else doing the Oxford Aviation Skills assesment on the 12th-13th December?

I am! Really scared too as I failed the CabAir one in August :{

Still, been doing little hand eye coordination tests etc and practising my maths. :8

Any advice would be appreciated too!

x x x