Speed Limit in Open FIR?

[C172Navigator]

I have a question on speed limits in Class G/Open FIR airspace.

Last night I was inbound to Edinburgh from Copenhagen, descending through the open FIR towards Talla talking to Scottish on 124.5, when I told to expect to hold at Tweed.
We were doing 300 knots a the time, passing through about FL200, and I asked if we could starting slowing down, and if so what affect this would have on our position in the hold. The response I got was that the controller didn't know, but as we were in open FIR we should be at 250 knots anyway - in effect telling us we were too fast.

Is there are a 250 knot speed limit in open FIR / Class G airpspace? I know the 250 knot limit below 10,000 ft, but neither myself nor my captain understood the controllers remark. On departure to Copenhagen we are in open FIR until reaching FL245 (most days) and always do above 270-300 knots and never get told anything regarding over-speeding.

Hopefully someone here could put us right. Thanks.

[chevvron]

For civil aircraft , yes

[PPRuNe Radar]

For civil aircraft in Class G airspace, the speed restriction is 250Kts maximum BELOW FL100. An exception is if the aircraft cannot comply for airworthiness reasons, however a CAA exemption is required for this.

None of the above exempts an aircraft complying with a published speed for a published procedure such as a hold or a STAR.

Looking at the Edinburgh plates, there is a 250Kts speed limit either 3 minutes flying time from the holding facility or when crossing the Speed Limit Point. But this doesn't apply until you are FL140 or below. So you could crack on in at high speed for another 6000' feet of descent in your example (minus any time needed to slow down to 250Kts before passing FL140 if you are within the 3 minutes flying time or past the SLP), unless instructed by the controller to fly a specific speed for separation/sequencing.

[C172Navigator]

Thanks for the info prrune radar.

[javelin]

340kts to 15 miles. no speedbrakes, configure, land !

Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast - Woof Woof :E

p.s. Airbus only - Boeing would be goin ...............

Round that is !

[Regular Cappuccino]

340kts to 15 miles. no speedbrakes, configure, land !



So that's why I keep taking you through the ILS.....!:D

[rolaaand]

Hi C172. Was working TALLA sector that day. Pretty messy because of the fog.
The TAY controller (124.5) was being honest when he said that he didn't know if slowing down would affect your place in the queue at TWEED. It's not in his sector and he genuinely would'nt know.
I think there has been some confusion over the class G airspace speed limit. You are correct, it is 250kts below FL100,except for military aircraft.
You say that on departure no-one mentions anything about speed limits despite the fact that you are in open FIR until passing FL245, not so. The TMA boundary is about 12-15(ish) miles from EGPH so even with an early direct routieng off the TALLA SID you are usually above FL100 by the time you cross the boundary. On the inbound route,depending on your aircraft type (i'm guessing your's is E145) you may have to slow down below FL100 in any case.
I'm not sure how the confusion arose, but as always if in any doubt, just ask or ,as in this case, if it's not safety critical at the time,give the centre a call when you land, this way you can perhaps discuss it with the atco while it is still fresh in the memory.
Cheers,rolaaand.

[C172Navigator]

Thanks rolaand, I was just trying to clarify things for my own mind. Was pretty foggy that day! And thanks for the service you chaps provide.