TR or FI or... sit tight?

[VFE]

Hi folks and happy new year!

Well as someone who has now been qualified for nearly two years without a sniff of a job offer where the f*** do I go from here?? Matters have come to a head and I need to sort my career out.

Type rating? If so, what aircraft and how much?

Flying instructor? If so, where and how much?

Sit tight? How long for?

Any other options? Please don't say "jump in the river!"

Regards,

VFE.

[Lembrado]

Hey,

Need more info in order to give advice:

Are you still flying (keeping current)?
Total time?
Age?
Career aspirations?


L

[USE THE RUDDERS]

In the same boat and seriously considering a Type Rating even though I'm against the principle.

[VFE]

UTR,

Totally agree mate but what can we do? The situation now was not the case when I undertook training and money is now non existant. Can go back to HSBC with my begging bowl again (I imagine) but failing that I guess the prospect of aquiring more cash is an impossibility.

Lem,

320 hours total.

28 years old.

Working in a call centre - going nowhere fast!

Not flown since September 2004.

IR lapsed in June 2005.

Not good eh?! Do I really care? :ooh:

VFE.

[USE THE RUDDERS]

VFE,
Me 32 years old,
IR lasped June 2005
Last flew Oct 2004
MCC Nov 2005

Also working in call centre where I spend most of day ppruning.

[VFE]

UTR,

Now that's just damn spooky! :ooh:

Sucks dunnit!

VFE.

[hardcase]

if i was you i would get your IR current, any interviewers will not be impressed when they look at your licence/log-book....i am currently an FI with 960hrs TT....and am in the middle of a self-funded TR...:{

[benhurr]

First off I would say get current.

Then get an FI ticket at a reputable flying school and try getting a job there, maybe if you pick your FI course carefully then one could lead to the other. (I went to East Midlands Flying Instructor School - Alan Cooper).

Get hours. Over 500 is a start, over 700 is better.

I did all of the above and got offered my dream job - and guess what? I still had to pay for my TR - but I did get everything in writing.

VFE - you did all the crap stuff, made all of the difficult decisions etc. purely because you loved flying. Keep at it - "If you build it, they will come."

Get your IR back, useless without it. Get 50 hours in the last 6 months in your logbook, useless without it. Best way? instruct. sh*t at least you are flying and trust me it is fun.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

I think the TR idea is a none starter. It will cut down the companies that you can target. I would go for the FI ticket. You will build hours, learn how to fly, have a whale of a time, and when the call finally come, it is usually followed by a sim check........then you will be in current flying practice. I think most FIC Instructors do a brush up course prior to the FIC to get you up to speed. They certainly did at the school I used to work at.

[Lembrado]

VFE and UTR,


I would get out of your current jobs asap! I would suggest an operations department, be it airline or corporate.
The benefits are: that you both remain within aviation; do an interesting job thats relavant; make contacts; earn a reasonable salary. From this starting point you could then think about revalidating the IR and doing the FI rating to build the hours. Of course at the same time sending out those CVs.

I agree with D W-W that self-funding a type rating without a job offer and/or line training is a waste of your money.

Good luck with whatever you both decide to do.


L

[Craggenmore]

Rot in a call centre or fly as much as the weather can allow?

Do a FI course. £6k, it lasts a life time (you can teach as long as your medical allows) and you meet other people on the way who know other people who know other people who know other people (get the drift....) and the next thing you know is that you're in with a shout at interview time.

Also when it does come to interview time you have more to say about getting off your arse, trying to stay current as best you can and staying within the industry! Others tend to help those who try to help themselves. You'll also be surprised by certain OPs directors who were once instructors when they first started out. So who do you think they'll look at come interview time?

Or are you going to say, "Well I worked in a call centre while I let all my hard work, passion, ratings and dreams go to waste".

Read this link VFE. The market is supposed to be good this year so I would personally hold off the SSTR route for many reasons!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207188

:}

[mumbo]

Aged 39, working full time, wife three kids under 7 and no luck at landing that toehold in the industry. I did the FI rating a year after my IR and landed a part time instructors job working two days a week. I have found it good for my flying, good for my moral and good for my CV. (The wife sometimes needs convincing and the kids keep asking who that weird looking bloke is who they keep seeing wandering dazed and confused around the house at breakfast). FI pay is not good, but when you consider I have logged over 80 hours P1 in a few months and think of what that amount of flying experience would have cost out of my own pocket. (He shivers and his blood runs cold!!)
I also considered paying for a type rating as the FI course was £5500 and a turbo prop type rating would have only been a few thousand ponds more. I am happy about my choice and I'll keep pestering companies and net-working until some B*gg*r gives me an interview.

Mumbo.

[ali1]

VFE,

Do an FI rating, you will improve your flying skills and being an instructor will help you when it comes to type rating line training because your able to look at the whole picture etc.

Dont do a sstr!!!

If FI not possible instead of working in a call centre get a job as a dispatcher make contacts and do your FI p/t.

I qualified in apr03 worked in a bank call centre for 9 mths decided i needed to get back into aviation. Got a job as a dispatcher ( made loads of contacts etc) for 10mths while doing a p/t FI. Got offered a full time FI position with a good school. 6 months later RHS 737 for the company i was a dispatcher for!!

It will happen, get off ure a$%e and lose the 'do i reaaly care' attitude otherwise you'll never get a job

Good luck

Ali1

[CaptYanknBank]

VFE/Rudders
SSTR, no guaruntee of job, loads of money for the training org....:{
I know people who are paying for further hours after their rating.


FI, less outlay, better chance of work, especially if you suss the company out beforehand. Down point, poor money, often have to do it part-time and work elsewhere to pay the bills but your flying will improve out of sight as will your knowledge of aviation in general, not to mention the contacts you can make. After a suitable period you can go on to MEP FI, IRI etc, extremely rewarding and better paid.
Choose wisely.
CY&B :ok:

[Craggenmore]

I qualified in apr03 worked in a bank call centre for 9 mths decided i needed to get back into aviation. Got a job as a dispatcher ( made loads of contacts etc) for 10mths while doing a p/t FI. Got offered a full time FI position with a good school. 6 months later RHS 737 for the company i was a dispatcher for!!
Thats the kind of aviation break I like to hear and the way it should be; in my humble opinion. Well done mate!

[machlimter99]

Its amazing the numbers of people who sit back and think it will just happen. They dont even keep themselves current flying a C152 at the weekends??!!! I really believe that some people go into aviation just for a shinny jet and a nice uniform. Say no to those self funded TRs, they are no good and bad for the industry!!:\

[Pilot Pete]

Its amazing the numbers of people who sit back and think it will just happen. They dont even keep themselves current :\

So true. The training industry seems awash with dreamers who believe once they get the licence the rest will be plain sailing. Well, this thread and many, many previous ones should leave anyone in training, or contemplating training for a commercial licence in no doubt that the hard bit really starts the day your licence insert falls on the mat with the ink still wet.

I still can't understand people who have NO PLAN for what happens after the man from the CAA 'say yes'. The lucky few waltz straight into airline employment, and I mean LUCKY FEW. The rest have to revert to plan B, trouble being, like I said, so few have even contemplated a plan B, let alone organized one.

I do not wish to offend, merely to point out (yes, I know, with hindsight), how it could have been, if you had a plan B.

VFE 320 hours total.

Qualified at 26 years old. Set a cut-off of 3 months to get an airline job. Nothing arose.

Did FI rating, still at age 26.

Two years passes, having worked full time as an FI during two summers and ammassed 500hrs per year.

Now 28 years old, with over 1000hrs TT.

Last flew yesterday (a lovely clear, sunny winter day) and taught stalling to one of your students.

IR renewed in a sim at minimal cost June 2005.

Interview for BACX passed just before Christmas, sailed through the sim assessment due to up-to-date hand-flying skills and extra capacity and flight management gained through instructing and a couple of hours practice in a jet sim. Course start date Feb 1st 2006 for Dash-8 type rating (which I don't have to pay for).

