Jobs following training with CABAIR

[Akuji]

Hi there all!!

Just out of curiosity, are there any people on this forum who went to CABAIR to do an intergrated course??
If yes how long was it before you got a job?
Did they or do they give a lot of help in trying to get a job, such as OAT does?

Thanks

[Jinkster]

I know some people who were put forward from an integrated course to BA, BA Citiexpress and Flybe, I also know others who havent

I was modular so didnt stand a chance!

[wingbar]

I agree with the Jinkster, no chance for modular, - we didn't have the correct 'title' of training you see! :yuk:

WB

[sawotanao]

They do help the intergrated, depends how rich you are. Go to Oxford if your mega rich. :)

[Rotating Beacon]

Some of the bias towards integrated students tends to come from the airlines themselves. They ring up and specifically ask for these students. There is no easy way round this unfortunately. If an airline asks for 10 candidates for example they generally pick a mixture of modular and integrated students, on the basis of good exam results, or flight training or suitability for the airline concerned. I would think the system is the same at OAT and all the other FTOs. I did a modular course and was put forward with a mixture of other modular and integrated guys.

The only real suggestion i have is to try and work hard, keep your head down and make sure you get on with people. In my experience the people put forward have a good training record, turn up on time, are easy to get on with ( this doesn't mean you have to be a pushover!) and most importantly keep in touch with the FTO. With the best will in the world an FTO can't keep in touch with every ex-student, so make sure you show your face on occasions (not so much you p*** them off), update them with your cv ( they often send the most recent only) and make the people in admin your best friends. They often control the main diary of events and know when airline reps are coming, and with a bit of luck you can have your freshly printed cv on the right desk at the right time.

One last thing, i used to put on my cv that i had completed an approved course of training. This appeared to remove the problem of modular versus integrated sufficiently. I also never brought the issue up in interview as most of the people who read cvs and do the first stage of interviews work in HR and don't really understand the difference anyway.

[mesh]

At Cabair they have BA, BACE and Flybe who they put forward candidates to. No other Airlines! Of these you need to for BA get 85% or more average first time passes in exams and c or above in flight tests. I think I am right in saying that if you fail more than one flight test then it's a no! BACE work along the same margins and Flybe tend to look at who ever is put forward. As with all establishments of this type, if your face fits and you don't complain, play the grey man and achieve these results then you are put forward. Only integrated are put forward for BA mainline but both modular and integrated are put forward for the other two. Of these as far as I have seen the modular guys are on an even footing with the Integrated and have often gained a job with BACE and Flybe. Unfortunately if you dont achieve these marks, slip up on one to many flight tests, have a 2nd or 3rd attempt at the IR, don't pass all your exams first time then you whon't be put forward. In fact I know of a modular guy recently put forward to Eastern who got the job above some integrated guys, it's just what the Airline is looking for. On top of these academic reasons Cabair has it's favourites and it's not so favourites. If you want to go there and eat humble pie, not complain when the aircraft go tech every day, or when you can't get in the sim for foreign sponsored students then work hard and integrated or modular you should find yourself put forward. If you do tend to air your views and have an opinion that some of the management whon't like then be prepared not to get any help it's as simple as that. In my humble opinion if you rely on the FTO to get you an interview then you don't deserve it. If you say integrated are put forward at Cabair and Modular are not then you are wrong. I didn't get any help from Cabair after finishing as I didn't meet the BA criteria and did have some 'discussions' with the management but that's fine as far as I am concerned. To me it was better as I left I didn't waist time trying to get them to put me forward. Instead I approached the airlines and as a result am awaiting base training on a heavy Jet with some 'modular' guys! As a matter of interest though I know of two cases personally where the Cabair students were supposedly put forward by Cabair to one of there few Airlines and they were told that they weren't good enough. These said students then applied directly to this airline and both secured interviews on there results, funny that!

[mightymouse111]

Even though you do the same course, have the same instructors etc etc. Cabair still favour integrated students.
It is in their interests to make sure integrated pilots get the jobs, because they need to attract integrated students, i.e £50k upfront!!
It has nothing to do with first time passes or your ATPL grades.
There is a bloke their called Tim who is heavily biased towards Integrated and does not even consider recommending Modular, regardless of ability.

