Leadership or Management?

[GoodView]

I had two heroes when I was growing-up. Both were ex-military, both had seen service in WW2. The first was a Colonel who helped plan the D Day landings, and the 1948 London Olympics. He subsequently started a school and was headmaster. The second was an Admiral who commanded Ark Royal and flew Swordfishes. He was part of the raid that sunk the Bismark. Their impressive credentials were not why they were my heroes. The reason I admired them so much was their staggering leadership qualities, their bearing, but most of all the compassion they showed towards those they came in contact with.
I attended both their funerals and was amazed by not only the amount of people who turned-up, but the range of person. The vast majority of attendees were men and women who had been under their command during the war, or who had worked for them after their service careers. The strength of feeling and love for these men was staggering. The stories were amazing. One ex-sailor even had 'I served with Gick' still tattoed on his arm!

I have recently left the RAF and never met any senior officer who compared to these two characters. True, gritty war produces leaders with tremendous qualities. A largely peacetime RAF has produced incompetent managers promoted on the basis of paperwork and opportunistic political positioning.

My question is this:

Should the RAF try to replace the current top brass with more traditional strong leaders, or perhaps invest in professional management training for those that climb the promotion ladder? In short, what would everyone prefer, character leadership or excellent management?

[Art Field]

Whilst it would be great to have a combination of the two the overriding preference at waterfront level must surely be for character leadership, character leadership up the line as well at the working level. A leader may have his eager beavers around him to sort out the management side of things but please do not promote them into the leader slot because once they are in power they tend to promote others in their image, the self perpetuating pillock system.

The influences of political correctness and "one mistake and your damned" are in danger of making it difficult for the character leader to compete against the "does all the right things" management specialist who will never inspire "I would follow him/her anywhere" loyalty.

[Pierre Argh]

Goodview... what makes you thing Leadership and Managment are mutually exclusive, in an ideal world you should be able to find both in the same person, as you do in some of the strongest managers in Civvy St?

[Maple 01]

The best boss I had in the mob was Gp Cpt (as was) Joan Hopkins - she knew how to lead, genuinely cared about the people under her and could inspire total loyalty.

She mineval/maxeval/simexed us into the ground and she wasn't above ripping heads off where necessary, but fought for her people like a lioness

I suspect she'd have no truck with modern man-management methods

[BEagle]

On a visit to Neatishead in the early '80s, I encountered Joan Hopkins entertaining some visiting Gp staff people in the OM. This was just after the 'no drinking at lunchtime in 11 Gp' edict had been crapped out from somewhere on high.

"Anyone fancy a beer?", she asked.

A bit of tooth-sucking and nervous fidgeting from the visitors as she handed them all a pint..

"Like it, do you?"

"Errm, well, err....."

"Good isn't it. Non-alcoholic though!"

She then went on to explain that she was more used to people being treated like adults and being trusted to make their own decisions, rather than having to toe the line of some despotic intstruction. A fine lady!

[adrian mole]

The best leader I met in my time in the Service was my Station Commander in El Adem 1968-70, the then Gp Capt Peter Terry. Remarkably he could recognise and name every person on the Station and he was a sincere approachable person and a guy we would follow anywhere. He went on I believe to become the CAS and I do remember him after retirement being shot in the face by the IRA - he did survive though.

The most crass example of bad decisions was during Operation Ablaut during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974. Every hercules loaded at Lyneham with a load for Dhekelia had to be unloaded at Akrotiri and backloaded to a 70 Sqn herc. This was because it was stated that only 70 Sqn crews had been trained to land at the short strip at Kingsfield. Even if this was true a plea that the crews should just take the Lyneham Hercs on the 10 minute flight to Dhekelia held no sway and for the duration everything was 'double handled'...

[maxburner]

I think the initial premise is a little harsh on some current top people in the RAF. I could name a few who were or are both good leaders and good managers, and the two qualities are not mutually exclusive!

Of course, some were awful at either or both, but by no means all.

[LFittNI]

I'll declare my interest--I'm an ex-SNCO who, having left the RAF has started, run and sold three successful businesses. I've picked up a degree and an MBA etc. along the way, am a director of several companies, and am therefore qualified to talk about both sides of the question (SNCO/commissioned and military/civil).

This is a hoary old question, one beloved of management journals. The short answer is that you need both, but in different ratios.

For the RAF, the SNCO's have the nous to do the practical management--allocate resources, admin. etc. Commissioned ranks supposedly provide the leadership. Deficiencies aplenty on both sides, but a commissioned rank needs (around)70% leadership and 30% management.

In civil (commercial) life the ratio is reversed--don't forget, the objective is to make money, not storm barricades.

I still maintain extensive service contacts and dealings, through one of my company's sales and support, and I have certainly noticed a couple of things over the past 25 years.

There are seemingly thousands of "management qualified" commissioned ranks, but I am frequently appalled at the lack of basic leadership skills. SNCO's appear to be carrying on as before, but there is (to me) a huge lack of leadership backbone in the service these days.

There is (imho) an adoption of the civil management/leadership ratio which cannot bode well.

[Flashdance9]

The RAF needs Leaders not Managers - Is'nt that the point of OASC & IOT?

But the RAF Leaders of today need to be managers too (cost effectiveness and all that...)
They need to be more like their contempories in business - Business Leaders / Entrepreneurs.

Did you know there are 3 misconceptions about LEADERSHIP;

1) that it's MILITARY
2) that it's MALE
3) that it's WESTERN

:confused:

[Kim Il Jong]

I vaguely remember a lecture at cranditz where it was argued that the leadership qualities required in war/peace were different.

Perhaps with the amount of op experience people are getting at the moment, we are well placed for the future, provided that the right people get promoted. A lot of current (changing I know) Stn Cdr and above Officers in the RAF have F**k All op experience AT THE COAL FACE.

Personally one of the areas that absolutely grips my sh*t is management speak. we are an ARMED FORCE for f**k sake. I have lost count of the times I have corrected people using the term 'line manager' "This is the Royal Air Force, we do not have line managers we have Flight Commanders."
And as for 'Investors in People' and 'equal Opportunities' What total Bollox, these are civvy initiatives for tring to quantify mangement/leadership qualities in a safe civvy environment and have no place in the armed forces.

In my (limited) experience as a leader people want simple clear instructions/orders. What and why. simple. Happy people knowing why they are doing what they are doing. Even if they don't agree, they know why.

[flipster]

If you want an example of a 'true' leader - look no further than Sir Ernest Shackleton. The epic that is the story of his crew's survival and recovery from Antarctica is absolutely inspirational - as was he, by all accounts.

Shackleton led by personal example with humour, optimism, ingenuity, strength and most importantly, compassion; he always put people first.

In my time in the RAF, I served under some good and some poor commanders. Mostly, they were managers, not leaders and only one boss ever really 'led' in the manner of Shackleton - sadly, he did not get promoted very far, as he was not favoured by the management 'hierarchy'.

I would commend anyone who aspires to command to read one of the many books about Sir Ernest and try to emulate his empathy with subordinates.

[lsh]

GoodView, you obviously never had the good fortune to work for Dick Johns or Al Waldron ("Uncle Al, the crewmans pal").
Whether judged as Officers, pilots or men they were truly outstanding.
I certainly had more good leaders than bad in 20 years.

[Pierre Argh]

A leader should be a manager, and a manager a leader. We aren't talking the stuff of David Brent here or management speak... for that isn't management; in the same way that true leadership never has been about wearing a badge and shouting a lot!!! Once upon a time, consideration for "your team" was a fundamental of leadership, the goal-posts may have changed slightly with harassment, Equal Ops etc etc issues... but that fundamental still applies.

[wishtobflying]

From http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au-24/au24-378.htm (this specific cut and paste, I'm sure it's quoted in lots of other places too):

"Finally, the leaders of tomorrow's Air Force must remember the difference between leadership and the mirror image that we have named management. British Field Marshal Lord Slim penned the following words on the realities of that difference. He said,

There is a difference between leadership and management. The leader and the men who follow him represent one of the oldest, most natural, and most effective of all human relationships. The manager and those he manages are a later product with neither so romantic nor so inspiring a history. Leadership is of the spirit, compounded of personality and vision. Its practice is an art. Management is of the mind, more a matter of accurate calculations, statistics, methods, timetables, and routine. Its practice is a science. Managers are necessary, Leaders are essential."

[Blacksheep]

I have recently left the RAF and never met any senior officer who compared to these two charactersIn short, what would everyone prefer, character leadership or excellent management? Both is a good combination.

Though he never got to fight in a proper war, ACM Sir Andrew Humphry did it for me.

Another good example I believe, was the Earl of Bandon.

[flipster]

W2bf
Thanks for the link to that excellent article - pertinent, indeed, and one with which I wholeheartedly concur. Sadly, in today's Services we have bred too many managers and not enough leaders; certainly in light blue.

[ORAC]

Going back to auntie Joan, does anyone else remember the TV programme about her? The BBC were doing a series about women in uniform and were looking at the Israelis, Brits etc, auntie Joan was the subject of the programme about the Brits. She was filmed running a simex, talked about QRA, the role she´d have in war etc.

They then asked her if she saw her role as a support role rather than a comabt role. She paused for a moment and then replied that she saw the role of the FC branch as being in direct support of the fighter force - just like the tanker force were.

You could hear the screams from Marham from the other end of the country. I don´t think they ever forgave her.......

[BEagle]

Why? That's what they were there for.

Wasn't that the programme where some interviewer asked her why she hadn't got married - to which she replied "Because I can't stand kids!".

Sir Andrew Humphrey did indeed stick up for the RAF - then got promptly handbagged by Whitehall and sneeringly referred to as a 'unelected public servant', as I recall?

[ORAC]

Wot, an FC, and a woman too boot, putting herself as the equivalent to aircrew (and mainly old V force aircrew as well). Lets just say it ruffled their egos a tad....

[Maple 01]

I've still got copies of Auntie Joan's TV shows (that's how much loyalty she inspired), and yes, she did say she disliked kids - might have been talking about F-4 mates though....

Young Maple can be seen on Rep 1 doing overlap with Staxton

[doubledolphins]

Sir Ernest Shackleton, Lieutenant RNR. Sent home by Captian Scott RN because of his Merchant Navy ways. Used his fists to discipline a stroppy Senior Rate. Would be court martialled today.

[flipster]

Your post says a lot about today's RN - one mistake and you are a failure - WRONG!
Luckily,our forefathers were better judges of character. Sadly,
Scott was very much a manager.

[RayDarr]

When Aunty Joan was CO of Neatishead, she instituted something called "Duty Family" if I remember rightly. She would often invite some of the younger singlies down to her Stn Cdr's house at Horesham St Faith for the weekend, and would cook breakfast for them on Sunday mornings. The image of being woken up by the Staish on Sunday morning with eggs on toast and coffee is one hard to forget, and earned her the love and respect of all those who knew her. (There were of course other reasons)
As mentioned previously, she could be a hard task master, and she ran a tight ship, but what a leader!!
Generally, the staff college thing turns out (in my humble opinion) plastic clones, and stifles most individualism. In war, we need people who think outside the box. (David Stirling, Wingate, Len Cheshire Walker RN, Don Bennett, etc) People such as these often do not get on in peace in any service.
While our leaders are (and always have been) good at small "bush wars" in any major conflict history shows the regular and reserves sacrifice themselves holding the ring until the "citizen armies" get into the fight and finally win through. I don't think we could do that these days as the world has changed. Therefore, forced to think that it is only a matter of time before dear old Tony drops us in to some situation that will earn us a very bloody nose..

[Pontius Navigator]

You can have invisible managers. Neddies in back rooms running spreadsheets and sliding beads on an abacus. You either have enough beans or you don't. A good manager ensures you also have the right flavour of beans in the right quantities.

Can you have invisible leaders?

I know these examples are from films, but leaders like Parks and Leigh-Mallory were seen at the front by the men that were doing the fighting. This was leadership by example.

Montgomery put himself about. So did Patton and Churchill.

Modern Air Officers also need to be out and about. Not just on their farewell trip round the bazaars but during their tours. Was Brian Burridge visible in the Gulf? He was certainly visible via the media.

Ken Hayr used to get out of the office and visit at least one of his sqns. It fell to him to take a lot of flak as a result of the Nott cuts and the Nimawacs fiasco. But get out he did and talk face-to-face. Great bloke, difficult job, but it worked.

One of the most important qualities of leadership is to be visible and LEAD