Don't think that was possible? Think I am making it up? I know several pilots who have done just that, one of whom qualified when you did. He went 'freelance' as an FI, worked for 3 different schools at 3 different airfields, taught tail-dragger too, networked like hell, made contacts and joined Eastern after less than a year as an FI. He's currently doing his 737 type rating for Jet2, LESS than 2 years after he qualified. (Admittedly he is having to pay for that).

Try to look at it from an employers' point of view;

VFE, age is on your side, BUT YOU HAVE MADE YOURSELF UNEMPLOYABLE by letting your ratings lapse, by not being anything like current and by demonstrating a lack of commitment to aviation by doing this and working in a call centre. I know, I know, bills to pay and all that. Trouble is, and I hear this all the time, once you fall back into doing your old 'pre-flying' job, or take a full time 'bill-paying' job outside of aviation, you are on the slippery slope to wasting all that self investment.

Follow the advice of others here and get yourself a job in aviation; be it dispatching, ops, whatever, but just help yourself to network and make contacts. Get the licence current and don't let up with applications and phone calls. But above all else, realise that you have absolutely minimal experience and another hundred hours will make no difference. Another 500 will and I think doing an FI rating is the safest option for getting those hours. This is a good time of year to be visiting the flying schools and researching which ones will offer you employment once you do the FI rating with them...

As for self funded type ratings, well, I think you will be doing yourself no favours with such low hours and a 737 rating, it's just such a huge gamble and the airlines really don't view you that well unless you have come through one of the various 'schemes'.

Good luck, which comes to those who make it come their way....

PP

[VFE]

Thanks for all the replies folks.

Pilot Pete,

You hit the nail on the head mate and I cannot disagree with you at all. Looking back, after finishing my training I just needed a rest from it all which in hindsight was the worse thing to do. Without going into too much detail, my prorities slowly changed as the training went on but now I need to address the rot.

From where I sit now, the plan is to get the IR renewed and to do the FI course after careful research and networking.

Cheers for all the help (and the kick up the arse!). Hopefully I can turn things around.

Regards,

VFE.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

Yeah, I agree with the previous two posts. It amazes me that anyone can spend £50,000+ on qualifications that they are not using. Most people who come through the training system seem to think that they will immediatly get a great jet job. There seems to be no back up plan on what to do if that doesn't transpire.

I worked as an instructor in the US before I returned to the UK. It has really improved my flying skills and confidence. I've suggested doing the FI rating to a few people who are coming through the training system. The replies I seem to get tend to be an evasive, "Easyjet have dropped their minimums and Ryanair are recruiting."

I think you've made a good decision VFE. It's the right time of the year to be training for this rating and by Autumn you'll have enough hours to make you employable. I will be a great buzz when you get your first students and will remind you of why you got into this game in the first place.

[VFE]

Thanks for the advice FWF.

VFE.

[-8AS]

Do a FI rating. Don't spend 20k on a speculative type rating. Once you have passed the Type Rating, if you don't get a job - which is the most likely outcome, the Type Rating becomes irrelevant but the bank loan doesn't!!

A Flight Instructors Rating teaches you so much about flying and the industry as a whole. It also sends all the right signs to a future airline employer. In effect, as a Flight Instructor, you are the Commander of an aircraft responsible for the lives of others under all the pressures that professional flying delivers.

If you do your Flight Instructors rating at a good school, you can keep your logbook progressing, not just in hours but also experience. Take students on trips to Europe, get an Instrument Instructors rating - keep your own IR valid for free, get a mulit instructor rating, tail dragger etc. Do all this and the whole time someone is paying you! Thus, you are now a professional pilot, not someone working in a call centre with a very expensive hobby!!!

And boy does it show when an ex-instructor/banner towing pilot/parachute dropping pilot etc turns up for day one of Line Training on a Boeing!

What ever you do, don't give up and don't stop your logboog ticking over!

Good Luck!:ok: