Airlines Hiring Policies - Lasik Surgery

[matrix777]

Hi All,

Quick question that someone out there maybe able to throw some light on.

How do airlines feel about employing pilots who have had Lasik surgery?

Although the JAA allow candidates to have Lasik surgery who are within pre-operative limits. What is the view of main stream airlines towards candidates who have had Lasik surgery?

Thanks.
Matrix 777

[tigermagicjohn]

My question is are you obliged to inform them of this surgery, if the operation has been done in past, and you passed your class1 Medical.

As far as I have heard from surgeons this surgery can not be detected.
Class 1 medical gives you the pass anyway. Anybody know more of this?

[AlexEvans]

It can't be detected? This is news to me. I've asked several medical professionals about this and they all say that LASIK can often be detected because it leaves subtle scarring.

Will it not also go on your medical record?

[r304ndy]

I can tell all of you from experience that doctors CAN detect whether you have had lasik surgery due to the scarring left behind around your iris. That was the very reason I didn't get the trainee air traffic controller job with Eurocontrol.
Asian airlines like Cathay and Dragonair never used to consider those who have had lasik, but given the shortage of local pilot sources they have relaxed this policy.

[tigermagicjohn]

I am no expert, but I was told by my surgeon that this could normally not be detected. Now I have had Wavefront, I dont know if this is different.
I was told this could only be detected if they had special equipment, and he did not believe they would have this for the medical test. However I have not tried to check this out yet, so i am not sure.

[Scube3]

I am in a very similar situation... I had lasik about 2 years ago, I talk to my doctor and he said that the only way to detected is if they look at you with a microscope in the eye. I don't think they do that, so I guess is safe...but you never now!

Did anybody knows about somebody passing a caa medical or a airline medical without noticing the lasik surgery?

Scube.

[Scube3]

It's allowed in FAA. In JAA depends in the correction you needed before the lasik operation. In some airlines lasik still not allowed.

[Scube3]

Are you sure JAA examiners use a slint lamp? Somebody told me they don't. He got his done in Spain...

Scube.

[AlexEvans]

I can confirm that. Gatwick use a slit lamp for class 1 medical.

Personally, I don't understand the need for a pre-operative limit. Surely if your post operative results are within limits and are stable then all is well?

As someone on here once said, 'it's not like LASIK can fall off' like a pair of specs.

[ngkaka]

other than LASIK, I heard there is another technology, that can correct your eyesight, by wearing a "hard" contact lens every night when you sleep. (You don't need to wear it in day time) This can help to correct to normal vision during day time, by correcting the curvature of your lens with that "hard" contact lens you will be wearing at night.

Anyone know about it? Similar to LASIK, do you think airlines normally accept these kinds of eyesight correction, or would they detect it during medical check?

[mackey]

Hi all,

I had Lasik surgery in December 2001 and went on to pass the initial class 1 medical at Gatwick in April 2002. Mind you I made alot of enquiries with the Caa about the laser surgery because my prescription was -5.00 in both eyes, so when they said come and give us your money, I did, and 2 or so hours later they gave me the ok, but I had to go back one year later to have a check on my eyes to make sure everything was ok and then I got that piece of paper with "No restriction" written on it.

I have been to renew my class 1 medical since and I have had no problems at all, the doctor even said if I had not told him that I had had the surgery done, he would not have detected it. As for the Slit-lant examination, not had it done since the initial medical.

As for this overnight contact lens,I did look into this but it was just to much hassle and it was only temporary, if you did not wear them for a while your eyes would revert back to your original prescription, thats why I went for the Lasik.

But one word of advise, do lots of research and then make the decision.

I think as far as the airlines are concerned,(even though they conduct their own medical), as long as you have the class 1 medical with no restrictions on it, it won't be much of a problem.........but don't quote me on that!!

And if they ask just claim the 5th Ammedment and tell them nothing!!:ok:

M.

[hjuvam]

As far as i´m aware, after inquired several instances including scandinavian airline companies, this issue is a bit ambiguous. First of all, dont rely on your surgeon/doctor, his knowledge on this might be obsolete. Sure he might be the best in what he´s doing , but do not let him put you down if he is in doubt with your intentions. Secondly, most training schools are ok with lasik, as long as you´ve got the medical 1 successfully. Airlines, then again, go 50/50 with this. Some might have a problem with this, but they usually have training programs of their own, and thus reject any holder of "lasered" medical 1. But then again, some major ones, like SAS, have no problems at all with lasik, if everything goes by the book. However, one might need to consider the age restrictions, and how long the eyesight is likely to remain the same. If there´s a chance you might not be able to hold a Med.1 after 10years, it´s a slight risk for the company, especially if they provide a type rating in the contract. And especially if you are in your 30´s already.

I quess it´s all individually considered. In my case, the lasik surgery will take place on the 22th of March. I´m 25, trying to make it work one more time. Couldn´t be more thrilled. And scared. But hey, we all can be PPG-pilots! :}

[tigermagicjohn]

First of all I spoke to my surgeon for my lasik operation, I did it approx. 1 month ago, and so far fantastic improvement.

