XM607, Waddington's Warbird

[The Rocket]

While there has been an awful lot recently on Blackpool's Vulcan (XL391) being destroyed due to it's condition, Has anybody given any thought to what could be the RAF's most significant Vulcan?

As the UK has been lamenting the neglect of XL391, The aircraft that carried out the initial Black Buck bombings, and which held the longest ever bombing record for many years, has been left to corrode on a remote dispersal site at RAF Waddington for as many years as '391, but obviously get no press, because "The RAF are looking after that one"

Trouble is, we're not. At all.

The last time I saw 607, it was a rusty wreck, and this was only 6 months ago. Yes, Waddington move her aroAnd from time to time, but inside, she's rotting away, and outside, the corrosion is eating her up. All 4 jetpipes have rotted through, and most of her skin is pitted terribly.

I personally think that of all the Vulcans remaining, this is the one that should be preserved, if only because it is the one that has had a significant influence in all of our lives.

Should it really be left to degrade, out of public view on a dispersal pan at Waddington?

Does anybody think that we should at least bring her up to a respectable standard, and try to preserve the RAF's Flagship of the Falklands War?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Well it doesn't look quite as bad as XL391 did.

Clicky (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafwaddington/xm607.html)

[The Rocket]

You're quite right HS, on photo's it doesn't:hmm:
Truth is, if you are able to look at it, DO! It's obviously not yet in quite the same state as 391 is, or rather, was, but it is in a ridiculously bad state for one of our historic aircraft.

Stacker, if you could see if close up, and the corrosion on places like the trailing edges, Forward Fuselage, Main Legs and U/C bays where the planks of 2 by 4 have stored the moisture for the past 15 years, you may well be outraged also:mad:

Ignore the fact that the pictures on the website are a full 6 years old, and the aircraft has had 4 different resting places since then, your spot of Googling is obviously far more reliable than an officer who has physically seen an enormously beautiful chunk of heritage rot away before his very eyes.:suspect:

[50+Ray]

The 44(Rhodesia) Squadron information brought back many happy memories. My crew had the Zimbabwe Air Legion T shirts made in Omaha, and my daughter still wears Mine!

[BEagle]

Hi Ray - 'twas me who coined the term 'Zimbabwe Air Legion' for Terry Mitchell when he was on 44(Southern Rhodesia) Sqn - glad to hear the T-shirt is surviving!

The state of XM607 is disgraceful. But with a bankrupt fast jet centric air force, does anybody expect anything else?

'655 and '426 survive entirely due to voluntary effort and dedication. '559 will fly again, thanks to public contribution and national heritage grants.

Yet the RAF cannot afford to keep one historic airframe in static display condition? Making it a responibility of the various service engineering training schools would be my suggestion.

[CBA_caption]

559 will fly again

There are two Vulcan return to flight projects?:E

[FJJP]

I agree it is shameful the way this magnificent machine of war is being allowed to deteriorate to the point that soon the H&S world will demand its destruction.

Truth is, these days the bean counters hold sway, and to refurbish the airframe to a half decent standard is going to cost. That means budget holders will have to give up something towards the cost. And their attitude is bound to be 'why should they'?

There is little enough money to go round to do the primary job these days.

This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history. They will point to the massive increase in capability of modern aircraft and weapon systems requiring less assests, but what they have not taken into account is attrition. If I have 100 Spitfires and lose 5 to enemy ground action, that's 5% loss. If I only have 10 Harriers at Kandahar and the terrorists take out 5 in a raid on the airfield, that's 50%. It's not rocket science, and whilst 5 Spitfires could be built as replacements in a few weeks or months, 5 Harriers would take how long? - assuming that British Waste of Space still had the capability to build from scratch.

They say history has a habit of repeating itself - remember the 1930's...

[pr00ne]

FJJP,

"This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history"

Utter utter nonsense, you have no sense of history if you believe that to be the case.
The RAF does not have 10 Harriers it will have 70 odd upgraded GR9/9A's, so your Kandahar point is?

Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.

DAMM shame though if this Vulcan goes the way of the example at Blackpool, or even the Beverley at Hendon, and THAT was in the care of the RAF Museum!

[adrian mole]

I seem to remember I mentioned in here on a different topic two years ago about the fate of XL319 at the North East Air Museum at Sunderland. Even then it's condition was deteriorating due to lack of TLC....

[seand]

Quote "The RAF does not have 10 Harriers it will have 70 odd upgraded GR9/9A's"

Including the T birds yes they have 70 odd, whether they all get upgraded is an assumption.

There was a Vulcan at BAES Woodford 6-7 years ago, is it still there, what condition is it?

[pr00ne]

seand,

The contract with BAES is for 62 GR9/9A and 9 T12.

My main concern for the Vulcan at Woodford is what will happen to it when BAEs inevitably close the place. There is no guarantee that the MRA4 will be built there, though it is obviously the most likely choice, but after that? When they have finished converting the 9 production airframes what is there left for Woodford to do?

[Decisive Attitude]

Last time I was at Waddo there was also a Victor parked behind the Vulcan on display.

What happened to it? Scrapped?

[Tim McLelland]

I've already whined and bitched about the mis-treatment of XM607 many times.
You would think that as the holder of a record (the longest bombing mission in the history of aerial warfare) until a B-52 beat it a few years ago, the aircraft would be assured of a safe future. But this is Britain of course, so the aircraft just gets pushed around in the cold and wet, year after year.
The Victor that used to be next to 607 was destroyed, despite being one of the tanker aircraft which enabled XM607 to perform its historic mission. There was no reason for the Victor's destruction, other than a decision made by some fool at the MoD, that RAF bases should only have one "gate guard" (not that 607 has ever been anywhere near Waddington's gate). Consequently, the Victor had to go for scrap, along with lots of other aircraft around the country that were hurting nobody, thanks to some arseh*le pen-pusher who had nothing better to do.
XM607 is in a poor condition, but the paint application hides a multitude of sins. However, the paint scheme isn't great either - the mission markings on the nose (which were re-applied a few years ago) look nothing like the artwork that was originally applied in 1982 - you'd think that repainting markings would be simple enough, wouldn't you?
Of course XM607 also had the distinction of wearing "desert camouflage" on her undersides during a Red Flag at Nellis, and it was a well-known display aircraft for many years, fondly remembered for some hairy take-offs at Greenham Common's IAT, courtesy of Joe L'Estrange.
No matter how you look at it, 607 is an aircraft which should be in a museum or at least a hangar.
Why can't someone start a campaign to build a shed for it? We do have a National Lottery Heritage Fund for this kind of thing, after all?

[Navaleye]

"This government has decimated the Armed Forces to the lowest point ever in its history"

In living memory certainly. Less, aircraft, ships, tanks and CBLFs than at any point since WW2. If that's not decimation I don't know what is.

[Bob Viking]

Good rant.
Just one point though. Not sure how many Vulcans they have at Waddo (I'm not in the habit of taking tail numbers) but to suggest it is hidden away out of public view is not quite true.
I drove past Waddo barely 3 days ago on the A15 towards Coneheadsby and there was a Vulcan sat not 50 yards from the road. Or have I missed something?
BV:rolleyes:

[Fortyodd2]

FJJP,

Draw me ONE valid and credible parallel between the situation in the 1930's and today, go on, just one.

That the British Government of the 1930's was as short sighted, incompetent and as deaf as the one we have now.

Kind of like asking "What have the Romans ever done for us........................."

[FJJP]

prOOne

3.5K servicemen to Afghanistan soon. What we do if Argentina decided to have a better-thought-out go at the Falklands in the autumn? Go on, tell me how much of a task force we could put together - how many grey funnel line ships, what aircraft, what tankers and transports? How many troops, how to re-supply?

And Iran. Assume positive and true intelligence. GW decides to go for it and invites president bliar to support with tangible assets?