I think in the last year they have recommended 3 modular students(excludes ex-instructors) compared with absolutely loads of integrated.

They will always say that the recommendations are based on ability, but lets get real, Cabair are a business 'an integrated business flying school'!!

Integrated...1st go to Oxford
Modular (the training from the instructors is excellent) but don't expect anything else, in fact this can work against you because some airlines will only take recommended pilots from the big schools, therefore if you are not recommended they think that you are below average!, when this of course is totally untrue. Its about time the airlines adopted their own recruitment criteria instead of relying upon a bloke with a chip on his shoulder because he got booted out as an airline pilot!)

[nite flyer]

I heard about this guy Tim, anyone know why he got booted out. A friend of mine made a personal visit to Cabair, had a nice friendly chat and tour of the premises by Tim. Once he handed over the bucks and started the course he said that the office staff didn't give him any time, all the smiles had gone, they were far too busy

[mesh]

Don't think its fair to mention any names guys and I also think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. The person I as far as I'm aware is still at Cabair..as to his reasons for leaving the Airline Industry I'm not sure. Geting back to the original post I will say something further. Having left Cabair and completed a type rating you do get exposed to a lot of other pilots experiences and see how they were assisted if at all by FTO's. From what I have seen Oxford have by far the best connections and Jerez follow closely. Cabair don't even enter into the ball park. As an example, when I finished at Cabair I approached the 'Management' to look at self funding a type rating and what contacts they had with Gecat and Airlines such as Ryanair if I decided to go along that route. Not for the first time I was assured that they were as luck would have it due to see said airline next week and they would let me know. As expected the meetings never happened and no agreement was reached for Cabair to put forward candidates that could fund a type rating. Having spoken to Gecat and a number of other operations Oxford came out as the one that had actualy met with them, set up a sellection process that Airlines could trust and embarked on sending SSTR students to Gecat etc. These students then whent straight into the likes of BMI etc. Anyway, that's only my first hand experience hope it helps

[mightymouse111]

Tim is still at Cabair (unfortunately for all modular students), but he was 'apparently' booted out of an airline many years ago! So the rumour goes!

'Pressman' is a good example of their bias towards integrated. There are many many more like him!!

[moggiee]

I have some paragraph breaks you could borrow, if you like.

Once made more readable, your posts will have more impact.

[Jinkster]

Well done Mr Mesh.

I myself am thinking of sitting back in a 152 for a few hundred hours after trying every airline under the sun earning money that way...

I think its reasonable to say that names shouldnt be mentioned here, especially names of staff.

[mesh]

Moggie, get a life.

Jinkster, might know of a Paradropping job(un paid) if your interested. Let me know. Depends where you are.

Cheers

Mesh

[Bob Fleming]

it's def worth paying the extra for going to oxford. i have never heard of anyone getting into my current outfit from cabair, but loads from oxford.

[FlyingRat]

TS is still at Cabair. He does put forward Mod students as well as Int. A mod student recently got a job with Loganair over several Int students.

Quite how Cabair pick and choose who goes forward however is another mystery!!

Equally they become far less interested in you once you stop paying them £££!!!

[ltn and beyond]

It does not matter what school or course you have completed, it is down to YOU to ensure that your name is in the mind of employers. Sure if you have done well at your course you would hope to be put forward by your collage if a airline asks them for names, but your name should be there before they have to do this.

I completed a self sponsored 509 course had a interveiw within 2 months and started within 4 months, my collage did supply a reference but only after the airline asked about me through my contact with them.

YOU are investing in your future, YOU must sell your self.
This will never stop YOU must perform in the type rating ground schoool, YOU must perform in the sim, YOU must completed the line training. YOU must make a good name for yourself in you empolyment and the industry.!!!

See the trend here it is all down to YOU and your drive to succeed.

