ASIC's

[wombat13]

Any ideas on the speed of issuing these cards? I know there was some logistical problems early on. Have these been sorted?

[Woomera]

Have you applied yet?

If not have you been living in a remote mountain top cave the last 6 mths?:ok:

Plan on 3+ mths....better yet PRAY!!:{ :ugh: :cool:

Ethereal Woomera

[paulthornton]

Any ideas on how much longer those of us who aren't Aussie born and bred will take to get one? I applied in November and haven't heard anything yet except for a letter telling me that they are jolly busy and everyone is working very hard to get them out at some undefined point in the far future.

Getting my AVID & photo license issued seemed to take an absolute eternity - I shudder to think how much longer this might take :ugh:

Paul.

[Chadzat]

my application went throughon the 1st of August! :hmm: So keep waiting paulthornton!

[NNB]

don't hold your breath - I first applied Jan 18th, 2005 and have updated my paperwork in line with C'wealth Gov't (AFP) demands and all I get from my follow up phone calls is " there is a big que and we are working through it" so go figure...??
With March looming and NO photo ID or ASIC card it is going to be fun getting onto and aound by private air

gr...gr...gr...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[SeaCaptain]

Arrrggghhh me maties,

Try taking to the high seas.....no casa, no asics, in fact i'll let you all in on a little secret.....I not even a real sea captain!

Let strong winds always fill your sails!

Arrgghhh

[DeltaSix]

Why don't we all just tell them to stick it up their A***s and forget the whole thing. You'll probably wait for another year.

D6

[THE CONTRACTOR]

From CASA and I quote" Yeah there suppose to be all out in the mail by the end of March, but I don't know, and that's what we have to tell everybody".
So I paid over $100 for a stinkin service that nobody knows. My medical, I pay over $100 dollars again and it arrives 2 days after my 2 months DAME extension expired. Great circus they got going. Stick ya service up ya rrrrssss.

[Pinky the pilot]

I would'nt blame CASA for any of this crap! They are merely attempting with the resources that they have to implement decisions made by the idiots whom inhabit the place which might best be described as 'Cowards Castle' in Canberra.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[vh_ajm]

Yep, submitted licence application late October and form 639 (the ASIC one) the day after it got sent out. Like everyone else, still waiting. Apparently the bottleneck is at ASIO/AFP, not CASA though the net result is still the same. Recently rang CASA and they told me to write in. No reply yet. No hope really either...

[TLAW]

Yep, submitted licence application late October and form 639 (the ASIC one) the day after it got sent out. Like everyone else, still waiting. Apparently the bottleneck is at ASIO/AFP, not CASA though the net result is still the same. Recently rang CASA and they told me to write in. No reply yet. No hope really either...

Same boat.

[OpsNormal]

I would'nt blame CASA for any of this crap! They are merely attempting with the resources that they have to implement decisions made by the idiots whom inhabit the place which might best be described as 'Cowards Castle' in Canberra.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

Pinky's onto it.

Kid you people not. We put two ASIC applications in in very late Dec and we got them this week. There is no rhyme nor reason when compared to some of the tales of woe, but that is what happened. We got them back quite quickly.

However, did put a photo lic application in Sept last year and still waiting.

[QNIM]

Gday
Anybody want to take up a book, betcha about half way though March the wackers will realise they are pissing into the wind and will extend the deadline till god knows when. But we have to protect ourselves. Had a look around Warrnambool the other day nice high pool fence around the terminal but if you wish to enter the tarmac area just walk around the hangars and step over a 2’6” chain barrier, what a load of crapp.
Just remember the majority voted these idiots in at the last election so we just have to put up with them.
Have a nice day.
Cheers Q :{

[185skywagon]

Gday
Just remember the majority voted these idiots in at the last election so we just have to put up with them.
:{
Do you honestly think it would have been any different if the other lot were in power??

[dude65]

I can't even remember when I sent the ASIC application in.I think it was early November. Nothing yet ,and I'm not expecting anything in the near future. Do have the AVID though -lucky me.
Pinky is correct in that this is not CASA's doing.
Some mental giant decided that if they issued a photo licence,then an AVID card and then an ASIC card ,this would be the most effficient way to combat terrorism in this country. They then go and lob all this on CASA and tell them to get it sorted by Dec. 2005.
How anyone could sit back, seriously look at this, and then say to themselves "well that'll work", has got me beat.

[Victa Bravo]

The clock keeps on ticking as March looms near and the majority is yet to get their pathetic political passes.

Once the dead line passes what are those people, that are still to receive them, going to do? Give up their jobs, past times and way of life?

I for one won't bat an eyelid when it comes to rocking up to an airport that is supposedly (according to who?) at an elevated risk of terrorism?

If I need to........ NO BUGGER THEM......... WANT TO........ go to Coffs for the weekend or Dubbo for the day then I'm going to! ASIC or not.

All pilots need to band together on this issue.

WE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG HERE PEOPLE!!!

We've done what was required of us. We've filled in the forms (on several occasions for some) we've payed our money, we've waited long enough!

When will mine turn up??????? Don't care!!!! Just don't expect me to wear it until I get it, ya big bunch of dumb rrrrses!!


You know it makes sense!

VB

[AusFlygal]

Yes, still waiting for mine too...not holding my breath.

My cynical side expects that if the deadline is not extended past March, you can bet your bottom dollar that on 1 April, CASA inspectors will be at those nominated airports in droves.

Perhaps something to consider.

:{

[DeltaSix]

VB - hear, hear !!!

If we put up with this, soon they will tell our employers not to let you fly till you have it. I fear that day might come. I can only hope not.

D6

[Chimbu chuckles]

But D6 imagine the bun fight if DOTARs tried that little number on the employers?

It's one thing to make the lives of your employees a little more stressfull but quite another to restrain trade because of beaurocratic incompetence....I'd laugh myself hoarse if, come Mar 31, DOTARs were so stupid...it would be hillarious.

[QNIM]

Gday 185skywagon
Givus a break I won’t get into that argument, but if those others ever get back in I think suicide seems the logical step, been there before and hopefully never again.
I still reserve the right of my opinion of those that are in with decisions like this rubbish that we have put up with.
I still reckon in a couple of weeks we will get another extension for a long time.
On another subject anyone got a link to this very naughty cartoon that’s got those that we need to be protected from, got very upset about.
Cheers Q

[Boris7]

Try the Blogg: http://timblair.net no w's

[DeltaSix]

Chuckles - yep, I can just imagine the bun fight if they impose that. But then again, it worries me as they are so stupid, it might actually happen.


D6

[ANDRE25i]

If your under 18, theres no need for one right?

[Chadzat]

Correct, you will still need an AVID though.

If you are 17 years and 364 days old you are not a security threat, if you are 18 years and 1 day old then you may very well use an aircraft in anger.

[cessna 152 pilot]

I am under 18 and have still sent away for one. Waiting a while, but didn't have to pay. But does that mean when i do turn 18 i only have to pay for the re-newal???

[Ando1Bar]

It's possible you've only applied for a student pilot licence, not an AVID, due to your age. You may want to clarify your application with CASA because this is a very grey area (whether they give AVIDs to under 18s).

Chances are you'll have to re-apply when you turn 18, but be aware that any delay in getting your AVID will stop you flying solo.

[Victa Bravo]

Common sense suggests that you wouldn't need to apply for another ASIC once you turn 18 since you are still the same person.

That's common sense.....

In other words get ready to apply, wait, re-apply, pay, wait some more all over again for another piece of plastic that insures that you’re not a terrorist. (Cause terrorists wouldn't have thought about getting an ASIC and that's how we can tell who the baddies are!!)


You know it makes sense!

VB

[bilbert]

Anyone know if any professional pilot has ever been refused an ASIC?. How about any private pilots?. If not, then why weren't all pilots issued with a temporary one automatically (like airside groundstaff) and then go through the security check procedure rather than extend deadlines for pilots without an ASIC which has the same effect.

[inxs]

I would'nt blame CASA for any of this crap! They are merely attempting with the resources that they have to implement decisions made by the idiots whom inhabit the place which might best be described as 'Cowards Castle' in Canberra.
You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.


You got that right Pinky - don't blame the staff, they got lumbered with all this stuff from `the suits' up top.

[RV6]

Got a call from CASA this morning telling me thay can't process my ASIC application because "the system shows the photographs are more than 6 months old" - please get new photos certified and fill in page 3 again and send it to CB.

It's so long since I applied for the ASIC my memory is hazy, but I don't think I sent them any pix because I already had a recently issued AVID so the form said that was all they needed. Any way - if they hadn't taken so long to get round to processing my application, the pix wouldn't be 6 months old!

I'm tempted to tell them "no thanks - I'd like my money back" - I note my credit card was debited the fee last month. Might be waiting even longer for that,though.

What a complete, incompetent farce! :*

[currawong]

Similar experience, RV6.

Applied for AVID with current ASIC. Told ok but going to bottom of pile as already ASIC holder. By the time it worked its way to the top of the pile, ASIC expired, apply again.

Except, despite following all their instructions to the letter, they would not tell me exactly why I had to apply again. Just given some hazy answer about my ASIC not being "right".

Followed progress week by week.

Application languished for several weeks prior to going to the AFP.

Application languished for several weeks upon return from AFP.

Expect ASIC application to be handled in a similar manner.

[Ultralights]

i appled for mine way back in MAY 05, in mid december, still no joy, nothing, rang CASA and told my application was LOST..:mad: :mad: :mad: its not a pleasent feeling knowing some arseh0le beaurocrat has all my personal details somewhere!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
security check passed for my Dept of defence ID, alls well there, but thats not good enough for CASA/DOTARS! after being told i have to resubmit all my paperwork, i have decided to fu(k em all. havnt even bothered thinking about getting a new ASIC/AVID im pretty sure my DoD card will get me past the brainless rent a cop drop outs.

[rmcdonal]

im pretty sure my DoD card will get me past the brainless rent a cop drop outs And if it doesn't then at least you can get into the armory to vent some anger. :E :}

[TLAW]

If this happened in any other industry there would be a public scandal. Imagine the same thing happening to all those boaties out there, or commercial fishing licences, or truck drivers licences, or taxi drivers licences. There would be blockades, demonstrations, media pieces...instead, silence.

Currently waiting 4 months for my licence to be issued.

[currawong]

TLAW you are correct.

The operational side of this industry cops it hard, be it politically, bureaucratically, in the media, etc etc.

Perhaps it is because to them, we seem to like it. Or at least don't mind it.:rolleyes:

The regulator has us; they can pull our tickets. In several ways, now.

Management has us; they can sack us and have us replaced by the end of the day.

Govt. has us; just like they have everyone else.:yuk:

[DeltaSix]

Currawong, I agree...... we're totally screwed.

Maybe we should all send them a letter to the pollies how farcical this idea is and how it is affecting all of us. Guys, it's just a matter of time till someone loses a job or gets affected severely because of this non sense they have imposed on us.

Or maybe I should take this to A Current Affair or Today Tonight and see what their reaction is. This is a total insult to us. First they brand us as possible terrorists for imposing this on us, then they take our money as a revenue exercise, puts unnecessary pressure on the AFP, and then stuff us around with their incompetence and red tape. How stupid can this get ?... this is getting beyond the joke.

The AFP is suppose to be working to find sleeper cells of terrorists and not checking pilots who I might add are the actual targets if they manage to breakdown or get in through the cockpit door.