And another cod war?

I could go on; the lack of assets leaves us effectively toothless if we end up in an attrition situation. 70 Harriers sounds a lot, but take some out for major servicing, multiple dets, training, etc, and it doesn't leave many to fill the gaps when losses occur. In WW11 you could build a Spitfire in a couple of weeks, but how long to build a Harrier or Tonkka [assuming the means still exists to built one from scratch]?

And will someone please tell me where all the money went that was saved with the run-down of the Soviet block and the continued reduction in defence spending...

[Yeller_Gait]

BV,

You are right, XM607 is the only Vulcan at Waddington, and is parked in full view of the viewing area just off the A15. It has been there since at least the last airshow, or possibly even the airshow in 2003.

It is scandalous that the RAF, or even Waddington, cannot look after the aircraft.

Y_G

[STANDTO]

I would be able to tell you the full unexpurgated history of all the Vulcans if Rudolf would send me by bl**dy book back:) :)

[Tim McLelland]

You mean The Vulcan Story? nah, that Vulcan book is a load of old rubbish!
(actually the serials and disposals are pretty accurate, seen as I got the list direct from the manufacturer).

[The Rocket]

Cheers Bob,

We aim to please:ok:

The Vulcan has been moved around Waddington a fair bit over the last few years, but not in the sense of "Where would this look best", more in the sense of "Where can we hide this bag of s**t now"

It was parked by the Thompson Buildings on display for a long time, this is where it is pictured on the Waddington website. It was moved in 2002 to Alpha dispersal where it remained tucked in a corner for the year, being towed onto the waterside for the airshow. It was then moved to the GSE graveyard by the golf course and A15, overlooking Echo dispersal, and remained there until at least 6 months ago. There were talks afoot to place it by the 'spotters car park' as long as 4 years ago, but nothing came of this.

My main point is that the aircraft in its self is sadly deteriorating to a point where criminally, it will need to be disposed of in a few years. The oleos and jacks are rusting away nicely, and the cockpit is stuck closed. Even if the general public and Bob can look at it, while he travels to the UK's premier fighter base;) from the wrong side of a security fence, it is still in a terrible condition, and nothing is being done to preserve what I and doubtless many other people consider to be the most important Vulcan remaining today. As Tim has said, the aircraft should be in a hangar at the very least, and what an outstanding idea from BEagle, why not get the baby EngO's as part of their training to chip in, and return a fantastic part of our history to a respectable condition?

[Tim McLelland]

As I mentioned previously, I don't see why a fundraising effort couldn't be initiated to construct a suitable shed for 607. There's plenty of space in the WAVE on the other side of the A15, and it would make a great exhibition and visitor centre too (and be much less grubby than the old portacabin that they have on the car park at present!).
On the basis of earlier projects, I would imagine that the Lottery people would be happy to stump-up at least half of the cost, so all it needs is someone in the right place to actually do it. Look the the people at Bruntingthorpe who have succesfully set-about reconstructing Wattisham's QRA sheds there through their own fundraising efforts...
Perhaps the former Vulcan people on Pprune could approach Waddington's Station Commander and point-out what a shameful situation this is, and suggest that we start trying to raise some cash, before 607 ends-up like the one at Blackpool.

[The Rocket]

Tim,

I wholeheartedly agree, And I think it's about time actions rather than words happened in this instance, before another piece of our history is lost forever.

[Archimedes]

If something is to be done, perhaps Lord Garden (sometimes seen on these means) could be persuaded to raise the matter?

After all, unless my memory completely fails me, he is the only former Vulcan Squadron CO in parliament (although I don't know if he ever flew XM607).

[STANDTO]

TIM

I presume from the hint in your email either the name you use here, or the one on the jacket of the Vulcan Story isn't your real one?

The book I was referring I can't remember the name of or who it was by, it's that bl**dy long since I've seen it. It was a round up of the dispersal of all the remaining airframes around the world. I gave it to Rudolf to have a well known Vulcan pilot sign it. He assures me he hasn't since sold it on Ebay.

I note on p. 137 of the Vulcan Story, comment is made even then that 607 was the one that really should be inside, and was just being left to fend for itself.

Historically, this a/c is probably as important as a 617 Lanc. - and look how many of those are left.:sad:

[GeeRam]

TIM
Historically, this a/c is probably as important as a 617 Lanc. - and look how many of those are left.:sad:

Well there's a parallel there, in that Guy Gibson's actual Dams Raid Lancaster, ED932, continued in use after the war as part of the Scampton Station Flight, before being scrapped at Scampton without thought in July 1947:sad:

What wouldn't a museum give for that as an exhibit today....

Which makes me still wonder when deciding by which Vulcan was going to go to the RAF Museum......they picked XL318 over a Black Buck mission example and in particular XM607.....:(

[tonkatechie]

There was no reason for the Victor's destruction, other than a decision made by some fool at the MoD, that RAF bases should only have one "gate guard".
Without wishing to open a can of worms on someone's doorstep - how many bases does this actually apply too? Leuchars has an F3 and a Phantom on the gate, plus a Lightning at Tremblers and another Phantom round at the (Fighting) Cocks. Also, Marham has that plastic Tonka, plus a Victor outside SHQ. Are there any more examples of this duplicity? If so, it puts a precedent towards having more than one guard, at which point Waddo could get it's arse in gear and crack on with restoring this historically important aircraft. After all, wasn't the publishing of those History of the RAF books all about reminding the new kids in the service about our heritage? What better way than being able to see such an impressive bit of hardware in the flesh.

[frodo_monkey]

Coningsby has two as well - a blah-jet (Phantom) on the LH side as you drive in, and an F3 that looks pretty plasticky on the RH side just before the exit...

[Tim McLelland]

Well, to explain a little more fully, the "one gate guard" rule came and went rather swiftly. I never found-out what idiot introduced the rule, but almost as soon as it was imposed, it seemed to be forgotten-about again, and additional airframes began to re-appear at various stations. But of course by this time, airframes such as the Victor had long since been destroyed for no reason, other than the whim of some areh*le who had nothing better to do.
The disturbing thing is that there's no reason why another lunatic couldn't come along and repeat the saga all over again.
Standto, yes I was being sarcastic - The Vulcan Story was my book (I changed my surname for boring family reasons last year) and it did have a complete disposals list in it, and as far as I'm aware, only one minor mistake was found in it, so it's pretty accurate. The book was okay apart from the ghastly print quality in the reprinted edition.
I will of course include a new disposals list in my new Vulcan book, but that isn't scheduled to be publsihed until the end of 2007, in company with a similar book on the Hunter, and a rather spectacular book (or at least I hope it will be!) on the RAF!
In the meantime, you'll be able to amuse yourself with a new fortnightly partwork magazine on the RAF which is due to appear soon. I saw the dummy for the first issue and it looks like the usual load of garbage you might expect, so it should be good for a few laughs!

[STANDTO]

ah, but will it come with heirloom miniatures of historic a/c:ok: (usual price £6.99 ) first issue 99p, or maybe a 1/3 scale vulcan which you get a bit for every fortnight?

[Tim McLelland]

I dunno, but I suppose it's quite likely!
One of these days, someone will produce a magazine that I'd actually consider buying (I won't hold my breath though):)

[OCCWMF]

Oooo Oooo - not wanting to be left out - Colt has two as well. A shiny Jag and a Hurricane in front of SHQ.:p Not for long though:( :{

[Tim McLelland]

Aye, they'll doubtless get dumped unless someone rescues them.
Of course, the real champions of stupidity are the RAF Museum. Owners of the only surviving Vulcan B1, and what did they do? They left it oustide to rust and then announced that it would be uneconomical to repair. Now, unless I've completely misunderstood the concept of a museum, I thought the idea was to restore and preserve, not ignore and destroy?
But then they also cut-up one of only two surviving Beverley transports, replacing it with a plastic Spitfire and Hurricane. Hmm... I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by anything, when you look at Hendon's new extension, and the main exhibits are... a BF-109 and a P-51. Confused? I know I am!

