Yokes v Sticks

[Alvin Steele]

I've discovered I have a pathological dislike of control yokes in light aircraft.
I learnt in the good old Cessna 150 and didnt know any different, before having a quick spell in a Supercub for a tailwheel sign-off.......(I didnt fully appreciate the Cub's stick at the time because I was learning the importance of rudders in a tailwheeler)
Then it was back to the Cessna before discovering the delightful Robin DR400 complete with joystick....I have flown them ever since, apart from a few aerobatic hours in the superb stick equipped Bulldog.
Recently curiosity led me to get a check out in a PA28.....sorry, but I didnt enjoy it, and found the yoke unwieldy and I couldnt believe I flew the Cessna so long, I don't think my opinion was clouded by the fact that I flew like a 1 hour struggling student who has just had weeks of weather cancellations.
I don't reckon I would have got my tailwheel or aero's sign-off if the plane hadnt been stick equipped.......and thats no yoke........sorry:O

I know tail-wheel oldtimers favour the traditional stick, but just wondered what other peoples opinions were on the subject?

[ChampChump]

Having discussed this on occasion with others, I think that one tends to relate most easily to what one first encountered.
I'm a Sticker, having started my flying in gliders. Although I am very fond of the trusty C-150, I could (and can) only fly one by holding the yoke in the centre. This doesn't work as well in other aircraft of the same family controlled rather more - er - ponderously, but is still more effective than trying to do, badly, what the yoke designers intended.

I think I should be very embarrassed by this, but I don't often need to demonstrate, thank goodness :)

A good job I'm not ChiefChump...

[englishal]

I always flew aeroplanes with yokes......And I bought one with a stick. I would never go back willingly, the stick is much nicer to fly, more comfortable (two fingers resting your hands in your lap). Trouble is there is no where to clip my yoke-mounted-stop-watch-bulldog-clip-approach-plate-holder.....;)

[Ultralights]

agreed, having speant my learning years in piper Archers and Arrows, i thought the Yoke was great, then i discovered the Jabiru, KR2 , Once youv'e had stick, you'll never go back!

even though i still fly the Arrow occasionally to take PAX etc, i find myself wishing for a stick very soon.

[S-Works]

I learnt in sticks and own 3 yoke aircraft! I fail to see what the drama is about really. I switch backwards and forwards between stick and yoke all the time as I do between training wheel and tail wheel.

For IFR flight I much prefer a yoke. But at the end of the day I question the adaptability of any pilot who can manage something as simple as the controls.......

;)

[Kolibear]

I too learnt in a C150, with yoke, then moved into a Koliber with a stick, which was far, far better.

But its probably worth remembering that the stick was connected to the ailerons via rods, there were no cables and pulleys, so there was very little backlash in the system.

[High Wing Drifter]

I don't really think there is much between them in the kind of A to B flying that I do. My limited time on the Vagabond judges that the stick is more intuitive but can actually quite cumbersome because the stick comes back quite far and so I found it very difficult to finish off a wing down landing. The thought also occured to me with the Supercub that wing down approaches would be easier with a yoke but I have no comparable experience. However, the stick is more fun!

But somehow an Arrow or Seneca with a stick...hmmm. Nah :)

[FlyingForFun]

Bose-X is the only one so far to mention the purpose of the flight.

For aerobatics, definitely a stick. For IFR flight, definitely a yoke. For anything in between, it's not quite so clear cut.

Alvin - I noticed that you learnt on a Cessna, but it was only on flying the PA28 that you realised you don't like yokes? The PA28 yoke is much bigger than the Cessna's, and although I learnt to fly on a PA28 and thought the yoke was absolutely fine then, now that I regularly swap between Cessnas and Pipers I prefer the Cessna yoke over the Piper's any day.

FFF
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[IO540]

I've been in, but never flown, a plane with a stick.

The feedback from pilots who have done both concurs with FFF. Cirrus pilots appear to spend most of their time on autopilot, because it's reportedly difficult to fly with the spring-loaded stick for very long.

I wonder what the DA40 (centre stick) is like to fly IFR, manually.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The stick is the ideal control for an aeroplane. Compared to a yoke one can input a control movement more quickly and more accurately, especially if it's a combination of pitch and roll.

Also, the stick allows for a simpler and more direct connection by pushrods to the ailerons in particular, and so has the potential (if well engineered) for a nicer 'feel'.

If the aeroplane has no pretensions to 'good handling', then this probably doesn't matter. But I could never understand why dH fitted some Mosquitos with yokes while others had sticks.

SSD

[IO540]

You can have a yoke with rod (not cable) linkages. The TB20 has rods; very firm and precise, no backlash. Only the elevator trim uses a cable.

[FlyingForFun]

IO540,

Have only ever flown a Cirrus once, but from that brief flight my opinion was that any issues with the controls would be due to the trim system, not due to the stick itself. In fact, I got to quite like it after 20 minutes or so.

FFF
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[Alvin Steele]

FFF, learning on the 150 the yoke was all I knew,I had no comparison at that time, but when it came to a DR400 check-out, I was pleasantly surprised to find my flying more accurate and it felt more intuiative (sp)? with the stick.
If I'm honest, I wasnt keen on the PA28 at all (but thats a debate for another day).....apologies to any PA28 fans/owners.:oh:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Horses for courses!

I own one of each (stick, yoke, bar) and have done for a reasonable number of years.

For a small, light manoeuverable aeroplane a stick generally gives the best control and feedback. For long cruises, or an aeroplane with very high forces, a yoke is more comfortable and allows better mechanical advantage. For the combination of (often) high forces combined with (sometimes) rapid inputs needed, I'd go for the bar on my flexwing.


Mind you, if I had to pick just one, it'd be a stick! For a 3-axis aeroplane anyhow.

G

[captain_flynn]

I prefer the yoke, however the planes that i've trained on so far (C152, C172 and PA-38 Tomahawk) all have yokes. I did have abit of a go of a Europa last year which has a stick, it wasnt as bad as I thought it would be but I just prefer the yoke. :cool:

[cirrus01]

Simple.......... DRIVE with a wheel (yoke )
FLY with a stick !!!

:) :) :)

[Alvin Steele]

Despite the above, we all want sticks so we can pretend to be jet jockies!

:D :D

I do feel more like a real pilot with one, in the PA28 I may as well have been downwind in a Ford Focus.

[Final 3 Greens]

I wonder if there is a degree of snobbery here?

I'd bet a fiver that most people haven't flown a PA28 or C150 to the edge of the envelope (I know that I haven't), but they still like to sneer how car like it is.

Well, I've flown sticks and yokes and ram's heads and....

The PA28/32 yoke was sometimes a little awkward to get fully back in the flare

The PA23 yoke was fluid and a delight to use

The 150 yoke was little :}

Sticks are less convenient for plates etc, but are lovely to use otherwise

Rams heads are very easy for cross wind landings from either side, no sprained wrists

As Bose X says, there are things that should worry most of us more.

Perhaps the people who specifically need a yoke or a stick also need a special pair of flying shoes too.....

[TheKentishFledgling]

I wonder if there is a degree of snobbery here?

I'd bet a fiver that most people haven't flown a PA28 or C150 to the edge of the envelope (I know that I haven't), but they still like to sneer how car like it is.

Well, I've flown sticks and yokes and ram's heads and....

The PA28/32 yoke was sometimes a little awkward to get fully back in the flare

The PA23 yoke was fluid and a delight to use

The 150 yoke was little :}

Sticks are less convenient for plates etc, but are lovely to use otherwise

Rams heads are very easy for cross wind landings from either side, no sprained wrists

As Bose X says, there are things that should worry most of us more.

Perhaps the people who specifically need a yoke or a stick also need a special pair of flying shoes too.....


Showing total ignorance here, but do many a/c other than Concorde have ram heads?

tKF

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Showing total ignorance here, but do many a/c other than Concorde have ram heads?
tKF


Tridents did - except the ones delivered to China, who specified standard yokes. :hmm:

SSD

[FlyingForFun]

It is generally (but not always) the case that pilots tend to fly with their left hands with yokes, and their right hands with sticksI can't think of enough examples to back up my theory, but my intuition says that this is more to do with whether the aircraft has tandem or side-by-side seating?

FFF
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[shortstripper]

Well i started off flying gliders (stick in right hand) then flew Tigermoths (stick in right hand) then Cessnas (yoke in left hand) then various in- betweens. Most recently I fly a falconar (like a Jodel) which is stick in left hand. This was the one that took the most getting used to as the others were all alike... ie, stick always in right, yoke always in left. I've also flow a weightshift microlight and even that wasn't too bad ... except (and this was really strange to get used to "in fact I never mastered it") the throttle was foot operated like a car! and over the rudder pedal like a Piper's brake. Even that's not correct ... the "rudder" pedal was actually just a bar steering the front wheel in go-cart sense, ie, push with your right foot to turn left! All very odd, but it really is surprising how you soon get used to chopping and changing :8

SS

[Pitts2112]

Interesting thread and some of the assertions about which is "better" or "more accurate" are equally interesting. Until recently, I was flying both a stick and a yoke and felt equally comfortable with both, one in my right hand, the other in my left. I do think I'd find it weird to use a stick with my left and a yoke with my right, but I'm sure I'd soon get used to it.

Funny thing about which is "more accurate". Do you know which aircraft types were flown by the top 2 scoring American aces during WW2? Majs Dick Bong and Tommy McGuire both flew P-38s in the Pacific and scored 40 and 38 confirmed kills respectively. Control type in the P-38? Yoke. And flown with which hand? The right. It would appear accuracy is in the hands of the be"holder".

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_pto_aces.html
http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/p-38_lightning/p-38_lightning_1.asp

Pitts2112

[Final 3 Greens]

.... and Luftfurher Todt nach der Russkis (or whatever his name was) scored 3,086 in a Bf109 on the Eastern front, with a stick :}

[High Wing Drifter]

Kentish,
Showing total ignorance here, but do many a/c other than Concorde have ram heads?
I've also heard them called rabbits ears. I think the Embraer regional jets do too.

[benhurr]

Rams horn/head - Embraers do as do HS125's (Hawkers) - very comfortable - like riding a bike!

[tmmorris]

First time I tried RH on stick, LH on throttle was the Firefly I've mentioned elsewhere, on my checkout. Went fine until the first stall recovery... the look on the poor instructor's face was a picture as I shoved my right hand all the way forwards and my left hand just a bit, just as I used to do in the PA28... Just as well it's aerobatic, really.

Sorry, John...

Tim