USA Renting - Liability Insurance

[windy1]

Articles on Avweb and in Flyer strongly advise renters to take out "non-owner" insurance to cover 3rd pty liability (typically $1m per incident + $50000 per person) and property damage (=value of the rented aircraft).
Reasoning is that although the FBO/school insurance may (?) pay out on the claim, under the principle of subrogation, the Insurers will come after the pilot if he is liable. And we all know how US lawyers love to go after companies and people!
Cost is typically about $900 per year. In 2003, I was able to get a 3mths cover from Avemco on a pro-rata premium for a spell of flying, but such short term cover is no longer available from any of the three aviation insurers.
Hundreds of UK pilots go renting in USA but I don't recall this issue being much discussed on these fora before. Presumably that means everyone is relaxed about the risk, or I have misread the situation?

[slim_slag]

Was mentioned earlier this month :)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204940

Your cynical side might say you are more likely to be sued by an American lawyer once he finds out how much you are covered for.

[Keef]

I've never taken this out in the past, but plan to this year. The premium I was offered was more like $250 for the "recommended level" of cover.

[david viewing]

I think you have to be a bit careful about this. The type of cover discussed in the earlier thread seems to relate to personal accident and might also cover insurance excess ('deductibles') relating to an FBO's insurance cover on an aircraft that you rent in the US. But I don't think it covers your exposure to either the FBO if you damage his aircraft or your exposure to third parties if you crash on them or something. That's 'renters insurance' and it's a lot more expensive.

In my experience it is never clear what cover an FBO has anyway. I suspect some older aircraft don't have hull insurance at all. I suspect some (many) FBO's don't have cover in favour of the renter because some of them ask you to pay extra for it. Even if an aircraft is fully insured the FBO or his insurer might still choose to come after you. And of course if you damage it through some excluded action like landing on a gravel strip, or Sedona according to some operators, then the cover might not apply anyway.

Despite this I've never taken the renters insurance myself. I know and trust my FBO to be reasonable and know that he does have full hull insurance. I try as far as anyone can to avoid negligent acts, get agreement for unusal places and reckon in the limit I'd have to buy him a new plane. Frustratingly, he won't allow me to go to Baja California. Can't imagine why.

It's more difficult with the 3rd party liability. If I ran into an airliner the damages might be a lot more than the typical $1M mentioned (that's why even in the UK the MOD require £7M!). Generally the risk of crashing into people in the US is fairly small, comparable perhaps to tripping in a shopping mall and pushing someone down an escalator. I doubt that the FBO's insurance would cover me, though it might. It's a risk but so is life.

[slim_slag]

Frustratingly, he won't allow me to go to Baja California. Can't imagine why.

Probably worried it will get stolen.

[david viewing]

Probably worried it will get stolen.

Or the wheels from off of it, etcetera, etcetera. But I'd still like to go. I was within 20mi of it a couple of weeks ago!

[slim_slag]

There are owners who will let you go to Mexico, try asking around at Gibbs at Montgomery Field.

[david viewing]

There are owners who will let you go to Mexico, try asking around at Gibbs at Montgomery Field.

Thanks. I wonder if there any Brits who've actually done this? I imagine there could be room for excitement with US immigration!

[slim_slag]

US immigration are fine, they get all sorts and Brits aren't worth spending too much time on when there are bigger fish to fry. It's the customs guys you have to be careful of. Sometimes they are the same person. There is a procedure to follow returning into the US but it's well documented and just make sure you arrive when you say you will and don't get out of the plane until they tell you.

If you are serious then join http://www.bajabushpilots.com/

[windy1]

[QUOTE=slim_slag]Was mentioned earlier this month :)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=204940
Looked at that thread .Traffords policy is no help. I have one and spoke to them today. They refer to exclusion 3: no personal liability cover whilst in car, plane etc. Has to be that way as they could not possibly cover you for more (£2m) for a premium which is a fraction of the US insurers who only cover for max $1m. (owt for nowt principle)
As to whether the lawyers would really hound you; presume if they think you have any decent assets (UK house etc) then they would think it worth a go and just dealing with the legal correspondence wouldn't be much fun. Thinks - AOPA? Not the kind of culture which would say, nevermind, he's a Brit, he's only on holiday and he lives a long way away. This is the industry who will sue Cessna for megabucks for a "defective" 40 year old design when you forget the carb heat.
Thanks to all for their comments.

[B2N2]

Even though the flightschool or FBO is insured , they have a deductible usually between $2,500 to $10,000 depending on type of airplane.
The non owners insurance will cover the deductible.
http://www.alexanderaviation.com/AAA/

has very reasonable insurance rates, like $215/year.
Highly recommended.

[Paris Dakar]

windy1,

I posted a thread a couple of months ago on a similar subject but I can't find it, despite a trawl through the 'archives'?

I was hiring a C172 in Indio CA, and the FBO demanded 'non owners rental insurance' the figure I was quoted was approx $300 PA and this covered me for $10,000. As I only wanted the aircraft for a couple of hours (and this insurance in not available pro-rata) it was cheaper for me to take an FI with me - that was the only way to 'opt' out of the insurance payment.

[windy1]

Paris
That figure is about right for the liability element only. What puts up the cost a lot more is the hull insurance - see http://www.avemco.com/ for the rate tables.
Its a shame they don't do a short-term deal. The cost wouldn't look too bad when you consider the cheaper hourly hire rates rel. to UK.