I was told that in my case the scars could hardly be seen, and the only reason he found them with the slint lamp was because he was aware of them.
Now the dilemma starts, because it might be that they dont see it, still there might be the chance that they see it, I would say 50/50 odds.

I finally spoke to my friend who is working for Cathay, and he recommended that I dont mention lasik to anybody, because this would only create problems for getting employment at many airlines. An airline with 2 applicants one with lasik and one without lasik, would most likely give preference to the one without lasik!
He had many friends with Cathay that had the lasik operation, but without informing the company of this, since this could be a disadvantage.

Now my personal opninon is that any limitations for lasik is ridiculous, in addition to the pre-op limitiations they demand. After operation I have 20/20 with both eyes, and I will not loose my lasik operation like glasses or lenses!

Also according to my friend, it seemed that in the USA the attitude to lasik is very much different, there pilots are actually encouraged to have lasik operation for their medical according to him. I also believe that the US are more relaxed on pre - op limitations. However going for the FAA license might be an obstacle to much, since it seems much work will be available in europe over the next few years.
Slightly sidestepping from the topic would be taking FAA license and fly commuter for Asian airlines, there are jobs there for low hour pilots according to my friends information.

Also I understood that they might be more strict in London medical then other european JAA medical test centers. So it leaves one with a problem to decide what to do, tell or not!

I think better try with not saying anything, and see how it works out, whats the worst that can happen? They refuse you and say you must bring you whole pre-op history?
They not going to ban you for life to get a medical?

[Scube3]

tigermagicjohn said:
I think better try with not saying anything, and see how it works out, whats the worst that can happen? They refuse you and say you must bring you whole pre-op history?
They not going to ban you for life to get a medical?

Are you sure??
I don't have a european medical, but probably in one of those forms they are going to ask you the magic question....
Did you ever had Lasik surgery or bla, bla, bla? What was your pre-op refractive surgery?
And you are going to lie and answer....NO.

That seems to me like a good reason to ban you for life in getting a medical, but...you never know.

Scube.

[tigermagicjohn]

Yes that I would like to know, do they ask you in your medical form application?
Also heard UK medical was more strict then other european medicals according to my friend when he studied in the UK for a short period.

[high voltage]

there can be other complications, like seeing halos at night around brightly lit objects with otherwise perfect results

[Eddie_Crane]

I have been enquiring with the UK CAA about refractive prescriptions and JAR Class 1 Medical.
I have noticed feedback to be much quicker and positive when it does not involve information about LASIK and the process of obtaining a Class 1.
I am slightly outside the initial eyesight requirements, however I have been in contact with them and they seem to be much more willing to consider me WITHOUT having had LASIK.
I have decided I will not go ahead with LASIK (after quite a long time considering it and pondering the pros and cons...).
There are loads of pilots out there with glasses and they've had no problems obtaining their Class 1 from the UK CAA. The specs vs. LASIK "falling off" would not make a really valid argument in their eyes (d'oh.. lol).
I second everybody else's opinion on LASIK, do a lot of research and do speak directly to the CAA about it, since their stance is made quite clear on available documents.
The FAA has a very forward-thinking position on this, and if and when the JAA/CAA follow a similar route then I might as well consider laser surgery.
Just my 2p worth...
C

[matrix777]

Thanks Everyone for taking the time to reply to the initial post on this somewhat grey subject matter. :ok:

[stefair]

Did not bother reading it all the way through so might have overlooked valuable info in one of the previous posts...

Whether refractive surgery is detected does not necessarily depend on your scars. If carried out by an experienced surgeon, post-operative scars are very difficult to detect. However, laser eye treatments both PRK and LASIK can reliably be detected by an apparatus known as TopoScan. Also as far as I know this is rather not one of the state-of-the-art equipment and any JAA AMC would probably be making regular use of it during their eye examination procedures. The cornea surface of a patient who has undergone refractive surgery looks pretty even. A professional should be able to distinguish it right away from a non-treated cornea.

About two decades ago, when laser eye treatment was in its childhood stages, some lucky pilots got through their medicals undetected. These days, however, it is very unlikely to get through a medical, if an applicant has had eye surgery!

Being a wannabe myself I have had a LASIK done about three years ago in Zurich, Switzerland at the IROC Institute (www.iroc.ch). They have great service, unbelievably bright and experienced surgeons, and a very comforting atmosphere. As a patient one does not get the feeling he/she has ended up in a money making factory… Would do it again any time. Although I almost cra***** myself during the actual procedure the results have been amazing. Despite a pretty strong astigmatism prior to surgery I have now perfect vision on both eyes. No complications after all.

Had my initial Class 1 two years ago at the AMC Cologne, Germany - no problems. Got issued with the license only a few months later. Quite pricy the whole thing though! Will be getting it revalidated for the second time this spring.

How airlines' positions are on eye laser surgery, don’t know. When collecting info before the surgery I have found that most operators do not care as long as the Class 1 is unrestricted. Unfortunately, some of the majors, i.e. Lufthansa Classic, stand pretty strong on refractive surgery and do not allow their pilots to be operated.

Best advice would probably be to inquire at the airlines directly to receive a credible answer!!!

Good luck to everyone!