FAA and JAA license harmonizing! (and type ratings)

[tigermagicjohn]

I have in a previous post explainer my situation, that I am 36, and want to start flying again, after PPL 15 years ago.

I have recieved some advice and done some research on this, and would like to know if somebody are informed about a few things with regards to certs.etc.

Now I would like to know how the future might look and what chances or odds to get jobs. (i know there are no guarantees, but there are ways to prepare oneself best possible.)

First I have read some places that FAA and JAA licenses will be harmonized, does anybody have any information of this, and what are the requirements to get reduced conversions costs and time?

If my attitude is I dont care where I get a job, as long as I can work, will I be able to get airline jobs with FAA certs only? (UK and Norwegian passport)

I have heard the main problem for FAA certs. is europe, while in other parts of the world the FAA certs. seems to be acceptable? Is this correct?

I have considerd schools like example Ari Ben where the pro program cost appro. $35000 (multi engine)
Additonal they sell blocks of multi engine time of $25000 for 300 hours, now is this useful? Compared to being able to instruct?

I would see myself doing a combination of both instucting on the J-1 visa and taking buying multi engine hours! This to get both experience and quality of my own training.
So after 2 years I would be looking to have around total time of 1200 - 1500 hours, where around 500 would be multiengine.

Since I am a newbie again, how does this look so far?

Because of my age I need to be able to get more experience faster, and I will not have time to wait for better times before I can be able to compete. Furthermore I dont believe getting a type rating alone will be a sollution, because for me this seems worthless unless you have flying time on the type.

So the only way I see forward is buying line check and FO exp. on Boeing 737 or Airbus, 500 hours is advertised at $30.000 + type rating approx.$20.000. (eagle jet)

So this totals to:
School : $35.000
Multi: $ 25.000
Type: $20.000
500 hrs: $30.000
-------------------
Total: $110.000 or approx. £62.000

This would probably set me up with a total time of approx. 2000 hours. 500 Multi and 500 as FO on 737 type rated.
First of will the multi engine 300 hours have any importance if making the type rating and line check?

Maybe it would be better just try to instruct and get Multi time this way instead.

Another question with this amount of hours will the JAA conversion be easier? Reduced?

What would be the job prospects with these amount of hours?

I know that it is frowned upon for pilots taking their own type ratings and hours etc. And I understand you guys have a valid point, however I am in a stage of my life where I dont have all the time in the world to build up hours over the next 8-10 years.
Another thing is that this is money I have worked hard to save up myself, and this has been my dream since young, but never thought I would be financial able to make this step.


I am taking a calculated risk on this, if anybody is prepared to spend £50.000 for a UK training, I would say the way I have calculated my estimates seems stronger and better to be able to get some of those rare jobs out there, but then again I might be wrong.

I know there is more work in europe, so the conversion might be required to JAA, so my main question then must be how expensive and complicated will this be with this amount of hours?

Or will it in near future be an acceptance of FAA and JAA certs.? Or this just utopia or a politics european flight schools are afraid to loose their business if this would happen!

Its a bit of a contradiction when the European schools sends their students to the USA do their flight training, seems for me already "a dead man walking" the european flight schools.

Alternatives for my above would be EFT, no block of multi time, but for combined ATPL JAA and FAA they cost $76000 with 1500 hours, at least half on multi engine.
Would make the total approx. $120.000 + + extras.

Also are there many companies "world wide" that hires FAA certified pilots? Not US based companines,because I assume being able to work there is impossible. Even if one school I checked said that if it comes a shortage of pilots in the US the next few years, getting a green card there will not be a problem.
But I dont know what the prospects for shortage in the US after 911, but then again I would not mind where I go working. As longs as it flyes!

[Dnathan]

Hi 'Tigermagicjohn'.
I thought your post was interesting and I guess, partly because nobody so far has taken the time to answer you maybe I could.

My own background for you to weigh the information I provide: I have been living/studying in the US for the past 15 months, though originally I am Danish. I am at the very end of my CFI course.
Firstly, regarding your age, I do not think 36 is too late at all. Especially not, when you already have your private license. If it is a FAA license, it never expires, so just get with a certified instructor and do your flight review, which in your case probably will be slightly more comprehensive.

I have a mate at my school who's in his forties. Both of us have planned to work as instructors for a while, but not just to build up hours - teaching is really so much more! Personally, I'm not in a rush to join the airliners, then again - I do have a few more 'flying years' ahead of me than you due to my age. Aviation today, especially in the US provides a lot more opportunities, than just 10 years ago, and it still expands. Joining the 'airliners' has always been considered the 'ultimate' for most pilots, but I think the picture is changing. My dream, for instance, would be to pilot a mid-size jet, unscheduled flying, reaching more destinations, cutting edge technology and so forth.

Now, I realize that you might have a different opinion, but what I'm trying to say is, that aviation today is so much more than just >airliners< - think about it!
FAA and JAA licenses harmonization sure sounds nice... Is it going to happen any time soon? Let me put it this way: When I first started in aviation 1½ years ago, I was told the FAA IR and JAA IR were soon to merge. It hasn't happened yet, and I haven't heard anything about it since. It is really a difficult question. If anyone would have a qualified answer, that would be the authorities - not common pilots, we just got rumors :)
With a good attitude, you can get far. This is a big part of professionalism. I just attended a FAA seminar last Wednesday, and they emphasized a lot on this. If you don't care where you are going to work, if you can work on a green card in the US, generally there are generally a lot more job opportunities here, than in Europe.

I can't (and won't) tell you which school will be the best for you. Personally, I'm thrilled with the one I'm attending now, but you should dedicate a week to travel around Florida and attend the different schools. Look up different schools on the Internet, choice a few and go visit them. Talk to instructors and students, check the aircraft and facilities, you know - get a good impression on what is going on.

Regarding prizing - don't let yourself in the dark by offers that seem to good to be true. Usually, schools attract students by a seemingly low total price, but really - it is calculated on the minimum time. For instance, a FAA private pilot license requires a min. of 40 hours total time - but in reality, most people use 70-80 hours. Instead, you should look at the rental price of the aircraft and the instructor fee. Enough said, I think I made my point.

Min time requirements for Airliners fluctuate with the availability and need of pilots, but two of our instructors both got hired with the last 4 months, both with approx. 1200TT, 4-500 hours multi time. Both got really good deals with paid hotel room, paid type training and a salary on top.
I don't know how it works in UK or Europe, but usually airliners here will hire you with a commercial pilot license. Then they train you on the type in a sim, and finally throw you in a cockpit with a really experienced captain. You don't get a type-rating on your license. When they decide to make you captain, you will get a little extra training+ATP (which in the FAA is both a written and a practical test), and this is when you get the actual type-rating. You don’t need ATP or TR as 1st officer.

Happy flying!

[B200Drvr]

Tigermagicjohn.
You pose alot of good questions, and as somebody who has been through what you are about to set off on, I will try and give you abit of advice/direction.
Firstly the school you mentioned happens to be the school I attended. I did the 200hr professional package, I had my private already and went there on a M1 visa for which they sent me the paperwork. This allowed me to instruct, for the remainder of 24 months after all my training. It took me 5 1/2 months to complete everything up to CFMEII as I had a good instructor, who was a product of the same course. I instructed for three months before being offered a job on a King-Air (another story and loophole) Most of the other guys that I was at the school with that where non US citizens stayed there for the full two years and left with 1500-2000 hrs, most of this was multi time.
So I dont think you need to budget for the extra multi time, what I would then look at after the completeion of your time there, is what you want to do next. At this level of experience I would look into doing a type rating on something that will get you employed. It is no use saying now that an A320 is a good idea, re-assess that closer to the time, things do change.
The line training is also another thing only you can decide on as you are older than alot of wannabe's.
It will get you closer to a job, but it is alot of money to spend with no job offer. However if airlines is where you want to go then that is the fastest way to end up there.
The multi time is important. It might not seem that way now, but you will never regret it, especially if you dont get straight into the airlines and need to go fly a taxi.
As for the FAA & JAR licenses ever becoming one or even closer together, not likely. But I have not been restricted by my FAA certificate, if anything it has been a huge bonus.However if you want to fly airliners in the UK you will have to do your JAR ATPL, there is no way around it.
My final bit of advice would be not to end up in to much debt, think everything through carefully as it can take years before you are earning airline wages.
Good luck.

[A320rider]

...and another one who will be in debt and with no job soon!!!

anyway, if it is what you want, go!!crack your $, and then airlines will tell you are too old or, have a nice FI job at 750$/month.