FAA to JAA, is it worth it (Merged)?

[Heph224]

1450 TT, with 600 Multi all in Piston Aircraft.
I have an FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate and Legal right to work in Europe.

Is it worth my time and effort to convert to JAA?
Should I do the conversion in the USA or will it be cheaper in Europe?
If I do convert, what are the chances of landing a decent job with my experience? I really don't want to pay for a type rating unless I really have to......

Tnx

[boogie-nicey]

I'm no expert but from I gather in general:

You'll have to do the writtens though they can be done in the US but you'll need to attend compulsory 2 weeks classroom study at the end of each phase (2 phases).

I think you can do the Commercial at an JAA approved school in the US like Naples Air Centre, EFTA, Phoneix something or another :)

But the IR test and maybe some hours have to be done in Europe. The whole FAA to JAA thing is not so much a conversion but a means to protect the European market. You'll also get the obligatory "you do not know wnaything about flying until we have taught you" attitude as it appears the laws of physics are different in Europe.

At the same time it's almost impossible to find work with a FAA certificate (though a 1% chance might exist somewhere). If you can build up the time to many thousands then there might be some exemptions :)-

PM if you want more information. Happy flying and take care.

[Dirty Harry 76]

Heph224

Sounds like you have some good experiance. Unlike the USA that has too many Wanabees and Experianced Pilots there is a shortage of experianced guys/gals in Europe.......that is Type rated with experiance on Multi Crew Aircraft.

Basically from your post, if your 600 multi is in a multi crew aircraft I wouldnt think you would wait too long for a call for interview in JAR Land right now. If its not multi-crew then you will basically have to stand inline with everyone else, however, given your experiance/TT I dont think your Resume would go unoticed on a Chief Pilots desk.

Be prepared to pay for or be bonded for a Type Rating.

If you choose to convert Good Luck with the General Nav exam:{

[A320rider]

if you have the legal right to work in the USA, stay in the US.
here in europe it s harder, and not cheaper!

my friends and I have looked for jobs for 2 years, and no one interview.
we have to many hours (2000h each)and now they say we need 500h on boeing just to apply.

[mad_jock]

Heph224 have a search for all A320rider's posts.

You will find there is very good reason why he doesn't have a job and proberly never will have.

You will need to have a read of a book called lasors

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=175&pagetype=68&groupid=780

To see which hoops you will have to jump through I think its the ATPL exams which you can do through any of the companys that are mentioned in the forum. The cpl is training as required and test and the IR is a minimum 15 hour course with 2 flight tests. You can do the CPL and the ground school in the US if you like but not the ground exams.

As long as you are not fussed what you fly the job market in the UK is pretty good just now. Lots of people are getting turboprop jobs with low hours. There are quite a few jet jobs about as well.

With those multi hours you will be quite a good catch for air taxi operators. So if you do come across I would be suprised if you arn't flying proffesionally quite quickly. To be honest your not even in the same league as most wannabies on this forum. There will be very few with that amount of twin hours on the market.

Good luck

MJ

[scroggs]

First of all you will have to have the right to live and work in Europe. If you're a US citizen with no EU nationality, you will probably not be able to work here - as is the case for a European in the US. (Edit - apologies! You've stated you have the right to work here!)

Secondly, there is no choice about converting your licence. The FAA ATPL is not recognised here, so you would be restricted to N-registered aircraft if you did not convert. There are very few N-registered aircraft working out of EU airports, as you would expect.

If you meet the residence and licence criteria, your chances of landing a job may be better than average with your experience and hours. However, even though the UK is arguably the most active aviation employment market worldwide just now, Europe as a whole is not that much better placed than the US. There are more wannabes than jobs, that's for certain...

Scroggs

[mad_jock]

Just as a wee hint, when you do move over here be a bit canny where you base yourself for applying for jobs.

The South east is full of pilots looking for jet jobs the further north you go generally the better it gets (less pilots applying for the jobs). Aberdeen seems to absorb instructors quicker than they start work. Generally Southern pilots get bypassed for pilots with local addresses due mainly to the fact that locals stay longer and don't disappear as soon as they become useful. The usual excuse is that it's cold dark, wet and miserable (which to be honest is all true). Also the further north you go the better standard of living you get for your money. A starting salary on a TP up north is about 20k. This will put you on a equivalent standard of living as a 35k jet FO in the SE if not better.

MJ

[Flaps 1 billion]

what do you think the job market would look like for a guy with 1200hrs, 500 turbine but little multi, about 20. I'm in Canada but born a Brit. Just need to get that multi crew time to lower the cost of it all.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

If I was you Heph224, I would stay in the US and try for the regionals. The costs and time involved in the conversion process are staggering. Take this from someone with similar experience to yourself who is at the end of the conversion. The minimums for the conversion are just that; minimums. It will be much more expensive than you think and the theoretical exams will make your life hell. At the end if you are lucky will get a decent TP or taxi job and they just don't pay enough to justify the expense. If it's a jet job you're after you will need some turbine hours or a TR. Why not get your FAA ATP and see if you can get a decent corporate job back in the States? It's not all doom and gloom over here but I just can't see how you justify the conversion.