All that said do try and get help and contacts where ever you can regardless how lose those contacts may be and good luck !!:ok:

[mightymouse111]

Flying Rat, I have included the modular student at Loganair in the 3 modular recommendations made in the last 12+ months by Cabair.
When you look at their adverts in Flight which say things like 'we have placed over 50 students with airlines in the last 12 months' this should give you a scale of how biased they are.

But the main problem is not if you are integrated or Modular. Cabair basically do not have many contacts with the airlines. take out of he equation flybe (& the few Kuwaites) and they would be scrapping around. They are the second or third choice for ba and bacx. After that they are struggling.

Also agree with above posting, but if only life was that simply! (its great in theory!)

[flybyshark]

I think that figure also includes the flybe sponsored students and probably the Royal Brunei also.

I was there last year and can only think of 4-6 people that were placed through them other than on a scheme already agreed upon.

[ltn and beyond]

mightymouse, I never said it was easy. But it is "how it is"
for most people that i have sat next to in both seats at the sharp end of big shiny airliners !!!.

Only offering my opinion as how to get on, if your waiting for others to do it for you, regardless of what they may say it could be a long wait. In most airlines what is said toay is out of date tommorrow, schools by their nature in the industry can be the same !!!!!

[Send Clowns]

Jinkster

If going Cabair modular put you outside FlyBe and Citiexpress recruitment then you went to the wrong place! They take on people who went to other modular schools. Even BA will accept modular graduates on an equal basis, as far as I am aware (although like FlyBe used to they ask for integrated - various reasons have been put forward, from being years out of date to thinning out CVs).

[READY MESSAGE]

I did the Cabair Mod course a few years ago. There are only 3 that I know of out of the 17 ish people on the course who aren't working. Airlines such as Ryanair, FlyBe, Astreus, Eastern all took on chaps from my course. There were a number went instructing first, couple are still instructing and a couple are now flying corporate stuff.

As for TS getting 'booted out' of the airline trade, I think you will find he lost his medical. As any professional pilot knows, we are only as good as our last medical. Imagine how you'd feel if having spent all that money on your training to do the job that you really wanted to do, a doctor suddenly takes the whole thing away from you. Shame.

[Stpaul]

TS did lose his job. but the rumour I heard was that it was his own fault or stupidity that lost him his job. The medical story came about to cover up the truth!
I would not like to say how it happened to protect the man, after all its in his past and i'm sure that he learnt from it!

[Ennie]

I left Cabair in 2001 following an intergrated course, I was put forward for interviews with British European & Air 2000, at that time Cabair were very helpful with putting people forward, I hope it still does the same these days!

[skysoarer]

Would this 'Tim' have the initials 'T.S.' ?
I hadn't heard that he had been "booted out", as you put it !
Does anyone know if this is true, and why ?
And if he isn't there now, where has he gone ?
Boxcar.

Hogwash... Tim is at Cabair still, and he's a bl00dy nice bloke! I've known him for a good 8 years now. I'm actually there now doing an integrated course, and due to have the wretched I/R in less than two months after nailing all the ground exams first round.

As for the modular/integrated route... there was a chat by a BACX rep a few months back (quite a few now), and he honestly favoured Integrated (no real reason I cal recall). But, Cabair certainly recommends Integrated students more due to the records they keep on such students on their progress and persona. With the modular route, if you've trained elsewhere, they're not so clear on your progress and the records are not as thorough. That's how they seem to see it, although I know many modular peeps who are top-notch. One thing I don't understand is, if a student has done *all* their modular training at Cabair, why they can't then be recommended like an Integrated student?

One of the mysteries of aviation training that will never be solved. An integrated student is equally as employable as a modular student, but it *seems* to be the case that a modular student has more work to do securing that vital airline job. That's not to say that it's all held out on a plate for an Integrated, as it isn't!

Oh and they really need to fix the cabin heaters on the twins... it's absolutely rotten this time of year. *cold toes*

Sky

[Fish Out of Water]

It's all well and good slagging off TS, but the fact of the matter is you have to keep in his good books if you want to be put forward for a job by him afterwards! I think he's ok as a person - but he's the spin man for cabair, will tempt you in then when he has your money is not so fussed any more. Same will go for OATS people I'm sure.