D6

[Towering Q]

My cynical side expects that if the deadline is not extended past March, you can bet your bottom dollar that on 1 April, CASA inspectors will be at those nominated airports in droves.


April 1, what an entirely appropriate day.:ok:

[BD1959]

Pity the new PPLs......

Their licenses are being withheld until the ASIC comes through....we all know how long that can take. Spend 1000s getting the licence and then months waiting to be able to exercise it. Despite the fact that CASA has cleared the individual into Controlled Airports (courtesy of the letter issued to them) they refuse to extend that permission to the full licence. As far as I can tell speaking with CASA, this is their procedure which is biting.

Can you imagine the outcry if all Probationary Drivers were being held back for months because the State Govt had decided that they needed a Police check first?

BD

[gaunty]

Might stick my neck out here.

Been more than a little involved in playing chasy here.

I can assure you it is being taken very seriously by the Minister, DOTARS and CASA. A very high level exec has been given carriage of the issue and the means to make sure it moves forward between the Departments.

Neither CASA nor DOTARS invented this requirement it was imposed on the industry by Government and placed an even heavier burden on an already overloaded ASIO, police and security assets.

Yes there have been some stuff ups, false starts and so on but give em a break, they have to maintain quality control and an orderly process lest it descend into total chaos.

All of the Depts are aware of all the wrinkles now, they have to play the cards they are dealt so how about we start understanding their plight and be patient.

If you've got a problem with the idea go tell it to John Howard and his Government, the opposition have been quiet on it because apart from some cheap shots in it I suspect they are bipartisan on the principle.

They have made the announcements, they have moved where they can, but as far as I can tell it is not negotiable in principle.

We just have to leave it to the professional PS to sort out as fast as they can. They have been downsizing getting real lean for a long time, then they are given a task that requires resources they don't have in the time available without the money to fund it or the time to train em.

You can't get two pints out of a pint pot, well not easily anyway and you can bet your bippy that the Minister does not want to have to do a mea culpa and/or another "extension":{

When this has been tidied up, look forward to some progress in the way licensing can be handled in the future. Now is not the time.

[currawong]

Appreciate that gaunty.

It is the hypocracy that is annoying.

In my world, a "stuff up" means dead. A "false start" is maybe only a crash.

A "wrinkle" a show cause - AOC or license.

To be told "we lost it, resubmit application" or to get two different answers to the same question to the same department on the same day is frankly unacceptable.

If I were to handle my dealings with said department in a similar fashion it would not be tolerated.

And yet it is OK for them.

[TLAW]

Gaunty,

I understand that CASA, DOTARs, ASIO, AFP, et al, are not the root cause of the delay - they have been given a hospital pass at the eleventh hour.

Nevertheless, in my experience, silence is often regarded as consent. I have made my views known to the Minister, although he has not seen fit to do the same to me, as yet. People are getting stuffed around, at the same time as being slugged with new costs and charges, and they have a right to feel angry about it.

The fact remains - the departments involved were not given the proper resources to handle the job, even though elemental maths should have given an indication of the magnitude of the task.

In the meantime the silence from the Minister and those involved has been deafening. I believe you when you say it has been taken very seriously and that wheels are in motion to do something about it, but apart from your word, what evidence do I have? And if it hadn't been for people writing, phoning, emailing, would the issue be taken so seriously?

In the meantime I shall wait - what choice do I have?

[gaunty]

TLAW

Point taken;

I understand that CASA, DOTARs, ASIO, AFP, et al, are not the root cause of the delay - they have been given a hospital pass at the eleventh hour. true but only after it was made very clear to the Minister that there was never ever and no possibility that there could be compliance within a deadline set a year or so before without any real idea then of the complexities involved.

I have made my views known to the Minister, although he has not seen fit to do the same to me, as yet. I suspect you and many thousands of others, hence no reply, buit it would certainly have reinforced what his agencies have been telling him.:ok:

People are getting stuffed around, at the same time as being slugged with new costs and charges, and they have a right to feel angry about it. ASICS and the proposed new charges are actually two separate issues, but if you are already cross about one it would be easy to stay cross about the other.

I believe you when you say it has been taken very seriously and that wheels are in motion to do something about it, but apart from your word, what evidence do I have? I did say I was sticking my neck out, like you I hope the evidence or some form of solution, is forthcoming in time.
I promise you if it is not there will be merry hell to pay and it wont be just me, there will be massive non compliance/civil disobedience and if they get hard nosed about it they will be in the courts for the next century or so.

And if it hadn't been for people writing, phoning, emailing, would the issue be taken so seriously yes and yes.:rolleyes:

Yes the people writing and phoning confirmed something they already knew and yes it was always taken seriously.
Problem is coordinating the system, process and operators CASA, DOTARs, ASIO, AFP, and a hundred or so Airport owners and operators across Australia et al, ALL having different priorities, responsibilities and agenda.:{
Is it any wonder the people ultimately responsible might be a little battle fatigued.

In 2002 when Minister Anderson made the first announcement about the security requirement Bruce Gemmel then CASA CEO rang me that morning in my capacity as an AOPA VP to give us a heads up and to reassure me that whilst this was NOT a CASA intitiative, they would be working closely with us to mitigate any problems and that they and the appropriate agencies did not yet have any details of the implementation nor had the manner of its application yet been established.

If you want an overview of the work required and the background have a wander around in here.

It might give you an appreciation of the scope.

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/index.aspx

[inxs]

Got a call from CASA this morning telling me thay can't process my ASIC application because "the system shows the photographs are more than 6 months old" - please get new photos certified and fill in page 3 again and send it to CB.
It's so long since I applied for the ASIC my memory is hazy, but I don't think I sent them any pix because I already had a recently issued AVID so the form said that was all they needed. Any way - if they hadn't taken so long to get round to processing my application, the pix wouldn't be 6 months old!
I'm tempted to tell them "no thanks - I'd like my money back" - I note my credit card was debited the fee last month. Might be waiting even longer for that,though.
What a complete, incompetent farce! :*
Once all you morons learn to spell, read ALL the instructions and filled out the forms correctly (you supposed to be pilots - right ??), you will find that your application would go through without a hitch. Most applications are held up due to incompetence in filling out the forms correctly and that includes the instruction, that a photo not be any older than 6 months - can any of you idiots get this through your thick heads ?!
Your aplication is one of 11,000+ others and therefore try giving them a bit of slack.

[TLAW]

Gaunty,
Thanks for your well thought out reply - I can see we are of one mind here. I have also read in Australian Aviation that we are not alone in thinking all this.
inxs
Once all you morons learn to spell
Your aplication is one
Thanks for your insightful comment :ok:

[currawong]

inxs,

my AVID paperwork was error free, yet it took seven months to get a result.

There was a glitch at every stage.

1/ person that received application unaware of website instructions

2/ next person failed to read past page one of application

3/ while application languished in line, "lifed" paper work went "time-ex".

4/ resubmitted, confirmed received, subsequently lost

Do you want me to continue?

OK, when it finally turned up, it was incorrect and had to be re-issued.

I gave them slack the whole way through.

[inxs]

[QUOTE]Pinky is correct in that this is not CASA's doing.
Some mental giant decided that if they issued a photo licence,then an AVID card and then an ASIC card ,this would be the most effficient way to combat terrorism in this country. They then go and lob all this on CASA and tell them to get it sorted by Dec. 2005.

Well, there you go guys, I'm a moron and an idiot too (which is no great surprise to me..) but it was the powers to be that thought it was a good idea to take it off DoTARS and drop it into the lap of CASA while they were struggling with Centralisation of flight crew licensing in Canberra. Consequently, their workloads just spiralled out of control at a time when BB started to retrench CASA staff. Therefore, with no extra staff except maybe for a handful of temps that probably come & go through the front door, they needed this like a "hole in the head". My point being, we shouldn't abuse the staff there, they are working their guts out in trying to keep up the pace.
All this doesn't excuse the `suits' up top from making these outrageous and unachievable decisions. Mind you, you can still fly this year if you have an AVID, an ASIC is not compulsory.
Don't be surprised to see another extension from the 31 March....

[Islander Jock]

Don't be surprised to see another extension from the 31 March....
I won't be surprised because people who are supposed to be enforcing this have already been told otherwise. ;)

[puff]

At the rate their going by the time they get to my application the photo WILL be over 6 months old!

[Flyboy11]

It's CASA's, DOTARS, AFP and most of all the Government's fault that nobody has been issued with an ASIC yet ! And no don't give them any "slack", see thats the entire problem they are all very slack at their jobs, that's why this mess was created in the first place.

Browsing these and other forums I'm yet to see a post by somebody who actually has one, and that includes people who have applied over 12 months ago !!

I don't give a stuff but cause in the meantime I'm still flying.

If all these Government beaurocracies cant get their act together then it's entirely their problem.

I've been waiting over 2 months for my licence AVID/ASIC and I'm not about to throw my hands in the air and stop flying cause they can't produce me a licence and ID document that could be produced better by a five year old with some faber castel coloured pencils.

Do you think CASA will pay for a Bi-ennial or check flight because your currency has run out while you wait for them to pull their finger out ? I don't think so, so go fly, stuff em !

I'm also not going to waste my time writing to goverment ministers and departments, cause they don't listen. I think my energy is much better spent by going for a fly and proving that what they are trying to implement is not going to stop what they are trying to stop.

Flyboy11

[rmcdonal]

a licence and ID document that could be produced better by a five year old with some faber castel coloured pencils.
:ok: :ok: :ok: Love it.

[dude65]

I don't know where you sit in the food chain INXS. I'm certainly not blaming CASA for this monumental balls up. Someone made the decision to approach this issue (pilot ID's) by over regulating,over governing and then over legislating.

Personally I've no gripe with CASA. I don't have a shoot the messenger mentality like some. I sent an e-mail to them over the weekend and had a response by 10.00 Monday morning. They're doing their best with what little resources the Government has allocated them.

[THE CONTRACTOR]

It's all a bit bolics really. Firstly, it was the flying instructors in the United States that passed on information to the CIA/FBI about some luney who only wanted to learn how to take off, consequently the CIA/FBI did nothing about it and there you have it 11/11. Secondly, the Visacard/ passport/ and licence fraud is absolutely ripe, what makes people think that all this nonsense about background checks will make it harder for someone to perform terrorist activety. Yeah, and before anyone says it, it is all about public perception. "We have all this in place, and nope won't happen here". Bolics, take a look at a major airports, anyone could sneek through with halfwit security guards who couldn't give a shut standing at the gate. And to make cabin and flight crew front up through security and baggage handlers come and go as they please is absolutley absurd.

So no one here I believe is really blaming the CASA staff, who indeed are doing there best to achieve unrealistic deadlines. But more so we are blaming the Government of the day for a kneejerk reaction without really looking at the finer and more important security issues rather than setting a public perception of all is fine.

[the wizard of auz]

But more so we are blaming the Government of the day for a kneejerk reaction without really looking at the finer and more important security issues rather than setting a public perception of all is fine.

Exactly as I have been saying since the very start.

[BD1959]

Mind you, you can still fly this year if you have an AVID, an ASIC is not compulsory.
Don't be surprised to see another extension from the 31 March....

Not true if CASA are issuing a new license.

As I stated above, the new PPL will not be issued until the ASIC is issued. Doesn't matter is CASA have already issued the AVID or ASIC-exemption letter, the effect is: once the student switches from being GFPT to PPL, they are no longer allowed to fly into Security Controlled Airports.

As a pilot, it is my responsibility to ensure that I fly according to the regs. The regs stipulate that I cannot enter a Security Controlled Airport without an ASIC - but the Minister has decreed that CASA can issue a letter exempting the pilot from carrying an ASIC if s/he applied for their ASIC prior to 31/12/2005. The student uses the letter as authorisation during their GFPT Nav Exercises - and everything is legal. But, CASA decree that this letter is authorisation enough to issue the PPL.

Yes, having spoken with CASA - it is they who have made this decision. Not the "suits upstairs", not the "powers that be", certainly not the "powers to be", not the Government, not the Minister.

I appreciate CASA are in a hard spot - having had the whole process descend upon them. I realise that the Minister - in granting the extension to 31 March - probably didn't realise the extra workload he was putting upon the AFP (they're too busy sorting througth Visa applications for the Commonwealth Games to give much time to pilots) - so why, oh why, would they increase their own workload to the extent that they withhold PPLs (and doubtless other licenses, endorsements etc) until the ASIC is issued when they've already issued the same authority and it is encumbent upon the pilot to ensure they are abiding by the regs?

BD

[Pinky the pilot]

A letter from DOTARS arrived this morning and the third paragraph stated;
I am happy to report that the vast majority of pilots have now lodged their applications, with an ASIC issuing body, and can look forward to recieving their ASIC before the exemption expires on 31 March 2006
OK, now let us wait and see.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[dude65]

Imagine if they took the resources required to send out all these propaganda letters and instead used that money to employ another 5, or even 10 staff, (even casuals) to actually process the applications.

Just an idea.

Whoops, I forgot -this is the public service. Ideas not appreciated

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Pinky, I managed to frighten people on the street when I burst out laughing after I read the last bit of that paragraph from Dotars. :)
In that letter, Dotars again says that we can't go into 'secure' areas without an ASIC, but I can't find any mailouts from Dotars which actually define what a 'secure' area actually is.
Those little details appear to have been left for us to discover.

After a lot of rummaging on the Dotars web site, one can find some diagrams which define the 'secure' and 'security restricted' areas.

The Dotars website also has the following disclaimer http://www.dotars.gov.au/disclaimer.aspx By accessing information at or through this site, each user waives and releases DOTARS to the full extent permitted by law from any and all claims relating to the usage of and/or reliance on the material made available through the web site. In no event shall DOTARS be liable for any injury, loss or damage resulting from use of or reliance upon the material.
So., can I tell the swat team to go to :mad: hell when they surround me after I alight at Fitzroy Crossing without an ASIC ?
After all, I haven't got a paper copy from Dotars defining what the 'secure' and 'restricted' areas are, and the above disclaimer basically says that I shouldn't trust the web-site info.

[rmcdonal]

That’s almost as good as saying "This ASIC proves you are not a terrorist. If however it turns out you are a terrorist we can't be blamed for it. Thank you for your time :) "
:E :E :}

[RV6]

INX - I don't appreciate your response to my post. You have missed my point - the photographs were not 6 months old when I submitted the application. I am literate, and I followed the instructions.
While I was somewhat exasperated by the phone call from CASA, I did not abuse the caller - in fact I sympathised and wished him luck in dealing with the next pilot he has to call with similar news. I was far more civil to him than you were to me.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Another thing, the list of secondary and tertiary documents required to get an ASIC are impossible to produce unless you live here.

The only way we have found around it for our overseas students and visitors is to apply for an Australian drivers licence when they arrive - so if that state department will let them have one on the spot, which then becomes an acceptable document for the ASIC application, why can't DOTARS just accept an overseas drivers licence in the first place????

One chap coming on a flying holdiay was charged $90 to have his docs verified at the Aus embassy in Singapore. Now CASA have sent him an email saying that's not good enough. Another cancelled holiday.
:mad:

[kalavo]

Got told today my ASIC card had been sent to Qantas, so it should finally be on it's way! Any idea how long it normally takes Qantas to distribute them - looking at moving North shortly for the start of the dry and would like to try and get it before then.

[inxs]

INX - I don't appreciate your response to my post. You have missed my point - the photographs were not 6 months old when I submitted the application. I am literate, and I followed the instructions.
While I was somewhat exasperated by the phone call from CASA, I did not abuse the caller - in fact I sympathised and wished him luck in dealing with the next pilot he has to call with similar news. I was far more civil to him than you were to me.
Sorry petal...:{

[RV6]

INXS - apology accepted :rolleyes:

[inxs]

Firstly, it was the flying instructors in the United States that passed on information to the CIA/FBI about some luney who only wanted to learn how to take off, consequently the CIA/FBI did nothing about it and there you have it 11/11.

11/11..?? ..eerr...Armistice Day..?? :confused:

[paulthornton]

Charlie Foxtrot India:
Another thing, the list of secondary and tertiary documents required to get an ASIC are impossible to produce unless you live here.

Was this always the case? I jumped through hoops to get an AVID and photo license issued with a UK passport and driving license amongst other documents; and when I called CASA to ask about what additional ID I required for an ASIC, I was told that there wasn't an issue because I'd already been through the security checks to get the AVID.

Having said that though, the ASIC is still not with me so maybe its silently gone into the "damn foreigners potential terrorist threat" pile :ugh:

Paul.

[185skywagon]

Got told today my ASIC card had been sent to Qantas, so it should finally be on it's way! Any idea how long it normally takes Qantas to distribute them - looking at moving North shortly for the start of the dry and would like to try and get it before then.

Qantas ID is usually fairly quick with their issues.:ok:

[gaunty]

Folks,

I have just returned from a Regional Industry Consultative Meeting on Airports and Security.

Trust me they are aware of the problems of the past and, I understand the chokepoints have been cleared and they are on track to satisfy most everybody by the 31st Mar.

One has to attend these meetings, held quarterly, to understand the sheer complexity of the matters at hand. Most of the Regional Airports were represented from as far afield as Cocos, Gove, Karratha, Jandakot, Moorrabin etc as were the Police, AFP and I'm not sure whether the guy in the trenchcoat and dark glasses was a flasher who stumbled into the wrong room or from the MIB.:)

There is an interesting mix of council and private owners all working together with the Governement Agencies to find the most efficient and cost effective ways to meet their security obligations for RPT traffic to their airports.

There is no one size fits all yet and may never be, but they are all talking to each other and I believe there were some real breakthroughs this afternoon between them and the agencies responsible that may simplify matters for the future.

One of the speakers pointed out the problem of "connectivity" between the Govt Departments involved and the problems this brings to what from the outside seems to be a simple "Govt" exercise. Thay all have different Acts and privacy responsibilities under which they operate and their computer software and systems are not simply able to speak with each other by turning a switch.
There are moves to address this for the future in the context of security.

For the record and If I have got it right, there are two separate and distinct issues on foot in so far as Airport Access is concerned and which is IMHO why the process has taken so long.

The issue of an ASIC which signifies that you have "passed" the background checking process as laid down from time to time issued by the responsible Government Agency and makes you eligible for the issuing of an Airport Access card by the airport operator.

The ASIC might come about by an application as say an airport worker, by your company or as a result of your requesting one as part of your CASA pilot licence.

The possesion of an ASIC by either method in and of itself does not automatically allow entry to an Regional ASIC designated airport, or any ASIC designated airport for that matter, or the area designated on the airport as the RPT area without an access card issued by the Airport operator against it or by some other arrangement for escort by a local ASIC and Access Card holder. Some of authorised issuing authorities automaticaly issue an AUS card rather than just for their particular airport but they are not obliged to do so. I assume CASA will be doing likewise ?? when an ASIC is requested from them.??

Many are able to provide a discrete GA area that does not require an ASIC/Access Card, but some do not, by the nature of their security arrangements and the configuration of their airport.

Each airport operator is required to submit and administer a Security Plan that meets the requirements of the Transport Security Act, they can each have different methods of achieving this in the context of their particular airport situation which is why they may have different forms of access control.

Why don't or why isn't there a form of ASIC that is valid across all airports in Australia as an Access Card administered from a central point??

I understand there are still a considerable numbers of wrinkles to unwrinkle to work this out, but I can say that there is fairly unanimous support amongst the Regional, Secondary and privately/council owned airport owners and an honest desire on the part of the Governement Agencies to drive towards this as a goal.

For the moment it is steady as she goes, getting the immediate problems solved and clearing the decks, so that they can get back to whatever normal transmission is going to be.

I believe there will be some announcements shortly about the manner in the future willl be handled.
Trust me they are going about this in a methodical, rational and highly professional and consultative manner making sure that they have it as simple and as right as it is possible to be first up.

Its not an answer to todays problem, that is resolving itself, nor can it repair the past, but rest assured that the stakeholders, (I hate that word) both industry and Government are working hard together with the best of goodwill and professionalism to produce the best system possible for Australia.

It has been a long hard and tortuous road, there has been some serious financial pain for many, but I have strong feeling that we are at last just about there.

The Govt Agencies are and have been made aware of the significant financial costs the process has brought to the industry, and despite what some may think they are alive to it, but they can only move as fast as the slowest in the chain. The learning curve has been steep and I expect it to remain so for a little while in these uncharted waters. The lessons for the future are being learnt.

Anyway that's my take and I'm sure if there any "deliberate mistakes" in the above :uhoh: someone is bound to point them out.:p

Oh surprise surprise ran into more than a few PPRuNers too.:ok:

[wombat13]

Qantas ID is usually fairly quick with their issues.:ok:

Well, when I started this thread a few weeks back I had no idea it would generate the kind of discussion it has. But then again, I had no idea of what was going on. I am based in the UK and applied for my ASIC at the same time as I applied for my CoV to allow me to fly in Oz during an upcoming vacation.

I too have been told today the security checks have come back and will be sent off to QANTAS for ASIC issue. Does anyone know just how long the QANTAS phase will take?

The Wombat

[Biggles_in_Oz]

gaunty. this is not a rant against you per se
The possesion of an ASIC by either method in and of itself does not automatically allow entry to an Regional ASIC designated airport, or any ASIC designated airport for that matter, or the area designated on the airport as the RPT area without an access card issued by the Airport operator against it or by some other arrangement for escort by a local ASIC and Access Card holder. and Why don't or why isn't there a form of ASIC that is valid across all airports in Australia as an Access Card administered from a central point?? So, even with a 'must have' ASIC there was another sleeper requirement to have an access card for each regional airport ?
Oh, diety no... pleeeeeeeeease tell me that that isn't the case.

I understand there are still a considerable numbers of wrinkles to unwrinkle to work this out, but I can say that there is fairly unanimous support amongst the Regional, Secondary and privately/council owned airport owners and an honest desire on the part of the Governement Agencies to drive towards this as a goal. Whilst I can sympathise with, and even see, some of the difficulties that the airports face, the fact still remains that the politicians made the directives and set the deadlines.
Perhaps if the @#(*%& pollies had consulted with the affected bodies before the knee-jerk reaction to Sep11 then we wouldn't now be going through all this crap and delay and uncertainty and very belated consultations now.
If the spook agencies honestly believed that there was a real aviation-related terrorism threat then they would've kicked the pollies in the arse who would then have found some dusty statutes on the books to legally deal with the problem.
Call me niaive, but i believe that much of this 'security' crud is excessive.

It has been a long hard and tortuous road, there has been some serious financial pain for many, but I have strong feeling that we are at last just about there. Nah... IMHO this is simply something to make the #*I%R&! pollies look 'decisive' and 'macho', and they'll be looking to find more hoops to make us all jump through when their ratings decline.