[A320rider]

do not listen the idiots on this board telling you it s "pink" everywhere in UK.
that is a lie!that comes from students who take their desires for a reality...

convert a license is a gamble, many have failed, and many are now in full debt and try to file bankrupt.
a small company with 2-5 planes receive thousand of CV every month from ALL over europe.your best bet is to live close of a company as mad joke said.

[WX Man]

The hardest thing about converting your licence (even considering your experience) will getting to grips with the IR.

Flying IFR in uncontrolled airspace in the UK has lots of little nuances, many of which only become apparent when they actually occur. Experience... it's what you get when you least want it!

The ground exams will take 6 months full time studying or 12 months part time- and that's if you really go for it.

The CPL is no problem. A simple "tick in the box" exercise with very little relevance to flying commercially in the real world (unless flying commercially involves pootling around on a VFR route single pilot in a PA28R). Because you will be converting your FAA CPL, you will simply have to do "training as required", plus 170A, then test. Tip: if you do do it, do this bit in the USA.

[Flying-Corporal]

How difficult is it to find a job witht the FAA license in Europe? Can an airline pay for a JAA conversion and a type?

[-IBLB-]

How difficult is it to find a job witht the FAA license in Europe? very, unless you have lots and lots of hours, and even then it is putting alot of eggs in a very small basket.

Can an airline pay for a JAA conversion and a type?They can, but they won't

[6076FtHigh]

1450 TT, with 600 Multi all in Piston Aircraft.
I have an FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate and Legal right to work in Europe.
Is it worth my time and effort to convert to JAA?
Should I do the conversion in the USA or will it be cheaper in Europe?
If I do convert, what are the chances of landing a decent job with my experience? I really don't want to pay for a type rating unless I really have to......
Tnx


Hi,

For what it's worth....
Your experience levels are not unlike mine when I converted 8 years ago. I believe the rules have changed somewhat since JAA (I converted to a CAA).
I also believe the job market is at a similar strength, if not better.
So, yes, I DO think you could land a decent job with your experience. Having been involved in recruitment it appears (at least on paper) you fit the bill of at least some airlines in the UK.

I agree with you not to pay for a rating unless you really have to as quite often companys like to see it backed up with some experience on type anyway.

Good luck
:ok:

[kgmaviates]

After having flown in the US under FAA ATPL for 5 years, i obtained (no conversion any more!) my JAR ATPL 3 years ago. It is hard work, you will have to sit all 14 exams and do a full approved IR course (I was fortunate not have to cause i had alot of jet time). It costs money and time, HOWEVER, i have not looked back. The opportunities in europe are really opening up, the US is not a good place to be at the mo and also european airlines generally require less total time than the US companies. I have ended up with a job with one of the majors in UK. IT is worth it, but you have to be really focused....but like all of aviation nothing is guaranteed. One piece of important advice.....speak to the CAA and email them and get things in writing...thats very important. Tell them your experience level and what you are hoping to achieve and then get them to write you back with their requirements....they are notorious for changing their minds otherwise! If I can be of any other help please let me know. (I did my JAR ATPL by correspondance with Oxford Aviation Training, their 2 2week crammer courses for the exams were really good as they have the biggest and most accurate question bank available for JAR exams). Good Luck!:)

[sealy101]

I have 2400 tt 1500 multi on crj200, dual citizenship (us and uk) if I converted my faa to jaa that chance would I have wth the majors in the uk.
Ps: I am 35yrs old and beleive that plays a factor in Europe.

Wrong forum for your query. People of your experience should be in Terms and Endearments, not Wannabes. Read this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=162539) for the explanation.

Scroggs

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Heph 224
It is worthwhile doing the conversion, maybe speak to a couple of people stateside and see if you could arrive over here with a SIC rating on something like the 500 series of Citations, you would need to actually have it added to your license (with the new 61.55 rules) as opposed to logbook entries as you are operating outside the US.
You may find a little bit of work whilst you are studying, It would be very strange to have an American citizen flying around in a European N reg bizjet!!!
It would also keep you current.
Best of Luck

[maverick777]

i did most of my initial training in an FAA school in Florida. I got all FAA ratings and all JAA rating except the JAA Multi engine instrument rating which MUST be done in European airspace at a JAR approved school.

I think the biz jet operators like to see FAA and JAA licences as they have N reg and G/EI reg aircraft. Looks great on CV too!

You are in a very privelaged position having the right to live and work in both. Make the best of it my friend.

maverick