When you finish, I think you have to try and create your own luck to a certain extent. Cabair may find you a job but you cannot rely on them. I did the CTC thing when I finished turning orange, and now I'm about to go red white and blue. TS came to me with a job offer when I was waiting for CTC (took 8 months in the hold pool, 1 year on from 911).

Nevertheless, have a couple of friends from the CAP509 who still haven't found a job, but on the contrary know a few people flying jets that were modular. And as for the Oxford argument, have a few friends from there that were tossed out by the ear when they finished there and forgotton about. So no real difference in FTO's!

Think getting the job depends on luck and judgement, with obviously good grades as pre-requisite. But don't go falling out a man who could find you a job when you finish (and by the way he did lose his medical!).

[Jinkster]

Hogwash... Tim is at Cabair still, and he's a bl00dy nice bloke! I've known him for a good 8 years now. I'm actually there now doing an integrated course, and due to have the wretched I/R in less than two months after nailing all the ground exams first round.
As for the modular/integrated route... there was a chat by a BACX rep a few months back (quite a few now), and he honestly favoured Integrated (no real reason I cal recall). But, Cabair certainly recommends Integrated students more due to the records they keep on such students on their progress and persona. With the modular route, if you've trained elsewhere, they're not so clear on your progress and the records are not as thorough. That's how they seem to see it, although I know many modular peeps who are top-notch. One thing I don't understand is, if a student has done *all* their modular training at Cabair, why they can't then be recommended like an Integrated student?
One of the mysteries of aviation training that will never be solved. An integrated student is equally as employable as a modular student, but it *seems* to be the case that a modular student has more work to do securing that vital airline job. That's not to say that it's all held out on a plate for an Integrated, as it isn't!
Oh and they really need to fix the cabin heaters on the twins... it's absolutely rotten this time of year. *cold toes*
Sky

RE: Those heaters, mine failed on my test!!! :ugh: Turned home and lived to die another day!

[Ennie]

Is G BGON still at Cabair?

It got me through my IR 5 years ago,
can't remember if the heater worked or not, enough heat was being generated from me as I flew round the hold at Cambridge!

[skysoarer]

Is G BGON still at Cabair?
It got me through my IR 5 years ago,
can't remember if the heater worked or not, enough heat was being generated from me as I flew round the hold at Cambridge!

Yep Bgon is still here! It's actually the only Cougar that isn't tech at the moment, to my knowledge... and it's on an I/R at this very moment.

Edit: An I/R that I can now say was an outright Pass, for the lucky soul! Nice day for it actually...

[Jinkster]

the welshman or the other bloke? (no names being mentioned!!)

Smiling Assasins were the knickname for both of them in my day!

[oldandskint]

" Even BA will accept modular graduates on an equal basis, as far as I am aware (although like FlyBe used to they ask for integrated - various reasons have been put forward, from being years out of date to thinning out CVs).

Nonsense......

BA will ONLY take integrated graduates on their SSP scheme. If you are Modular then look elsewhere. Under no circumstances will BA Mainline take modular students on their SSP programme. BACX will however.
The only way to get in to BA Mainline from a modular background is to fly for someone else and then apply through their direct entry process.

[PRNAV1]

Hogwash... Tim is at Cabair still, and he's a bl00dy nice bloke!
Yeah right! Tim is the biggest money grabbing t**sser i have ever met. his only concern is how he can fill his pockets with the money of willing wanabee airline pilots who are just trying to chase a dream at the cost of satisfying that old git. he doesn't give a damn! he's jealous and bitter at the fact he's not in their shoes and 9 times out of 10 is glad to see the back of you once you've got your ATPL and have paid up.
so don't give me "h's a nice bloke..."
He's a smug w**nker and i feel sorry for anyone who has to render his services to get started in this industry.

[skysoarer]

Yeah right! Tim is the biggest money grabbing etc etc etc ...

Well I hope you feel better for having written that... :}

He certainly didn't give up on a friend of mine who graduated at Cabair, and took just shy of two years to get a job (with Brymon in the end, now BACX).

We're all entitled to our own opinions eh? :ok: