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jimgriff
17th Jan 2006, 18:21
As some may know I have an unhealth interest in all things to do with ejection seats and kindred systems.
Part of my collection is the stuff and paraphinalia that goes with the pilot should he eject.
I am keen to find out what kind of medicinals are included with the current PSP's as in my collection from the near past (Mid 90's) there are first aid kits that contain the following tablets in various quantities:
Codeine Phosphate
Cyclizine
Diphenoxylate & Atropine
Paludrine
Proguanil
Sodium Chloride and Dextrose
Tetracycline
Pentazocine

What I would like to ask is:
1. What kind of training were aircrew given to use such medication?
2. What are they all for?
3. Having read some of the treads about spreading a little instant sunshine in the east, was this heady mix of chemicals ever intended for purposes other than medicinal? If you get my drift!:sad:
4. What does the average (combat) aircrew carry with them these days?

FakePilot
17th Jan 2006, 18:26
It's always a good party joke (with nerds) to tell everyone that those meat defrosting stands were originally designed for pilots to sit on after they ejected in an artic environment...

You'd be surprised how many people fall for it......

charliegolf
17th Jan 2006, 18:37
Jim

In the early 80s, I received zero trainig on the contents- just a list.

When later, an instructor on the airman aircrew school, there was a first aid input, but not linked to the contents of FAKs at all. It wasn't on the syllabus.

CSRO course - nothing there either.

CG

jimgriff
17th Jan 2006, 18:42
Seems a tad strange that there could be a scenario where one is sitting next to smoking hole in the ground, days from the nearest CSAR response and in no immediate enemy danger and looking at a list of pills that one hasn't the foggiest what they are for.:confused:

BEagle
17th Jan 2006, 18:46
We were never given any instruction on the purpose of the strange Latin named substances.

Whether they stopped you having the sh*ts, purified water, stopped wound infection or killed pain, we hadn't a clue.

Despite being asked several times for simple instructions to be included, the Rubber Queens of Mountbatten were more interested in trying to scare you about conduct after capture (The Big Six - Name, Rank, Number, Aircraft, Weapon, Target) than in giving any practical briefs on the medicinal contents of the PSP.

Onan the Clumsy
17th Jan 2006, 19:00
So you were expected to keep your prooning ID a secret then?

jimgriff
17th Jan 2006, 19:09
Now you really have lost me!!!

Can you make you'r cryptic comments a little clearer please Onan?:confused:

Pontius Navigator
17th Jan 2006, 19:11
Concur, we were told diddly squat.

One trip I sustained a bad cut on my hand opening a tin of sausages. Fortunately we had tomato sauce so the sausages were OK.

I opened my FAK and strapped up the cut there and then.

I got a bollocking from the medics for opening my 'drug kit' and had to account for all the contents. Oddly the most powerful drugs were missing. 'Must have fallen out through the flare shut sir, very strong suck.'

I should have used the aircraft kit they said.

jimgriff
17th Jan 2006, 19:20
Sorry Onan, Beagles response has just come up in front of yours and it all makes sense now!! Doh!:O

soddim
17th Jan 2006, 19:28
Way back, when I trained, the individual kit contained morphine. Now today's yoof would know exactly what to do with it, but we had not a clue.

Pontius Navigator
17th Jan 2006, 19:33
The writing has worn off on mine :)

BEagle
17th Jan 2006, 19:34
I went to Mountbatten (and later St Mawgan) God knows how many times. Leaened all about how to use the Ojibwa bird snare, make shelters in the jungles of Lincolnshire :rolleyes: , fired off dozens of miniflares and jungle rockets aimed at the refinery opposite, learned what ICATQ was, learned not to eat polar bear liver - but then it was always the same old trip in the pinnace, out into the ogsplosh in a SS or MS dinghy, wait for the helicopter, come back, quick rum and tea, then bog off back to base.

Why did no-one ever bother teaching us what all those weird Latin pills and potions were supposed to do? But I guess Duty of Care didn't matter back then?

Onan the Clumsy
17th Jan 2006, 19:53
jimgriff for a minute there I thought you'd taken maybe one seat ride too many :)

I can see how that would have been confusing though.

flipster
17th Jan 2006, 20:08
Its been a while and I am guessing a bit but I suggest:

Codeine Phosphate - medium stength pain killer
Cyclizine - anti-seasickness
Diphenoxylate & Atropine - Anti-sh!ts
Paludrine - anti malaria
Proguanil - another name for paludrine and vice versa
Sodium Chloride and Dextrose - rehydration a la 'dioralyte'
Tetracycline - anti-bacterial but more probably anti-malarial for choloriquine/paludrine resistant malaria
Pentazocine - strong pain-killer

pba_target
17th Jan 2006, 20:30
If it makes you chaps feel any better, having been through relatively recently, I didn't here a single word about the contents of the med kit.... I reckon they're full of cotton wool due to budget cuts, but no one wants to admit it....