Hmmm. I still wonder... Are the pollies and their retinue security and background checked ??. After all, their decisions will affect millions of lives.

[gaunty]

Perhaps I should make myself a bit clearer.

If you have an "AUS" ASIC, or an Avid and ASIC there should be no problem.

It's not just pilots who need em and as far as I can tell there are more groundies ATCers, engineers and so on than pilots, altogether it is a massive task, just on the numbers.

There are lots of grey areas stilll being uncovered, but they will be, and appropriate fixes applied.

Perhaps if the @#(*%& pollies had consulted with the affected bodies before the knee-jerk reaction to Sep11 then we wouldn't now be going through all this crap and delay and uncertainty and very belated consultations now. that would be a very neat answer, but I suspect wouldn't have changed the outcome one little bit.

They probably did, but NOBODY had any idea it would open a Pandoras box.

I know from the initial starting point everyone was confident that it would be a relatively straightforward exercise, but it wasn't until they got right into the intial planning and followed with the consultation phase that the magnitude of the issue was revealed to everybody. Back to the drawing board.

Wheeler was able to provide the basic framework and reveal more issues from their experience.

I recall having made arrangements, which were ultimately pushed way back, for them to come and brief our group on the process that we believed was all but complete, but that iteration was subjected to further modification on issues revealed by us and others and that was last year.

Even today several important but fairly simply fixed issues not previously considered, just bubbled to the surface as part of the discussion.

Just give em a break, the Act is not negotiable, the regs and the means of implementing it are still being defined and refined.

The Pollies set policy, the soldiers have got to work out how to do it.

The only way you'll change it is to change the Govrnment on it, but I think the opposition is of the same mind and the public aren't listening. And if they do, what are you going to tell them. They already know about politicians and they also know that they, live with a fear they never used to and it's not just terrorism.
What do you do with gangs that swagger round the streets of our cities armed with Samurai swords and all manner of bullsh!t martial art kit. The police wont go near them and I dont blame them, they cant just shoot them, and everybody else keeps out of the way. My 22 year old son 6'4" and built, whose mates are all the same size, simply walk away, we used to take em around the back and give em a hiding, the kids of today know that you dont take a pair of fists to a knife or gunfight.

At the end of the day we live in a far different world than yesterday, we just have to get used to and make the best of it.

I am not privy to the current threat level setting, but you can be certain it wont always be where it is.
I feel much happier getting the groundwork done now, so that we are not, as we often are, on the back foot.

[the wizard of auz]

Security against WHAT???
There is No security risk.
What a load of complete and utter rubbish. It is not required, not wanted by nearly everybody in the industry, almost unpolicable and certainly not effective.
The only reason there will be no hijacks or whatever the percieved risk is, is simply because the risk doesn't exist in the first place.
Taxpayers should be outraged at the waste of public money on this rubbish.:hmm: :hmm:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Thanks for that Gaunty and I appreciate your work and input.

But surely all these various agencies knew all this would happen, and if not why not? Why, when they opened Pandora's box, did they not put a delay on all of this eg let CFIs issue student licences until they could actually find a streamlined way to process them? Let the regional offices continue to issue licences until they actually had the resources in Canberra to do it?

Instead they forged ahead and let the flying training and aviation tourism industries grind to a halt. Consultation? It was obvious to industry that this would be a complete mess but I don't recall being consulted, or having a single letter to a pollie ackowledged let alone answered.

What I would like to know, is that now they seem to have admitted "er... there seems to be a bit of a problem here...." are they going to compensate those GA businesses that have lost out? Yeah right. For some it may be too late to ever hope to recoup the losses from not being able to do full time training of locals or overseas students and all the cancelled flying holidays etc, and rebuild confidence around the world that Australia is a good place to fly, rather than a bureaucratic joke where you are a terrorist until proven innocent. All this has meant years of marketing down the drain.

I agree with WIZ, that Bloggs doing his first solo, or Johnny Tourist going up to Shark Bay to look at some dolphins, or geez, even Wiz returning to an RPT aerodrome after a hard day mustering moo moos is not such a threat to national security that it has to cost millions of dollars to an industry that can ill afford it. :mad: :mad:

[the wizard of auz]

And not to mention the millions of public dollars being spent on security gates and fences on airstrips in the middle of nowhere.
they Cant even keep the friggen roo's out of my home strip and they think a $170,000 gate and small section of fence is going to keep out a determined but non existant security threat????????? Dream on!!!!! :eek: :eek:
They have been trying to keep the roo's out of my home strip for years and guess what I had to dodge on landing the other night???? wasn't one of Ossama's mates, but could have been...................If they had any interest in coming to this part of the world. But I have my doubts.:hmm: :hmm:

[Sunfish]

Thank you for your most informative posts Gaunty. I'm still waiting for my patiently waiting for my ASIC. What concerns me the most is the prospect of doing some air touring and having to deal with a multitude of different security arrangements.

I've already found the hard way about the difficulties of accessing a "secure" airport on a Sunday morning and I won't be going back to Mildura any time soon for this reason. Maybe I should take some wire cutters with me?

By the way, was a certain association name beginning with "a' in attendance?

[185skywagon]

Instead they forged ahead and let the flying training and aviation tourism industries grind to a halt.
The demise of a certain self fly tour company has meant that 20 trips X 5-7 aircraft through our area every year, has reduced to nil trips. Less fuel sales, less motel bookings etc etc etc. I have spoken to the owner of that company. He closed it down because there was no way he could comply with security checks for foreign pilots, within any time constraints or with any certainty.
He had to bring in the ombudsman to even get the Dept to listen to his problems with all of this. There is no talk of compensation.

[Paul Phelan]

It's simple maths really. If one government agency's involved, the possibility of an up-stuff is 100%. With two, it's 400%, with three - you guessed it - 900%.

So with AFP, ASIO, CASA and DOTRS it comes to 1600%. The math doesn't work however, when the involvement results from a political directive. This time we're blaming the wrong people. And given their level of interest, I wouldn't be expecting much more from our alternative govenment either. Gotta go, I can feel an editorial coming on.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Gotta agree there Paul....BTW I hope you were not too put out by my letter to the editor of Australian Flying ref the PN68C article:E PM me:ok:

Chuckles.

[Shitsu_Tonka]

Insane. Just insane.

But the public don't understand and therefore don't care.

The pollies are 'seen to be' doing something. Even if it is totally ineffective.

I would hazard a bet that 99.9% of daily 'checking' of an ASIC is a visual challenge and response, usually by a non security person - e.g. another AISC holder working as crew, ground support, engineering etc. So tell me - how easy would it be to fake up a red plastic card? The little hologram is just as easily faked - if you were to even bother. Who is really going to take a close look at it? Especially at woop woop? But thats the whole reality isn't it - nobody is going to challenge it because.... well what is the real threat?

Some enterprising crim could make a nice earner out of making fake ASICS - if they arent already (and you dont already count the higher power behind all this as criminal in their conduct)

[QSK?]

I'm only a private pilot so I don't need an ASIC for any commercial (RPT) requirement and the number of times I fly privately probably doesn't justify me buying an ASIC . However, I'm totally confused as to whether I need an ASIC at all or whether my AVID will suffice at some airports.

From what I understand from DOTARS/CASA material, if I fly to:

a) a non-RPT airport - no ASIC required

b) an airport with a marked out RPT secure area (blue line): no ASIC required unless you need to go into the secure area

c) an RPT airport with no marked out secure area: ASIC required, as the whole airport technically becomes a total "secure area".

Is my interpretation above correct?

Also from a layman's point of view what is the operational difference and impact between a "secure area of an airport' and a "security controlled airport"? I don't believe this is clearly understood by many pilots.

Whilst I recognise and accept the benefits of increased airport security, I am concerned that airports like Portland for example, are able to classify their whole airport as a "secure area" (ASIC required) instead of just marking out the RPT sensitive area. By doing this, they are making the whole airport unavailable to those GA pilots that only have (or require) AVIDs. Whilst this is not an issue in the Eastern States where there are a number of airport alternatives, it does create problems for those pilots flying into remote areas where airport choices are limited and they require access to sparsely deployed refuelling stops at airports which are declared "ASIC Only Airports".

I think regional airports should be encouraged by DOTARS to mark out their RPT secure areas instead of restricting access to AVID holders by taking the easy way out and declaring the whole airport a "secure area".

[gaunty]

Charlie Foxtrot India

Thanks, you know I cant help myself.

I think we need to understand the original point made by me and supported by Paul Phelan PS Mathematics 101 :ok: when he says.

The math doesn't work however, when the involvement results from a political directive. This time we're blaming the wrong people. And given their level of interest, I wouldn't be expecting much more from our alternative govenment either. Gotta go, I can feel an editorial coming on.

Even were they to have "known this would happen" when they opened Pandoras Box, and I am still arguing that it did not become "known" until a fair way through the process, (I said earlier there are still a large number of unforeseen wrinkles bubbling to the surface) in the absence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the reply from Government would have been the same.

"We have made a committment to the travelling and set a date, it is not negotiable."

To their credit they listened to their Agencies and industry before Christmas and recognised that though the date for the receiving of applications is set in stone, there was overwhelming evidence and they granted an extension to the time for which they should be displayed in order to give the Agencies the time to finalise the processing.

The airport owners face significant financial penalties and loss, should their processes and responsibilities be later found wanting.
They must approach the management of their airports security with the utmost diligence, their fiduciary and legal responsibilities demand it.

So apart from the connectivity issue between Govt Agencies, their security obligations and concerns MUST also be satisfied, they are the places after all where you are required to wear you ASIC, they are working hard on to minimise the impact on themselves and therefore you.
They are entitled to do this in a orderly fashion and that too takes time.

Not surprisingly we have seen here, angry posts by PPRuNers who had not applied by the advertised date.:rolleyes: There is no excuse, except for exceptional circumstances.

I do recognise your specific plight in regard to your flying holiday and overseas pilot training market and the damage and issue were mentioned specifically yesterday by both myself and the airport operator and taken on board. They were already very much aware, but powerless in the face of the Govt directive.

Compensation? that question when raised specifically in relation to you and the other operator was met honestly with the response that it was way above their pay grade and it is. Out of the 190 something airports affected there are only a handful that have suffered such. It's little solace but its been about the big picture.:{
BTW you can stop calling me Shirley :p

Paul Phelan again;
This time we're blaming the wrong people.


the wizard of auz

What was the name of the station near you out the back of nowehere, that that Japanese cult (was it the Moonies or Mooners.:} ) used to make their Sarin gas and did they fly in and out of Oz with it. :E sorry:)

Sunfish no, it was an Airports and Regional Industry meeting. The had their own meeting with the Minister, where they were also told it was not negotiable and they apparently as have many others suggested some ways that it could be fixed.

There is already a new process with new staff using the lessons of the past including connectivity, well in train for the future which I understand will be announced at an appropriate time, it will not address the current issue which is receiving competent high level attention, first things first.

QSK? correct.

There are however many more people beyond pilots who need an ASIC and the access card usually related to there employment at that particular airport.

Your point has in fact been very widely canvassed amongst the aiport owners.
It is not available to DOTARS to "tell" the individual airport owners what they should/can and shouldn't/cannot do on their own airports, beyond requiring a Transport Security Plan that they can approve or not approve according to the regulations governing them.
The owners will respond and configure their airport according to what they individually believe is the best and most cost efficient means available to them, it's intended use and within the limits of the funding provided by Government and their own often limited resources.

Whether the manner in which they choose to configure their airport encourages or discourages its use beyond RPT or whatever is a local ownership decision and must be fought at that level.

So hands up all those who supported the sale of Commonwealth/FAC airports.:*

[QSK?]

Thanks gaunty, much appreciated.

[Biggles_in_Oz]

Even were they to have "known this would happen" when they opened Pandoras Box, and I am still arguing that it did not become "known" until a fair way through the process, (I said earlier there are still a large number of unforeseen wrinkles bubbling to the surface) in the absence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the reply from Government would have been the same.
"We have made a committment to the travelling and set a date, it is not negotiable." It explains, but still won't and doesn't excuse the mess.

The agencies are run ragged to try and meet the unrealistic and arbitrary political timescale.

We (and everybody who steps onto an airport) are being told to compy (under penalty of fines or possible incarceration) with vaguely worded directives, and in-effect, are being told to find out for ourselves exactly what we should be complying with.

I can appreciate the scale and amount of work going on behind the scenes, but if the governments desired goal is so important, then it required much better preparation before implementation, or else a reevaluation of the implementation and timescale is required yesterday. but a reevaluation won't happen because it'd embarrass or humiliate the politicians.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

18/1/06 Government policy puts GOANA out of business
from the December 2005 issue of the leading American magazine, Flying.


"End of an Era

Fallout from global security efforts continues to plague aviation companies. GOANA (Great Outback Air Navigation Adventure) Australian Air Safaris is the latest casualty. According to GOANA’s Mal Shipton, recently introduced legislation designed to improve Australia’s “homeland” security makes it virtually impossible for the company to continue to conduct its commercial operation.

Shipton said, that the legislation, the “Enhanced Aviation Security Package,” would require literally thousands of visitor permits every year (one for each visit to each airport by each individual), a pilot license acquisition procedure that will take an inordinate time even after you correctly answer every question in the nine pages of the application, and it won’t be issued until your arrival immigration details are verified “within 24 to 48 hours.” The cost has jumped from $60 to $175 with this figure expected to quadruple to meet the cost recovery objectives stated by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.

Further, an initial security background check will cost $200 and there is currently a three-month backlog. Over a period of some 12 years, the company provided aerial safaris to participants who flew more than 40,000 flight hours in the GPS equipped 172s without a single injury, but the stiff new requirements have forced the company to sell its fleet and cease operation."


:sad:

[currawong]

ASIC's are not exactly a new thing.

They have been around for years, as has the system for issuing them.

The addition of terrorism related offenses to the check list is pretty simple.

My point is, any number of issuing bodies can tell you how long it takes to create one. Simple maths. Time by numbers. Simple.

Why oh why were the bugs not ironed out before this system was brought online?

Many issuing bodies have been doing this for years, problem free.

[the wizard of auz]

Gaunty.
What was the name of the station near you out the back of nowehere, that that Japanese cult (was it the Moonies or Mooners. ) used to make their Sarin gas and did they fly in and out of Oz with it. sorry
The station name was Banjawarn and yes the cult did develop and test sarin gas there. No it never came into or out of Australia by air. it was made with ingredients that were purchased in the city and driven up to the station (it was assembeled in my old bedroom actually). then the receipe was taken back to Japan and the gas built there.
It never was aimed at australians, Australian aircraft, Australian air travelers.
It was never transported by any RPT carrier, and no amount of security measures that are being implemented would have changed a damn thing.
I also believe that if they had of attempted to transport any of the componants via air, niether the ridiculous attempt at security fencing, nor the security checking of the pilots flying the aircraft (coz they would have been pax, as are 99.9% of hijackers and other bad guy types) would have made any differance what so ever.
Really bad example to use in an attempt at justifying this crap Gazza. (sorry) :\

I think if you have a look at the history of Australian aviation, you will find no past events that would have been avoided by the implementation of these stupid and unprecidented regulations and measures.
Really!, look closer Garry. see it for what it really is. A knee jerk reaction by politicians and an attempt, at our expense, to be seen to be doing something in the WAT.

[gaunty]

Wiz

Fair cop mate and I wasn't having a go at you, just trying to point that we simply don't know where the bad guys are, or coming from.

It's true in the past there haven't been, but this all designed to reduce the possible risk to the lowest practically achievable to prevent what has happened elsewhere.

Yesterday the local plod raided some scums home and found a rocket/grenade launcher with rounds, high velocity sniper type rifle with laser sight, several high powered hand guns amongst the usual asian martial arts sh!t. He has been unable to explain so far why it is necessary to own or have these items on or in his possesion and how they got into the country?

I'm with you, very angry that what we knew as Aussiestralia has had to come to this and the people who have brought us to it.
Licenses for high powered rifles like the .303 were controlled in the farming community for necessary use and if you've been sitting in one of those half tank corrugated iron dunnies reading the paper one night by the light of a kero lamp and had a bullet come in one side and out the other between you and the Daily News you now what I mean. I found the farmer responsible easily, no need for the plod and we agreed that I should put a lamp on the roof as well.:p

I reckon part of their rehabilitation should be a long stint in the Aussie outback, where they will find out about things like self reliance, looking after yourself and your mates out of necessity, you know what I mean and where grenade launcers and high powered rifles, nunchukas, samurai swords and all the rest of that crapola are no bloody good or help to your ultimate survival.
See how thye get on digging for water with a samurai sword.:p

[tealady]

Student pilot applied for his asic in July 2005. On querying its status he was told he never filled in the forms and that he needs to do so and cough up some dollars. Sounds to me like CASA is just dumping all those applications in to the "lost" or "you didn't really put the forms in" basket and asking you to cough up the 2006 fees.

[gaunty]

tealady Really, I don't doubt what you say, but did he really?

Ask him for and show CASA the receipt for his SPL application and go from there, the rest is just idle speculation.

I'm sure I won the lotto the other night but I just can't find the ticket.:} :p

[tealady]

Gaunty, we maintain a register of everything that is sent to CASA - this is not the first time it's happened.

[the wizard of auz]

And you can bet your ass it won't be the last.:hmm:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Odd, if said stude applied for ASIC with CASA in July, and yet they didn't even announce they would be issuing them until October. :confused:

[kookabat]

Funnily enough CASA finally pulled my ASIC fee out of the credit card this week... could I be expecting a bright shiny bit of red plastic to turn up in the near future???

Nahh that'd be too much to expect, surely.

[Obiwan]

I figured CASA might end up with a backlog of ASIC applications so applied with the bloke at Merimbula. It took 6 weeks which wasn't too bad, especially after I heard some of the war stories that others have :oh:

[TLAW]

Funnily enough CASA finally pulled my ASIC fee out of the credit card this week... could I be expecting a bright shiny bit of red plastic to turn up in the near future???
Nahh that'd be too much to expect, surely.

I wouldn't be hanging holding my breath if I was you - my credit card was debited before Christmas.

[inxs]

Guys
Why lodge your ASICS with CASA - there are plenty of other agencies out there that do it and probably much faster too, see: http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx
or, http://www.aopa.com.au/ - if this appeals to you...???

[Sunfish]

Wot TLAW said.:(

[Woomera]

Time to set this thread free for the moment.

[Ultralights]

the RAAus is now issueing ASICS :ok:

[Chadzat]

After 5 months of waiting it seems I have scraped into the "6 month old photo deadline"! Rang the lovely people :eek: at CASA yesterday and got told I had cleared the ASIO checks and the paperwork was "back at CASA for processing". Hopefully it isn't too far away.

[TLAW]

A colleague of mine has just raised a valid point;

An ASIC is valid for two years before being renewed

Does this mean we will have this schmozzle occur again in two years time, when EVERYONE reapplies to have their new ASIC issued?

Just a thought.

[Woomera]

CASA Media Release - Friday, 3 March 2006
Pilots: Just click for ASIC help
Pilots who have applied to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority for an Aviation Security Identification Card have a special new way of getting an update on the progress of their application.

An ASIC application page has been set up on the CASA web site to help pilots who have aviation security card questions.

To find out what is happening with their ASIC application lodged with CASA, pilots simply fill in a web form and submit it with the click of their mouse.

The easy-to-use web form will streamline the process of answering ASIC questions from pilots.

Pilots will find using the web form easier than ringing CASA with their ASIC questions. They should note that CASA can only answer questions about ASIC applications lodged with the regulator.

CASA is currently processing more than 10,000 ASIC applications from pilots across the nation.

The goal is to complete the processing of as many of these as possible before the end of this month.

After March 31 pilots requiring access to secure areas of regional airports will be required to display an ASIC.

ASICs are already required for pilots using the long standing security controlled areas of capital city and other major airports.

Those pilots who applied to CASA for an ASIC before the official application deadline of the end of 2005 are being given priority over pilots who sent in applications this year.

Applications for ASICs made this year are being processed chronologically – with the earliest being dealt with first.

However, all pilots who wish to access security controlled aerodromes who have not yet submitted an ASIC application are being urged to do so as quickly as possible.

Where pilots have made a mistake in their ASIC application CASA is contacting them by telephone, fax or email to correct the problem as quickly as possible.

To access the new ASIC application web page go to: www.casa.gov.au/securitycheck



Media contact:
Peter Gibson
mobile 0419 296 446
Ref: MR0609

[Bob Murphie]

In all The DOTARS media releases and pamphlets, including letters from The Minister it was noted;

"that if you required "ACCESS" to the "SECURITY RESTRICTED ZONE" of a security restricted airport, you would need an ASIC.

Now it is;

"However, all pilots who "WISH TO ACCESS SECURITY CONTROLLED AERODROMES" who have not yet submitted an ASIC application are being urged to do so as quickly as possible".

I am sure this confusion is planned.

This is not what the original pamphlets said.

[Chadzat]

"The goal is to complete the processing of as many of these as possible before the end of this month.

After March 31 pilots requiring access to secure areas of regional airports will be required to display an ASIC."

Gotta love those two lines together without any other elaboration in between. :mad:

[currawong]

In 2004, ASIO "re-issued" all ASICs.

Not a physical re-issue, but a second look at all holders, to ensure no baddies had slipped through.

No great fanfare, but it did take slightly longer than planned; there were 10,000 + more checks to do than planned. Over 70,000 total, in fact.

No adverse findings, although several investigations were undertaken.

The point to this?

Food for thought and an interesting comparison to the current debacle.

[TLAW]

The Australian is not quite so conciliatory;
CASA puts pilot security online (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,18327413%5e16123%5e%5enbv%5e,00.html)
CASA puts pilot security online
Steve Creedy
MARCH 03, 2006
THE air safety regulator has set up a web page to let pilots check the progress of their Aviation Security Identification Card applications amid signs some passes will not be issued by this month's extended deadline.
Pilots will need to display the passes after March 31 in order to gain access to secure areas of regional airports but the Civil Aviation Safety Authority has so far finished processing only 4200 of the 12,500 applications it has received. About 5500 of the unprocessed applications are understood to be still undergoing background checks by the Australian Federal Police.
CASA says the new web page, which will apply only to applications lodged with the authority, will be quicker than trying to telephone with a query.
The Government has battled with the strengthened security card requirements since the move was announced in 2003. Early bureaucratic bungling caused widespread delays and confusion.
Last year the Government tried to streamline the process by making CASA a centralised issuing authority.
But it made the decision too late, and Transport Minister Warren Truss was forced to extend the original deadline of December 31.
CASA says it is now giving priority to those pilots who lodged their applications before the December deadline, and processing those that were lodged this year in the order they were received.
It is also trying to contact as quickly as possible pilots who have made mistakes in their ASIC applications. CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said it was difficult to estimate how many of the unprocessed ASICs would be through before the deadline.
"The goal is to get it all done before the end off the month," he said.
"Certainly we want to get done all those people who met the official deadline of December 31 - that's only fair to them.
"The ones that didn't meet the deadline and put them in this year, we'll get as many done as possible but it may not be possible to do all of them."
Mr Gibson said the authority was still receiving late applications and those would not be processed by the deadline.
He urged anyone who had not lodged the paperwork yet to do so as soon as possible.
The Australian

Full marks to them for doing this :ok: :ok: :ok:
Puts the remarks made by the Minister's "Spokesperson" blaming pilots for the delays in a bit of a different light.

[185skywagon]

I hope Vicky Dickman (minister's spokeswoman) reads that article.

[TLAW]

I hope Vicky Dickman (minister's spokeswoman) reads that article.

That's the one :ok:

[gaunty]

TLAW at the risk of sounding like an apologist for the Govt and agencies Creedys throw away;
Early bureaucratic bungling caused widespread delays and confusion.
Last year the Government tried to streamline the process by making CASA a centralised issuing authority.
But it made the decision too late, and Transport Minister Warren Truss was forced to extend the original deadline of December 31.
is written in complete ignorance of the facts and understanding of the complexity and widely dispersed nature of the issue.

Beyond the serial and predictable whinging in the press and their mag the organisation that purports to represent the group most affected, has been conspicuous in their lack of long term proactive engagement in supporting all of the stakeholders, and yes that includes the Govt. and agencies in driving towards an efficient and timely resolution of what will become a permanent part of our transport landscape for the foreseeable future.

Consultation with over 190 diferent airports, 5 or 6 different agencies, a dozen or so airlines, a score of alphabet soup orgs and dealing with and deflecting the usual sabre rattlers and chest beaters is bound to throw up more questions than answers.

NO ONE in Australia has EVER been there before, the learning curve is still asymptotic.

Doesn't matter who, what, where or why, the nutters are always with us and in ever increasing numbers. In my career to date, I have been directly involved as the recipient of two bomb threats, one involving a B707 the other involving a brace of charter aircraft en route to a very large mine opening with the Premier, Cabinet and several Chairmen CEO's of multibillion dollar enterprises on board. Both non religious and both locally generated. :{

If you think the 9/11 event through, the planning and the choice and use of weapon against a series of Western Icons was a stunning achievement.

It has taught the nutters of the world, in one fell swoop, to think waaayy outside the square.:mad:

[TLAW]

Gaunty,

As I said - full marks to them for doing it and three big thumbs up from me. I don't necessarily agree with Creedy, I was merely posting the article as it pertains to the issue.

I will, however, remember the press releases put out by the Minister's spokesperson. It was those inflammatory remarks that originally drove me to put pen to paper and write to the Minister.

Once again - CASA have demonstrated, in the best way possible (actions speaking louder than press releases) their willingness to help pilots work through this issue :ok: :ok: :ok:

Re-reading this post I can see it is ambiguous - the "them" referred to is CASA. Apologies for any confusion *smacks head*

[gaunty]

TLAW:ok:

Then we are in heated agreement.:)

[currawong]

With all due respect, gaunty, how have your AVID/ASIC applications gone?

Timely? Efficient? Effective?

On a scale of 1 - 10 will suffice.

[185skywagon]

Gaunty,
I will, however, remember the press releases put out by the Minister's spokesperson. It was those inflammatory remarks that originally drove me to put pen to paper and write to the Minister.

TLAW, likewise.

With all due respect, gaunty, how have your AVID/ASIC applications gone?

Timely? Efficient? Effective?

On a scale of 1 - 10 will suffice.
About 9, but it was done through QANTAS Security ID services, as we are in charge of Qantas Handling here. Initially issued as a CTL only card, but pleasantly exchanged for an AUS card when we provided our ARN's.
185.

[TLAW]

CASA Media Release - Friday, 3 March 2006
Pilots: Just click for ASIC help
Pilots who have applied to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority for an Aviation Security Identification Card have a special new way of getting an update on the progress of their application.
An ASIC application page has been set up on the CASA web site to help pilots who have aviation security card questions.
To find out what is happening with their ASIC application lodged with CASA, pilots simply fill in a web form and submit it with the click of their mouse.
The easy-to-use web form will streamline the process of answering ASIC questions from pilots.
Pilots will find using the web form easier than ringing CASA with their ASIC questions.
*snip*
To access the new ASIC application web page go to: www.casa.gov.au/securitycheck
Media contact:
Peter Gibson
mobile 0419 296 446
Ref: MR0609
Is it just me or has this been taken down? I can't find the web form on the page.

[get_over_it]

this is the address you want to go to check your status: http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/status.htm

i sent in my details on friday and still haven't heard back :zzz:

[BEACH KING]

Just out of interest, how do we get on after the deadline, if our ASIC hasn't shown up.

I applied in October last year for a photo licence and an ASIC at the same time. After about 6 weeks the photo licence turned up, then a refund cheque of $52.00 because I had paid twice for the background checks.

I rang up a couple of weeks ago and was told it was with Qantas (I imagine not to get airfreighted) and should get it soon. Then did the internet thing yesterday after reading Gaunty's post, and so far have not had a response.

So what happens after the deadline if still no ASIC. I fly in the bush predominantly and usually to security controlled airports that have only one or two RPT flights a week, except my home base where we get one a day. Usually only roos or emus about when I land. So who will arrest or shoot us?? Buggered if I am going to stop going where I have to due to no ASIC.

Who are the enforcers???? The Police, DOTARS, Airport Managers, Council reps .. Who do I have to look out for?:eek:

[BD1959]

I rang up a couple of weeks ago and was told it was with Qantas (I imagine not to get airfreighted) and should get it soon. Then did the internet thing yesterday after reading Gaunty's post, and so far have not had a response.



i sent in my details on friday and still haven't heard back




Pilots will find using the web form easier than ringing CASA with their ASIC questions.


Wonder what CASA's definition of "easier" is :hmm: .... 23 days to go.

BD

[Sunfish]

Ditto, emailed CASA Friday, still no response.

[BD1959]

They haven't quite got this "User Pays" thing hammered out yet, have they?

They should have provided a 1902 number to which queries could be SMS'd.

Then they could be earning $5 per message and still choose to ignore them.


BD

[Flyboy11]

Wonder what CASA's definition of "easier" is :hmm: .... 23 days to go.

BD

Simple, CASA want everyone to fill in the form, rather than ring, so that they can fob you off and not provide an answer in a timely manner.

Stuff em' I'm going to ring every day from now until I get my ASIC/PPL.

The deadline will be extended you can smell it in the air !

Flyboy11

[currawong]

What I can smell is definately not a deadline.....

[TLAW]

I got a reply by email today, saying that my application had been sent off to QANTAS for printing on the 27th of February, and that QANTAS would contact me to tell me how I could get it. It wasn't two days, but three.

[zepthiir]

while i think it is a good thing that qantas are helping out with the issuing of ASICS i dont like the idea that, without any say in the matter, I may have to go to mascot to pick my ASIC up from them.

Not having a car trying to get there for me is a huge pain, especially if I will be required to get there during regular business hours. Is there any option to specify a requirement to pick up from Bankstown?

Zepth

[the wizard of auz]

And you get to pay some stupid amount of money for that wonderful service. :hmm: :hmm:

[get_over_it]

I got a reply by email today, saying that my application had been sent off to QANTAS for printing on the 27th of February, and that QANTAS would contact me to tell me how I could get it. It wasn't two days, but three.

hopefully i will hear from them tomorrow.

while i think it is a good thing that qantas are helping out with the issuing of ASICS i dont like the idea that, without any say in the matter, I may have to go to mascot to pick my ASIC up from them.

Not having a car trying to get there for me is a huge pain, especially if I will be required to get there during regular business hours. Is there any option to specify a requirement to pick up from Bankstown?

Zepth

i thought they would post them out. that was the deal wasn't it? i pay $130 and get an ASIC delivered to my door?

[rmcdonal]

i thought they would post them out. that was the deal wasn't it? i pay $130 and get an ASIC delivered to my door?
I was under the impression that they where getting delivered to a suitable location near your residence (like police satation?) to be picked up and signed for by you.

[CAR256]

I sent off the e-mail last Thursday.
I rang on Tuesday to ask about my ASIC's progress, "no problem", the nice lady said at the other end, "I suspect they will extend the deadline anyway." "We are still doing overtime a plenty though!" :p
Then yesterday I recieved the reply to the e-mail, which stated that there was a problem with my application, and if I haven't yet been notified, I will shortly. :ugh: While they went to the trouble to send me an e-mail telling me that, they didn't tell me what the problem was!!!
The thing is this... I sent off the application, for whatever it was I applied for, back in July last year!!! My application was put onto the pile that was to be processed last, because I already had a ******* ASIC! 4 months later, I left the job that supplied me with my ASIC, and handed it in, as it wasn't mine to own... I don't think that the announcement that ASICs would be made available to individuals yet. ( I could be wrong).
Now, soon to be looking for work again. I am faced with the issue that I may not be employable without an ASIC! :eek:
If I made a mistake on the form(S). Then I am a clutz, but surely, the amount of time I allowed them to process the forms allows me some lee-way. I was not tardy at sending off the extra form (and payment) for the ASIC. Remember, that I had handed one in one month before.
I would like to thank the lady mentioned at the beginning, as she may have pulled out my application to be processed, and thus the error was found.
I will wait and see what the problem is... :E

[DonC]

"We will reply within 2 days" - Bull**** - it's been nearly 2 weeks - nothing!

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yes....I note with some bemusement, but no surprise, that it has been exactly 7 days since I emailed the dick smokers:*

[Incloud]

Will its been about 4 months since I applied and last week recieved a recipet from them showing the $145 bill to my credit card..... so how long will it take from my money being taken till I acutally recieve the card??????? Should I just laminate the recipet and hang it around my neck next time im on a restricted area????
Emailed that inquiry serivce about 10 days ago too and no reply..... this sucks.

[DonC]

Whoops , They must've been listening - just got an email saying it's gone off to Qantarse for printing - probable offshore!

[Going Nowhere]

Emailed CASA once the site opened to find out what the go was. Waited 3 days, nothing so emailed again...
Yesterday got a reply to my first email saying that they were waiting on AFP/ASIO and today got a reply to my second email saying that it was on its way to Qantas for printing. I applied mid Dec. :*

[robair]

I noticed that the deadline for getting an ASIC is april 1st, do you think that they are playing an April fools day joke on us??????:uhoh: :bored:

[gaunty]

I dont suppose its dawned on anyone here that serial emails and telephone enquiry might actually be slowing the process by diverting attention away from the job at hand.:mad:

The Minister has given the agencies and the people who require to use them an extended deadline.

If you have applied by the 31st Dec 2005 as required and they can not meet the issue time for provision of the ASIC in sufficicient time for it to be delivered, then it is THEIR responsibility to either make provision for another extension or some other mitigating mechanism.
They have not yet signalled any further problems which may require that action.

REMEMBER;

The problem belongs to THEM, NOT you.

In the absence of which I suspect that after the 31st March, you should be quite within your rights to continue as you are now and if the guys want to arrest you for not being in possesion of said card, go politely and quietly, as you should, ring your lawyer and make sure he in turn rings the press.

Or your company should cease operations and you should cease flying to places that require them and explain to your clients why they are not able to travel to or are stranded there.

Either way will bring fairly rapid results I should imagine.

Then it will be up to the Minister and his agencies to sort it out and wear the consequences.

But whatever you do, don't try to be a smartarse and dick with the system, just be sure you have done your part.
You know whether you have applied and when the application money was cleared out of your account?

[Chimbu chuckles]

Gaunty me old...the website was their idea...to save time answering phone calls...I paid cash mid December...I await an answer from their website....the Minister is a moron...as is the boss of DOTARs!

Chuckles:E :ok:

[SnoopyDoopy]

Myself and friend applied through CASA July 05, did everything by the book, and had our money receipted Nov 05.

Friend received his ASIC in Feb 06 , I'm yet to get anything except a form letter by email saying I've passed all the checks (which I knew in Dec anyway after finding a very helpful lady in CASA).

The thing is though my friend's ASIC takes effect from Sept 05, effectively discounting its 2 year value by 6 months. If I get mine this month I would at least expect it to take effect from this month but I'm not hopeful.

Anyone who's received their ASIC in the same situation?

Snoopy Dog

[rmcdonal]

That sounds a bit like theft to my Snoopy. If they only last 2 years and you lose 1/4 of that waiting for it to come through. :mad:

[Will Robinson]

CASA may be getting beter at it now they have done a few!

Applied on feb 14th and have recieved an email today saying its at qantas for printing.

LESS THAN ONE MONTH:oh:

Now we'l see how long Q take.

[Chimbu chuckles]

I finally received an email back from 'the website' today indicating my ASIC went to QF on 24th Feb for printing and confirming my address details....I wonder how long it will take to arrive from QF.

Anyone else wonder what will happen to the hundreds of ASICs which will be issued to student pilots/PPLs who subsequently lose interest in flying?

Gonna be a LOT of ASICs laying around or chucked in the garbage.:hmm:

Until this requirement ASICs were deemed sufficiently important from a security POV that you could only be issued with employer specific ASICs...change jobs, hand in ASIC, reapply at new job, get new ASIC...seems to be a serious downgrading of what an ASIC was supposed to be to me.

[Wheeler]

I think I'll take Gaunty's advice and not hassle them even more. It is not helping them sorting this awful mess out if we keep diverting their (obviously far too scare) resources into answering 'enquiries'. They will just have to extend the deadline yet again.... What a joke ! The bloody things only last 5 years -some of us seem to have been waiting almost a year already. Meanwhile, God only knows what those dreadful terrorists (who clearly will not be able to get an ASIC), have been up to.

[currawong]

Good advice Wheeler, however you may wish to confirm they have actually received your application.

And have not lost it since receiving it.

And have not got around to telling you.

All problems that have caught others.

[FO Cokebottle]

Emailed CASA re: Status Report on my Application. Received reply stating that QANTAS was processing and "they" will contact me.

Called CASA today and the CLARC receptionist could not answer my obvious question...."What does 'they [QANTAS] will contact me' mean and how this contact will occur when QANTAS is not the agency I agreed to do business with regarding my personal information.

A CASA representative called me two hours later and told me that QANTAS has been sub-contracted to deliver the ASIC to pilots and it was up to them [QANTAS] as to how it was done. It was suggested that QANTAS, for security reasons, required pilots to pick up their respective ASIC from QANTAS Corporate Centre at Mascot. When I asked for contact numbers and how would delivery/collection be achieved when the respective pilot is nowhere near Sydney.

Reply was: "Call QANTAS yourself and arrange something with them". This representative could not even give a direct line number let alone there administration services number. I had to look that up in the telephone book.

User pays for the buck pass and, as a subcontractor, QANTAS is not bound by any promise of service efficiency CASA makes let alone protection of private information.

In addition, can anyone confirm the rumour that you only need an ASIC if you want to access the zone within the bounds of the "blue line" ie: where the RPT ramp is located at applicable airports.

If this is true then the piloting fraternity has been "duped" into giving up not only $200 but access to private information to a plethora of Government Departments.

Another Bureaucratic :mad: up!!!!! or a clever clever way to obtain and maintain a "file" on every pilot to which CASA is the portal to the pilots training progression, professional enhancement in qualifications and medical status.

1984 gentlemen!!! :eek:

[Wheeler]

Some good points FO - seems that if they have shared any of our personal info with their subcontractor, they may may well have breached privacy legislation.

(So what when you are above the law anyway!)

Bet you're right about the blue line too.

[currawong]

One crowd that issues these things (not CASA) commits an offence on their application form. This is verified by the Privacy Commission.

When the dust settles it will be interesting to see if they are taken to task.

[Clare Prop]

I don't recall any tender process.....??
Why Qantas?

Time is running out, tick tock tick tock....16 days to go....

[rmcdonal]

Its like a countdown to christmas. Only there is a real possibility we may get that lump of coal.:rolleyes:

[Sunfish]

I was told yesterday "your ASIC has been sent to Qantas for printing" anyone know how long this takes and what happens afterwards?

[BEACH KING]

SUNFISH

They (CASA) told me on 23rd February that my ASIC was at Qantas for printing, but so far ......no ASIC.

I'm guessing that the "Qantas for printing" line is a fob off to stop people for enquiring about the progress of the card. I say this because some friends who have had a Qantas location specific ASIC have had it converted to a full ASIC and printed in a week

[currawong]

I reckon my next enquiry will start with -

"What are you wearing?" :E

Might get some value for money....

[RV6]

Agree - response from email site was "your application has been sent to Qantas on 24th Feb". Still waiting - no contact - how do QF know how to contact me anyway??? Was in Sydney last week - could have picked up the card at the jetbase, if that's where they're being issued. Now back on the other side of the earth, so who knows????? Waiting, waiting, waiting - well I do live in WA so what did I expect?! (Wait Awhile):{

[Jimmy78]

I received an email from CLARC on the 3rd of March saying that my ASIC was at Qantas for printing. I applied in December.

On Monday I phoned Qantas and was told that my ASIC was part of a bunch that were sent with the wrong photos and that there was a mix up :uhoh: :{ :{

On Tuesday I called again and was told that my card was now printed and that I would receive a letter in a couple of days with instructions on where and when to pick it up (I'm in Adelaide).

Today, still no letter.

I can just imagine getting my card with the wrong bloody photo :D

[TomOz]

I emailed qantas to ask how my ASIC was getting on, received a promp reply saying that they had the card ready to go, just waiting for a final clearance from DoTARS before they can mail it to me. Does anybody know what this means... Will I ever get my card???:bored:

[Wheeler]

Hummmm... only 10 days to go ... anyone offering odds on when the announcement will come?

Nice to see CASA maintaining their usual benchmark.

[Little Lady]

This thread reads like a well :yuk: scripted American Daytime soapie.... 6 months later the story line is still the same.

[puff]

What I love as well is that they charged my credit card for said card probably a month ago and i'm yet to recieve it. As far as i'm concerned they should only charge for it after it's sent. Also these cards apparently are valid for 2 years, whats the bet they will be dated JAN 06 so that by the time we get them they will be infact only valid for a year and a half.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Has Anybody recieved one from CASA/Qantas yet??

10 days to go.....:uhoh:

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Hmmmm - anyone not got a reply from CASA?

Just tried again after no response three weeks ago and notice that their acknowlegement no longer promises to get back to you after a couple of days but just offers that your info is on it's way to the ASIC team.

Bit poor seeing has how they took money from my credit card last October!

UTR.

[gaunty]

OK!! Sticks neck out again.:}

Here is the latest goss, which with any luck will be confirmed directly before too long.

Yes CASA have contracted QF to do their ASIC printing and Plan A is/was that QF would do the distribution through their offices/airports etc.

There are some difficulties with this in location and accesibility.

Plan B, to be confirmed, is that a secure form of registered good ol Australia Post will be used in lieu for delivery.

The ASICs for those who applied before the 31/12/2006 WILL recieve them in time and they are making a determined effort to meet the same deadline on those lodged after. If not they will not be far away and will issue ion the normal course of events.

Remember there is a new section that will be handling the security issues which will kick in when they have the backlog cleared and can resume normal transmission.

There will be some who have "failed" the first pass and further info or time will be needed.
:E
The actual numbers that CASA received were nothing like the 30,000 being bandied about by a certain organisation it was more like something over 7,000recieved by the deadline with a final total over 12,000.

The balance of the alleged 30,000 were almost certainly those who were already issued by or through their employers and those who do not need nor wish to have one.

By hook or by crook the task will be completed.

Remember what I said earlier, it is their problem and if you have done the right thing it will remain so and you will get your ASIC on time.

Please be patient and let them finish the task, they too have pride in their work and they are working hard.:ok:

[BD1959]

Hmmmm - anyone not got a reply from CASA?
Just tried again after no response three weeks ago and notice that their acknowlegement no longer promises to get back to you after a couple of days but just offers that your info is on it's way to the ASIC team.
Bit poor seeing has how they took money from my credit card last October!
UTR.

I emailed them Monday morning - hadn't heard anything in over a month and the last time was told that application was with AFP.

Received a reply Tuesday lunchtime :ok:

Application STILL with AFP :{

BD

[rmcdonal]

Mine arrived today. Applied for it at the end of Dec.
Picked it up from work.

[get_over_it]

and where do you work?

Qantas? Somewhere in SYD?

[rmcdonal]

Regional NSW. Not for QANTAS. Not to sure how they knew where I worked :\ I suppose the men in black know EVERY thing about me now.

[Critical Reynolds No]

Ok I'm getting confused.

After submitting my form for the AVID with a police check for an ASIC, I received my AVID 6 months later. Now I am yet to receive my ASIC but a lad at the Club was trying to tell me that as I got a new AVID with the check, that means I will not get one. Is this true?

Thanks all.

[Runway37]

NO that is NOT true.

You will receive BOTH an AVID and an ASIC.

If you don't receive it soon, give them a call. 131 757

Believe it or not, they are making headway and plenty of people have already received theirs.


HERETH ENDS THIS THREAD

37.

[Going Nowhere]

Rang Qantas today to enquire about picking up my ASIC. Guy on the phone told me that as of about 2 weeks ago, a heap were sent back to CASA to be printed up. Rang CASA and after a bit of a search the more than helpful lady said that it was in a pile with heaps others that were being sent out via registered mail today or tomorrow.

So let's hope that by next week i'll get it!

[robair]

One work regarding this issue-
CLUSTERFOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vh_ajm]

Rang Qantas today to enquire about picking up my ASIC. Guy on the phone told me that as of about 2 weeks ago, a heap were sent back to CASA to be printed up. Rang CASA and after a bit of a search the more than helpful lady said that it was in a pile with heaps others that were being sent out via registered mail today or tomorrow.
So let's hope that by next week i'll get it!

Weird. CASA told me that they had sent my application to QF to print. There seems to be way too much sending and not enough processing going on. QF meanwhile have been printing my ASIC for 3 weeks and counting.

[185skywagon]

I say this because some friends who have had a Qantas location specific ASIC have had it converted to a full ASIC and printed in a week
Would that be us, Beach????:)

[I Love This Show]

I went to their fancy website and submitted their fancy form that was supposed to tell me when my ASIC and Photo Licence was coming...
Well they got back to me in a couple of days telling me the app had been sent to Qantas to get printed on the 6th of March. Been printing close to twenty days and twenty nights, so i'm expecting a pretty schmick end product when it arrives :} - Who've they got, Michaelangelo painting the thing?
Point of confusion - unrelated to my licence, I need an ASIC for a new job I've taken at SYD airport (unrelated to my flying) - do I get two ASICs, or do I have to wait until my flying one comes through? Cos I dont think the company can wait that long :ugh:
Well anyway, I'm sure they're doing the best they can. The two times I've previously had to apply for ASICs I've received them within the week. Is everyone applying for non pilot ASICs in Australian airports subject to this delay, or do they process pilot ASICs in a seperate pile?

[Arm out the window]

Submitted forms in October, sent the email a couple of weeks ago, no answer.

Rang 131757 yesterday, initially got a bloke who could tell me it wasn't ready but not much else. Put me on to the supervisor, she made some enquiries - not ready to be sent with the heap of them that are going out 'as we speak', so I think very unlikely I'll have mine by the 31st.
She was very helpful, but when asked 'If I don't get it by the due date, is there provision for more extension?' the answer was a definite no.

That's the bit that's really annoying me - I did all the right things, but won't be able to work without breaking the law if it doesn't get here in time.
Not such a drama for me as a part-timer, but the principle is wrong - if the system can't produce results for those who have followed its own procedures correctly, then surely it's obliged to make allowances for them.

[Gyro drifter]

Without trying to rub it in...

I sent me papers to CASA in mid january THIS YEAR (after the due date), and im very surprised to say that Qantas has printed it and is just waiting to be sent back to me after being cleared by the departments.

Kinda shocking seeing as you guys who sent it in earlier are getting no answers.

Gyro

[Arm out the window]

Believe it .... or not! :)

[Wheeler]

Makes you wonder just how they do decide which ones to prioritise. Maybe they just have them all in big pile and then take it in turns to pick out 'today's lucky winner'. Or ,maybe some of us are just having a really bad security check....

Either way time is getting really short for the next announcement of an extension..... They really should say SOMETHING to those of us who have paid and been waiting 6 months and only got a 'Yep, we got your forms and your money, dont worry, this is what is happening' letter back in January!

Then again perhaps their security checks and and intelligence are much better than appears (this incompetence is all just a big smoke screen!) and they've found out where those of us who bagged them on pprune live and so now we're right at the back of the queue. (Yeah, you're right, I've run out of any kind of rational reasoning for this.)

[aero979]

Working from one of our much loved ' secured aerdromes ' , we had an unofficial visit from an airport representative this week saying there would be no extension to the 31st March deadline, however DOTARS will conveniently turn a blind eye to anyone not displaying an ASIC until sometime in the near future....

[TLAW]

Working from one of our much loved ' secured aerdromes ' , we had an unofficial visit from an airport representative this week saying there would be no extension to the 31st March deadline, however DOTARS will conveniently turn a blind eye to anyone not displaying an ASIC until sometime in the near future....

The perfect bureaucratic solution!

[Arm out the window]

Yes Minister!

[runway16]

The Channel 7 'Sunrise' show today with David Kosh despatching off volunteers in a QF aircraft from Brissy airport northbound to help with cyclone Larry relief.
There was Kosh on the tarmac but no sign of an ASIC card.

Does this again confirm that there is one set of rules for some and a different set of rules for others?

Perhaps Brissy airport management could reply.

[Sunfish]

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! MY ASIC HAS ARRIVED!

Via Australia Post registered post courier service, and it even has a snazzy holder and lanyard.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

Does it have YOUR photo on it, too? :p

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Got mine today too! Registered post and all is sweeet with the world:)

[Howard Hughes]

Get on to the Ombudsman, they would love to hear about that sort of stuff!!
Cheers, HH.:ok:

[rmcdonal]

Same on my card. Aug 07. Applied for it in December. Probably when they did the first set of checks for my AVID.

[Sunfish]

Just got mine today and it says March 2008 - I applied to CASA in December.

[Sunfish]

yup, totally ugly.

[boeingwest]

If anyone living in YBCS is dealing with CASA for your ASIC, tell them to go :mad: themselves and go see the lovely ladies at the CNS Port Authority. Diane was a champ, in 20 days from initial application and security checks to having the card in my hand, is all it took for the same price. You just need someone on the field to sponser you! They are champs :ok: I asked CASA who I had to sleep with to speed the process up, they were not impressed. Anyway [email protected] is my latest best friend in Canberra. He sorts the clowns out with a few complaints I have made, get him on to it (unlike the abortion known as "CLARC"; he actually replies to his e-mails). I also made a suggestion to CLARC that their hold music should be the kind you hear in the circus dododododo dodo dodo do :E

[chimbu warrior]

Interesting that you guys applied in December and have received your ASIC cards..........I applied in early November, but it is still in the hands of Qantas, with no ETA.

I agree that backdating the cards to the date of application is another classic CASA rip-off. Great system!

[Wheeler]

What are you all complaining about?

Classic CASA 'service': You needed one from Jan 1st, right?

Then they changed the rule a bit so you did not need one until April - so you are no worse off now! So paying from January or when you originally applied leaves you where you were. No point in applying in November when you did not need one until January either. You see, if you had got it in November, you could have worn it, so its only fair you pay for it. The fact that you did not need it is simply because the rule changed for reasons beyond their control

Now, if they were to change the rule again so that you do not need it in April, they are still quite within their rights because you paid for it but you did not need it and if you need it, you should obvisouly pay for it.

Not got mine - I wonder if ASIO are keeping it.

[gaunty]

I have no idea of the reasoning behind the issue date becoming the application date.
However;
It does occur to me though, that were they wishing to set themselves up for a repeat of the recent pressurised scenario with everybody yelling at them, they would give everybody who applied before 31/12/05 the same issue date.

You could then absolutely rely on everybody, despite numerous reminders, to leave it until the last minute, then off we go around the merry go round again. :{ :p

I expect that scheming to "rip you off" is the last thing on their minds right now, or ever for that matter.

[Mr Porter]

Gaunty,

I do agree. I dont think they are aiming to RIP me off and that it probably would be the last thing on their minds, as you say. Sometimes I just cant help but think these things however. They are certianly one of the bigger money grabbing parts of the Australian Government.

Just cant figure out why I have recieved my ASIC and was told that it would be valid for 2 years, when i open the envelope and discover that it has already lost 7 months off it :yuk:

Im going to call them tomorrow so ill post again tomorrow night with my findings.

Cheers........Porter.

[Chadzat]

Your lucky you even have yours! Second week of september the application went in..still nothing!

What is even more confusing for me is that I just recieved my CPL in the mail today (passed it on Feb 17) and its the old style licence?! No photo licence or AVID even though i had the application in for a PPL AVID from AUGUST last year.

[SnoopyDoopy]

Received my ASIC today, and as suspected in an earlier post, is backdated to Sept 05. I could accept Jan 06 since that was the original ASIC requirement date, but Sept is ridiculous.

Now the question is, when do I re-apply to renew my ASIC given it took 7 months to get this one, and not get caught up with everyone else renewing so we get the same debacle again, and not too soon that I don't get 2 year's worth.......!? :hmm:

SnoopyDoopy

[puff]

Lets not let this one rest. I'm sick and tired of CASA charging like wounded bulls then not delivering on their services. At the VERY least this cards should be dated JAN08. If we get no joy out of CASA who do we contact, office of fair trading or the ombudsman? Lets find out and all act. We all lie down and take it from CASA far too often.

[Continental-520]

If any airport security patroller comes up to me all uniformed up in "Protective Service" clothes or whatever, and asks me where my ASIC is, I'm going to fully arc up at him/her and tell them to direct their queries to CASA.

"Exactly, Sir!! Where the hell is my ASIC? I paid for it last August, and still haven't got it!!"

Isn't this fair enough?

Same goes for the renewal. If it doesn't have March 08 on it, I guess I will be forced to reap the worth out of it that I paid for by just not renewing it till March 08, and then just telling the security officers that I've applied for the renewal, but still haven't got it... (!)


520.

[Ando1Bar]

We're giving CASA a hard time, but Qantas aren’t much better. My ASIC has apparently been with Qantas for printing for the last month, and when I called Qantas I was told it was at their Brisbane security office waiting to be picked up. When I called this office to double check they said it wasn't there yet and that CASA would be mailing it out.

I'm feeling a little concerned because a lot of people around me have received their ASIC, but my credit card hasn't even been charged yet despite CASA and Qantas saying each other have it. Is anyone else in a similar position?

One last thing, I passed my instructor rating in December but still have not received the official paperwork for my licence. Have things changed or do they not send these out for instructors anymore (or is it sitting in the queue)?

:confused:

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Can you believe this? One of our Captains showed me his 2, yes TWO, ASICs the other day. He'd just renewed his at QF and had been told the new one couldn't give him the necessary access to the buildings, carparks, aerobridges, GOD's office, etc, so he could keep the old one!!!

Mine was recently renewed... not for 2 years, but for 15 months. "We're staggering them", she said. "I thought you went through all that 2 years ago", I said. So the whole renewal process starts again in 12 months. Jeez. Oh, and mine DOES give me all necessary access, so go figure.

I asked her "since all this started, how many QF pilots have actually had their ASIC refused?" You can imagine the answer.

What a bureaucratic shambles.

Well, at least via the QF process we do get actually them in a timely manner, unlike you poor buggers in GA. But I guess the Canberra bureaucrats wouldn't really tolerate missing/erroneous/expired red tags around the necks of jet RPT pilots. It's good to see that the Einsteins will turn a blind eye for a while at places like Victoria River Downs, Hooker Creek, etc.... But that'd better only be for a few months - no more than that, there are real security risks out there otherwise....

Be alert but not alarmed, right?!

[chimbu warrior]

Ando, do you have a contact in Qantas to call? My email from CASA says QF will contact me, no mention of how to contact them.

QF have now had my details for over 6 weeks...............how long is it going to take?

[FO Cokebottle]

:hmm: Since the Government stated that we can claim the cost of this now "unecessary" card as a tax deduction, has anyone actually received a receipt from CASA?

"Unecessary".....It has been confirmed that you only need an ASIC if you want to venture into the area bounded by the "blue line" at the so called security control airports (BDV etc:confused: ). The area bounded by the blue line is referred to the RPT Ramp area at security controled airports.

[Pharcarnell]

Dated JAN08 and given that they only took 360 days from my application to deliver, I suspect I'd better start the renewal process soon.

[puff]

I got mine too, I applied AFTER the deadline, and have validity till March 2008! So I can't complain, however where is the consistancy with the dates with the rest of you guys?

[puff]

Your lucky you even have yours! Second week of september the application went in..still nothing!
What is even more confusing for me is that I just recieved my CPL in the mail today (passed it on Feb 17) and its the old style licence?! No photo licence or AVID even though i had the application in for a PPL AVID from AUGUST last year.
Chad apparently IF you have an ASIC(which you should eventually) you don't need the paper license with the photo as the photo is on your ASIC.

[RV6]

FO Cokebottle Yes, I received a receipt from CASA last week, confirming they'd debited my credit card on 11th January. Still no ASIC, though. Think I might do as a previous poster suggested, and laminate the receipt and hang it around my neck.

[currawong]

If it is not in the post now, there is no way it will get to you by the deadline.

Just what does "final stages of processing" mean?

I did ask CASA but they could not tell me.

To their credit, they have always been polite when stone walling me.

[Woomera]

Locking this one, see the sticky above for a continuation.

Woomera