View Full Version : JSF or Typhoon?
Soiled Glove
18th Jan 2006, 07:39
Interesting quote at the end of the story in one of the papers about the Eurofrighter and its collasped nosewheel at RAF Coningsby-
Two new aircraft carriers ordered by the Navy are due to carry 36 Typhoons each
Re-visiting an old story or have we finally got fed up with the lack of work/ technology sharing/delays that Uncle Sam is offering with the JSF and gone our own way?
Pontius Navigator
18th Jan 2006, 07:46
Interesting article in the Defence Management Journal - apart from how you will be able to buy trees etc at 15% discount. Andrew Brookes has written a must read article about Typhoon, the various batches, and its capabilities.
Most interestingly is the results of a simulation comparison. I think it was the SU35 that all the different jets were evaluated against.
The F35 had a kill ratio at 10:1 and at about $240m a pop so it should.
Next was Typhoon at 5:1. Not bad unless yout insurance policy is due for renewal.
Rafale (C?) came out better than evens.
If you fly anything else no insurance company would touch you, even FA18/15/16/14 etc. They were all less than evens.
Typhoon therefore looks both capable and good value for money.
jindabyne
18th Jan 2006, 08:38
PN
F35? Did you mean F22 Raptor?
Gainesy
18th Jan 2006, 10:21
Interesting quote at the end of the story in one of the papers
SG, it was the Sun.
SpinSpinSugar
18th Jan 2006, 10:27
Been a fair bit of coverage of this over the last couple of weeks; the MoD fuming in public about the American line on F35 technology sharing and having to leave planned ordnance on the shelf. Lots of mutterings about dusting off the navalised Typhoon "Plan B" which at least would be "ours" and offer commonality saves. Even with the protracted development cycle that would entail (might even be quicker than F35 delivery!).
The Mail was reporting this weekend that the F35 engine contract has gone to P&W rather than Rolls, which was supposed to be one of the sweetners for the UK's massive investment in the programme: another big success for the special relationship there then, if true.
On a related note, just got back from Oz, their national news last week was reporting a dramatically reduced F35 order due to the rapidly spiraling cost.
Cheers, SSS
reacher
18th Jan 2006, 10:37
SSS: any mroe specifics on the Oz order front?
See here. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17725359%255E601,00.html) Cuts predicated on an increase in costs based on a cut in orders from the USAF etc.
SSS, it´s not some much that the engine order has gone to P&W, as the rumour is the QDR budget cancels the production of the GE/RR F136 alternate engine. RR has a work share in both, but will lose a lot of work with the cancellation.
However, the team was awarded a $2.4 billion SDD contract for the F136 in August running up to 2013 covering the production and qualification of 14 engines (seven ground-test, six for flight test, plus a spare), so there is no immediate risk to the programme, plus there is a lot of talking going on at the PM/Bush level. The Congress has a reputation of putting things like this back in as well for their own local industry reasons. I wouldn´t panic yet.
antipodean alligator
18th Jan 2006, 11:00
Crazy to commit to a single jet airforce! Hopefully they'll get so costly that we'll have to invent a plan B for a smaller buy of JSF and a mixed fleet.
Pontius Navigator
18th Jan 2006, 15:08
Jindabyne, quite right F/A22. Memory aint what it used to be.
It was however the Su35. Typhoon ration was actually 4.5:1.
Soiled Glove
18th Jan 2006, 20:34
Gainsey,
Just remember that half the lies you read in the Sun aren't true! :confused:
I hear they might have been dusting off a few files from a few years ago up at Warton recently!
SG
Pontius Navigator
18th Jan 2006, 20:53
ORAC, is that one engine every 7 years? They must be bloody expensive to affect the balance sheet significantly for the next 100 years.
Doh! Amended to 2013. System Design & Development phase contract.
doubledolphins
19th Jan 2006, 22:13
Didn't know the Russians were selling any typhoons. Thought the Vanguards were enough for us.
Lyneham Lad
21st Jan 2006, 11:06
Bliar comes away empty-handed...........
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-01-21T043246Z_01_N20192376_RTRUKOC_0_UK-ARMS-BLAIR-BUSH.xml
:*
Washington_Irving
21st Jan 2006, 12:16
Jindabyne, quite right F/A22. Memory aint what it used to be.
It was however the Su35. Typhoon ration was actually 4.5:1.
It's now the F-22 again. Now that they got the programme through the QDR without any dents and scratches they've decided to stop pretending that it'd be any use as a mud mover.:hmm:
BEagle
21st Jan 2006, 12:51
"Bliar comes away empty-handed..........."
Not for the first time either.