1st Pilot Log Book Entries?

[culzean12]

Under what circumstances should you log 1st Pilot hours? I'm a bit confused as to when I should log hours as dual and when I should log as 1st pilot. And can I borrow some Tipex!?

[tu chan go]

Any sortie where you are under instruction on a recognised syllabus is logged as dual. If you fly with another pilot on any other sortie, and you are qualified as a 1st pilot on that aircraft (Section 2 in your logbook), you can both claim it as 1st pilot but only one of you can claim as Captain.

Hope this answers your query.:) :)

[wg13_dummy]

Log it as dual if you have flown with a QHI/QFI and it has been an instructional sortie. Everything else should be 1st Pilot.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Caveat on WG13's post...

Only after you have qualified as 1st pilot on type.

[BEagle]

Caveat on Roland's post:

If you are a non-PPL holding UAS student who has flown Das Teutor solo, but then fly as a ballast with a non-QFI on some air experience trip, the flight time will not be counted towards any civil licence requirements and will be considered as passenger flying only.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Caveat on Septic rules

Log it as dual if you have flown with a QHI/QFI and it has been an instructional sortie.

you can log it as PIC if you are receiving instruction for an a/c you are certificated in. For instance you have your private, but are receiving instruction for an instrument rating or a Flight Review.



Caveat on my caveat

...err, I think :confused:

[Lafyar Cokov]

And if they are bigger than about 2 inches long, pink with 6 'legs' they are Crevettes and if you can wear them round your neck they are Cravats.

Hope this clears that up.

Caveating my Cavitation....:\

[culzean12]

Thanks for that. One extra Q > When are hours logged as 2nd pilot?

[BEagle]

When flying as the non-handling co-pilot in an aircraft certified as requiring 2 pilot operation.

[Bertie Thruster]

...........but RAF rotary claim the non handling pilots hours (on 2 pilot helos) as 1st pilot non captain.

at least they did 10 years ago!

[Flik Roll]

When flying as the non-handling co-pilot in an aircraft certified as requiring 2 pilot operation.

I was told/under the impression that if you fly on an SPF/SCT (the instructors but stude flies) trip you can claim that as 2nd pilot in a civvy log book.

Is that correct?

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

sorry to ask a dumb question, but what do Navs put into their log books?

[Onan the Clumsy]

...pictures of scantily clad young ladies of course :E

[BEagle]

Flik Roll - what you describe should not be recorded as P2 time in a civil logbook. It is considered to be passenger flying. Quite interesting passenger flying, but passenger flying nonetheless.

You cannot ever be 'P2' in a single pilot aeroplane under JAR-FCL.

[Hummingfrog]

Not true Beags

"You cannot ever be 'P2' in a single pilot aeroplane under JAR-FCL"

In my particular a/c (AS365N2) which is certified as a SPIFR the copilot logs P2 when we fly 2 crew iaw company SOPS as it has more than 9 seats.

HF

[BEagle]

Hf -the AS365N2 is a helicopter, not a single pilot aeroplane!

You cannot ever be 'P2' in a single pilot aeroplane under JAR-FCL.

[Onan the Clumsy]

The seppos had an 'arrangement' where if you were practicing for an instrument rating and were under the hood, you required a safety pilot and both of you got to log PIC as you were both "required crew members". I don't know if you count that as a "single pilot aeroplane ".

At least that's what the school I went to made us do :yuk:

They're out of business now btw :}

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

I suspect that Flik Roll is 'under the impression' rather than 'had been told', unless, of course it was by another stude...or a B2! :)

Dunc

[BEagle]

Onan - yes, the septics do indeed have such a system. But hours logged under that 'double P1' system won't count under JAR-FCL....

[Onan the Clumsy]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :ooh: :{


s'not that many fortunately

[Dan Winterland]

LAS Section A Appendix B has the relevant info.

It also refers to about logging taxi time. Service pilots are heavily disadvantaged when it comes to logging hours. You can factor your hours according to a table in LASORS (up to a maximimum of 75 for licence issue) but this only allows you 10 minutes for most aircraft, 15 for multi engine. And not all employers recognise taxy time in your hours total when it comes to getting that job or being assessed for command. I added some 450 hours taxi time to a total of 4200 hours after 16 years in the RAF. One of my present collegues amassed 4500 hours flying for a low cost airline in 5 years. He was assessed for command ahead of me and he's still in his 20's.

Since leaving the mob and now flying commercially, I think there have been only a handful of flights where have spent less than 15 minutes on the ground. Most are about 20 to 25, the most was over 2 hours - all time that went in my logbook.

My advice to anyone starting out in Military flying now is to keep a separte civilian logbook logging 'block times', i.e. chock to chock.

[BEagle]

"My advice to anyone starting out in Military flying now is to keep a separate civilian logbook logging 'block times', i.e. chock to chock."

Absolutely right Dan! I've been advising folks to do that for about 12 years now - but some simply can't be bothered, it seems....

Civil logbooks are a doddle to maintain. No monthly summaries, no annual summaries - just the threat that if they are used to falsify any licence application, then a large fine and/or custodial sentence upon conviction may result!