NATS experienced controller recruitment - any applicants? [Archive]

aluminium persuader

12th Jan 2006, 19:21

Nope!

I saw it as well - ad says they also would like to hear from experienced ATCOs. Thing is, there is no mention of it at all on the website quoted in the ad. Who slipped up there?!
Anyone know if they're recruiting for anywhere other than the ubiquitous PD?

:hmm:

Lock n' Load

13th Jan 2006, 08:50

Frankly, I'm rather glad to no longer be working for a company for which the recruiters can't tell the difference between a pressured environment and a "pressurised" one. Only pilots and divers work in the latter.

Highland Director

13th Jan 2006, 09:20

Prospective air traffic controllers should have the ability to work in a pressurised environment :confused:
Priceless! :D
Recruitment and HR....... Where would we be without them?

fat'n'grey

13th Jan 2006, 09:30

L'n'L and HD

But some ops rooms aircon/ventilation systems are designed so that the ops room (ATC, medical, chemical, research) have a slightly higher than ambient pressure so that in the event of a fire outside of the ops room smoke will not enter through doors, windows, suspended floors/ceilings etc.

So some ATCOs may indeed work in a pressurised environment!

But I'm sure HR were NOT alluding to this particular fact as rightly said!

Oh dear!

Banana Split

13th Jan 2006, 16:57

actually 261A I think they mean this...
Trainee and Experienced Air Traffic Controllers
Posted10 Jan 06
Close date8 Feb 06
LocationUK
PackagePost training salary potential up to £75k
Job DescriptionLEADING THE WORLD IN AIR TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT
Earn whilst you train: post training salary potential up to £75k
Dealing with traffic in the sky is a fast-paced, high-energy challenge - but one that we can teach you to do from scratch. Gaining a place at our very own College of Air Traffic Control will see you benefit from fully paid training, including access to our state-of-the-art, real-time simulation suite. And because Air Traffic Controllers operate on a shift basis, the working hours leave you plenty of room to pursue your own interests.
If you have a passion for aviation, enjoy problem solving and thrive in a high-energy environment, you could join a world leader in air traffic management. You will have to be between 18 and 29 with five GCSEs at Grade C or above (including Maths and English) and have studied to A-level or equivalent. If you are an experienced controller who has the permanent right to work in the UK we would also be interested in hearing from you.
We have courses starting soon and assessment dates are in February and March. For more details and to apply online, please visit our website.
Closing date: 27th January 2006.
NATS is committed to equal opportunities. We aim to reflect the diversity of society throughout our workforce.

aluminium persuader

13th Jan 2006, 22:15

That's the fella!

Still a dead end when you get to the website though. Doh!

:\

Highland Director

13th Jan 2006, 22:19

I'm glad it's not just me then. I had a look on the web-site too and could see nowt about vacancies for experienced ATCOs. :confused:

Bombay Bad Boy

17th Jan 2006, 09:29

It would be interesting to see how many of the NATS Bashing brigade (ie, the ones who are always first to have a pop at NATS on here) will apply !

Number2

17th Jan 2006, 14:15

I don't think it's NATS bashing but I fail to see why a qualified controller from another country would choose to subject themselves to some of the over-inflated egos of (some of) the instructors in Bournemouth. Some of them should be sent back to operational units to see if they can qualify again.

Lassie

17th Jan 2006, 15:14

Number2

Are we talking area or approach/aerodrome instructors?

My own personal experience at the college was a good one and i thank the instructors for passing on their knowledge and expertise. Keep up the good work, despite the new course structure making that increasingly difficult for you.

Lass

Bombay Bad Boy

17th Jan 2006, 16:59

Number 2 ..... Ouch, that was a bit below the belt. Its not the first time you've been college bashing either !
.
If your not aware, there are instructors who hold validations at units and its encouraged to have more of them. A bloody good idea! I had a valid Madrid Controller on my aerodrome course who thought it was ok to use "Land-Over the aircraft lined up on the threshold"! She went back to Madrid but maybe you'd prefer her at your unit?
.
Finally, talking about egos? I discarded my blue shirt 10 years ago, i'm not sure you have.
BBB

Number2

17th Jan 2006, 18:43

I little bit harsh. I discarded my blue shirt a long time ago but all I've seen since is a self-policing, self-obsessed group of people who are afraid of change and don't like to be questioned. Granted, there are some superb instructors at the College. I think the ROVI system is a superb idea (I believe I've said that before) but some of the dinosaurs at the College are really past their 'sell-by' date.

throw a dyce

17th Jan 2006, 19:56

TATC

18th Jan 2006, 15:09

EGPD is very short of staff.You won't get £75 K though,unlike our friends at the College of all Knowledge. In fact you will be the second lowest paid in Nats,and on the Airport side have to have Tower,Approach Procedural,and Approach Radar tickets.Nice part of the world if you like clean air and quality of life,but difficult to validate on the Airport side.Housing getting expensive as well.Maybe we should get more £ to attract staff,but that's a different forum:ouch:

Do you really need a procedural ticket for Aberdeen. NATS no longer run a full procedural course for its employees as it is not required at any of their units. Instead they run a short radar fail element in the Approach Radar Course at the college and then ( I believe) do a small unit specific procedural course as part of the Unit training plan, to enable controllers to work without radar. I suppose they might pay one of the other colleges to put their Aberdeen ATCO's through a procedural course.

throw a dyce

18th Jan 2006, 21:30

TATC,
Nats no longer runs a Procedural course,so it's done at unit level.However it's used all the time on night shifts,as there is only one controller on duty.
As the Airport is 24 hours,and radar cover is being requested from 2007,then we need extra staff.At the moment we are going the other way,so there is a fair chance anyone from outside will get Aberdeen.
Band 2 pay isn't going to help attract,or indeed retain staff.We need the same as Scottish,Band 4,to have a chance.Leaning against an open door I feel.Watch this space.

TATC

18th Jan 2006, 21:45

Its going to get even harder to attract ab initio trainees with the low starting pay after the new pay deal. It wont even be anywhere the average graduate pay. I earned more in a call centre before I joined NATS - and that was along time ago before the minimum wage arrived

Dances with Boffins

19th Jan 2006, 09:00

Number 2
You obviously haven't been to Hurn for a while. I'd advise staying away a bit longer.....

DwB:cool:

chevvron

19th Jan 2006, 09:49

Let's face it Throw a Dyce, several airports were shafted by the 'banding' deal, namely those providing a large amount of ATSOCA ie you, Cardiff, Farnborough etc. We'd hoped the latest pay deal would even things out a bit, but it's just made the situation worse.

niknak

21st Jan 2006, 18:44

I half thought about applying so I rang the number given and was put through to their "Experienced ATCO specialist", whatever one of those is.
I explained that I wasn't interested in area (not qualified) nor doing the centralised approach function from a centre (I'd only join to work at an airport), I asked which airports are short of experienced atco's and would I get a choice of where I could go.
She couldn't/wouldn't answer either question, so would I be better off approaching the ATC Manager at the particular airports?

Radar35

21st Jan 2006, 21:07

I agree with the last statement, about time they woke up and smelled the coffee. I know NATS have some of the best ATCO's but their management strategy does nothing for encouraging new people into the system.

I would like to know if they are looking for "outsiders" then what qualifications and what positions are they looking for, cos a standard add like this is asking for a shed load of applications, and also unfair for legitimate applicants.

elasticbanda

21st Jan 2006, 22:29

TATC,
Nats no longer runs a Procedural course,so it's done at unit level.However it's used all the time on night shifts,as there is only one controller on duty.

Is that actually legal??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No (old money) APC rating but regularly providing the service!!! What about going to a radar unit without a radar rating but "running a course at unit level!"

Gonzo

22nd Jan 2006, 02:16

Who says the ATCO's don't have a APC rating? The point was made that NATS don't provide the course at CATC to its students. Courses run 'at unit level' are inspected by the CAA to the same standard as CATC or any other ATC college.

throw a dyce

24th Jan 2006, 08:50

Elasticbanda,
The Approach procedural is part of the APS/RAD/SRA Rating Endorsement.If you had/have an Old money procedural rating,you still have to do the course in the sim,as it has specific rules to its use.
Its the similar with Offshore.That is a UK rating endorsement,but the college don't do that one,so it has to be done a unit level.
As Gonzo says you can't sneeze without SRG approval.
Chevvron,
Yes couldn't agree more.There also seems to be no way of changing the Banding.What happened here was a classic example.Oil price up,getting busy,result Downgraded.That happened twice,in the early 90's and on the last re-shuffle.Well the chickens may well be coming home to roost sooner than expected.

Shitsu_Tonka

24th Jan 2006, 11:08

What standard of living would GBP75K provide around the London area? Or would Swanwick be more likely?

Somehow I think the initial salary would be a fair bit less?

Tompano

24th Jan 2006, 14:27

Anyone here knows which twr`s are short of ATCO`s? I`,m a norwegian with 5 years experience working twr with radar.
I tried applying thru the nats web-site, but that turned out to be a dead-end... Also like to get some contact-details, as I figure it might be better to just contact the twr`s directly...

Cheers, t

side-saddled

7th Feb 2006, 12:00

Has anyone who's applied for the NATS Experienced ATCO through the web-site heard back from them yet?

Just wondering what the process will be.
Aptitude tests, inteviews etc, like the people with no experience or fast tracking to units?

Fly Through

7th Feb 2006, 19:21

Called HR yesterday and they still haven't finalised the process yet. Apparently a bigger response than expected. I also note they've updated the website to include reference to experienced controllers.

As for units, I've heard TC & Aberdeen with the odd place elsewhere.

Anybody anything else?

FT

Samish

7th Feb 2006, 23:24

What I heard from the HR people was that there would be no aptitude tests for experienced controllers but there would be some sort of evaluation process of which they did not have the details. They said that training requirements (college or directly to a unit) would be evaluated on a case by case basis depending on what experience you have.

chevvron

8th Feb 2006, 06:16

Normal procedure in the past was to attend Hurn for an 'assessment of prior competence' (APC) , but even this could be varied when we had a proper personnel dept. who knew what was needed. HR don't appear to have this knowledge.
Anyone wishing to apply would be better off approaching Manager ATS at a specific NATS ATSU first in my opinion.

Standard Noise

8th Feb 2006, 08:47

Rumour has it we'll have need of someone later this year to cover a retirement. Whether we get an experienced ATCO, however, remains to be seen.

Anybody out there with TWR/APC and a penchant for Scrumpy, walk this way......

Tompano

8th Feb 2006, 09:35

Standard Noise, how about a norwegian viking with TWR/ADI/RAD/OJT (and an old APP-rating) and 5 years experience? :E Any use for one of those at Bristol (assuming that`s where you work)

Best regards, t

Tompano

13th Feb 2006, 12:52

*bump*

Any news out there?
Fly Thru, have you heard anything more from HR?
Last week I mailed them all mye grades equivalent of the English GCSE and A levels exams, but I haven`t heard anything... Quite frustrating to be so keen on a job in a country but not getting any feedback..

Anyhow, if some of you have any news, would be nice to know.

Cheers, tom

Chilli Monster

13th Feb 2006, 13:39

Anybody out there with TWR/APC and a penchant for Scrumpy, walk this way......

I thought he was joining you later this month ;)

Fly Through

17th Feb 2006, 23:58

Any more news anyone?

side-saddled

18th Feb 2006, 16:14

Nope.

Rung HR to speak to the Experiened ATCO Recruitment Expert who apparently is always in the office but away from her desk, so I could find out what the next step might be and when.

She's on holiday......

Anyone else I spoke to didn't seem to know what I was talking about.

I think the advert was a figment of my imagination.:(

chevvron

18th Feb 2006, 17:38

sidesaddled: suggest you contact your nearest NATS Manager ATS and explain the situation.

side-saddled

27th Feb 2006, 18:06

Got through to NATS recruitment to ask about what will happen next and when.

I'm told that management have meetings every now and again and at these meetings they discuss whether people like me have to come for tests or go to units.

I asked when the next meeting might be and if I will hear anything soon.

No idea, they'll send an email to someone and it's just a waiting game.

Anyone else had a better response than that?

RNGrommits

27th Feb 2006, 19:26

I notice from the advert that:
"NATS is committed to equal opportunities. We aim to reflect the diversity of society throughout our workforce".

Does that mean they will be happy with experienced military ATCOs too? For £75k you might get killed in the stampede!

(I notice there has been a lot said about your new pay deals, but the complaining is nothing compared to the noise our inflation busting 3% annual rise (minus tax, 13.3% rise in our living quarters charges etc etc) has generated! Basra tower anyone, for 94p extra a day?)

ukatco_535

27th Feb 2006, 20:01

Basra tower anyone, for 94p extra a day

No thanks,

you can keep it Stu! :ok:

niknak

27th Feb 2006, 21:09

Now here's an indication as to the way NATS Hr think:

A friend of a mate, an ATCO with 18 years experience and all the ratings (except area), emailed his application and was told that he wouldn't be considered because his eyesight didn't meet current CAA Class one medical standards.
The person involved had renewed his class one certificate at Gatwick in Dec 05, and whilst he does wear specatacles his corrected eyesight exceeds CAA requirements by some way.

When he told HR the above, they asked him to email them with the "nature of his complaint" as they couldn't, perhaps understandably, discuss it over the telephone.
That was 6 weeks ago and he's heard nothing.:rolleyes:

pukeko

28th Feb 2006, 06:00

They told a friend of mine that only ATCOs with right of residence in the UK could be considered. That rules out a lot of interested ATCOs straight away!

ukatco_535

28th Feb 2006, 08:25

Niknak

NATS are a good company to work for insomuch they are highly involved in developing new systems etc etc. The coalface workers are also, great to work alongside.

Unfortunately departments such as HR and recruiting let the side down. Maybe Mr Barron should address these issues as part of his business plan - they are often the first contact people have with the company and they must make people think that we are a bunch of muppets.

mhk77

1st Mar 2006, 23:18

Unfortunately departments such as HR and recruiting let the side down.

Too true! Have any other UK controllers who have applied from the outside, been invited to attend selection tests.................?!?!? :confused: :confused: :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Samish

2nd Mar 2006, 01:10

I was told I would not have to do the initial selection tests. However, NATS subsequently emailed me, inviting me to attend an ab initio selection day. When I queried them on this, they said that there had been a mix up in the system but to be patient because my file had been forwarded to a manager for their review. They were vague on when I would be receiving any further details.

Rapunzel

4th Mar 2006, 13:04

I saw the ad and I'm keen to work in the UK but because I don't have the right to "live and work in the UK" (but would if the company looked into a work permit for me) they said no straight away. Apparently NATS "choose" not to recognise my licence.
Do I have other options? I've worked for 4 years and hold ADV/ADI and OJT ratings.

foghorn

4th Mar 2006, 17:15

Do I have other options?

Do you have a parent or grandparent born in Britain (or Rep. of Ireland before 1922)? If so you can get an ancestry visa which allows you work rights without a sponsoring employer. That would get you over the first hurdle.

dan saaf

29th Mar 2006, 11:28

Has anyone heard ANYTHING back from NATS yet regarding interviews/tests for these positions......... or is it just me they've forgotten about?!?!

Tompano

29th Mar 2006, 13:54

dan saaf

Talked to NATS a week or so ago. They hadn`t forgotten about me. My application is apparently still under consideration and they would hopefully get back to me sometime during april...
If in doubt, just call them and ask.

Regards
tom

danceswithsheep

30th Mar 2006, 09:28

Just to bend the thread a little.....................Procedural control is used for planning on every sector in Scottish airspace, even more so, on the Islands sectors(West Coast, Tay and Moray, the only way to deal with non approach airfields is procedural releases and clearances.
The most difficult thing to teach is procedural due to no college course, but we manage....kind of!!!!!!!!

Standard Noise

30th Mar 2006, 14:39

Do you have a parent or grandparent born in Britain (or Rep. of Ireland before 1922)? If so you can get an ancestry visa which allows you work rights without a sponsoring employer. That would get you over the first hurdle.

Even if an ancestor were born in the Rep of Ireland after 1922, you could get an Irish passport and be considered. Plenty of my southern friends work for NATS without having a British passport.

foghorn

31st Mar 2006, 16:55

Even if an ancestor were born in the Rep of Ireland after 1922, you could get an Irish passport and be considered. Plenty of my southern friends work for NATS without having a British passport.

True. I was thinking UK only. In fact if you can work your way into obtaining a passport of any EU country, then you're in.

ProcATCO

5th Apr 2006, 14:43

I have tried to apply via the website, but I got put off by the sheer size of the job! As an "experienced controller", surely the best way would be to have a seperate page where you could just input your CAA reference number and then they could examine your record, and then email back with any further questions and/or advice!

Too simple perhaps?!!!!

:ok: :rolleyes:

PPRuNe Radar

5th Apr 2006, 17:40

ProcATCO

Not defending the website or application process in any way but NATS have no right to obtain data on individuals from the CAA, as it will be covered by the Data Protection Act.

Of course, you are entitled to ask the CAA for the information it holds on you yourself (for a fee), and then could forward this to NATS if you chose to do so ?? :ok:

FinalVectors

5th Apr 2006, 21:22

Hi!
I applied too, and now...after allmost 1/2 year...HR..department found out I was not a trainee, but already a controller...:}
So waiting for some more answer.
Regarding not UK controllers, that shouldn't be any problem as long as you are from within EU/Schengen countries (like me..from Norway). They can't refuse people from that area to apply.
Anyone from London TC here? If so..can you PM me?

Final Vectors
Oslo APP

yonash

10th Apr 2006, 08:02

Hi!
I applied too, and now...after allmost 1/2 year...HR..department found out I was not a trainee, but already a controller...:}
So waiting for some more answer.

Hmm, do I know the situation, don't I ? :)

Geez, and I was to be the one with mess :D

FinalVectors

10th Apr 2006, 12:38

Hmm, do I know the situation, don't I ? :)
Geez, and I was to be the one with mess :D
yonash...
Not only did it take 1/2 year...but they been sending me a lot of mails (the same one every time..asking for my eye prescription.) And all the time I did write them back, that I already have a medical approved with my glasses for 10 years now. Really not impressed by the tempo of NATS HR :\
So now I'm just curious if I will get the same mail again..when they wrote me they finally discovered I am a controller :rolleyes:

Number2

10th Apr 2006, 16:27

FinalVectors

I wouldn't get so snotty about the eye presciption scenario. The CAA regulations concerning the use of glasses/contacts is a lot stricter than other places I know. You may have a medical but they have to confirm that it meets the same requirements. That being said, if you have a CAA medical, ignore everything after FinalVectors!

You didn't expect HR to hurry themselves did you?!

Striker

30th Aug 2006, 16:33

Just wondering if anybody had heard anything? I applied online in Jan, and all I kept getting was automatic responses offering dates for ab-initio testing. I e-mailed HR and was told to ignore these, and that I would be contacted outside the normal process.

By 28th August I'd still had no contact 'outside the normal process' so I finally decided that NATS HR didn't give a toss that I spent a great deal of time and effort filling in my application. I told them to withdraw my application with immediate affect.

All I got was a one line e-mail, "your application has been withdrawn". No explanation. No apology. If this is typical of NATS then I'm glad I don't work for them.

As it happens, in July things turned around where I am, I got a promotion and am now very happy, so it's not really a big deal.

I just don't like being treated this way.

side-saddled

31st Aug 2006, 06:24

Striker,

It seems I'm not alone.

I also applied in January and after four e-mails, a number of phone calls and a few internal enquiries by friends etc, I still haven't heard anything.

I have recently started a new job at a bigger unit (application process and interviews started after NATS application), however, I haven't bothered withdrawing my NATS application as I want to wait and see how long it takes for them to contact me.

As for being pleased I don't work for them, I'm not so sure.....
NATS HR is notorious for being run and staffed by monkeys (like anywhere) but once you feed them enough peanuts and get onto the coal face it's pretty good.