Vectors to the ILS

[Lee Frost]

Hello all,

I hope you can offer me some help on this. On a vectored ILS approach, what are the legal requirements that should be satisifed by the controller?

I think I remember reading something during the ATPL exams about a requirement for at least 1nm on a closing heading for localiser capture, and then 2nm required before capture of the G/s.

If anyone is able to provide me with a reference for the point, I'd be very grateful.

Off to look at CAP 393. Thanks for your help,


LF

[chevvron]

Only an ICAO recommendation, not a legal requirement. Can be found in ICAO Doc 8168 Table III-21-1.

[Lee Frost]

Thank you Chevron,

Is there an internet site where I can view the PANS-OPS document?
Cheers,


LF

[JEP]

http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/

[prowler]

hi there, from ATC Side, (apart from having navaids such as ILS Consisting of Localiser & G/S & if any DME), normally from ATC side, we Vector a/c on a closing Heading of 30' degrees from rwy centreline, if its rwy 36, 360' degrees + or - 30 degrees, to capture Localiser, in some cases the 30' degrees capture can go as high as 45' degrees, but ll this depends on Local ATC Instructions. Now to Capture the G/S, it is normally a 3' degree glide, so 1nm for every 300ft. So to conclude, if at 1500ft amsl, u need 5nm + 2nm (=7nm) extra for the a/c to continue on the ILS.

hope this is enough for you to understand.
Cheers:ok:

[Lee Frost]

Thanks everyone for your help.

Especially JEP - great link, cheers. :)


LF

[Turn It Off]

Its also a legal requirment for a/c to establish on Final Approach Track (localiser) at no less than 5 NM.

TIO

[Chilli Monster]

Its also a legal requirment for a/c to establish on Final Approach Track (localiser) at no less than 5 NM.

Legal requirement - are you sure? Sounds more like an excerpt from a units MATS II than any of the regulatory material. Do you have a reference for that?

[Dr Esteban]

Its also a legal requirment for a/c to establish on Final Approach Track (localiser) at no less than 5 NM.

Don't know about that. Ever been to airports like CPH and AMS? "Short line-ups" are given frequently, where aircraft are descended to 1200'-1500', aiming for a less then a 5 mile final. Good fun.

Dr.

[funfly]

Bit of a tangent question - is there a level or height below which an aircraft cannot be vectored by ATC

[Chilli Monster]

Yes - MSA or whatever level is stipulated on the Radar Vectoring Chart (available in the AIP when applicable).

[flower]

Its also a legal requirement for a/c to establish on Final Approach Track (localiser) at no less than 5 NM.
TIO

Never heard of that one before either, have just checked MAT 1 and 2 can't find any reference to 5 miles

[foghorn]

Never heard of that one before either, have just checked MAT 1 and 2 can't find any reference to 5 miles

MATS 1 Section 3 10.4.2 Aircraft should be vectored to close the intermediate and final approach tracks not less than 5 miles from touchdown.

I believe it is changing with Amendment 68 to be established by 5 miles.

[flower]

The latest full edition I was given by CD ROM from NATS was edition 64, no such mention in that, just gone through the amendments and see it being changed from Edition 68 which changes at the end of this month.

In the good old days when we all got paper copy amendments it was so much easier to see any changes to procedures, incidentally the CD ROM was issued to us this month, pity that didn't have the very latest MATS part 1 amendment on it.

[DoobryDapping]

I agree with ‘Flower’, even inserting amendments to Part1, 2, AIP etc served as revision. Bring back paper!

[TATC]

of course you couls download it from the CAA website and print it out - or do as we do in my unit and photocopy the ammendment for insertion in our own copy.

[Exhaust Manifold]

For which country are you guys/gals speaking? I've been vectored many times on to an ILS where I intercept the GS and localiser at about the same point (south africa). Happy to do it especially when ATC is squeezing me in :ok:

[Turn It Off]

I cant remember where, or even how, but I read it somewhere. Maybe CAP709 when I did some work on that :\

It might be more specific to Precision approach aids, coz my SRAs are lucky to be on F.A.T. at termination range.


Just reread the above bits abouts Mats 1 - I thought I hadn't gone mad - Yet!!

[Dizzee Rascal]

Some of us still get the paper MATS pt1 ammendments!!