A320rider
23rd Jan 2006, 15:33
Hello Everyone,
First, English is not my first language; please excuse me for my mistakes.
I would like to warn you about this aviation training, many of my friends have not found any flying job even years after they have finished their training.
I estimate the number of unemployed pilots at 10’000 for Europe, in a good year, EU needs 2000-3000 new pilots (per year).View the number of new pilots coming on this market every year, rate of unemployment will stay the same or will increase in the future.
Just look at the number of student sitting for the ATPL exams in UK, 100 a month, maybe 150?
In France, by example, most airlines have filed bankrupt( unscrupulous people stole the company money). In Italy, Alitalia can be out anytime. I don’t speak about Spain and Portugal who have a higher rate of unemployed pilots. Germany and Austria are not better. The worse would be a terrorist attack like the 9/11.
Recently I have met 2 ex-pilots (furloughed). They have changed their profession and became police officers. They told me with a family and 2 kids, it was too hard and very expensive to continue in this aviation market.
In England, I have met a controller working in a tower on a small airfield .He told me after his license, he applied as a controller. They did not give him the choice. He was out of cash, and didn’t find any flying job. After 3 year training, he has now a well paid job.
In Germany, I know a radar controller. Same thing happen to him. After his training as a radar controller, he did his CPL, MCC, and after a few months looking for a job, went back in front of his screen. He was married, had debts to pay (for 10 years) and he was forced to give up aviation too. Now he is over 40years old, and with 200h, he knows nobody will call him…
I know a flight instructor, who worked for 4 years in a flight school. He made 700-800 US dollars/month, and after being married and 3000 hours in his logbook plus a baby, quit his flight instructor job and now works as a computer Technician.
I know a girl, was a flight instructor for a year. After her school filed bankrupt, she did not find an airline job or a new flight instructor job. She works now as a secretary for a hospital.
I know some other guys, who for the same reason (bad paid, no real future) quit their little aviation job. The majority of them have quit right after their commercial licenses. Some of them, got a job in aviation for 1-2 years as a flight instructor, and quit too.
Flight instructor jobs don’t pay very well, and airlines are not interested by single engine experience anyway.
On 10 friends or more I personally know, only one has got a job for a national airline.
After his training, he paid a company to work for free during 2 years(very rich and no kids), and then he paid a second type rating, and finally got hired. He told me he has paid over 250’000 euro with no job guaranty.
These are good examples of how bad the situation is: if you find a job, you don’t make enough money, if you do not find a job; you have to do something else. If you pay for a type rating, and pay to work, there is no guaranty you will be employed as it seems many of pilots are ready to pay to work.it is a vicious circle!
I am not telling you to give up, but I am telling you it would be better for you to secure a job before to invest a fortune in this aviation training.Many of us have sent 500-1000 CV with no positive answer. Sending CV is totally useless, believe me, it is much better to visit the company of your dream and talk to a HR’ guy.
What make me really laugh, is students telling me they have found schools’ advertisings with a logo from BA, or Air France, or whatever , and think, if they go in this school, they will secure him a job at BA.I do not talk about schools who says: ”interview guaranteed”, this is simply a farce.
Anyway, I do not think the situation will improve in the next 5 years, and if you have the money, go for it if this is what you are dreaming of. But please, don’t sell your house or your grand mother, and don’t think you will pay back your loan by getting an airline job after your training, or even after a flight instructor job (a flight instructor rating is very expensive).
I have called some airlines and asked them how many application they have received during year 2005. They told me between 3000-5000.One guy told me, he spends lot of time to select pilots and he was sorry how bad the situation is(he was himself an expilot) .He told me to secure a job before paying for a training.
Majority of people I know, have stopped dreaming, they have now to pay back their debts, so what is the point to start a training if it is to finish with a useless license, fully in debt and no “real”hours? Do you think airlines are interested by a pilot with no real jet experience? What they want is captains with over 500-1000 hours on the aircraft. And even with this, nothing is guaranteed .
About the 2-3 chaps on this forum, who will tell you they have found an airline job right after their CPL, good for them, but how many have failed? How much money are you ready to risk for a flying job?
People don’t like to read bad experience, but you have to know the truth of this real market.I am not trying to discourage you or to eliminate competition( I do not need, this market is already screwed since long time ago), but please, be very careful with your money, talk to your friends, to your parents, dont take any risk.Have a good “backup”, and be ready to do something else if you don’t find any employment.
good luck!
First, English is not my first language; please excuse me for my mistakes.
I would like to warn you about this aviation training, many of my friends have not found any flying job even years after they have finished their training.
I estimate the number of unemployed pilots at 10’000 for Europe, in a good year, EU needs 2000-3000 new pilots (per year).View the number of new pilots coming on this market every year, rate of unemployment will stay the same or will increase in the future.
Just look at the number of student sitting for the ATPL exams in UK, 100 a month, maybe 150?
In France, by example, most airlines have filed bankrupt( unscrupulous people stole the company money). In Italy, Alitalia can be out anytime. I don’t speak about Spain and Portugal who have a higher rate of unemployed pilots. Germany and Austria are not better. The worse would be a terrorist attack like the 9/11.
Recently I have met 2 ex-pilots (furloughed). They have changed their profession and became police officers. They told me with a family and 2 kids, it was too hard and very expensive to continue in this aviation market.
In England, I have met a controller working in a tower on a small airfield .He told me after his license, he applied as a controller. They did not give him the choice. He was out of cash, and didn’t find any flying job. After 3 year training, he has now a well paid job.
In Germany, I know a radar controller. Same thing happen to him. After his training as a radar controller, he did his CPL, MCC, and after a few months looking for a job, went back in front of his screen. He was married, had debts to pay (for 10 years) and he was forced to give up aviation too. Now he is over 40years old, and with 200h, he knows nobody will call him…
I know a flight instructor, who worked for 4 years in a flight school. He made 700-800 US dollars/month, and after being married and 3000 hours in his logbook plus a baby, quit his flight instructor job and now works as a computer Technician.
I know a girl, was a flight instructor for a year. After her school filed bankrupt, she did not find an airline job or a new flight instructor job. She works now as a secretary for a hospital.
I know some other guys, who for the same reason (bad paid, no real future) quit their little aviation job. The majority of them have quit right after their commercial licenses. Some of them, got a job in aviation for 1-2 years as a flight instructor, and quit too.
Flight instructor jobs don’t pay very well, and airlines are not interested by single engine experience anyway.
On 10 friends or more I personally know, only one has got a job for a national airline.
After his training, he paid a company to work for free during 2 years(very rich and no kids), and then he paid a second type rating, and finally got hired. He told me he has paid over 250’000 euro with no job guaranty.
These are good examples of how bad the situation is: if you find a job, you don’t make enough money, if you do not find a job; you have to do something else. If you pay for a type rating, and pay to work, there is no guaranty you will be employed as it seems many of pilots are ready to pay to work.it is a vicious circle!
I am not telling you to give up, but I am telling you it would be better for you to secure a job before to invest a fortune in this aviation training.Many of us have sent 500-1000 CV with no positive answer. Sending CV is totally useless, believe me, it is much better to visit the company of your dream and talk to a HR’ guy.
What make me really laugh, is students telling me they have found schools’ advertisings with a logo from BA, or Air France, or whatever , and think, if they go in this school, they will secure him a job at BA.I do not talk about schools who says: ”interview guaranteed”, this is simply a farce.
Anyway, I do not think the situation will improve in the next 5 years, and if you have the money, go for it if this is what you are dreaming of. But please, don’t sell your house or your grand mother, and don’t think you will pay back your loan by getting an airline job after your training, or even after a flight instructor job (a flight instructor rating is very expensive).
I have called some airlines and asked them how many application they have received during year 2005. They told me between 3000-5000.One guy told me, he spends lot of time to select pilots and he was sorry how bad the situation is(he was himself an expilot) .He told me to secure a job before paying for a training.
Majority of people I know, have stopped dreaming, they have now to pay back their debts, so what is the point to start a training if it is to finish with a useless license, fully in debt and no “real”hours? Do you think airlines are interested by a pilot with no real jet experience? What they want is captains with over 500-1000 hours on the aircraft. And even with this, nothing is guaranteed .
About the 2-3 chaps on this forum, who will tell you they have found an airline job right after their CPL, good for them, but how many have failed? How much money are you ready to risk for a flying job?
People don’t like to read bad experience, but you have to know the truth of this real market.I am not trying to discourage you or to eliminate competition( I do not need, this market is already screwed since long time ago), but please, be very careful with your money, talk to your friends, to your parents, dont take any risk.Have a good “backup”, and be ready to do something else if you don’t find any employment.
good luck!