[GeeRam]

Oooo Oooo - not wanting to be left out - Colt has two as well. A shiny Jag and a Hurricane in front of SHQ.:p Not for long though:( :{

That's a shiney Jag and a plastic replica Hurricane ;)

[Bob Viking]

It still looks the part though!
BV;)

[The Rocket]

Are you going to be moving that up to Coningsby with the rest of your museum pieces Bob?;)

[Liffy 1M]

As regards XL318 in the RAFM, it was earmarked for there when retired (having performed the last 617 Sq. Vulcan sortie, on 11 December 1981). It was transported to Hendon in sections and installed there in about February 1982, some months before the Falklands war and XM607's historic mission. Hence it is not really a question of its having been chosen over a more historically significant airframe.

[Liffy 1M]

My information comes from a very comprehensive article (more like a mini-book) by Paul Jackson in "Wings of Fame" Vol. 3. I imagine it is drawn from official sources but that's not to say there couldn't be an error. I would recommend this article strongly to anyone with an interest in the Vulcan.

[Tim McLelland]

If only there were any "official sources" to draw such information from!
Thankfully, Paul does know what he's talking about, and yes, the Hendon Vulcan saga essentially took place ahead of 607's retirement, which is why 318 is in Hendon, and 607 is parked on the A15.

But of course, explaining why the situation is as it is, doesn't necessarily imply that it's a good situation to be in. It doesn't make 607's future any more secure.

As I said previously, it needs someone (or a group) to get 607 under cover, with Lottery help or whatever else it takes. But the aircraft still belongs to Waddington, and I suspect that unless someone with influence (or at least someone who can successfully bend the ear of the Station Commander) decides to do something about it, then it seems certain that 607 will just languish at the roadside until it is declared unsafe, and ultimately scrapped.

[smarchitelli]

Hi Tim,

In re: to your Vulcan book, what mistakes/errors are you aware of?

Thanks.

Steve

Well, to explain a little more fully, the "one gate guard" rule came and went rather swiftly. I never found-out what idiot introduced the rule, but almost as soon as it was imposed, it seemed to be forgotten-about again, and additional airframes began to re-appear at various stations. But of course by this time, airframes such as the Victor had long since been destroyed for no reason, other than the whim of some areh*le who had nothing better to do.
The disturbing thing is that there's no reason why another lunatic couldn't come along and repeat the saga all over again.
Standto, yes I was being sarcastic - The Vulcan Story was my book (I changed my surname for boring family reasons last year) and it did have a complete disposals list in it, and as far as I'm aware, only one minor mistake was found in it, so it's pretty accurate. The book was okay apart from the ghastly print quality in the reprinted edition.
I will of course include a new disposals list in my new Vulcan book, but that isn't scheduled to be publsihed until the end of 2007, in company with a similar book on the Hunter, and a rather spectacular book (or at least I hope it will be!) on the RAF!
In the meantime, you'll be able to amuse yourself with a new fortnightly partwork magazine on the RAF which is due to appear soon. I saw the dummy for the first issue and it looks like the usual load of garbage you might expect, so it should be good for a few laughs!

[Tim McLelland]

No drastic mistakes, just some queries as to the unit allocations at various times for some aircraft (and until I start re-checking everything, I couldn't tell you which ones!).

The only other slight mistake was one aircraft which is listed as having 300 series engines when it had 200 series, or vice versa.

I'll go through everything again before the next book is completed so that everything's 100 percent correct next time (unless we introduce some completely new mistakes - which is what usually happens with most books of this nature!).

[The Rocket]

Tim,

Are you going to pop across to Waddo to get some recent pics of 607 for your book?

May possibly bring some attention to the cause if a respected historian was to ask some questions and request permission from the Staish, and people who may have some input into the situation, to photograph the aircraft in the "state" it's currently in?

Just a thought....

[Tim McLelland]

I've already taken a shot of 607 from the A15! There wouldn't be any point in making a special visit, as aerospace journalists/photographers are pretty lowly creatures as far as the RAF is concerned. The RAF do their best to accommodate our requests, but we certainly wouldn't command the attention of a Stn Commander!
The best I could do, would be to write directly to the Stn Cdr and ask what his views are on the subject, but it's pretty easy to guess what the response would be - he'd simply say that his personnel do their utmost to maintain the aircraft as best they can, given that they have no funds with which to support it.
The only way I can imagine anything good happening, would be if there's some ex-Vulcan people around who can collar the Stn Cdr socially and persuade him to allow some outsiders to get involved, and try to raise funds that way. Otherwise, I really can't see anything to be optimistic about, sadly.

[BEagle]

Let's see....

Next year will be the 25th anniversary of the bombing and ARM attacks on Stanley.

Perhaps a major TV channel would wish to make a documentary, particularly as '558 should be flying again by then. So the famous '607 would be in demand if a documentary was to be made - it is, I understand, the only survivor of the raids?

I wonder whether the Ch4 team who made the 'Bomber Pilot' series might be interested, perhaps I should suggest to them that they write to the Waddington Stn Cdr for access to '607 - which, no doubt, as an historic aircraft has been kept in suitable condition......

I'm sure I've still got their e-mail address....

[The Rocket]

Now that DOES sound like a plan BEags:ok:

[Tim McLelland]

Worth a try I guess - keep us posted if you do.

I should add that 607 certainly isn't the only surviving Black Buck aircraft however - there's a few still around, not least 597, the other "star" of the conflict:)

[GeeRam]

I should add that 607 certainly isn't the only surviving Black Buck aircraft however - there's a few still around, not least 597, the other "star" of the conflict:)

Yup '597, the double Shrike mission and Rio 'holiday flight' a/c is preserved at the Museum of Flight at East Forture.

The 2 other Black Buck 'reserve' a/c still survive as well, with '598 at Cosford and '612 at Norwich Aviation Museum.

[STANDTO]

"The only other slight mistake was one aircraft which is listed as having 300 series engines when it had 200 series, or vice versa.

I'll go through everything again before the next book is completed so that everything's 100 percent correct next time (unless we introduce some completely new mistakes - which is what usually happens with most books of this nature!)."

- Can I have a refund?:ok:

[Tim McLelland]

Refund? that implies that the publisher's have any money. Oh yeah, I forgot, they do have money, they just don't give any of it to their authors:)

[XV277]

Of course, the real champions of stupidity are the RAF Museum. .........................But then they also cut-up one of only two surviving Beverley transports, replacing it with a plastic Spitfire and Hurricane. Hmm... I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by anything, when you look at Hendon's new extension, and the main exhibits are... a BF-109 and a P-51. Confused? I know I am!


To be fair to the RAFM, they never had possession of the Beverley, it was just abandoned at Hendon by the RAF (I was told that there was some severe internal politics on that one).

Oh, you'll be glad to now the new exhibition will soon expanded by an IL-2......(Swapped for a Spitfire, possibly an F21)

[12 PSI]

I was at Woodford a few weeks ago and there's still a Vulcan there in front of the MRA4 factory. White and shabby paint scheme.

[Tim McLelland]

That's XM603, another aircraft that was supposedly going to fly again, back in those days when people really didn't have a clue how difficult/expensive such a proposition really is.
Despite the external condition, 603 has had lots of attention from the people who look after her (ex Avro employees who built her in the first place), but I suspect their initial enthusiasm and devotion has slipped, now that the future of the entire airfield looks pretty insecure. Not much hope of an "Avro Flight Centre" with shelter for 603, when "Avro" will probably me moving out before too long, and leaving the Vulcan behind:sad:

[XL391]

I would like to get involved with the preservation of '607, does anyone kn ow who to contact? I am expecting the brush off but its worth a go....:}

[foldingwings]

Hey, you Vulcan guys,

Why not take a leaf out of the Buccaneer book!

When the Bucc fleet folded in 1994, we formed an aircrew association and charged £100 to those who took out Life Membership. With that lump sum (well £6K of it) we bought a Bucc. For £2.5K more we transported it to a museum (the RAF Museum was not interested in it). We fettled it, purloined weapons (inc a 177) and other bits and it has been established at the museum now for 11 years. We still have money in the pot and are about to spend some of it on a complete(ish) refurbishment of the dear old bird.

Now, with more than 450 members (250 Lifers), we might even just have enough in the kitty for the last man standing to go out in an alcoholic frenzy when his time comes!

Try it, it cannot be too late and there appears to be enough enthusiasm here alone to get you started and I'm sure that the CO at Waddo might be well pleased to see the back of 607!

[foldingwings]

5 days and the thread has been allowed to drift to Page 3! So it will be OK for the lottery (a.n.other) to save 607 but not the guys who flew it! There's dedication!

[The Rocket]

The TVOC website now has webcams set up in the hangar at Bruntingthorpe, so you can watch 558 as it progresses.

The cameras have multiple views, but are only on between 8am - 5 pm

I have no vested interest in this, just thought it was relevant, and of interest to posters.

[Tim McLelland]

Well I'm certainly more than happy to give my support to any project to restore and shelter 607, but as an individual I can't do much to get things started. As I said, I think it will require an ex-Vulcan man to influence Waddington's Station Commander, and convince him that the aircraft is valuable.

[SirToppamHat]

There are 2 more-or-less empty hangars at Scampton!

STH

[Lancasterman]

Are there any empty hangars at Waddo that could house the vulcan?

[tonkatechie]

Are there any empty hangars at Waddo that could house the vulcan?
The 5 Sqn hanger seems to be missing any aircraft:E
Other than that, no there's nowhere under cover, unless you pop into Lincoln and buy a big gazebo from B&Q.....:(

[BEagle]

Something which surprised me on a recent visit to Waddington, was the almost total lack of Vulcan memorabilia to be seen.

An ex-Black Buck captain has recently told me why. It seems that, much as 61bit tried to hide their Vulcan heritage when they received their short-range low-payload 2-person bombers in the early '80s, some tit at Waddington announced that "This is now an Air Defence NimWACS base - all V-force items will be disposed of!". So countless years of Vulcan stuff were simply thrown out - my colleague managed to save some, but the rest was destroyed.

Appalling. During our visit we were supposed to have a group photo by an ex-23 Sqn Phantom. Which has absolutely no relevance to Waddo; 'twould have been doubly insulting for an ex-Firebird to be seen by one of the 'Crows' aircraft. Fortunately, the photo didn't happen - our I would have asked the hosts why it wasn't being taken in front of XM607!

The fast-jet centric RAF has yet to realise that it is the RAF's large ac and RW fleets which have primarily been on Ops continually for the last few decades at least. What do they ask for whenever Bliar has another little 'come as you are' war? Hercs, tankers, Nimrods, recce and helicopters. Do they ask for poseur fag-chariots? Err, no. Harriers, yes - because only they can operate from the RN's ships or tatty forward airstrips. Then a few pointy-heads in the MoD start wanting to play, so a handful of other things are sent along, together with a RAF News photographer.....

So b£oody well stump up and look after XM607, a famous aeroplane which played a hugely significant part in winning the South Atlantic conflict!!

[Brain Potter]

It seems that the project to get '558 in the air is consuming too big a chunk of the cash available for aircraft preservation. Even if we see a flying Vulcan again it will not last forever, meanwhile we are losing many historic large aircraft that should have been put inside - eg the BA Cosford tragedy.

[Lancasterman]

So there is a chance she could go under cover at Waddington then?:confused:

[tonkatechie]

So there is a chance she could go under cover at Waddington then?:confused:
No, sorry but there was a hint of sarcasm in my reply! The problem is that 5 Sqn are waiting to receive their ASTOR aircraft, so even if hell did freeze over and they allowed the Vulcan indoors, it would be for a very short time. There's no other hangerage at Waddo that isn't either being used or would fit an aircraft of that size. Apparantly the condition of the aircraft isn't exactly very good at the moment, and having spoken to one of the last people to move it, it wasn't doing to well when they put it next to the A15....I sympathise, particularly as I have fond memories of 558 at airshows when I was a kid, particularly rolling past 90 degrees of bank after take off, b:mad: y mind blowing sight! Much as it pains me to say, I think it's going to take a lot of very keen people a lot of time to get anything happening, by which time it may be too late.:(

[Aeronut]

How about a save a "Vulcan from the Ground" project!

[adrian mole]

Tonka
Just a small point and off-subject but it still irritates... A Hanger is what you hang clothes on and a Hangar is where you store Aircraft...
Biggest spelling mistake in Britain is on the Hangar Doors at South Cerney - Hangers 1,2 & 3 in 10 ft letters...

[BEagle]

But aren't those hangars used to store anything but aircraft?

[tonkatechie]

I humbly apologise to all those who I have offended, I would like to lay blame to my A Level English teacher, who, on numerous occasions, failed to notice that I was asleep. I'd get my coat, but someone's moved my hangar...:8

[adrian mole]

Beags

Do helicopters count?

Tonks

very decent of you old chap...

[Skunkerama]

a famous aeroplane which played a hugely significant part in winning the South Atlantic conflict!!
Not excactly the opinion held by many blokes that went down there and slogged their arses off to regain those islands. In fact I think you'd get some pretty snide and bitter comments as to the RAF's participation in the Falklands Conflict.

What is the RAF's view as to how succesfull the Blackbuck mission was? Would they have preferred access to a few B-52's?

[ExAvio]

So how many missions were there and which missions were unsucessful?

[Skunkerama]

Very interesting article Mike, thank you.

[Green Meat]

I know I've mentioned this snippet before, maybe even on this thread, but when I enquired of Maj Gen Julian Thompson as to the effect of the Vulcan missions, he replied that it had been a superb psychological device, and that the Argentinian conscripts were terrified every time they heard an aircraft in case it was the Vulcans coming back.

Incidentally, I was in the second to front row of the auditorium, and I could hear an awful lot of young green types muttering "Vulcan?", and "whassat then, chaps?" behind me.

Apologies to the good Maj Gen for the paraphrasing of your comments, should you happen to be reading this!

[Zoom]

The second biggest problem that the RAF faces with regard to storing and restoring old aircraft is keeping the airframes out of the cr*p weather we get for most of the year (June & July 2006 excepted!) until they are ready to deal with them properly. So has anyone on high ever considered some sort of arrangement with the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center (AMARC) at Davis-Monthan AFB, whereby selected airframes could be moth-balled there until somebody has decided on some positive course of action and then done it.

The biggest problem, as you already know, is the complete lack of interest by the powers-that-be, so I suppose this idea is a non-starter.

Yes, I know - and money.

[Tim McLelland]

Suppose you could mail 607 over to Arizona in a series of Jiffy Bags?
I think you said it all - the "Powers That Be" are simply disinterested in such things. That would be sad enough, but I'd still like to know what idiot imposed the rule that called for all stations to have just one gate guard, so that Waddington had to destroy the Black Buck Victor that was originally preserved with the Vulcan. What was the point of that? Was he trying to score some brownie points with his superiors?

[FJJP]

No money in the budget for upkeep.

That and it's an unestablished task - with overstretch leading to lack of manpower to do the job...

[allan907]

I think that I know the idiot that made the one gate guard decision. He was also party to some very strange base rationalisation ideas which he was pushing to his masters.

He was a sqn ldr at MOD and he was a pilot. Nuff said - no names, no pack drill.