>Black astras now pulling up<

BEagle
17th Jan 2006, 20:41
Astras? More defence cuts. Used to be black Omegas!

pba_target
17th Jan 2006, 21:41
my point exactly beags;) that and the medics probably can't handle the raw power of the omega....

flipster
17th Jan 2006, 21:53
No-one ever gave us instruction as to what the pills were all were for. However, someone did once tell me that there would be written dosage instructions inside the sealed FAK. However, as I have never opened a FAK in anger, I cannot verify this - anyone care to comment?

Onan the Clumsy
17th Jan 2006, 22:04
I have never opened a FAK in anger
Don't the kits have two locks, over six feet apart so that it takes two people with separate keys to open one?

flipster
17th Jan 2006, 22:15
Not much use in a PSP, then!

Pontius Navigator
18th Jan 2006, 07:41
Onan <<Don't the kits have two locks, over six feet apart so that it takes two people with separate keys to open one?>>

Sorry mate, that is the multi-seat one. They recognised the problem for the SSD and repacked the kit. The SS FAK has a spring at the bottom. When you rip open any part of the kit the spring ejects the contents not less than 6 feet.

If you are able to find the contents list you are then able to undertake that other essential of survival.







Time occupation to stop you worrying about the chopper that isn't coming. Or the bad guys who are.

diginagain
18th Jan 2006, 08:03
No-one ever gave us instruction as to what the pills were all were for. However, someone did once tell me that there would be written dosage instructions inside the sealed FAK. However, as I have never opened a FAK in anger, I cannot verify this - anyone care to comment?
All I can recall from the av. med. lessons was "don't eat them all at once". Having left Aunty Bettie's employ from a non-aviation post, I blagged all of my kit, including two little green foil pouches (FAK and the supplemental). Several years passed, eblag appeared, and so I went in search of surplus stuff for disposal. Rather than flog the FAKs, my curiosity led me to investigate their contents, and YES, there are written instructions within. Rest assured, the medications were handed over to a medical professional for disposal.

flipster
18th Jan 2006, 08:52
Digs

Thanks, at least there are instructions inside - but how many would have the time to read them in a survival situation? This is not a good way to have to learn elementary self-medication. Perhaps the St Mawgan guys should invite the doc over for a chat with studes during survival courses?

diginagain
18th Jan 2006, 08:58
What else are you going to read, your BINA's only good for bog-roll? We (as a course) tried to cajole our Spec Av Med to give us a bit of gen, he explained his reluctance was based on the worry that we'd break open the pack hunting for pain relief after a night on the lash. (Not us, never).

Yes, I agree, a little knowledge might be of benefit - you'll have to push St Mawgan on the issue.

flipster
18th Jan 2006, 09:06
"Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!"

diginagain
18th Jan 2006, 09:19
"Not me Chief, I'm Airframes!"
:)
It was more of a general 'you'll', not specifically 'you'll'.

Sashathehungry
18th Jan 2006, 09:20
Diphenoxylate & Atropine - Anti-sh!ts


Hmm not sure about Atropine being for anti diarrhoea - it's what's in the combo pens should you get a whiff of nerve nasty. Perhaps they represented a token effort at worrying what might happen should you bang out into a cloud of VX?

STH

diginagain
18th Jan 2006, 09:25
Atropine will bung you up. IIRC, one of its purposes as an autoject was to help you to maintain some semblence of dignity, since nerve agents will loosen your bowels pretty sharpish.

Lord Harry Flashman
23rd Jan 2006, 16:16
Having been on a course at St Mawgan Survive Evade Resist Extract (SERE) recently I can tell you that they do now give you 10-15 minutes on what is in the med pack and what its for. Unfortunately, I was standing at the back freezing to death at the time and missed most of it. I Don't think Codene is in it any more (Also a "constipator"). I know an Eye ointment is contained in it that also doubles up as a good fire lighter. :confused:

airborne_artist
23rd Jan 2006, 16:53
Diphenoxylate & Atropine - Anti-sh!ts = Lomotil, an over the counter anti-sh!ts medicine.

Atropine on its own is in the anti-nerve agent pack as it prevents/reduces mucous membrane secretions, and prevents pupils from constricting. Nerve agents induce very runny nose/tear ducts/salivation etc. and pupillary constriction. The massive amount of secretions produced in the bronchia can drown people quite quickly.

TimL
24th Jan 2006, 16:33
When I did the Winter Survival Course at Bad Kohlgrub in the 1970s, our FAK had two identical little bottles of pills, one containing Paludrine and the other water-sterilising tablets. Camped beside the raging River Ammer, downstream of both Unter- and Oberammmergau, we religiously added the water-purifying tablets to the water we took from the river. After three days, we were alarmed to discover that the water-purifying bottle was full, while the Paludrine bottle was empty. At least none of us (including a later CAS) got malaria!

jimgriff
24th Jan 2006, 19:05
So what does the kit consist of these days? Thats the full survival kit.
Thanks for the answers so far.

RS15
25th Jan 2006, 21:25
codine phosphate was removed some years ago as a pain killer that was also used for stopping ****s. it was replaced with loperamide hydochloride (imodium) which also bungs you up - but no good as a pain killer!! This was also not advertised and with instructions on the inside, the first we knew was on opening the FAK ( even SCSR were unaware of the change - thanks medics!!)