View Full Version : Instructor Job going down south
8Hrs-Bottle2Throttle
2nd Feb 2006, 10:37
Just got off the phone to a mate who was gonna take it but decided not to move...
Don't wanna breach pprune policies, but if you visit the Oracle (aka Google) and type in something like "airvan caravan flying school victoria" you may just find them...
Coincidentally with most preps starting their first day today, I remember my first day at primary school in Grade 2 and 3 and it was a great day!
Time is of the essence.
160knots
2nd Feb 2006, 13:43
Is this a full time or casual position? What Grade instructor do they require?
What is the start date? I assume its Tooradin.
jabdriver
2nd Feb 2006, 22:50
160 knots,
I beleive it's immediate start.
PM me for more info.
8Hrs-Bottle2Throttle
5th Feb 2006, 02:38
Apparently looking for Senior Grade 3 and have only received 2 resume's thus far! I can't believe that with all the instructors out there that no-one is ringing... salary poistion!
ani tayas
5th Feb 2006, 03:14
8 hours,
Maybe you need to stand around at mb naked, only wearing an A-frame that says "instructors wanted!". That might get some youngins motivated.:O
Squawk7700
5th Feb 2006, 21:52
Well rather than sit here on the PC theorising about it, I rang them, but unfortunately I wasn't qualified for this job.
They are looking for Snr Grade 3 pref, or grade 2. No charter work at present, but probably later on, perhaps a year or so.
Apparently stacks of TIFS on the books at the moment and plenty of students. A guy has left and another moved into charter, so very busy.
Salary position; certainly sounded like a good position to me.
No Pipers, just Tommy, 172's, Airvans and Decath.
They need someone like THIS week....!
Worth a call...
Squawk7700. Expecting much, to get a Grade2 to travel 2 hours from the city, just to fly constant abinitio. I thought they had more advanced aircraft like the Cirrus etc. How come no charter for a year? Anyway most of the newbies have Instrument ratings. Why would an Instructor with an Instrument Rating let it lapse while he is banging around the circuit in a Tommy?
Squawk7700
6th Feb 2006, 09:36
C152 quotes" Expecting much, to get a Grade2 to travel 2 hours from the city" Ummmm... Tooradin is like 45 minutes from Melbourne; don't know where you got your 2 hours from!
I didn't write the job advert so I don't know.
Name a flying school at Moorabbin that will give any decent amounts of charter work to a grade 3...??? There's like a dozen instructors at some schools there when they really only need a few. It just kills it for everyone out there trying to make a living. I know guys at Moorabbin that struggle to get 30 hours a month.
The Tooradin job is like 70+ AND on a salary...!
Sure they have a couple of Cirruses? Have you ever flown one? Students don't learn to fly in the Cirrus; it's just too expensive. You don't need 200 or 315 horses if you are banging around in a circuit.
As for a year, well I asked and it was a guide. There's stacks of charter stuff there inc joy flights so anything is possible. They also have twins there anyway, so anything is possible.
It's the best job in Melbourne right now by far. If I didn't have to move the Mrs. and kids I'd be there in a flash.
edited (Squawk beat me to it)
From Prahran it takes around 45 minutes each way to Tooradin.
C152R:
Anyway most of the newbies have Instrument ratings.
Maybe at YOUR flying school they do, but there are plenty that don't.
and
Why would an Instructor with an Instrument Rating let it lapse while he is banging around the circuit in a Tommy?
Because they'll get boucoup hours and get paid :hmm:
From what I've seen, not many instructors get to maintain their IFR currency by instructing alone (apart from the obvious).
I don't work for them, but know a few of the guys down there. Lots of work, and if you get on the charters, there's lots of that, too.
Not everyone agrees with how they do things down there, but Tooradin is a booming airport, at a time when YMMB is in a decline.
My 2c
ani tayas
6th Feb 2006, 17:28
What i don't understand, is how there can be so many people complaining about how there are too many pilots and too few jobs. In fact, right now there is another thread titled "too many pilots and instructors". Well if there are so many, why isn't this position being filled. Are people waiting for a call from Qantas with 200hrs???
And just to clarify above, from what i've heard whilst new pilots start instructing and joyflighting on the tommy, 172, cirrus and decath.....usually within 6 months they are given airvan time and charter experience.......
I know from my time at mb (spending more time emptying bins than flying) this would be a great kick-start to anyones career.:ok:
Enough from me for now.
Sexual Chocolate
6th Feb 2006, 22:31
Who the hell knows.....
Mate of mine had a job going recently.
Decent $$, lots hours.
Had over 70 CVs on file.
Went to interview.
Only one guy showed up.
He got the job!
My theory: there's about 3 real wannabes for every couple of jobs in GA, and another 10 who wanna stand on the sidelines and complain cos the charter dudes at YSBK wont give them a chieftan job with 200hrs and an MECIR and who'd want the job anyway cos they dont pay the award and they make you pay for your endorsement and there's only a KFC at the airport and I like McDonalds and aeroplane has green stripes but I like red stripes and....
turbantime
6th Feb 2006, 23:20
there's about 3 real wannabes for every couple of jobs in GA, and another 10 who wanna stand on the sidelines and complain cos the charter dudes at YSBK wont give them a chieftan job with 200hrs and an MECIR
Oh so true regarding the guys complaining they won't get a job. When I moved onto a job flying twins/turbines, everyone asked how I got this gig. My answer was simply that I applied and chased them up every so often. The guys that whinged the most hadn't even bothered putting a resume in.
novicef
7th Feb 2006, 01:15
Ihave been monitoring this dilemma for over two years and talking to wannabes like myself,the general consensus is that there were lots of Grade3 instructors around. Those Grade3s who want to move because their present employer won't upgrade them to a Grade2 can't do so, beause their employers will bad mouth them so that they cant leave.
This way an employer retains the grade3 without having to pay them Grade2 wages. However the GA Award does say that an employer must pay Grade2 wages once a pilot reaches 300 hours, please correct me if Im wrong.
I would love to instruct but when I see this sort of thing happening, is it really worth spending the money to get licences & ratings to be treated like this.
Who the hell knows.....
Mate of mine had a job going recently.
Decent $$, lots hours.
Had over 70 CVs on file.
Went to interview.
Only one guy showed up.
He got the job!
My theory: there's about 3 real wannabes for every couple of jobs in GA, and another 10 who wanna stand on the sidelines and complain cos the charter dudes at YSBK wont give them a chieftan job with 200hrs and an MECIR and who'd want the job anyway cos they dont pay the award and they make you pay for your endorsement and there's only a KFC at the airport and I like McDonalds and aeroplane has green stripes but I like red stripes and....
Damn those wannabes that won't work for under the award sexual!.....who do they think they are!
Sexual Chocolate
7th Feb 2006, 03:35
Who do they think they are? Well please enlighten me puff cos to be quite honest I've allways wondered.
Pilot job = lots of people want = employer goes with best option (someone who'll pay for endorsement, work for little $$ etc, and fly the aircraft just as well as puff will).
Just in case puff didn't understand, here's a non-aviation analogy for puff.....
Sexy girlfirend = lots of people want = sexy girl goes with best option (good looking guy with personality, money etc etc). Keep holding out puff, i'm sure one day puff will find a chick who loves puff cos puff's ugly, poor and boring.
May be puff should find something like:
Crappy job = not many people want = employee goes with best option (best pay, best hours, best conditions). Make sure to explain law of market forces to employer when they ask puff why he will only work for above the award....
jabdriver
7th Feb 2006, 07:43
Nice analogy SC, hope puff doesn't take it too personally....hehe
I think we all know by now that it is supply VS demand, and in the aviation industry, supply is always going to be in excess.
But from what i've heard of Tooradin, whatever anyone says, they do treat their staff well. All receive the award salary (including their 4/6 weeks paid annual leave) as well as a generally friendly and supportive environment. Apparently the boss is a real friendly character.
So, it appears to me that this opportunity has the best of both worlds.
And people actually wonder why this industry is the way it is........you have it in one post. You completely agree with the way employers treat pilots because 'thats the way it is', way to make a change buddy. Why not pay them for the priviledge of flying their precious aircraft.
Fair days pay for a fair days work, an Award wage..my god WHAT was I thinking! I do apologise, I am so foolish, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
jabdriver
8th Feb 2006, 02:06
Hey puff,
I think you missed the point of my post, so before you get all huffed and 'puffed' out, let me explain.
All I meant to say, was that at TDN the conditions are better than the 'expected' for aviation. If only more small companies treated their staff this way, then you wouldn't get so angry all the time.
No-one including myself condones the way the insustry functions. I'm sure most of the people posting on this site have not only experieced but accepted such conditions at some stage. Unfortunately, it takes more than one person to change an industry.
Runway37
8th Feb 2006, 02:25
Crickey! I've never heard so much bitching by *grown* men before. (sorry if any of you were women)
This thread started as what looked like a job advert for a good salary position with the promise of good flying hours and has ended up a bitch about salaries!
If you're not happy where you are, find another job elsewhere! or better still change jobs. For the cost of an Instrument rating, one could do a computer course, earn more than twice the salary and fly on the weekends for fun.
jabdriver
8th Feb 2006, 02:48
Well said Rwy37,
That kind of thing happens quite regulary here....doesn't it.
;)
VH-XXX
8th Feb 2006, 22:21
Hi, just wondering if this job has been taken yet? It's hard to tell what's going on coz some of the guys posting sound like they work there and the thread has got a little confused with other stuff about working under the award....????
SeaCaptain
8th Feb 2006, 23:12
Arrrrrrgggghhhhh me maties,
Life is much less complicated on the high seas.......
Happy sailing.:ok:
Let strong winds always fill your sails.......arrggghhh!
novicef
9th Feb 2006, 00:43
I have been on this forum just on 2 weeks. Is it true as has been suggested that there are posts here from employees within that school telling us of the good working conditions?
I would have thought that flying being such a close community that the working conditions of each flying school would have been known.
How is it that If this school is only 45mins from Melbourne and even closer toMoorabbin that it can attract only 2 resumes?I would have thought that with the large instructor population at Moorabbin & Essendon they would have been overwhelmed with applications.I see they have 2 CFI's Why?
Am I being naive? I have learnt more in 2 weeks about this industry than the few years hanging around airports. Thank you PPRUNE I'm learning a lot.
Di_Vosh
9th Feb 2006, 01:24
Some good questions in your post.
Is it true as has been suggested that there are posts here from employees within that school telling us of the good working conditions?
That's always an issue on an anonymous forum, such as this one. Read the warning in red at the bottom of this page, and bear it in mind whenever you read a post.
Having said that, it is a SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS in D&G that most employee comments tend to slag off the places that they're working for (or have just left). :(
I see they have 2 CFI's Why?
From what I know, there is a CFI for GA and a CFI for Ultra lights (I may be wrong about this); so two different people.
As to why no-one seems to have applied, who knows? For all we know, they may have been inundated with responses. You'll have to contact them to find out, though. ;) .
As to why people may not want to relocate there, the answer is a little more complex, and involves individual comfort zones (i.e. is the next job so good that I'm willing to leave this job?), other flying school reputations, etc.
Lastly, I DON'T work for them (and am unlikely to work for them, either). I know their (GA) CFI personally, and have a lot of time for him.
Anyway, keep on asking questions like that, and you'll learn more! :D
Cheers,
DIVOSH
Good Q novice your learning fast. Just look at the handles and the various profiles. It Doesen't take Einstein where these posts originate. Jabdriver not a very original handle Sea captain do you fly the sea plane there. Di Vosh you fly PA31's their largest twin is a PA31 if you don't work there, its pointless working there anyway.
The GA CFI used to work at Moorabbin I'm told. He is well known.
Gees what an industry?
Di_Vosh
9th Feb 2006, 03:37
Di Vosh you fly PA31's their largest twin is a PA31 if you don't work there, its pointless working there anyway.
I wish you'd think before you posted. I already said that I don't work there.
Do you know my circumstances? What makes you think that I wouldn't apply for a different Chieftain job? Did you know that they also fly a Caravan? Maybe I'd like to apply for a Caravan position. Sure, it's a single, but a bit of turbine time might appeal.
DIVOSH!
8Hrs-Bottle2Throttle
9th Feb 2006, 03:57
Enough whining and bitching and theorising, now it's my turn; straight from the horses mouth
8hrs-bottle2throttle - me the original poster who donsn't work at the school; posted this thread in an attempt to help out a friend who is not pprune aware, by covertly advertising a position for the school.
The school was after a Snr Grade 3, or perhaps grade 2 to fill the shoes of a departing instructor and another instructor who now does mostly charter.
I'd like to thank those of you very much (you know who you are) that took a genuine interest in what was a genuine job offered by a genuine employer and actually took a plunge and sent in your Resume's. Your resume's have been taken on board and reviewed. I believe a suitable candidate has been chosen, but they may not actually be aware of it yet; it was a Ppruner. Of course, the next step would be for him to accept the position and move, which means that anyone else still has a chance.
For those of you who just sat there bitching and whinging about how there are no jobs in GA, or perhaps how this job isn't legit, it's too good to be true, or whatever...- I wish you all the very best in your future endeavours in finding future employment, because you WILL need it. Whilst you are sitting back wasting time, others are out there getting off their butts and really trying to make a name for themselves and get some hours under their belt.
No some more facts:
- The position is / was a good salary position
- "Expected" hours were 70+ per month minimum
- TFS is a reputable operator with good track record
- There is 1 (one) CFI of TFS
- There are 2 x RA-Aus CFI's (hence the confusion)
- The instructor being replaced flew charter and now does that full time
- The other vacancy is for someone who started there only a year ago and has now secured a big twin position elsewhere
They operate (fact):
- C208B
- PA31
- Cirrus SR 20
- Cirrus SR 22
- C172's
- Tommy
- Decath
and several others.
The following posters are not employees or associated with TFS in any way:
- 160 knots
- Jabdriver
- ani tayas
- Squawk7700
- C152R (the biggist cynic of all!)
- Sykes
- Sexual chocolate
- TurbanTime
- NoviceF
- Puff
- Runway37
- VH-XXX
- SeaCaptain (is not a RA-AUS float-plane driver from TFS!!!)
- DiVosh (thanks for you posts, most helpful)
Other facts:
- Tooradin is around 45-55 minutes from the Centre of Melbourne, close to Cranbourne and Pakenham and around 35-40 minutes from Moorabbin
- Many of you should try and spend your time on something more constructive and not waste your time in front of the computer screen when you are supposed to be a pilot.
That is all, and remember, 8 Hours from Bottle to Throttle!
Quote. DinVosh.
Maybe I'd like to apply for a Caravan position. Sure, it's a single, but a bit of turbine time might appeal.
Lastly, I DON'T work for them (and am unlikely to work for them, either). I know their (GA) CFI personally, and have a lot of time for him.
I'm sure the guy concerned is a great guy. Looks a bit like self interest wouldn't you say??
So 8 Hours Bottle. I'm sure everybody is now enlightened. So this new guy that's been chosen is being advised by telegram? I guess GA down South haven't heard of Mobiles & SMS.
8Hrs-Bottle2Throttle
9th Feb 2006, 04:27
Well unlike Mr. C152R (gee what a great aircraft), he's probably out flying now, building his hours and his mobile is perhaps out of range... when he returns to his phone and listens to his voice-mail, he will no doubt find out that he has a great new job.
No telegrams down here. TFS is modern, just take a look at the website and you'll see for yourself. Name somewhere else with 3 Cirruses on line?
SeaCaptain
9th Feb 2006, 06:35
Cessna 152R,
The seacaptain does not appreciate your insubordination and wild accusations. There used to be a time where you could sail the seas in peace.
And for the record, the seacaptain would never trade his ship for a floating plane.
I think it be the plank for you me matie!:}
Arrrghhh!
Runway37
9th Feb 2006, 09:25
8 hrs quotes:
"Name somewhere else with 3 Cirruses on line?"
Hmmm.... what do you call multiple Cirrus, are they Cirrui?
ani tayas
9th Feb 2006, 09:44
Cirrui???
I think it's Cirri (pron. Si-rye). :confused:
btw SeaCaptain, I heard your plank was considered a short walk!
And Squawk7700, seeing as that you know so much about TDN (but don't work there....not that there's anything wrong with that), do they do training on the Cirri there??
There's nothing like the knowledge that no matter how much you stuff up there's always a lever to pull to bring you down to earth. :O
VH-XXX
9th Feb 2006, 10:35
I'm in Vic and I enquired about a Cirrus endorsement a while back. When I spoke to Steve Maltby the importer in QLD he said that Tooradin was the only authorised Cirrus Flight Training Centre in Southern AUS, so I went and did mine there. Last check I made, there were 3 of them down there; 2 x 20 and a 22. NICE ! The 22 has the new TAWS... it talks to you when point it at the ground! WARNING, WARNING Will Robertson!!
The CAPS / Parachute is very impressive. Something like 135 knots max deployment speed so you need to level off if the wings falls off to reduce speed before deployment!!!
There was a thread on the Cirrus's (Cirri?) a while back if you want to know more.